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Thread: Tracing surnames with Saponi heritage

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma
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    1

    Post Tracing surnames with Saponi heritage

    Hello, I posted a query last year, and forgot how to get back to it, so this time is someone replys please email me at lomon@csweb.net
    I know I have to be saponi indian, my family compared to pictures of Saponi descendants share the same features.
    My Surnames are, Simon and Osborn Jeffreys, Hill, Norfleet, Rhodes, Walker,Chisholm, Ryves,Chism, Green, Thomas, Brown, Davis, Martin, Webb, Nordin, Fuller, Carroll, Daniel, Webb, Mathews, Emmons, Grubbs, Bennett, Mayes, Laymon or Lehmann, Reeves, Green, Ford, Maxey, Lewallen, Walden, Rhodes, Spear, Cotton, Blair,Harrell, etc.
    My Daniel surname originated from Bruinswick county, NC. Edward Daniel he migrated to Henry and Patrick and Grayson county, Va. He was around the Goins or Goings family a lot.
    The Goinstown Indians. Edward migrated to Grainger county, Tn. he died there in 1830, some say he was mulungeon. In which he intermarried into the saponi race. But we only know his wife's first name Anne.
    He was born about 1775 t0 1776, Edward had a sister named Esther who married Philemon Lacy, Most of Edward Daniel's children married in to the Henry Mayes and Pheobe Harrell Family.
    How would I go about finding if they were a part of the Haliwa Saponi indian tribe?
    Please email me at lomon@csweb.net I am not to good with the message board ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Clarksville, VA
    Posts
    3,348

    Post

    A lot of your names appear on the Southeastern American Indian Family Surnames list

    Jeffries: Saponi, Catawba
    Walker: Creek, Saponi
    Greene: no tribe specified
    Thomas: Tuscarora
    Brown: Catawba, Meherrin, Saponi
    Martin: Meherrin, Saponi
    Norton: Saponi
    Daniels: Mattaponi
    Mathews: Saponi
    Bennett: Chickahominy
    Walton: Saponi
    Spears: no tribe specified
    Daniels: Machupunga

    If you're family has been living outside of Halifax or Warren counties NC for a good while it may not be possible to get onto their rolls. I don't know their criteria. I also don't know the procedure for applying. I imagine they want to see all your genealogy work done up just so.

    If they do have requirements regarding residence within those counties, don't take it personally. As I understand it, a tribe going for recognition needs to have that physical integrity. There are those who advise that allowing in members from families that migrated away will mean kissing one's bid for recognition goodbye. I've seen that create a lot of hard feelings, but that's the way it is.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    40

    surnames

    Hi, I share a number of the same names that you mention. I have Martin, Lehman/Lemmon, Lewellyn, Ford, Chisholm/Chisum, Davis.

    Kathleen Rogalla

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    28

    Corn/Davis

    Hi Kathleen - I have several Corn's marrying Davis' in my line throughout the 1800's. My Davis' were primarily from KY and the Corn's from North GA although both seem to have come from SW NC originally. Does this fit with any of your lines?

    John Corn

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    40
    Hi John. I have 2 Davis lines and know almost nothing about either of them. I have a Samuel Barker Davis born ca 1757 who married Rebecca Bussey. Samuel's parents were Joseph Davis and Mary Barker. That is everything I know about that davis line.
    Then I have a Levi Davis born ca 1800 in Moore Co.,NC who married Mary Rudyard. Levi's parents were Robert Davis (from Wales?) and Cibby unknown.
    Mary Rudyard's father was Isaiah Rudyard, a sea captain. His wife is unknown. Anybody have Rudyard's?

    Sorry I can't help.

    Kathleen
    pkr1@msn.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Born and raised in Mecklenburg Co., VA but now reside in Northern, VA
    Posts
    399

    Recognition

    Quote Originally Posted by Linda
    A lot of your names appear on the Southeastern American Indian Family Surnames list

    Jeffries: Saponi, Catawba
    Walker: Creek, Saponi
    Greene: no tribe specified
    Thomas: Tuscarora
    Brown: Catawba, Meherrin, Saponi
    Martin: Meherrin, Saponi
    Norton: Saponi
    Daniels: Mattaponi
    Mathews: Saponi
    Bennett: Chickahominy
    Walton: Saponi
    Spears: no tribe specified
    Daniels: Machupunga

    If you're family has been living outside of Halifax or Warren counties NC for a good while it may not be possible to get onto their rolls. I don't know their criteria. I also don't know the procedure for applying. I imagine they want to see all your genealogy work done up just so.

    If they do have requirements regarding residence within those counties, don't take it personally. As I understand it, a tribe going for recognition needs to have that physical integrity. There are those who advise that allowing in members from families that migrated away will mean kissing one's bid for recognition goodbye. I've seen that create a lot of hard feelings, but that's the way it is.

    Good Afternoon Linda,

    I have to say that I am learning how some things work in the Native American culture. Sadly, if someone wants to belong to a particular tribe, he or she may be forced to deny their "other" connections. A person will probably have to "choose" which race/culture they will identify with. Also, for someone like me, I no longer live in Mecklenburg Co., VA so I probably will never be "officially recognized" by the state and/or federal government. But, I've accepted that because regardless, I am who I am

    Erica
    God's Child----Fearfully and Wonderfully Made

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Born and raised in Mecklenburg Co., VA but now reside in Northern, VA
    Posts
    399

    Recognition

    Quote Originally Posted by Linda
    If you're family has been living outside of Halifax or Warren counties NC for a good while it may not be possible to get onto their rolls. I don't know their criteria. I also don't know the procedure for applying. I imagine they want to see all your genealogy work done up just so.

    If they do have requirements regarding residence within those counties, don't take it personally. As I understand it, a tribe going for recognition needs to have that physical integrity. There are those who advise that allowing in members from families that migrated away will mean kissing one's bid for recognition goodbye. I've seen that create a lot of hard feelings, but that's the way it is.
    Good Afternoon Linda,

    I have to say that I am learning how some things work in the Native American culture. Sadly, if someone wants to belong to a particular tribe, he or she may be forced to deny their "other" connections. A person will probably have to "choose" which race/culture they will identify with. Also, for someone like me, I no longer live in Mecklenburg Co., VA so I probably will never be "officially recognized" by the state and/or federal government But, I've accepted that because regardless, I am who I am

    Erica
    God's Child----Fearfully and Wonderfully Made

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    60
    Linda,


    Where do I find out about my SE NA family Surnames and what they possibly were?

    Family names are:

    Collins, Goins,Pinson,Clay,Damron, Martin and Napier

    They were from VA/W.VA/NC...then spread over into TN and KY.......from there we are scattered to the 4 winds.

    Thanks for your time,
    Debi

    PS.
    My new e-mail address is:
    dforfa1@comcast.net
    none

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    2,315
    Debi,
    Please post specific names and dates for these specific people.
    Bill

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Clarksville, VA
    Posts
    3,348
    Bill, she has some of these specifics posted here: http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2041

    Debi, I know you've been reading this forum for awhile, so maybe you've gleaned that Goins is a name that comes up all the time, with many researchers feeling there's a Saponi tie. Collins is another major name, which is a documented Saponi name. I've never been sure how many people there are who can trace directly to those documented people, or if there are just very strong circumstantials tying to them, but many people are convinced their Collins family has Saponi roots. I have a friend with the Pinson line in WV who knows of Indian roots. Clay is a strong name in old Indian families in Mecklenburg, VA, in old Saponi haunts. The other three names I'm not familiar with.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    60

    Saponi Names

    Linda,
    Thank you for your reply.
    I have posted many names, dates and marriages and am still trying to colate and absorb it all. With so many NA stories in the families we're surely going to "bump" into the truth sooner or later.
    I did contact someone recently about the Damron family. She has many of them on the Cherokee rolls. I have yet to hear from her though.



    Blessings to you,

    Debi
    none

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Posts
    163
    Debi,
    For your Araminta Clay, I found no less than 4 with different parents within a 10 year span between 1850-60, and listings for Floyd Co. KY and Wayne Co. WV. I'm directly connected to the Clays of Wayne, WV and Floyd KY. The two counties being geographically close, the Clay family can be found frequently in either county. I also have some Napiers from the same area connected to my Copleys (also connected to the Clays). I assume your Araminta's parents were Robert Clay b. about 1820 in NC, and Sarah Margaret Setser b. about 1825 Floyd Co. KY. Araminta married James Franklin Pinion b. Feb 1847, Floyd Co. KY.
    James and Araminta's children are;
    1. Robert E. Lee Pinion b. July 1877 Floyd Co. KY
    2. Cordelia Pinion b. June 1882 Floyd Co. KY
    3. Elijah Pinion b. Sept. 1884 Floyd Co. KY
    4. Sara B. Pinion b. Oct. 1887 Floyd Co. KY
    5. Ealey D. Pinion b. Jan. 1890 Floyd Co. KY
    6. Hendreson Pinion b. Aug. 1893 Floyd Co. KY
    7. Lulie A. Pinion b. Feb. 1896 Floyd Co. KY
    8. Birdie Pinion b. Abt 1900 Floyd Co. Ky

    This info is from RootsWeb. I haven't found much on Robert Clay but being from the Floyd Co. area, I'm sure he's connected to my Clay line. I have not looked at any census data yet for further info. That's more Bill's "area of expertise". I just thought I'd throw this info out for you (sorry Bill, wasn't trying to "steal your thunder"! As always, "You're the man!") Good Luck!

    Jim

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    60

    CLAY family

    Jim,

    Thank you for your response......

    This is what I have on the Clay family so far.......

    AND as always...Bill is still "the man"..


    Descendants of Jordan Clay

    1 Jordan Clay b: Abt. 1777 Amelia/Halifax Co.VA d: Abt. 1856 Wayne Co WV
    .. +Mary Cartier b: 1779 Canada d: 1856 Wayne Co WV m: 13 May 1796 in Halifax Co.,VA
    ...... 2 Lucy Clay b: Abt. 1797
    ...... 2 Nancy Clay b: Abt. 1798
    ...... 2 Robert Clay b: Abt. 1799 Patrick or Halifax co. Virginia d: Aft. 1885 Johns Creek,Floyd co. Kentucky
    ........... +Sarah H. Setzer b: 1820 North Carolina d: 1880 Floyd Co.KY m: 06 Sep 1845 in Floyd Co.,KY
    ............... 3 Jane Margarette Clay b: 1846 Floyd Co. KY d: 24 Mar 1878
    ................... +John M. Adams b: 22 Jul 1867
    ............... 3 Julianne Clay b: 1849 Floyd Co. KY
    ............... 3 Araminta Ethel Clay b: 20 Jul 1855 Floyd Co.KY d: 22 Dec 1945 Floyd Co.KY
    ................... +James Franklin Pinion b: 15 May 1844 Washington Co.. VA, Roanoke. area d: Jan 1935 Floyd Co.KY m: 13 Jan 1874 in Floyd Co.,KY
    ....................... 4 Robert Lee Pinion b: Jul 1877 d: 30 Jan 1923
    ............................ +Amma Foley m: 1901
    ....................... 4 Corda Florence Pinion b: Jun 1882
    ............................ +James Garfield Harless
    ....................... 4 Henderson "Hence" Oliver Pinion b: Aug 1893 d: 1935
    ............................ +Lizzie Setser
    ....................... 4 Malcolm Elijah Pinion b: 24 Sep 1883 Kentucky d: 10 Dec 1971 Peebles ,Ohio
    ............................ +Emily " Emma" Ellen Collins b: 17 Jun 1890 Floyd Co.KY d: 27 Apr 1983 Peebles ,Ohio m: 05 May 1908 in Kentucky
    ....................... 4 Lora Bell Pinion b: Oct 1887 d: Florida
    ............................ +George Cornett m: 23 Feb 1905
    ....................... 4 Saley D. Pinion b: Jan 1890
    ............................ +Charles Picklesimer
    ....................... 4 Louise "Lula" Pinion b: Feb 1896
    ............................ +Doc Harless
    ....................... 4 Bertha "Birdie" Pinion b: Sep 1900 Tram ,Kentucky d: 02 Aug 1988 Clyde, Ohio
    ............................ +Berle Thompson
    ............... 3 Jefferson D. Clay b: Apr 1861 Floyd Co. KY d: 05 Jun 1912
    ............... 3 [1] Polly Clay b: Mar 1863 Floyd Co. KY d: 1952
    ................... +George Robinette
    ............... *2nd Husband of [1] Polly Clay:
    ................... +Daniel K. Wireman Sr.
    ............... 3 John Clay b: 29 Feb 1868 Floyd Co. KY
    ................... +Martha Hite
    ............... 3 Flemming Clay b: 28 Apr 1859 Floyd Co. KY d: 20 Sep 1859
    ...... 2 John Clay b: Abt. 1800 Patrick or Halifax Co.VA
    ...... 2 James Clay b: Abt. 1804 Halifax Co.VA
    ...... 2 Caleb Clay b: Bet. 1804 - 1805 Halifax Co.VA
    ...... 2 Jane "Jenny" Clay b: Abt. 1805
    ...... 2 Peter Clay b: 1807 Patrick Co. VA
    ...... 2 Sarah "Sally" Clay b: Abt. 1812 Patrick Co. VA
    ...... 2 Mary "Polly" Clay b: Abt. 1815 Patrick Co. VA
    ...... 2 Elizabeth Clay b: Abt. 1817 Patrick Co. VA
    ...... 2 Matthew Clay b: 1820 Floyd Co. KY
    none

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Posts
    163
    Debi,
    Well hello cousin. I descend through Caleb Clay b. 1804 s/o Jordan Clay and Robert's brother. We'll have to compare notes sometime on the Clay family.

    Jim

  15. #15
    How does one find the Southeastern American Indian Family Surnames list?

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