Collins and Gibsons in Virginia

[cthorpeky]

I am Cleland Thorpe from Corbin Ky. My father was raised in Lee County Virginia. His ancestors were Collins and Gibson from Hawkins County and Hancock County Tennessee. They were listed in the census as FPC. (free people of color) These ancestors migrated from Northern Virginia, around Louisa County. We were told when we were kids that we were part Indian. We were called that by other kids. My great-great uncle told his children that he was part Indian but nev er told them what Tribe. My father said they were sometimes refered to as "Black Dutch".
I need help finding my Native American roots. I believe they were maybe Saponi, Powhatan, or Pawmunkey because of the migration pattern.
Could anyone direct me to the correct agency, group or person who can help me.
Thanks in advance.
Cleland Thorpe

[sammarroq]

welcome Cleland, there are many here who are gifted researchers.

[cthorpeky]

Thank you for your post. I am presently in Weslaco Texas so I don't have all my documentation. My ancestors were known as Melungeons. I'm sure they were mixed with the Native Americans from northern Virginia. By the way, we are in a Retirement village here in Texas and we have lots of neighbors down here that are from Minnasota
Cleland

[Bill Childs]

Hi Cleland,
What are the names of your Grandparents and about when were they born?
Bill

[cthorpeky]

Thank you Bill for your interest.
My father was born in Lee County Virginia in 1898. His mother was Eliza Jane Clementine Gibson. She was born in Hancock Co. Tennessee in 1867. Her father was Alfred Palmer Gibson from Tennessee. His dad was Charles Gibson born in Louisa County Virginia.
Clementine's mother was Icy Collins born in 1842 in Hawkins County Tennessee. Icy's mom and dad were Martin and Elizabeth Collins who migrated to Hawkins County Tenn from Nothern Virginia. They were listed in the 1830 census as FPC (Free people of Color) Martin's mom and dad were James and Lexy Collins.
I'm having to take a lot of this out of my head. All my documentation is back in Ky and I'm in Texas for about 4 or 5 more months.
If you know anything about this group of people and what Tribe they came from, I would geatly appreciate hearing from you.
Cleland

[sammarroq]

Thank you for your post. I am presently in Weslaco Texas so I don't have all my documentation. My ancestors were known as Melungeons. I'm sure they were mixed with the Native Americans from northern Virginia. By the way, we are in a Retirement village here in Texas and we have lots of neighbors down here that are from Minnasota
Cleland

I also have Gibson's in my line and they were mixed blood. These Gibson's moved around a lot from VA. to NC. to KY and back to VA.

I have a few friends who are retired who winter in Texas, being this is Minnesota they have already left for warmer climate. I happen to love the seasons, not 40 below, however, it ususually doesn't last long. I hope Bill can help you out.

Shirley

[cthorpeky]

Shirley,
Good to hear from you. A lot of the Gibsons in Ky came from Tennessee. My Gibsons and the ones in Ky are pretty dark but are pretty and handsome.
Who knows, we may be long lost cousins.
Cleland

[sammarroq]

I suspect that we are connected somewhere along the line, it would be interesting to find out where. My family is also dark, sharp featured, and yes, my father is very hansome. He is dark and has deep set dark eyes, but I got my mom's gypsy green eye's (her father was from romania). Good to have you with us, hope we can make a connection.

Shirley

[Tom]

Hey Cleland, welcome to SAponi Town, this is the place that you need to be if you are researching the Collins Bibson people, I have them (my Cousin Barb "Dove Lady" aswell), the Collins family must be a huge clan and very old, welcome!

[cthorpeky]

Thank you Tom for your warm welcome. You are right. The Collins and Gibson are big clans. They are also hard to trace. Big brick walls when trying to research these folks.
Cleland

[tarcarion]

Cleleand,
Welcome and may I suggest you get a copy of Pat Spurlock Elder's book,
"Melungeons; Examining an Appalachian Legend". Here's the link.

http://www.continuitypress.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi

Jim

[cthorpeky]

Thank you for recommending Pat Spurlock Elder's book. I have a copy of that book that she autographed for me. I consider Pat a good friend of mine. I have known her for years. I see where you mentioned Jack Goins. I was just on the phone with him. I can say this about both of these writers, they have documented everything they wrote about. Jack wrote and also speaks about my GGG-Grandfather, Charles Gibson. Ole Charles was kicked out of the Stony Creek Church so many times for drinking, cussing, gambling, fighting, etc that they must of had a special register for him. Charles Gibson was listed as "FPC" free person of color in the Hawkins Co. census. He was also a Revolutionary War veteran. His application for a pension states he was from Louisa Co. Virginia. I really think he was somehow associated with one of the Native American Clans/tribes from the Louisa Co. area. I sure could use a lot of help proving my Collins and Gibsons Native American connections.
Cleland L. Thorper

[BlondeyeLaurie]

Cleland...could you please give me a wee bit more info on which Charlie is in your line? Dates? Spouse? Etc...the reason I ask is that I currently have numerous Charlie/Charles Gibson's in my tree....I DO have quite a bit of info on your Collins and Gibsons line but will reserve posting it all until I know which Charlie you connect with....I thank you in advance....I'm off to a soccer tourny this am...will get back and post what I have for your line this afternoon. Blessings until then~~~~Laurie
P.S.....yep, he's a distant cousin of ours! *wink* Welcome cuzz!

[cthorpeky]

BlondeyeLaurie,
I am away from my permanent home which is Corbin Ky. We spend the winters in Weslaco Texas. Un fortunately I do not have my research files with me so I can only tell you what I have stored in my head. (Muddy water LOL) Charles Gibson was married to Avy Gibson. Their son was Alfred Palmer Gibson and he was married to Icy Collins, daughter of Martin and Elizabeth Collins. Charles filed his Revolutionary War Pension application in Hawkins Co. Tennessee. He is found in the Stoney Creek Church minutes in the early 1800's. He was also listed in the Hawkins Co. census as a "FPC", free person of color. He was considered to be one of the original settlers in Melungeon county at Newman's Ridge. Some people refered to these folks as Greasy Rock Indians. Can't tell you much more. I'd say we are probably cousins back there somewhere. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cleland

[BlondeyeLaurie]

Howdy Cleland...everyone!*smiles* Sorry for the delay in posting a reply today....soccer tourny and VA sis and family visit and family get-together sees me just now here at *ugh* midnite. At any rate...I have tried my best to discern how your Charles connects specifically...and according to what Jack Goins indicated on his melungeon link, he was the son of "Old Thomas" Gibson and his wife Mary Frances Allen...but try as I might...I just cannot imagine him being born when their children were (1714-1723 time frame) and still yet being a Revolutionary soldier who filed a pension in 1839!?! Link to Jack's "Examining Melungeon History & Genealogy": http://www.jgoins.com/emhistory.htm
That said....I have done some additional digging on Charles' line and descendants and am almost convinced that Charles' wife was Ava, apparently also called Avy nee Gibson, who was born in abt 1820 VA, who was the d/o: Bryson Gibson & Frances "Fannie" nee Green. Upon looking at who lived where and next door or in very close proximity to one another it seems very "fitting" as such. This line from Bryson & Fannie down is my direct maternal line...they being my 5th great grandparents. Charles and Avy's son Alfred Palmer Gibson shows in 1860 in Hancock Co, TN with another daughter whose name looked tome to be perhaps Mayah A., she being an infant. I already had Alfred and his wife in my tree....just had no clue who Alfred's father was. Alfred's wife Icy , b: 1842 Hawkins Co, TN was teh d/o: Martin & Elizabeth Collins...her sister Orpha MD Silas Collins in abt 1846 and had CH: Semion, Zelphy/Zilpha, Isaac, Mary Elizabeth, Asa, Wheeler, Frances, Minty, Lewis (Rev.) , & Burton. Silas was the s/o: Solomon Dickinson Collins & Virginia Jane "Jinsey" nee Goins who had CH: Mahala "Big Haley", Franklin, Silas, Bailey, Enoch "Ink", Thalamos "Thomas" , Elizabeth "Betty" , Solomon , Richard, Aletha, Millia Ann , Amelia Ann & Sarah.
From the perspective of dates...if Albert was born in 1833 as indicated by census records..and his father was born between 1805-1810 and if Charles wife Avy was AKA Ava, d/o Bryson and Fannie...then you most certainly have a sure-fire Native American connection whereas Ava is concerned....I have seen some and heard or seen transcriptions of some of Ava's sibling's Eastern Cherokee Applications. And too, based on historical and genealogical research and documentation of the Hancock and Hawkins County, TN residents of the time, it is a safe bet that Charles' lineage also descends from Native American and/or mixed roots. The "jury" is still out on which tribal affiliation is fitting and exact....some have been steadfast at tossing Cherokee as the dominant group but Saponi and Monacan and others have also been summised/suspected. We may simply never truly know with exactitude. I think that many of our elders used the term Cherokee as an analogous term, when they meant to simply say: Native American. In the 1850 Hancock Co, TN census, it is just slathered with primary surnames of Collins, Gibson/Gipson and Mullins....just one HH after another.
OK....I actually dozed off and went to bed mid-post...I need a Genealogogy Anonymous group! More today....when I wake up fully. Take care and blessings~~~~Laurie