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Thread: The Saponi in Halifax County

  1. #1

    The Saponi in Halifax County

    Hi, I am from Halifax County Virginia. A town called "Clover".
    I am a Pleasant. My other family names include the following surnames: Coleman, Collins, Rice, Lacks and Pleasant. Does any of these names sound familiar?

    I know the The Haliwa-Saponi were in that area of Virginia. Also were the Cherokees and the Tuscaroras. Thanks for the feedback.

  2. #2
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    Welcome Nativelady,
    I'd be glad to see if I can help.
    Do you have any first names of your people, and any approximate dates?
    I have Collins and Rice lines and I think several other people on this forum do also.
    Bill Childs

  3. #3
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    Welcome Native lady,

    I too have COLLINS as one of my main lines of search. In 1747 Old Thomas Collins sold land in Halifax County along the pumunkey River. It is believed that old Thomas was at least part Saponi. He moved across the border into Granville County NC. You can read more about Old Thomas at the following link:

    http://bjdillon.topcities.com/old_th...latt_river.htm

    I might add that if you click on the search button at the top of the forum page it will bring you to the archive search engine for this site. Simply type in the names you are interested in and read what you have missed. There is a lot there about the surname Collins.

    Brenda

  4. #4
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    Thanks Brenda,
    The Thomas Gibson (alias Wilburn), noted in the article at that URL, is the half brother of one of my g g g g g g grandfathers, Richard Wilburn. There's another 1740's court doc listing both of them together - somewhere here in this pile.
    Bill

  5. #5
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    aka's

    Bill,

    I have mentioned it a number of times but will mention it again. Rumor in the family was that the Collins name was changed from Harman/Harmon to Collins. I have never found proof.

    Brenda

  6. #6

    Halifax County

    Thank you for your responses. I will call my grandmother tonight to see if I can get her to discuss the Collins line with me. She is 82 and knows quite a bit about who married who and who moved away. I will stay in touch. Take care for now.

  7. #7
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    Brenda,
    I took more than passing interest.
    Can't forget. I've got a Harmon COOK, b.1730s in Pa., whose dau Mary Cook, b.1757 Pa or Pittsylvania Co., Va. - at least marr'd in Pitts. Co in 1757, a Raisor/Razor.

    I've often wondered about what "Vardy" might have stood for and suspected without more than gut reaction, that it was Vardeman.

    My GG-Grandfather was Thomas Vardeman Webstser, b.1848 Grant Co., Ky, who 'murried thet injun ----- ' Louisa ROBERTS in Owen Co., Ky - the Robert were neighbors of the Greens left behind in Ky when the majority of them moved on to Missouri. Thomas's g-grandmother was Mary Vardeman, b.abt.1755 Fairfax Co., Va., although I think I have enough data to prove she was b. Caroline Co., next door to Louisa Co.

    Thomas's grandfather Bivin Webster marr'd 2) the widow Sarah Blackburn in Grant Co., Ky - "no children" says the Webster family tree. Well, I found 'ol' Bivin Webster on the 1870 Grant Co census with Sarah, "B.", f, and 3 young "B." children and nearly died laughing ! I wish I knew what her maiden name was !
    Bivin's father Daniel, who m'd Mary Vardeman, was a witness to the marriage of one of my WRIGHTs in Orange Co., who the entire older members of the family always said were Indian - although I know they were assimilated mixed-bloods.

    My late 1700s Halifax Collins & Jones people were intermarried a number of times and I've got them on both sides of line in Ky. These Jones's being heavily related to the Shelton/Benge-Hobbs/ Bunch/Wilburn people who are all mixed. Small world on this fourm, eh?
    Bill

  8. #8
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    Bill,
    Have you ever visited my website? From what I have read Vardy was short for Vardemon. I have also seen Meredith called Merdy Collins. For a long time I thought they were brothers as I found them in Wilkes Co. NC living on adjoining land. Years of research later I discovered that Vardy and Valentine were brothers. Valentine lived for a while in Russell Co. Va. then shortly after Meredith took the land grand on Shelby Creek in what was then Floyd Co. Ky Valentine moved his family to Floyd Co. also. Today I believe that they are all related but am more inclined to believe Vardy and Merdy were first cousins, grandsons of Old Thomas Collins. The puzzle is which one of Thomas' son was the father of my ggggrandfather. The other names thrown into the pile is David, George,Lewis ( along with Meredith were all in McDaniel's Fincastle co. militia) and the name Griffin Collins. Griffin signed the marriage bond for Meredith son John W. in Granger Co. Tn in 1821. This leads me to believe Griffin and Meredith were possibly brothers.

    My Mary COOK was born in 1815. to unknown parents. In 1833 she married James Spencer a widower of 11 children.

    I also have a JONES line that comes out of my WILLIAMS and SPENCER lines.

    A TAYLOR line that Crystal's (of this forum) children connects with.

    If the rumor on the Harmon/Harman name is true than it seems that the change would have to be before Meredith was born in 1760. Durning that time frame what would make a family change their names?
    1) The mother was an Indian with the name Harman and they decided to go along with the white settlers in the nameing tradition...........
    2) Somebody got into trouble with the law
    3) Somebody was a tory
    4) A military deserter


    BTW Edward Collins second wife was Elizabeth BLACKBURN

  9. #9
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    Smile

    No, I haven't visited your website. Would you give me the URL?
    (and maybe instructions on viewing it..... recent experience ! :-)

    Vardeman, Meredith, Griffin, Valentine, Lewis - all are surnames of colonial Virginia - got's to be clues.

    Reasons to change names : Every reason you listed and probably some we haven't thought of. I have a recent one (1832) and no one has any idea about that one either. He was a Meek with a Spencer mother and Childs grandmother and changed his name to Childs.... go figure. He continued living next door to his siblings and parents even after his name change. Doesn't make any sense to anyone . Court papers on the name change don't cite a reason for the change.

  10. #10
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    Appalachian Mountain Families

    Here is the link. It is very easy to move around. The surname files are all mine. Natural family lines, stepfather's lines and mom's Adopted family.
    Hope you enjoy.

    Brenda

    http://www.usgennet.org/usa/pa/count...istory-01.html

  11. #11
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    Coleman is found among the Person County Indians, who spill ver into Halifax.

  12. #12
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    I'm repeating Native Lady's post here so we can keep the context. See above for her other posts about her family.

    I have asked an 85 year old grandaunt about what she recalls. My greatgrandmother Mary Coleman was born about 1897-died about 1971 in Halifax County Virginia. She married Ben Lacks. He was a mulatto. Mary Colemans mothers name was Ellen Coleman. Ellens Coleman husband was John Coleman. Maiden name was Rice. All born in Halifax County. She stated, there was some indian in the family but she does not recall what was said regarding that. I will continue to research.

  13. #13
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    So we have the name Coleman, Collins, Rice, Lacks and Pleasant in this Halifax family. Collins is a very prominent name among Saponi descended families, now we hear that Coleman is found among the Person county families, who are acknowledged as Saponi descended, and Bill and my husband have Rice in their families, believed to be NDN. (In my husband's family the Rice's said they were Sioux, interestingly, since the Saponi were Siouan.) So, to answer your original question, do any of your names sound familiar, YES!

    Bill, do you have enough info to find anything on these Colemans?

    Native Lady, could you give Bill some more info on the other names, even if it's recent, so he (and anyone else with access to records) can start tracing backwards. If you don't want to post that info here, you can look at one of Bill's posts, at the bottom there's a button that says "email" that will let you send him a personal message.

  14. #14
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    Brenda says....Mary COOK was born in 1815. to unknown parents. In 1833 she married James Spencer a widower of 11 children.

    I also have a JONES line that comes out of my WILLIAMS and SPENCER lines.


    In 1954, a Jimmy Spencer started farming with my grandfather. To all appearances, he was a fullblood. I knew him well as we both aged though he never talked about his past, he taught me much about nature and farming with a loving touch. He was a kind and gentle man. He never left Moriah far and is buried at Bethany Baptist Church. His family still lives in this area. It is believed they came out of Va. Figure due to repetition of name, could be same family.

    1954 Person co NC
    Jimmy Spencer b c1920
    Lizzie (Lowrey?) Spencer b c1920
    children are Bill, Marie, Carolyn, and Peggy in descending order
    Peggy is from apr to nov older than me so she was born in 1951
    they would have been married around 1940 to 1945.

    If this Spencer can be traced back, maybe he will lead to your Spencers? He was without doubt NA.
    peace
    Ken

  15. #15
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    Ken, This is really interesting.

    Here is my Jones*Bell* Williams*Thomas* lines. Can you see a connection here? I don't have any information on Jeremiah Williams. Perhaps that would tell us something.


    1. HUGH2 WILLIAMS (JEREMIAH1) was born 1767 in Va., and died Aft. 1850 in Nicholas Co. WVa.. He married JANE BELL 1781 in Rockingham,Va.. She was born 1769 in Greenbrier Co. Va., and died Aft. 1850 in Nicholas Co. WVa..

    Children of HUGH WILLIAMS and JANE BELL are:
    i. ELIJAH3 WILLIAMS.
    ii. HUGH WILLIAMS.
    iii. JOHN WILLIAMS.
    iv. MARGARET WILLIAMS.
    v. MARY WILLIAMS.
    vi. SARAH WILLIAMS.
    vii. WILLIAM WILLIAMS, b. 1794, Greenbrier Co. Va..; d. 1869, Nicholas Co. WV.
    viii. CALEB WILLIAMS, b. 1796.
    ix. FRANCES WILLIAMS, b. 1798.
    x. JANE ANN WILLIAMS, b. 1804.
    xi. MELINDA WILLIAMS, b. 1809, Greenbrier Co. Va.; d. 1880, Nicholas Co. WV.
    xii. ANDREW WILLIAMS, b. 1813.
    xiii. ALEXANDER WILLIAMS, b. 1817.


    3. WILLIAM3 WILLIAMS (HUGH2, JEREMIAH1) was born 1794 in Greenbrier Co. Va.., and died 1869 in Nicholas Co. WV. He married (1) REBECCA HEATERS. He married (2) ELIZABETH JONES 1818 in Kanawha Co. WV, daughter of THOMAS JONES and LAVINAH THOMAS. She was born 1796 in Greenbrier Co. WV, and died 1882 in Nicholas Co. WV.

    Children of WILLIAM WILLIAMS and ELIZABETH JONES are:
    i. ROBERT4 WILLIAMS, b. 1818, Nicholas Co. WV; m. MIRIAM NEAL, 1839; b. 1820.
    ii. SENNETT WILLIAMS, b. 1820, Nicholas Co. WV; m. NELLIE NUTTER, 1841; b. 1823, Nicholas Co. WVa.; d. 1869.
    iii. HARRIETT WILLIAMS, b. 1822, Nicholas Co. WV; m. GEORGE N. GRAY; b. 1821, Nicholas Co. WVa..
    iv. REBECCA WILLIAMS, b. 1825, Nicholas Co. WV; d. 1857, Nicholas Co. WVa.; m. DAVID S. NUTTER; b. 1825.
    2. v. JOHN JONES WILLIAMS, b. 1826, Nicholas Co. WVa.; d. Bef. 1880, Nicholas Co. WVa..
    vi. ALEXANDER WILLIAMS, b. 1829, Nicholas Co. WV; d. 1891, Nicholas Co. WVa.; m. ALMERINDA O'DELL; b. 1833, Nicholas Co. WV.
    vii. WILLIAM T. WILLIAMS, b. 1832, Nicholas Co. WV; m. MARY SIZEMORE; b. 1838.
    viii. SAMUEL F. WILLIAMS, b. 1833, Nicholas Co. WV; m. ELIZABETH MARY BAILES, 1856; b. 1839.
    ix. SHELTON PARKER WILLIAMS, b. 1834, Nicholas Co. WV; m. (1) MARY JEFFERS; m. (2) SUSAN DUNBAR; m. (3) MARY O'DELL; m. (4) CATHERINE BARRETT.


    Generation No. 2

    2. JOHN JONES4 WILLIAMS (WILLIAM3, HUGH2, JEREMIAH1) was born 1826 in Nicholas Co. WVa., and died Bef. 1880 in Nicholas Co. WVa.. He married ELIZABETH JANE NUTTER June 13, 1847 in Nicholas Co. WV, daughter of HANNAH NUTTER. She was born 1830 in Va., and died in Nicholas Co WVa..

    Children of JOHN WILLIAMS and ELIZABETH NUTTER are:
    3. i. REBACCA ANN5 WILLIAMS, b. 1849, Nicholas Co. WVa..
    4. ii. MARIETTA WILLIAMS, b. May 04, 1851, Nicholas Co WVa.; d. April 01, 1917, Lewis Co. Wash..
    iii. SAMUEL WILLIAMS, b. 1853, Nicholas Co. WVa.; d. 1853, Nicholas Co. WVa..
    iv. JONATHAN V. WILLIAMS, b. 1854.
    5. v. MARTHA FRANCES WILLIAMS, b. August 1855, Nicholas Co WVa.; d. Aft. 1880.
    vi. GORDON B. WILLIAMS, b. 1859, nicholas Co. WVa..
    6. vii. THOMAS BLAKE WILLIAMS, b. August 27, 1862, Nicholas Co WVa.; d. 1944, Nicholas Co WVa.; Stepchild.
    viii. GEORGE WASHINGTON WILLIAMS, b. 1865, NIcholas Co WVa.; m. MARY VIRGINIA HEDGES, June 21, 1888, Nicholas Co. WV; b. 1870, Nicholas Co. WVa..
    7. ix. LADY JANE WILLIAMS, b. August 02, 1867, Nicholas Co WVa.; d. May 18, 1951, Nicholas Co WVa..
    x. LYDIA WILLIAMS, b. 1868.

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