Sound Familiar to Anyone?

[RosalindGash]

I'm researching my family tree. I haven't been able to locate very much information on my great-grandmother. I'm hoping that somebody will recognize some of the information I'm going to give, and contact me. This is all I know:

Her name was Myrtle Bessie. She was born October 29, 1896 and died in February 1984 in Greenville, SC. I have no maiden name for her. I do not know where she was originally from.

She was married twice. Her first marriage was to my great-grandfather, Rush Griffin. He was from Greenville, SC and worked for the railroad. He was Black, so most likely he was a Pullman Porter or worked in the engine room, or something like that. Family stories say that Rush met her while working for the railroad, and one day he brought her back to Greenville with him. They had several children. Her second marriage was to a man by the last name of Fisher. They ended up divorcing, and had no children.

Sometime in the early to mid-1960s, Myrtle's father placed a newspaper advertisement searching for her. They had been out of touch, and all he knew was that she was in Greenville. The contact information provided was in Durham, NC. Nobody seems to know where Myrtle came from or anything about her family. So, it's possible that she was from Durham, but I have no way to make sure.

I knew Myrtle before she died, but she didn't know me, as she was senile in her old age. I was a young teen when I met her not long before she died, but I remember how she looked. She looked like a little white lady with long, long silver hair.

When I asked if she was white, I was told no. Myrtle had always said that she was Blackfoot. But, as far as I know she never gave any other information, because nothing else about her background is known. Because her father gave Durham, NC as a contact location, it is possible that she is from there. I also found out through the website The Other Blackfoot, that the translation of the name Saponi means blackfoot, and that the Saponi are also from around the Durham, NC area.

The website The Other Blackfoot Indians led me to this website. I'm hoping someone has read or heard a story about a man finding his long-lost daughter through a newspaper ad. If anyone has any information, please send me a private message or email through this website. Or post it.

Much thanks in advance.

[Bill Childs]

Welcome, Rosalind,
Do I understand that Myrtle's father is the one who placed the newspaper ad looking for her? What's her father's name?
Bill

[RosalindGash]

Thank you for responding, Bill. Yes, Myrtle's father is the one who placed the ad in the Greenville, SC newspaper (that paper is now defunct) from Durham, NC.

I don't have any idea what his name was, and neither does anyone else. I'm going to send off for a copy of Myrtle's social security card application. Parent's names have to be supplied on them, so it's a lead.

Any clues about this story?

Thanks.

[Linda]

I take it you haven't tracked down that ad yet. I wonder if that would be feasible.

[RosalindGash]

Hi Linda,

It'd be a real longshot to track the ad. Greenville had 2 newspapers back then, and my aunt doesn't remember which one it was in, or what the date was.

All she remembers is that she was "around" 25 years old and it was summertime. I'd have to check the microfilm for both papers for May thru August for a span of years from my aunt's age of 23-26. Daunting task.

[Bill Childs]

Not much help on Myrtle's maiden name but I found Rush Griffin's family in Cross Hill Township, Laurens Co., SC, and ran it back to 1870.
Rush's mother was Rachel Cannon, b.abt.1870.
In 1900, Rachel Cannon Griffin was already widowed or divorced, so we have another loose end regarding Mr. Griffin's first name.
Rachel's parents were Mercer "Mess" Cannon, b.abt.Feb 1817 SC (Ga. on one census), and Ann (Unknown), b.abt.1840 SC,

It's unclear from the census records how many times Mercer was married:
On 1900 census, Mercer's wife is Fannie, b.Sept 1834.
In 1870, Mercer's wife Ann is 30 yrs old and daughter Peggy is 20, so either Ann is Fannie and was born 1834 as opposed to 1840, or there was a still earlier, 1st wife, than Ann. Mercer was widowed and living with Rush Griffen and his mother Rachel on the 1910 census in Laurens Co, Cross Hill Twp.

Rush (b.Oct 1899 SC) & Myrtle (b.abt.1901 SC) were married about 1915. Their children were:
Roy, b.1916. (3 yrs & 3 months old on census dated 5 Jan 1920)
Fannie M., b.1918. (1 yr & 11 months old on same census)
Lois, b.1919. (2 months old, same census)
Virginia, b.abt.1922. (Poss. twin)
Birnell, b.abt.1922 (Poss. twin)(Birnell is a female)
Ethel, b.1926 (3 yrs & 7 months old on census dated 10 Apr 1930)

In 1920, Rush Griffin was working as a laborer in a "Street Car Barn" in Greenville. Street Cars were also referred to as "Street Railways" so I'd think that's where the railroad story originates. A Street Car "Barn" is either a terminal, a "Turn-about" or a maintenance facility where the Cars were returned to at night. Same occupation in 1930.

Myrtle is shown as born in S.C. on the 1920 & 1930 census.
While that could be incorrect, it's the only other lead we have besides the Durham, NC story that may be impossible to confirm by finding the newspaper ad.
So,..... In 1910, Rush Griffin was living in Laurens Co. Paraphrasing - "He worked on the Railroad and brought her back with him" - Which could mean Rush was working in the Street Car Barn in Greenville in 1915, when he met and married Myrtle and "brought her back" to Laurens Co to meet the family. I'd look for her in Greenville first.
Anyway, the easiest way to find her is the Soc.Sec card info which you're going for. If you find her maiden name and want some help with census lookups on her parents, let me know.
Bill

[RosalindGash]

Bill,

Oh my gosh! Wow! How'd you do that?! LOL

What you wrote makes a whole lot of sense, and ties everything together nicely. Greenville was a MAJOR textile center way back when, and there was a train depot, especially for the textiles, where they would be brought into Greenville and unloaded. Greenville also had a passenger train depot. So that makes much sense.

Cross Hill is about 45 minutes away from Greenville, and today it's STILL so small that if you blink when you get there, you're already out of the town, LOL.

Fannie, b. 1918, is my grandmother (father's mom). She died in 1985 of lung cancer, and my dad died of it in early 2000. Aunt Ethel is still alive here in Greenville. Aunt Birnie (Birnell) lives in New Jersey and I think Aunt Virginia lives there too. Lois and Roy are dead, I think, because I don't remember ever meeting them at my grandmother's funeral, and they weren't at my dad's. I only met this side of my family when I was 12, and had the most exposure to my grandmother.

I'm going to send off for Myrtle's social security card application for more info. Also, marriage records are available from the probate office in the county where the marriage took place ($8), and since that was right here in Greenville, it shouldn't be hard to get it...unless it's been lost or something. If they have it, it'll give me her maiden name.

Thank you so much for your help! When I track down Myrtle's maiden name, I'll post it. Is there any way possible you'd be able to look up my other grandparent's names for me? I'd pay :-)

[Bill Childs]

Sure I'll look them up. Who were the other set of grandparents?
(You've already paid-up)
Bill

[RosalindGash]

Hi Bill,

I'm going to have to send you a fantastic thank-you card! I'm serious! :D

My maternal grandfather was Samuel Gash, from Brevard, NC, which is in Transylvania County. He is supposed to be at least half Indian. When I was younger, I assumed Cherokee, because that's the area the Cherokee originated in...but that was before I knew about the other smaller tribes. Edited to say that my aunt has a b/w pic of my grandfather, and that he also served in the Navy during WW2 as a cook.

My maternal grandmother was Beatrice Vance King Gash from (it's said) Seneca, SC, which is in Oconee County. What I know about my grandmother is that her maiden name was Vance, but her mom remarried somebody named Bud King.

She had two brothers and two sisters: Mildred, Daisy, Thomas, and Roschil. I just found out Roschil's name not too long ago. All my aunt (Beatrice's oldest daughter...my mom, one of Beatrice's younger daughters, died in 1984) knew was that there was a brother who ran off and "joined the circus", and was never heard from again. My mother did tell me, when I was about 11-12 years old (she died when I was 13), that Beatrice told her that her mother or grandmother told her (Beatrice) that her (Beatrice's mother/grandmother) grandmother or great-grandmother was from Nigeria. Or something close to that.

That would make sense, because a lot of Nigerians, among other Africans, were brought into Charleston, and their descendents are the Gullah (or Geechee) from the Sea Islands of SC.

Nobody else knows anything about that, and unfortunately, because some people don't know something to be true for themselves, they doubt it's true at all. But, I know what my mother told me.

From what I was able to gather, he didn't leave until after his mother remarried, so I'm guessing he didn't get along with Bud King, because he was only 16 then, but I'm probably wrong, as that age was might have been considered adult back then. Roschil's last name was Vance, but I haven't been able to find anything about him at all. He was, and is, truly lost to the family.

That's all I've been able to find out. Thanks for your help.

[Bill Childs]

Rosalind,
This will help with some dates but I wasn't able to do more than confirm what you already knew........

1930 Greenville Co., SC census - ED 28 Greenville, 1st Ward, 10 April; p.154A; lived at 22B Parker St; Rented for $10 /month: at 325, 426:
KING, Bud; Ditcher - City Paving; 40; NC, NC, NC.
(ditto), Willie; wife; 34, SC, SC, SC.
VANCE, Thomas V.; son; 15; SC, SC, SC.
(ditto), Mildred; dau; 14; SC, SC, SC.
(ditto), Beatrace; dau; 13; SC, SC, SC.
(ditto), Daisy; dau; 10; SC, SC, SC.

Additional info from the above census:
Bud was 1st married at age 19. He was born in NC. Both his father and mother were born in NC.
Willie was 1st married at age 15. She was born in NC as were both of her parents.
..................................................

1920 Pickens Co., SC census - ED159 Central Twp, Town of Central; 30 January; p.27B; at 453, 453:
VANCE, Willie; farmer; female, 25, Married; SC, SC, SC.
(ditto), Roschil; son; 11; SC, SC, SC.
(ditto), Thomas; son; 6; SC, SC, SC.
(ditto), Milly; dau; 5; SC, SC, SC.
(ditto), Beatrace; dau; 3 yrs +2 months; SC, SC, SC.
(ditto); Daisy H.; dau; 2 months; SC, SC, SC.

I didn't find Roschil Vance in 1930 but that's not a surprise if he stayed with the circus. Bud King was not found in 1920 or earlier, nor did I find Willie Vance in 1910.
The latest census records available are for 1930 so you'll have to go the Soc.Sec. card route for Willie Vance.

[RosalindGash]

Thanks, Bill!

At least I know that I didn't overlook anything on this one, LOL. One thing I haven't been able to find out, yet is who Willie was married to before marrying Bud King.

I'm going to call my cousin (her mother is Mildred's daughter) and see what she knows, or what she can find from her mom. Actually, I might just call her mom, myself. I think I was supposed to call and say hi a while ago, anyway. Oops. :o

[Bill Childs]

Rosalind,
I think this must be your Samuel Gash. Due to the unavailability of additional records, I can't verify in an absolute fashion that it's him, but this one is the only Samuel Gash in Transylvania Co., NC who is of an age to marry Beatrice, b.abt.1917.

While race recorded on census records is pretty subjective, there are always questions when one census taker thinks someone is one race and the next one thinks the same person is some other race. We have seen this often with mixed race people, Ndn and others. Some of these people's race change over time so I'll list that.

1920 Transylvania Co., NC census - ED185 Brevard Twp.,
at 34, 35, are Samuel's grandmother and uncles (everyone and their parents were born in NC. (all listed as Black)
GASH, Harriet E.; Head; 64; Widowed.
(ditto), Samp. T.; son; 25; Laborer - Acid Plant.
(ditto), Buster; son; 21; Laborer - Acid Plant.
(ditto), Prichard; son; 19; Laborer - Acid Plant.

.... ("Samp. T." is same as 1910's "Thomas S." and "Prichard" is same as 1910's "Jethro P.")

Next Door at 35, 36, is Samuel and his parents:
GASH, Mose; Head; m, B, 29; marr'd; Laborer - Saw Mill.
(ditto), Gertrude; wife; f, MU; 24; marr'd.
(ditto), Euriah; son; m, MU; 6.
(ditto), Ginnie V.; dau; f, MU; 4 yrs 6 months old.
(ditto), SAMUEL; son; m, MU; 3 yrs 7 months old.****

1910 Transylvania Co., NC census - ED155 Brevard Twp,
at 54, 54: (all were listed as Black)
Moses's mother and siblings:
GASH, Harriet; Head; 48, widowed; had 10 children, 10 living.
(ditto), MOSES; son; 19. ("Moses" of 1920)****
(ditto), Marshal; son; 18.
(ditto), Thomas S.; son; 16.
(ditto), Berta O.; dau; 15.
(ditto), Buster; son; 13.
(ditto), Jethro P.; son; 11.

1900 Transylvania Co., NC census - ED111 No. Brevard Twp,
at 112, 113: (all children listed Black) Race indicated for Millard looks like it was originally written as "W" and had "B" written over it. Moses's parents and siblings:
GASH, Millard; farm laborer; W?, m, Feb 1850; 50; marr'd 20 yrs.
(ditto), Harriett; wife; B, f, Dec 1843; 56; m'd 20 yrs.
(ditto), Maggie; dau; July 1881; 18.
(ditto), Corra; dau; Jun 1883; 16.
(ditto), Mary; dau; Feb 1884; 16.
(ditto), Kate; dau; July 1887; 12.
(ditto), MOSE; son; Jan 1891; 9. ("Moses")
(ditto), Marshall; son; Oct 1892; 7.
(ditto), Sam; son; Jan 1894; 6. ("Thomas Sampson")
(ditto), Burta; dau; Nov 1896; 3.
(ditto), Buster; son; Feb 1899; 1.

1880 Transylvania Co, NC - ED 186 Davidson River Twp,
at 155, 163: (recorded ages are really off, but these are Moses's parents.)
GASH, Millard F.; 22, laborer.
(ditto), Harriet; 20, wife.

Next door is Millard's twin brother Andrew J. L. Gash. On the other side of Millard is a (white) GASH family who has a Charles PATTON living with them and the next door is a (Black) PATTON family from Virginia & NC with one parent from SC who in a couple of earlier census lived next door to PANTHER & PATTON families I suspect are Ndn and John GASH, b.abt.1778 Virginia with his wife b.abt.1780 Tenn. who may be also.

1870 Transylvania Co., NC census; Boyd Twp; P.O.: Claytonsville, NC; at 14, 14: the race of all children was changed from "W" to "B" by over writing it. Millard's mother and siblings:
GASH, Mariah; 45, f, B, $0, $0, NC.
(ditto), Millard F.; 14, m, B. NC.
(ditto), And. Jonel (?); 14, m, B, NC. ("And." is clearly legible)
(ditto), Ann; 4; f, B, NC.

Didn't find any of these people in 1860, yet.
Bill

[RosalindGash]

Thanks! This is so much information.

What I find amusing is that when my younger sister, who is now 20 years old, was a child (and couldn't put an un-needed relaxer in her hair) black people always knew she was black, but white people couldn't tell, LOL. I remember I took her to eat out when she was about 7-8 (I'm 12 years older), and we were coming out of the restroom when a white lady stopped me and nervously asked if my sister was biracial. It was funny. I told her that no, not that I knew of, but that there was family talk about Native American ancestry, but I didn't know for sure.

It was funny. But, the point is that my sister and I look like we could be a lot of things, all these years later, so I can only imagine what my g-grands and other family experienced.

I lived in NYC one time and my boss, a Puerto Rican, tried to convince me I was hispanic. He couldn't stand that I insisted that I was black. It was hilarious and annoying at the same time.

[Bill Childs]

That IS pretty funny !
:D

[Dreaminghawk]

Bill writes >>>> GASH, Mariah; 45, f, B, $0, $0, NC.
(ditto), Millard F.; 14, m, B. NC.
(ditto), And. Jonel (?); 14, m, B, NC. ("And." is clearly legible)
(ditto), Ann; 4; f, B, NC.

Didn't find any of these people in 1860, yet.
Bill

I can't help but see how similar this is to MORIAH and CASH ...... knowing people.... especially "mulattos" ....... were moving from flatt river to other points during that timeframe....... knowing names sometimes changed along the way....... "my" mulatto Satterfields that went to Ark, for example..... I've got a hunch they spent the 1850s on the flatt river........ oh yeah..... there's that son named Euriah, too.

Welcome to the forum, Rosalind
peace
Ken

[RosalindGash]

I know names were at the mercy of the census takers, some of which didn't care if they got people's names correct. :(

As for what you were saying about Mariah Gash, do you have a woman by the name of Moriah Cash in your family tree, from the Brevard, NC area? And, do you think that my Mariah Gash could be your Moriah Cash? Is that what you're suggesting?

I couldn't really tell what you were trying to say from reading that part of your post, sorry. :o

And, I'm guessing Flatt River is in the Brevard area? Never heard of it, then again there was a lot of stuff around here I'd never heard of, too. LOL.

[RosalindGash]

Bill,

I found out what my g-grandma Myrtle's maiden name was. It was Sloan. She and my g-granpa Rush Griffin got married on Dec. 4, 1915.

I had business across the street from the Greenville County Offices (they're all in one building), so I mosied on over to the marriage license division and looked them up. I didn't have to use the microfilm reader to get her maiden name, it was logged in this huge book (I looked under Rush's name). But, I looked up the license and made a copy from the microfilm so I would have it for my records. Cost me 50 cents, :).

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Just thought I would add my few cents in here.

I recently discovered my Mary ROARK Collins was descendant of Aaron BROCK line. Aaron Brock aka Chief Redbird ; through his son Jessie and Rebecca HOWARD ; through their daughter Barthena Brock who married Thomas SLONE/SLOAN.

[RosalindGash]

Thanks for replying! Where did they live? I still don't know exactly where my g-grandma was from. I know she was living in Greenville, and like I posted earlier, her dad lived in Durham and placed a newspaper ad to find her here. I have no idea what that's about, LOL.

I think it's time I took another trip to the library. :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Brenda Collins Dillon
Just thought I would add my few cents in here.

I recently discovered my Mary ROARK Collins was descendant of Aaron BROCK line. Aaron Brock aka Chief Redbird ; through his son Jessie and Rebecca HOWARD ; through their daughter Barthena Brock who married Thomas SLONE/SLOAN.

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

THOMAS1 SLONE was born 1770 in Ireland, and died 1852 in Clay County, Kentucky. He married BARTHENA BROCK Bef. 1800, daughter of JESSE BROCK and REBECCA HOWARD. She was born 1775 in Cumberland County, Virginia, and died 1843 in Clay County, Kentucky

Notes for THOMAS SLONE:

Last name could be spelled Sloan also

Thomas died by drowning. The story is told that one day Thomas left with an axe on his shoulder to cut wood and didn't return home for seven years. When he came home Theny asked where he had been and he said he was visiting kin folk back in Ireland.

Sounds like one of my sons,when he was a teenager he borrowed my car to go to the store...didn't return for three days.

:rolleyes:

[RosalindGash]

LOL. People do the craziest things!

I'm getting ready to head down to the main library now. Hopefully, with a last name for Myrtle, I'll be able to uncover some info.

I'd better go now while the sun's out. It's rained here for a couple of days, and I don't want to miss out on some rays :).

[Dreaminghawk]

Rosalind says>>>> As for what you were saying about Mariah Gash, do you have a woman by the name of Moriah Cash in your family tree, from the Brevard, NC area? And, do you think that my Mariah Gash could be your Moriah Cash? Is that what you're suggesting?

Sorry about the confusion, that was directed to Bill and I didn't elaborate because he was familiar with the significance of the place Moriah (15 miles north of Durham, NC) and the surname CASH in that area and timeframe. Flat River is an arm of the Neuse River with it's headwaters in Person Co. From the coming of Old Tom Collin's group in the mid 1700s until the present, the area is a "hotbed" of triracials, a cluster, if you prefer.
My other reference was to the practice of Indians and freemen taking the surname ...or variation thereof, .... of well-known or well-liked eurosettlers.

[Bill Childs]

Rosalind,
I did find a Myrtle Sloan in 1910 Greenville Co., SC, but the age is just too far off to accept on the face of it ......
ED18, Greenville Twp, p.1A, at 853 Burnes (?) Street, at 3, 3:

Sloan, Katie; Laundress, MU, f, 24; Widowed, SC, SC, SC.
(ditto), MRTLE; dau; MU, f, 10; SC, SC, SC.

I'll look for another one in 1910. Trying to isolate a "Katie Sloan" in 1900 was unsuccessful.

Dreaminghawk:
You're right. I did think about CASH and even looked for any in Oconee SC and Transylvania NC (next door counties) but didn't find any in 1850 or 1860 that equated to the GASH names I had.
......
Bill

[Dreaminghawk]

May not have thought along those lines but we found a whole family of GATES buried in the plot with CATES at one of the churches we visited yesterday.
We have also found half a dozen women named Moriah or Mariah in flat river township born during early to mid 1800s.

[RosalindGash]

Bill,

I was able to find the same information. But, I checked the other years and didn't find anything, anywhere. It's like they just disappeared. :confused:

All I can think is that maybe the census taker misunderstood what Katie told him, or just guestimated their ages. :rolleyes:

Anyway, it's looking like I'm going to have to send off to Columbia for Myrtle's death certificate. I don't know how accurate this will be, but the historian at the county library said that the death certs have the parent's names on them.

Anyway, it's a lot cheaper than sending off $27 for the social security card application.

One other thing I don't understand... That 1910 census (if it's true, but just grossly inaccurate) says that Katie was widowed. This doesn't fit what I was told. Myrtle's father tracked her down through a newspaper ad or something. If he was dead, this wouldn't have happened. Unless her mother remarried and another man raised her.

I don't know. I'm more confused and more anxious now than I was before.

[Bill Childs]

Divorce, in most areas in those days, carried a large stigma.
You see a lot of "Widowed" on census records in the early 1900s and some of these are probably just "divorced". Alternately, the father who was looking for her could have been a step-father as you suggested.

If Katie Sloan is Myrtle's mother, you'll probably have to track down Katie's marriage too - her birth year will make it impossible to find her on a census record earlier than 1900 (I didn't find her then) since the 1890 census was burned in a warehouse fire.

It's possible that the age shown for Mrtle/Myrtle in 1910 and 1920 is incorrect. I tend to think the 1930 age is closer to the truth. It matches up better with the childrens' ages versus the "married at 24" listed for her, but that could be incorrect, too.

A death cert would help for comparison purposes, however that info is certainly second-hand. Think her family at the time would know all about her? When my GG- grandfather George died, his oldest son John supplied the death cert info. John listed his mother's mother as his father's mother and John didn't know where George's parents were born. I could make excuses for John's confusion since both of his grandmother's were sisters :) but I would have thought that should have made the info even more reliable. Another example of info "etched in stone" being incorrect - my father's gravestone has an incorrect date of birth on it versus his birth certificate ! Who would have "thunk".
So, it's better to have as much info about a person as you can get.
Bill

[Patty]

Rosalind,

Isn't it amazing how people feel a need to classify race??

Growing up, my school mates used to frequently ask me what nationality I was (American). No, no, I mean where are your ancestors from (Kentucky). Then of course, when I told them I had Native American ancestry they wanted to know what tribe, as if I couldn't be Indian if I didn't know the tribe. Then of course, after telling them I was Blackfoot I was told that my ancestors couldn't be from Kentucky, but had to have come from out west.

Very annoying!

When I look around Southewestern Ohio as an adult I realize how different I really do look from all the German descendants here. Growing up I didn't have a clue how different I was.

My family was also nearly kicked out of a restaurant in Florida about 1964 (I was three). They were not one bit happy to have us there, but since I was a blond haired baby, they weren't real sure just what to do about us. We got a lot of stares and grumbling but fortunately they left us alone.

[RosalindGash]

Bill,

So much has happened since the last time I posted! There's too much to tell all in one post, so I'll give you the highlights.

I learned my g-grandmother Gertrude Gash (my g-father Samuel's mother) just died back in January. She was 108 years old! I had to hunt down Gertrude's obit through the Hendersonville (NC) Times-News' website, but I found it. It gave some valuable information.

My aunt, Gertrude's granddaughter, didn't have the number to any of her cousins, and calling information for numbers turned into a dead end. So, in a last ditch effort, I called the church listed in the obit, and found out that my g-grandmother was the "church mother" and that a lot of my relatives went to that church. And, the minister I spoke to told me that they had videos, and things, of my g-grandmother and that they'd make copies for us, so we could get to see how she looked and spoke, etc.. And, of course, he wants us to visit the family church.

The minister was so helpful, and he gave me the number to one of my g-grandmother's nieces and told me to call her. So I did. Turns out that this woman's mother was my g-grandmother's sister, and therefore my cousin, so I was speaking to a relative from my g-grandmother's "maiden" Orr family. Now, I don't have to track them down, next. She said she was looking forward to meeting me and my cousins, etc...

This cousin gave me the phone number of my other cousin who is a granddaughter of Gertrude's, and who lived with her and took care of her. When I called, she was happy to hear from me, and said she had so much information, and pictures, for me.

I'm driving up to Brevard (actually Pisgah Forest) on Wednesday (only about an hour away) to meet this cousin, who just so happens to be on vacation this whole week.

This is so amazing! One week ago, I had no idea who these people were, or how to get in touch with them, and today I have two whole sides of the family to meet!

[Bill Childs]

That IS amazing ! I'm happy you found your family !
Please let me know if Katie and Myrtle on that census turn out to be yours.
Bill

[RosalindGash]

Bill, I sure will let you know what else I find out about Myrtle. It's seeming like she's going to be difficult to track down.

I got a 2-week trial subscription to Ancestry.com so I can search through their census records since the local library hasn't implemented access from outside the library yet (but they're working on it).

Maybe I'll find some new info since I'll be searching from the comfort of home and not pressed for time... Anyhoo, I'll definitely keep you posted.

[RosalindGash]

Hi Bill. Long time no post, hehe. Well, I'm way late on the details of my trip to Brevard, but it couldn't be helped. About a week after I got back from the day trip up there, and before I could update the thread (I got a little busy), I gave myself a mild concussion. And, just when I recovered from the headaches from that, I had to go into the hospital and have major surgery on my lung (June 3rd). So, I've been recouperating and gaining my stamina back and trying to jump back into my classes, and catch up on everything. Whew! But, anyway, I'm back and I have tales from my trip.

Well, I found the house just fine. Found out that it was built, by hand, by my g-gpa Moses and his brother (who the census said lived next door...but it was actually the next property over, and up the hill that is on the back of the property). The house was added on to over the years, but the craftmanship was so good that the only thing that's been done to that house is a new roof back in the 1960s! It's showing it's age, but I dare anyone to find a newer house that can last that long, LOL.

I got to see the videos I wrote about earlier. One of them was of my g-gma recounting her family history. There were two others and they were birthday celebrations for her. The b-day celebration for her 107th birthday was fantastic! My 107 year old g-gma was a huge wrestling fan and had a thing for The Rock (how cute is that?). So, as a surprise somebody got in touch with the WWE. They sent her a taped b-day personal greeting from two major wrestlers...that ended with a greeting from none other than The Rock, himself (I started screaming and jumping up and down in the sofa cushion cuz I love me some Rock, too!). And, the cameraman/crew who was filming the celebration was sent by The Rock. Then, the next day The Rock personally called my g-gma and wished her happy birthday!

Among other things like old family pictures, I learned that Gertrude's parents had come to NC from LaFayette, GA... in a COVERED WAGON, and that was where that side of my family originated. I learned that Gertrude's parents George Orr and Jane Orr (maiden name Patton) were both bi-racial. Jane's mother was full-blooded Indian and her father was an Englishman. George's mother was black (don't know if she was mulatto) and his father was an Englishman, too.

I found out that LaFayette, Walker County, GA was Cherokee and Creek country, and that lots of Englishmen and other European men had come into the area (Patton is a solidly English surname..don't know about Orr). I also learned, thru my research, that LaFayette had been a "depot", I guess you could call it, where Cherokees/Creeks were detained until the Trail of Tears started. So, it's a good bet that Gertrude's mother's family was either Cherokee or Creek, or both.

But, that still leaves me needing to find out about Myrtle and the Saponi/Durham, NC ties...because she did definitely say she was a Blackfoot. But, that's part 2 of my search, LOL.

More to come...




Originally posted by Bill Childs
That IS amazing ! I'm happy you found your family !
Please let me know if Katie and Myrtle on that census turn out to be yours.
Bill

[Patty]

Rosalind, you have made some AMAZING discoveries! :)

How wonderful to actually have found pictures and videos!!

[RosalindGash]

I am having the time of my life with this! :) And, the best part is that more and more pieces of information keep surfacing. I talked with a cousin (her mother and my g-grandma Gertrude were sisters, but her mom was 4 years older, I think) and she knew the names of Gertrude's grandmother and grandfather. So, now I know who my ggg-grandma (Mina Stewart) and ggg-grandpa (Jackie Patton) are, too!

But, the story turns out to be a little different than I thought. Mina Stewart and Jackie Patton weren't a family. The Pattons owned and ran a boarding house, and Mina was either a slave or a servant. I don't know which. Family lore says that the child they had together (my gg-gma Mary Jane) was the FIRST free-born black child in Transylvania County (March 1866), which could lead a person to think Mina was a slave of the Patton family.

But, Mary Jane being the first free-born black child in the county could still be possible, even if Mina wasn't a slave. I'm sure that the first black child born free of the institution of slavery - PERIOD - in that small area was a moment to be marked and remembered. And, there's the evidence that Mina didn't take the Patton last name, which she would have done had she been a slave. I found Mina in the 1870 federal census under her own name (but oddly Mary Jane, who would have been 4 yrs old, wasn't listed in the household). Unless she married the Stewart, whose household she was listed under in the 1870 census. But, being that the family migration story is a fact, everyone listed in the Stewart household in the 1870 census could have been related.

There's a lot more to be learned, and it's a good thing that I'm only an hour away from where all of this happened, and where these families still reside to this day.


Originally posted by Patty
Rosalind, you have made some AMAZING discoveries! :)

How wonderful to actually have found pictures and videos!!

[Kelly]

I was raised knowing my mom was adopted. When she was in her early 30's she went on a search for any biological family she could find. She stared with the adoption agency Lutheran Social Services in Detroit, MI. This is what the unidentifiable information they gave her was...

My Mom:
Given birth name= Barbara Lee Munch (changed to Gretchen Marie Wacke by her adoptive parents)
Birthdate= 3-4-1953
Birthplace= Detroit, MI
Adopted at age 6 wks.

Her Biological Mom:
Birthplace= Shinnston, WV
She was 26 or 27 at the time of the adoption.
She was divorced from her husband and their children lived with him. 2 boys that were 3 and 6 yrs. old at the time of the adoption.
She dated and then got pregnant by a Brakeman from the DTI Railroad. Decided she didnt want to keep the baby and hid the pregnancy from her ex-husband. ( They were supposedly trying to reconcille). At her 6month review with the adoption agency, her and her husband were together again but not remarried.
Her mother's mother was a full blood Blackfoot.
Unknown as to how she ended up in Detroit.

(We are unsure as to how my mom got the name Munch. Since her mom was divorced adds a third possibility. It was either her biological father's name, her birth mother's maiden name or her birth mother's married name. We arent quite sure what was the procedure back then. But seeing as how she wanted to hide this from the husband she was trying to get back together with i dont think she wouldve used his name. But that is just my logic.)

Her Biological Dad:
French decent.
Brakeman on DTI (Detroit, Toledo, Ironton) Railroad.
Age Unknown at the time of the adoption.
Sister with a club-foot that lived or lives in Flatrock, MI.

I know this seems like alot of useless information. Ive been reading the posts from Bill Childs and it seems to me that he really knows what he is doing and was just wondering if he could tell me where to pick-up where my mom left off. The part that interests me most is that i allegedly have Blackfoot decendants. I would really like to know how to find the truth in that. And im sure my mom would appreciate any information i could give her by searching myself. Even if its just history in WV about the tribe.

Any help would be great!!!

[Bill Childs]

Hi, Kelly, Welcome to the forum,
Sorry I didn't see your post right away.

With your Mom born in 1953 and her Mom 26-27 at the time, your grandmother would then have been born in about 1926.
On the 1930 West Virginia census, there are only 8 MUNCH people indexed, in 2 households. One household does have a daughter named Mary who was born about 1926.
They were all in Charlestown (Kanawha County) in 1930 and Shinnston is in Harrison Co., just north of Clarksburg, but in 20 some-odd years, they could have moved.
Do you know the names of your Mom's biological parents?
Bill

[seacat]

Hi Bill,
This is Kelly's mom. She told me about this website. I do not know my biological parents names. A couple of extra things: My mother had 6 brothers and sisters, the youngest one died. I dont remember if she died when she was one or three, and I don't know what year that would have been. My mother's mother (my Grandmother) was a full blooded Blackfoot. The only other thing the adoption agency told me was that she had long black hair. Fron what little research I have done, I found out that alot of people migrated north when the coal mines closed. This may be how she got to Detroit. She did not graduate, but did go to a secretarial school. Thats about all the information I do have. I have sent away for a copy of my non-identifiable information, and the lady I spoke with said she would review my file and make sure she didnt exclude anything. If I get any further information I will pass it on to you.

Thanks,
Gretchen Graham

[Bill Childs]

Welcome to the forum, Gretchen,
Any additional information you come across would be appreciated. Your people are in sight but just barely, so any little tidbit of information, even if you don't think it matters, would be helpful. I hope I can help you and we'll see what we can find.
Welcome to the family.
Bill

[Bill Childs]

Gretchen,
I'll soon post the census data that I mentioned. It's likely that you'll have to do some leg-work to tie up the loose ends.
Bill

[Bill Childs]

Gretchen and Kelly,
There is only one MUNCH family indexed in 1930 West Virginia, who have children.
1930 Kanawha Co., WV; District 26 Charleston, 2nd Ward.
Pg.66A. Address: 808 Orange St.
Dwelling # 7.
Family visit # 8.
MUNCH, Edgar E.; Salesman, Refrigeration Store.
Owns house. Real Estate Value $9000.
Male. White. 38 yrs old. Married at age 23. Born in N.Y.
Father and mother born in N.Y.
..........also in this residence.....
Munch, Mary; wife, f, W, 40, M'd@25, b. WV, both parents b. WV.
(ditto), Lewis E.; son, m, W, 14, WV.
(ditto), William F.; son, m, W, 12, WV.
(ditto), Kennah N.; son, m, W, 8, WV.
(ditto), MARY E.; dau, f, W, 4 yrs 8 months old, b. Ohio*******
......................

Just an f.y.i.... the second MUNCH household is also in Charleston, 4th Ward, at 210 Randolph St:
MUNCH, George H; Foreman; m, W, 45, M'd@35; Pa., Pa., Pa.
(ditto), Alma; wife; f, W, 40, M'd@30; Pa., Pa., Pa.
(George was a Foreman working in Telephone construction.)
......................
Bill