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Dreaminghawk
12-02-2003, 09:13 PM
I'll start this thread in hopes that all will use it to post their family surnames. We will then have all the families together for easier cross reference.

My father's direct line....( Floyd,Carroll and Montgomery Co, Va )
Dalton Simpkins Montgomery Phillips Cox Burk Reed White Henson Lawrence Goad Tobias Jennings Quesenberry Slinker Dickerson Duncan

My mother's direct line..... ( Person and Granville Co, NC )
Newton Meadows Clements Tindell Lunsford Satterfield Kennedy Davie Moore Beasley Jones Mann Hailey

I'll add more as I find them

Brenda Collins Dillon
12-02-2003, 11:09 PM
Ken, This is link back to research done by a very good friend and scolar of Professor Airy Dixon. It has a lot of REED material in it.
Brenda


http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=591&highlight=Reed

Dreaminghawk
12-03-2003, 12:30 AM
Brenda, thank you for bringing that post to my attention. I haven't yet had time to delve into Saponitown archives...... with winter on us, I will be housebound and on-line more often.

My father's Reed is SARAH REED b. 1775 d. 9-26-1854. She was married on 9-5-1790 to AMBROSE N. COX SR. b. 1772 d. 1848 Montgomery Co, Va........ I think (It's in my notes somewhere) I do not have parents for either one.
peace
Ken

btw........ saw my mother's BEASLEY surname in that link also as one of headmen

Dreaminghawk
12-03-2003, 12:58 AM
Found another READE....... looking through notes on siblings of my ancesters. EDWIN BARNETTE READE married SARAH MEADOWS. I'll see what else I find in Person co Heritage books index.
Other marriages of sibling Meadows, Newtons, and Lunsfords give us surnames of ...... DUNCAN (on my mother's side), COZART, ROGERS, CRIDER, MANGUM, OAKLEY, FOWLER, BLALOCK, REGAN, CLAYTON, WATERS, DAVIS, HUNT, MINOR, LATTA, CHANDLER, BEAVERS, FARNES, SMITH, CLARK, COPLEY, TAYLER, SURLS, HOOVER, WILLIAMS, HILL, RIDING, CARVER, WEAVER, PERKINS, HORTON, JACKSON, POPE, TILTON, MITCHELL, BAGWELL, WATSON, DAY, ROBERTS, HUDSON, LYNCH.
All these are 18th and 19th century.

walkswithwolves
12-03-2003, 02:16 PM
hi,
my surnames:
jack ......b. abt 1735 in buncombe co,nc
john cole.. b.1760 in buncombe co,nc ...d. 1862 lawrence co,ky
he married cuzzie anderson...b. abt 1760.....d. abt 1833,ky
william cole ...b. 1791 in lincoln co,nc ..d.1885 magoffin co,ky
he married biddy (obedience) collins....b. abt 1800/04 madison co,ky..d.abt 1839 in magoffin co,ky

nativelady
12-03-2003, 05:37 PM
Thanks for doing this again.

Good evening, Of record my family are listed as "Pleasants".
Our surnames are Coleman, Rice, Lacks and Collins on moms side. All from Halifax County Virginia. Great great grand mother Ellen Rice and John Coleman. ------ daughter Mary Coleman (Rice) maiden name.

Richard Pleasant(Collins)

My dads surnames- "Burns" from GA and "Brown" from Hanover County Virginia.

CoheeLady
12-04-2003, 02:16 AM
Father's direct line: YOUNG (Newport News), BEASLEY, ANDREWS,FULLER (Caroline County, VA.).
Mother's direct line, just on grandma's side: CASH, SKINNER, AGEE, BONDURANT, CHASTAIN, FORD (FAURE), GARRETT, TURNER, PHELPS, WALKER, PATTERSON, ARTHUR, NORTH. All I can think of off the top of my head. All from Virginia.
Coheelady

Bill Childs
12-06-2003, 09:46 AM
Mother's lines:

from Pa/Md, to Ohio to Ind:
WOODEN, POWER.

from Va to Ky to Ind:
MORGAN, LAW, BAIN, McKAY, McCARTNEY.

from Pa to Ky to Ind:
MARSHALL

from NC to Ky to Ind:
HENDRICKS

from Va:
FOSTER, GATEWOOD, SPARKS, LEWIS, COLLINS, WILLIS, THORNTON, CHRISTIAN, MITCHELL, COCKERHAM, LAWSON.

from NC (lines orig from southern Va:
BLANKENSHIP, CHAMBERS, WHITESIDE.
...................

Father's lines:

from Va to Ky:
CHILES/CHILDS, RAZOR (from Pa to Va to Ky), COOK (orig Pa), GRABLE (orig Pa), MILLER, FORD/FOREE, MADDOX (orig Md), MAGRUDER, THORN (orig Md), DYSON (orig Md), WEBSTER, ROBERTS, GREEN, VARDEMAN, BURNS, DEAKINS, LEE, LEWIS, COLLINS, WILBURN, WRIGHT, BEASLEY, BLEDSOE, PERRY, THORNTON, WILLIS, HORD/Hoard, CAIN, QUAGIN, RODGERS, ALLISON, CHRISTY, LEMON.

from s.Va to NC to Ky:
TRAYLOR, THOMPSON, CAREY.

Brenda Collins Dillon
12-06-2003, 10:01 AM
Mother's Side:
Bennett, Perry, Goff, Allman, Lyons, Patterson, Mace, Westherholt, Stansbury, Marks, Fisher, Ferrell
(Pa, Oh, Va, WV)

Father's Side:
Collins, Spencer, Bennett, Taylor, Williams, Woods, Roark, Howard, Brock, Sloan/Slone, Donellson/Milam
(Va,NC, Ky, WV)

Step Sides:
Godfrey, Bailey, Shoulders, Prince (WV)

Children's Side: Samson, Standish, Alden (off Mayflower)

stacey.23
10-25-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Bill Childs
Father's lines:

from Va to Ky:
CHILES/CHILDS, RAZOR (from Pa to Va to Ky), COOK (orig Pa), GRABLE (orig Pa), MILLER, FORD/FOREE, MADDOX (orig Md), MAGRUDER, THORN (orig Md), DYSON (orig Md), WEBSTER, ROBERTS, GREEN, VARDEMAN, BURNS, DEAKINS, LEE, LEWIS, COLLINS, WILBURN, WRIGHT, BEASLEY, BLEDSOE, PERRY, THORNTON, WILLIS, HORD/Hoard, CAIN, QUAGIN, RODGERS, ALLISON, CHRISTY, LEMON.
Bill,

I was searching for one of my older posts and accidentally searched on my last name rather than my user name and came across an old post of yours. Anyway, I, too, have Maddox's from Kentucky. The farthest that I have them traced back is my 3rd Great-Grandfather. His name was Elias (or E.F.) Maddox. He was born about 1810 in Kentucky. In the 1850, 1860, and 1870 census records, he was in Oldham County.

Stacey

Bill Childs
10-25-2004, 11:32 PM
Stacey,
I'd have to look up Elias (sounds familiar) but only to determine how much cousin we are. The Oldham County MADDOX line is the same line as mine who were next door in Henry Co, Ky. It goes back into the early 1600s in the Maryland Colony.
Bill

stacey.23
10-26-2004, 12:31 AM
Bill,

That's neat. Does that mean these lines are from Wales?

Stacey

Bill Childs
10-26-2004, 01:51 AM
Originally, yes, the surname is Welsh. But they stopped off in Albermarle, Orange & Franklin Counties., Va, on the way to Ky.

Per "Jefferson Co., Ky Marriages, Volume 3", c.1941 by The Filson Club:
Elias MADDOX marr'd America SMITH. Father Daniel SMITH, consents in writing ("X"). Bond: Allen SMITH.
License & Bond: June 30, 1841.
Marriage: July 1, 1841.
Didn't find what I thought I had on Elias, but I "think" his father is Wilson Maddox Sr., d. Shelby Co., Ky in 1820s or 1830s - forget which.
Bill

stacey.23
10-26-2004, 09:35 AM
Thank you. I didn't have any of that information.

Stacey

Bill Childs
10-26-2004, 11:32 AM
I believe this to be the same Wilson Maddox, Sr.:
Franklin Co., Va Marriage Records (Family Tree Makers):
Wilson Maddox marr'd Elizabeth RICHARDS, April 11, 1796.

Wilson Maddox is listed on the Shelby Co., Ky Tax List dated August 7, 1800.
On the same Tax list for Shelby Co., is Dan Maddox, relationship unknown.
Bill

saj
10-27-2004, 12:59 PM
Adding to the list of names:
My mother was a Leonard...Irish...Marjorie Irene Leonard..and i have not researched her much. She died when I was in high school.
Surnames of my father on his father's side are Markey and Webber...Swiss going back to Menziken, Aargau, Switzerland..
It is on his mother's side that goes back to Va early into early to mid 1600's..in Hanover, Henrico, New Kent, Lunenburg, Mecklinburg counties and on into North Carolina before mid 1700's in some names and by mid 1700 for sure in others. To Person, Orange, Caswell and Granville counties...
Stott in Lancaster co va, English name but goes back to Scotland.
Butler is in the Hunt line back in the 1700's but my gr grandfather was Charles Butler Stott.
Osborn, Marshall, Mcgannon (darby Mcgannon was in the revolutionary war) Tanner (Ggg grandmother born 1813 in Henry co Ky...and the Allen, Walker, Hunt surnames..Many of the Allen family descendants moved to South Carolina 96th district, to Ga, to Alabama (Perry co, Greene co) and into tn and ky.
White and Wade are also direct ancestor surnames..
Sue J

saj
10-27-2004, 01:20 PM
To add to the previous surnames...
The Hunt line married into Smith, Taylor, Butler, Hunter, Graves, Etc. and the Allen into Hudson, Melton, White, Howard (that's Hunt and Howard as well as Allen and Howard) Scott, Bruce, Coleman, Richardson, Owen, Grant, Pulliam, Burton, Lewis, Anderson, Rhodes and Lowery and who knows who all as the families were so large...Sue J

vance hawkins
10-27-2004, 05:58 PM
Saj,

Were your Melton's in North central Alabama? You also mention Webber and Lowery. These 3 surnames are Cherokee and were related to one another through marriage. Melton's married into Doublehead's family and Lowery's were related to Sequoyah who was Doulehead's nephew. Also it is believed by some Sequoyah's paretnal grandma was a Howard.

This might just be a coincidence without more details.

Vance

saj
10-27-2004, 09:14 PM
Vance,
The Melton's were in Perry co Al, Coosa Co Al (more central), greene co Al, Tuscaloosa co Al and the Lowerys are from a Melton marriage..Franklin co Al and Coosa Co Al...earlier on Allen's marry with Meltons in NC on Haw river in my line...I thought Webber was just likely Swiss but that one I need to research more..the mother of my great grandmother Katherine Webber was a second marriage for my Gr Gr grandpa Webber and the names here are Thompson and an Eli Brock comes in here by marriage too. But this is later in the 1800's. My uncle told me stories of visiting the Webber/Brock/ Thompsons in Indiana....one would drink so much that they would put him on his horse passed out, slap the horse on the rear and the horse would take him home...there is much to research...
sue J

saj
10-28-2004, 03:53 PM
Bill,
More info on people here in Indiana?
I have the info on my gr. grandmother Katherine Weber born in Switzerland. Her father Hans Rudolph Weber remarried a lady named Fannie ?MNU...They had a child Fannie who married Eli Thompson in 6-3-1876 in Kosciosko co Ind. Otherwise, parents of Katherine were from Switzerland.
Henry Markey is my gr. grandfather...No record of birth but he had to be Swiss or German as his son John, my grandfather, spoke with a heavy german accent. Gr Grandma Katherine spoke hardly any English. This is what I was told at least.
What other info did you mean? On other lines?
sue J

vance hawkins
10-28-2004, 05:23 PM
If you do an internet (google or otherwise) for "Melton's Bluff" you might find something interesting. A David Melton signed a treaty in Western Oklahoma -- just 16 miles north of where I now live in fact -- he and Captain Dutch, aka Tatsi or Tahchee were the only 2 cherokee to sign it. They ere from a band of Old Settler Cherokee who would raid Comanche villages for horses, also raided Texans and anyone else really. Tahchee was Sequoyah's brother, so the same family ties . . . I think he was probably the only Melton to sign a treaty. I think there was a Moses Milton too, but might be wrong about that. Check these names on internet searches nad you might find what you are looking for. Hope so anyhoe. My computer is down and I am at the library or I'd look it up myself. I am saying this from memnry and my memory fails me sometime, but i think I am right about this. when mycomputer is up again I'll send more links.

Will Webber was called "red headed Will" and Webber Falls Oklahoma was named after him and/or his family's descendants. There was also a Will's Town in the Cherokee Nation east named after him. This might be a different set of webber's tho as common surnames sometimes are easy to be mistaken about. Lowery's and Melton's are both Cherokee and of the same region, but it is possible there were White Lowery and Meltons in the area as well. Hard to know until you dig a little deeper.

vance

saj
10-28-2004, 05:28 PM
Bill,
to be more specific with some Names of marriages.....
All being decendants of Robert Allen and elizabeth Walker...
Son William Hunt allen married twice..1. Mary Ann Owen, marr abt 1725 in Va..She was born in Henrico, died in Hanover. Daughter of Thomas Owen and Elizabeth Brookes.
Children of...Ursula Allen Marr Gideon Johnson 1747.
Nancy Allen married Nathan Melton, Sr. abt. 1757. She born in Orange Co. nc and died in Edgefield Dist. Sc
Susannah Allen b Hanover co Va married Unknown Butler.
Elizabeth Allen marr. John Morgan.
Mary allen B aby 1739 marr. William Allen
Sarah Allen b abt 1741 Married unknown Walker.

Marr 2. to Frances Grant. Daughter of Thomas Grant and Isabella Richardson. Children:
Frances Allen married Nathan Hurt
William Allen marr Sarah Howard.
Ann Ellenor allen b 1755 mar. francis Howard.
Hannah Allen marr Henry Groves Howard, 1760 Granville co NC
Isabella Allen marr Maj. Thomas Owens, Sr. They died in Harrodsburg, Mercer co Ky.
Thomas Allen marr. Mary ann Jouett
Grant Allen marr Tabitha Marshall in Granville co nc. They died in Smith Co tenn.
Mildred Allen Marr Thomas Berry may 17 1781 Granville co nc.

And these were just from the one Brother Wm Hunt allen of my Joseph Allen ancestor. There are many other names...
Should I keep going?
Sue J

saj
10-29-2004, 03:15 PM
More info..
Reg. William Allen Mar. to Frances Grant..the daughter of, Frances Allen who married Nathan Hurt. Parents of Nathan Hurt are Moses Hurt born abt 1726 and Ruth Turner B circa 1728 in Bedford Co Va...A daughter of Nathan and Frances Hurt, Mildred married William Winn b 12 april 1785 in S Carolina..Married in Adair co Ky and Mildred died about 1836 in Howard co, Mo.
Another child of nathan hurt and Frances Allen is Peyton L Hurt who married Jemima Winn...Wm Winn and Jemima Winn are brother and sister...same parents Hohn David Winn and eleanor Hicks...
Nathan Hurt and Frances Allen had the children mentioned above as Mildred and Peyton L hurt and also..Nathan Jr, Ruth, Charles, dicey, Sarah, Berry Jubal Hurt, nancy, Frances, Ceney, and william who was born mar 16 1782.
More to come...sue J

saj
10-29-2004, 03:41 PM
Cont. to last message...
Nathan Hurt who married Frances allen..Father Moses Hurt and Ruth Turner had other children besides Nathan who were,
susannah, james gorn abt. 1749 caroline co va, Moses, Elisha, Mary, Apphia, Bathsheba, William and LITTLEBERRY born abt 1761 Bedford co Va.
Sue J

saj
10-31-2004, 09:03 AM
More info...
Josiah Allen Born 1734 va grandson of Robt. Allen,
Josiah is father of Nancy allen who married Lewis MATHEWS Born about 1760..Children
Sugar Jones Mathews married Martha?
Cebelle Mathews marr. Thomas Pace and #2. Benjamin Carr
Mary Quarles Mathews
Josiah Allen mathews Born june 12 1803, in edgefield district SC
marriedLucy Martin...Parents Joshua Martin and Celia Posey.
Josiah died in Grove Hill, Clark co, Alabama.
Drury mathews marr. Jane? Died in Louisiana.
Elizabeth Mathews..no info
Milbury Mathews..no info
Sue J

saj
11-02-2004, 09:30 AM
Vance,
Thanks for responding to me..I went to Melton's Bluff to look at but I had little time..
I have to research the Meltons further..
Nancy Allen, daughter of William Hunt Allen and Mary Owen, born about 1730 married Nathan Melton Sr...One of their sons, a William Alexander Melton married Lucy Daniel Allen..Her first husband was Samuel Williams..they married in 1779 and he died in 1780..had Elizabeth Williams born Feb 7 1780.
There are several Melton children and many more Melton children and so on.....from both of these marriages of nancy and Nathan and then William and Lucy which tie the Allen's and Meltons together....
Lucy Daniel Allen is the daughter of Robert Allen III and Elizabeth West...Nancy Allen, Daughter of William Hunt..William is an uncle of Robert III. Robert II is William's brother..both sons of Robert I.
Nathan melton was born in Orange co nc. and son William Alexander Melton was born July 31 1761 Haw River, Orange co Nc.. He married Lucy July 03, 1783 Edgefield co SC and he died June 06, 1836 in Walton co Ga....If anyone desires, I can list many Melton children from these marriages, but I hate to be too lengthy...:) sue j

saj
11-02-2004, 02:16 PM
Another connection...Another child of Robt. Allen III and Elizabeth West..Elizabeth born 17 Feb 1772 96th district SC married Thomas Melton, a son of Nathan and Nancy Melton..Thomas born in Moore co SC may 7 1760..died in Greene co Alabama.
Looked on rootsweb.com and some are showing Elijah Melton as another son of Nathan and Nancy..Married Elizabeth Batson (cherokee?) and then Ann Green.
Sue J

lynellarainhawk
11-25-2004, 12:37 PM
Well, I'm still confused with all this information and I feel we still need to verify some of these, but I'm getting the cattle prod to go ahead and post these. So these are all the surnames so far from my mom, backward to approximately 1790. Their original locals bounce from PA. to VA. to NC. to OH. to IN. and KY.

Vondia Kinder
Grandma Nora Sutton
(Possibly Clay) Evans, Miller, Carlisle, (Tyrone/Tryon)(Cowen/Cowan/Cown), Hamored, Ferguson, Ricketts, Addison, Ashby, Twiford, Outten, Tibbs, Tamer, Reed, Hodges, Gentry, Staton.

There may be others, give or take, like I said we're not done yet!:) :) :) Love & Light and Happy Hunting! Lynella.

P.S. The Possible Clay, is Rachel Clay Evans. I have her both as Rachel Clay Evans and just Rachel C. Evans. :confused:

Ebony Angel
11-28-2004, 08:01 AM
Can't remember if I've posted this before as it's been a long time since I visited.
I'm looking for Jenkins (Josey-Josephine). Reportedly from TN born about 1876. Could have lived in OK but I know she lived around Parsons, KS in the earlier 1900's.

Bill Childs
11-28-2004, 11:13 PM
Ebony Angel,
Tell me some more.
Is Jenkins her maiden name?
Do you know who she married, and about where and when?
Bill

Linda
11-28-2004, 11:42 PM
Odd you should post again concerning Parsons, KS. We were just talking about Parsons families on the "Blackfoot Church" thread. Is somebody trying to tell us something?

Here's your old post. http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=231

Ebony Angel
11-29-2004, 06:52 AM
Thanks for bringing up my earlier post. I stopped doing genealogy for a while because I was going bonkers and couldn't get anything else done because I got so wrapped up in it.
I hope this answers Bill's question. I'll have to check the Blackfoot Church board. My ggfather was reportly some kind of "preacher". I had forgotten my gmother told me that many years ago.

Mousini78
11-29-2004, 10:56 AM
Ok, ready to post a few that I know....

Father's direct line: Walker, Poole, Sorrell, Cameron, Page, Spragg, McLean, and Goodrich...so far.

Mother's direct line: Whitefield, O'Briant, Pearce, Wilson, Stephens, Young, Peacock, Minchew, Towler, Moore, Farrar, VanHook, Hargis, Martin, Lyon, Nalley and Lee/Lea.

And that's just scratching the surface....oh, man....

Bill Childs
11-29-2004, 04:01 PM
Ebony Angel,
Okay, I'm looking at that 1900 Cherokee Co., Ks census.
Earlier, (must have been feeling masochistic!) :) went thru all Matthews/Mathews in 1910 Ks, Ok, Mo, Ar & Tx and all Jenkins in 1800 Tenn & Ks. Also saw the Matthews' families next door in Labette County.
So......, where and when did Josie die?
Does the birthdate listed on the death certificate match the 1900 census month & year of birth?
Bill

vance hawkins
11-29-2004, 04:18 PM
Melton's Bluff --

found at

http://freepages.books.rootsweb.com/~tdw2/legends_of_lawrence_county_alabama/p001-235.txt

. . .
The settlement of the Cherokees in the region known as Melton's
Village and the frequent passage of the Creeks, (which held the
territory between the Oconee and the Alabama Rivers), soon brought the two tribes to blows.
. . .
which first reserved tract is to be
considered the common property of the Cherokees, who now live
on the same; including John D. Chesholm, Au, tow, we and Che
Chout, and the other reserved tract, on which Moses Melton now lives, is to be considered the property of said Melton, and of Charles Hicks in equal shares.
. . .
Gaines Trace was apparently the first "road" in Lawrence
county. Congress authorized the opening of a horse path, the Indians limited the load to 200 pounds, from Melton's Bluff just north of the present Courtland through the southern part of Colbert county to Cotton Gin Port at the head of navigation on the Tombigbee River. [note: these counties are in Northern Alabama].
. . .
MELTON'S BLUFF

Melton's Bluff was the county seat of justice while Alabama was
a Territory. It was the first and largest town in Lawrence county
and located at the head of Elk river shoals, on the south bank of the
Tennessee River. It was laid out by General Andrew Jackson and
his associates. The General thought a town above the shoals must
succeed, while his relative, John Donelson and others thought that
Bainbridge at the foot of the shoals, was the very site for a large
town and they cut a broad canal through the river for a mile to the
foot of the prospective town. Neither Melton's Bluff nor Bainbridge
was a success. There are no remains at either place. Melton's Bluff
was settled rapidly and all the houses were built on a line parallel to the bluff. The most prominent citizen in the place then and for
many years was Isaac Brownlow, who died at Lamb's Ferry in 1828. The settlement was named for a Cherokee Indian, Melton.

vance

vance hawkins
11-29-2004, 04:41 PM
http://www.lawrencecounty.ala.nu/mound1.htm

View of the seven foot wooden Sequoya statue. Sequoya, (ca 1766–1843) famed inventor of the Cherokee syllabus, was born in TN. He is the only human in recorded history to single-handedly develop a syllabus. The giant sequoia trees were named for this great man. His statue also stands in the capitol building in Washington, D.C. His great-uncle, Cherokee chief Doublehead, lived near Melton's Bluff in Lawrence County ca 1800.

from Old Settler Rolls --

JOHN MELTON/MILTON:
1/4: Cherokee
Clan: Long Hair Clan
O.S. payroll-1894-96: Pg. 430 as John Melton (dead)
Old Settler Roll-1851: # 111-Saline District as John Milton (alone)

http://community-2.webtv.net/awahili/SEQUOYAH/page4.html

At the above website it says --

According to Martini, Doublehead led raids on the American settlements in the 1780s and 90s and was also known as Chugilague. He held a large reserve near Muscle Shoals (Alabama) in 1803. Accused of profiting by a treaty of 1806, he was murdered on August 9, 1807, by a party of men that included Alex Saunders, Bone Polisher and Major Ridge (Ridge later signed the Treaty of New Echota and was murdered in 1839 by members of Chief Ross's party which included Bird Doublehead, Doublehead's son). Martini also cites a source as saying Doublehead was a brother to Tahlonteeskee, John Jolly (Ooleeteeka), Nettie Carrier, War Hatchee, Pumpkin Boy, Old Tassell, Sequichee, Hanging Maw, Wurteh (mother of Sequoyah), Nancy Hite and Ann Melton (wife of Moses Melton). In addition to Bird Doublehead who later became a judge in the Saline District (1843-47, Doublehead had two daughters who married Chickasaw Chief George Colbert.

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/Chronicles/v014/v014p393.html

The Commissioners this day received a letter from John Rogers one of the Cherokee councellors informing them that David Melton, John Brown and Dutch had been appointed to represent the Cherokee Nation at the proposed Treaty with the Prairie indians. The Commissioners drew a check on the Union Bank of Louisiana in favor of Thomas B. Ballard for four hundred and twenty dollars being the amount due him in full for the hire of his wagons and teams employed in transporting Indian presents from Fort Gibson to Camp Holmes.

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/kappler/Vol2/treaties/com0435.htm

The above treaty was with the Plains tribes, and David Melton and Tahchee (Captain Dutch) signed it for the Cherokee. For some reason John Brown was not present.

That's all I have on Cherokee Melton's.

vance

lynellarainhawk
11-29-2004, 05:38 PM
Vance,

:) Hey, THANKS! This was a lot of awsome info. I just got off a site with a very long list of Cherokee Surnames. Theres some on there that we have on here. Even some of mine, but one of them Sutton, they say is Cherokee, while Bill found them to be from England, I believe.......I can't recall for sure, I'll have to check. They have Akins, Reed, Hodges, Evans, a bunch! Love & Light, Lynella.;)

saj
11-29-2004, 05:41 PM
Vance,
Thank you so much!
This is not what I found when I looked...and this is wonderful!
If Moses is born 1780 in North Carolina Married ___ Crow, then
his ancestry goes back to Richard Melton II born 1670 New Kent co..Moses father Jeremiah married Nancy Keen...Elijah-brother to Moses? married elizabeth Batson, cherokee born 1780..This would be the same Melton's married into the Allen family back to New Kent co also.
I need more time to pull together what info I do have..Nathan Melton was on the Haw River mid 1750's...
This Moses died in Ga 1863. Don't know if I'm on this right track but we will see.
Thank you again:) Sue J

stacey.23
11-29-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by vance hawkins
...The Commissioners drew a check on the Union Bank of Louisiana in favor of Thomas B. Ballard for four hundred and twenty dollars being the amount due him in full for the hire of his wagons and teams employed in transporting Indian presents from Fort Gibson to Camp Holmes...


That Ballard name is interesting. I have a John BALLARD was married in Greene County, Ohio to Susan Caroline DAY, daughter of Dudley DAY and Mary JEFFRIES. According to the one census record that I have for him, he was born abt. 1845 in North Carolina. He died in 1872 and Susan married my 2nd great-grand-uncle, John JONES. After John Jones’ death, Susan applied for his pension, and a J. B. BALLARD of West Carrollton (Montgomery County), Ohio was a witness for her.

Stacey

vance hawkins
12-01-2004, 03:22 PM
Glad to be of help, Lynella.

Thanks Sue, hope it helps. If it is talking about 2 Moses Melton's, perhaps they knew each other or were related. Quite frequently in many families in those days they used the same names over and over from one generation to the next.

Stacey, it was my Wayland ancestors that were at Fort Gibson, IT, in 1830. They married into my Richey family in Arkansas in 1848. My Richey's were in Indiana (Gibson County) until 1844. A direct ancestor, John Richey (1797-1861) married Mary (Polly) Wood(s) in 1819. While in Indiana, other of those Wood's married some people surnamed "Day". Someone was here a while ago and posted it, but I forget who.

Interesting coincidence ?? . . . :)

vance

stacey.23
12-02-2004, 02:40 AM
Vance,

I found the posts you mentioned from last year. In reading through them, I found some more interesting names (WOOD(S), WHITE, COTTRELL, BROWN, RICHEY, DICKSON, HARRIS) that were mentioned in that thread are also in the 1850 Greene County census records. The RICHEYs were on the same page as the BROWNs, JEFFRIES and WHITTINGTONs. One of the BROWNs and also a POUGE were listed as being born in Indiana. Also, I didn’t see any WAYLANDS, but there was one family of WAYLENT, with the oldest a James being born 1824 in Indiana. Is this just all too coincidental?

In regards to the DAYs, the farthest back Marla had was a Laban DAY, b. 1804 in Kentucky. I have been unsuccessful in finding Dudley’s parents or siblings, so I don’t know how to go about trying to connect these families.

Here is what I have on the Day family of Greene County, Ohio…

Dudley DAY (b. 1815) and Mary Ann JEFFRIES (b. 1817) were both born in Virginia and were married July 8, 1837 in Greene County, Ohio. They had at least 13 children…
1) Charles T.; b. 1838 in Greene County, Ohio; married Sarah “Ann” RANDALL, daughter of Ezra RANDALL and Clarissa THOMPSON
2) Daniel; b. 1839 in Greene County, Ohio; died in Tennessee during the Civil War
3) William H.; b. 1840 in Greene County, Ohio; married Amanda REED, daughter of David and Susan REED
4) Margary Ann; b. 1842 in Greene County, Ohio; married William H. REED, son of David and Susan REED
5) James R; b. 1846 in Greene County, Ohio; married Susan “Anna” Unknown
6) Mary E; b. 1850 in Greene County, Ohio
7) Susan Caroline; b. 1851 in Greene County, Ohio; married (1) John BALLARD, (2) John JONES, son of Harvey JONES and Martha ROSSER
8) Silas D.; b. 1853 in Greene County, Ohio; married Elizabeth RADER, according to an online tree, daughter of Daniel RADER and Nicy HOLLINS
9) Dudley O.; b. 1854 in Greene County, Ohio; married Ella FRISE
10) Nancy J.; b. 1855 in Greene County, Ohio
11) Josiah (or Joseph); b. 1857 in Greene County, Ohio
12) Sarah Charlotte “Ladie”; b. 1859 in Greene County, Ohio
13) George F.; b. 1860 in Greene County, Ohio; married Maggie PURCELL, daughter of Patrick and Sarah PURCELL

I didn’t find any of these particular DAYs in Gibson County, Indiana, but Dudley O. and Silas were both married in Wayne County, Indiana in 1874. As far as I can tell, most of this family stayed in and around Greene and Clark Counties in Ohio, with the exception of Silas. He is the only one that I have found census records outside of Ohio. By 1880, he was in Edgar County, Illinois. His youngest child was born in Kansas in 1885. His widow then married Jacob SMITH, had another child in Kansas in 1893, and by the 1900 census, this family was living in Woods County, Oklahoma Territory.

The grandkids for which I have spouses’ names married into LOPER, MULLEN, BARNES, BUTT(S), HUPMAN/HUFFMAN, INSKEEP, CHAMBERS, and NAVE families.

Stacey

techteach
12-02-2004, 05:31 AM
Stacey:
I have a few of your names but the one that caught my eye, because I have not seen it on the forum here from anyone other than me, is Butt. They intermarry with my Huston/Green line, coming from Berkeley County, VA (now WVA) originally, and going with them to Licking County, OH.

Techteach

stacey.23
12-02-2004, 09:01 AM
Techteach,

That's neat. The BUTT/BUTTS (I have seen both on census records) that I have is a Joseh T. BUTT(S). He was born abt. 1860-62 in Virginia (or West Virginia). He married Arminta Ellen "Minnie" REED, daughter of William H. REED and Margary Ann DAY and granddaughter of Dudley DAY and Mary Ann JEFFRIES. Joseph and Minnie had 3 children: Fauna, Roscoe, and Ohmer. I don't know who Joseph's parents were, but in the 1880 Census, he was a servant/farm laborer a HEDGE household. In the 1880, 1900, and 1910 census records, he lived in Greene County. I didn't see Joseph, but there are both BUTT and BUTTS buried in Greene County Cemeteries. I don't have the actual dates on them, I just have the index. If you want the list of them, just let me know.

Stacey

lynellarainhawk
12-02-2004, 09:53 AM
Hey! Just nosing through your info. and it is quite interesting. I've got Reed way back. I think, not sure off the top of my head, but Polly Hodges married a William Reed. I know Hodges were in Scioto, Ohio on I think 1830's census. Not clear on the Reed fellow yet. And there's a possibility Polly was a nickname. Bill refers to her as Mary "Polly" Hodges. But, he's hit a bit of a bump on that one. Anyway, just visiting! You've got some good info. here though. Love & Light, Lynella.:)

techteach
12-02-2004, 11:49 AM
Stacey,
I am looking at my Green genealogy. Dinah Darke Butt marries William Green about 1763 most likely in Prince George County, MD and dies in Shepherdstown, VA, now WVA. Oh, did not realize it, but she then is my direct ancestor. I thought the name married into mine. This family lives near my Swearingens and near Odells. This is a name on this forum.
Anyway, the Butts continue to intermarry with the Greens but my information then moves to Licking County, OH where they all settle. No further Butts are in my direct line. However, I am finding that other Butts on my list marry Days also:
122. ABI ADELIA8 BUTT (BASIL7, RICHARD6, SARAH ANN5 GREEN, WILLIAM4, ROBERT3 GREENE, THOMAS2, THOMAS1) was born March 30, 1853 in Monroe Twp, Licking Co, Ohio, and died 1888 in Johnstown, Monroe Twp, Licking Co, Ohio. She married SQUIRE JOHN DAY 1872 in Licking Co, Ohio, son of TRUMAN DAY and ELIZABETH. He was born February 28, 1847 in New Bethel, Clermont Co, Ohio, and died June 20, 1924 in Monroe Twp, Licking Co, Ohio.

More About ABI ADELIA BUTT:
Burial: Green Hill Cemetery, Johnstown, Licking Co, Ohio

More About SQUIRE JOHN DAY:
Burial: Green Hill Cemetery, Johnstown, Licking Co, Ohio

Children of ABI BUTT and SQUIRE DAY are:
233. i. MILTON9 DAY, b. February 23, 1875, Monroe Twp, Licking Co, Ohio; d. 1947, Johnstown, Licking Co, Ohio.
ii. HOMER DAY, b. Abt. 1877, Monroe Twp, Licking Co, Ohio.

I really should go through and pull all the names out of this genealogy and post them. I did not put it together; a cousin did. Many names are already here.

Techteach

vance hawkins
12-02-2004, 03:20 PM
Saj --

There were people known as the "Chickasaw Traders" that seemed to be in the same region as the Saponi (Va/NC border). One of those links mentioned Lawrence and Colbert counties in North Alabama. One man researching the origin of the Chickasaw Colbert's said James Logan Colbert (father of the Chickasaw surname) -- it was said of him his mother was descended from James Logan, one of those Chickasaw traders -- and he lived right there at one of those 3 islands on that river where the Saponi were -- forget the name. I researched this because my ancestors lived in the Chickasaw Nation here in Oklahoma, but other branches also seem to have been with/near the Saponi on many occasions in earlier days. Lawrence County Alabama was ceded from both the Cherokee and the Chickasaw in 1818 as it was claimed by both until that time. That one article mentioned Creek (Muskogee) and Cherokee having conflicting interests in that region but failed to mention the Chickasaw had as good a claim as either the Creek or Cherokee.

After researching quite a bit, I think some of those "Chickasaw traders" may have been mixed blood Virginia Indians, possibly Saponi.

==========================

Now I'm gonna have to look at a map and see where Greene County, Ohio is. Is that where "Xenia" is? My Richeys sort of dead end with a g-g-g-grandpa according to census records, b. 1797 in Va. -- can't find his parents. If mine connect to those in Ohio, maybe there is a lead there I can search. Thanks. Also I was told Dickson and Dixon were the same surname (the mother of my "Mary Polly Wood(s) (b. 1796)was a Nancy Dickson), Mary Wood(s) was born near Holston River in E Tn., but we don't know where her mother, Nancy Dickson was born. Again, thanks.

vance

Linda
12-02-2004, 11:18 PM
Is that the confluence of the Staunton and the Roanoke that you're referring to?

saj
12-03-2004, 02:18 PM
Vance,
Thank you for that info on the traders. I need to find more to read on that sometime...right now I am working these long days and am so tired I can't think..I sat down five minutes ago and am just about asleep! Take care,
:) sue J

vance hawkins
12-03-2004, 03:01 PM
Linda, I think that was where you said you were now living, but I am not 100% sure. Someone recently was looking into the "Colbert" surname and I posted quite a lot about it, I think in both genealogy and history areas. The reseacher was an Oklahoma Chickasaw I believe. Again details might be off. I amonly online 1/2 an hour per day so I don't have much time to read my mail and respond.

Saj, hope it was helpful. Part of my family took a similar route to N Alabama, but went to Ark and IT (Ok) afterwards.

Vance

vance hawkins
12-03-2004, 03:39 PM
Below is the link and the post found on the History forum that I was talking about. --

===========================

http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/greybird7/genealogy.html

The person creating the website above is trying to research the origin of the Chickasaw Colbert's and says --

---------------------- quote ----------------

According to COLBERT family tradition, a man named "James LOGAN" was the grandfather of James COLBERT. Given the similarity of names, plus the fact that Chickasaw traders lived at Quankey Creek, Occoneechee Neck and on Plumbtree Island, circumstantial evidence strongly suggests that this James LOGAN was indeed the grandfather of James Logan COLBERT.

Additional information on James LOGAN comes from F.B.KEGLEY in his book KEGLEY'S VIRGINIA FRONTIER. In it he describes some of the earliest settlers on "the southwest frontier below the mountains" in Virginia.

"On the south side of the James below the mountains the frontier at this time was represented by the Welsh settlement on the Mcherrin; Col.BYRD's improvements on the Roanoke above Sandy Creek, including the three charming islands, Sapponi, Occoneechee and Totero; Major MUNFORD's Quarter near-by; Col.BYRD's Land of Eden on the Dan and Major MAYO's Survey adjoining; Richard and William KENNON's grant on Cub Creek which supplied farmsteads for John CALDWELL's Presbyterian Colony...

"On the South eastern creeks were...Joseph COLSON at Major MUMFORD's...and Peter MITCHELL, the highest inhabitant on Roanoke River, about six miles above the fork.Among the first to become settled on Cub Creek were John and William CALDWELL, James LOGAN..."(37)

---------------- end of quote --------------

Vance

Linda
12-03-2004, 05:35 PM
Yes, that passage is describing Mecklenburg county where I now live and some adjoining counties. Byrd and Mumford owned some of the first plantations.

vance hawkins
12-04-2004, 05:27 PM
Linda, I am thinking I wanna research more about possible mixed blood Virginia Indians who might have settled on the Tennessee River in Northern Alabama and might have mixed with either the Cherokee or Chickasaw. That too, might be the origin of the "Blackfoot/Cherokee", or one of them anyhow. If this is the case, they moved to N Alabama before 1800 and some went to Kentucky after that, maybe the 1830s at the time of the removal. Colbert's might be just one of several families that fit this scenario.

It would be hard -- maybe impossible -- to prove tho.

vance

Bill Childs
12-04-2004, 10:29 PM
Stacey,
You may have already been thru this, but I only found two "possibles".... not "good" matches, but....

There is another listing for a Joseph Butts in 1880 Greene Co., Oh., in the Sugar Creek District, besides the listing you cited.
A 15 yr old son of George (53, Va) and Mary (43, Oh.). Bear with me here.... They were in 1870 Guernsey Co., Oh., where Joseph is listed as 5, consistent with the 15 y/o in 1880 and a seeming "mismatch" to the Joseph T. you're looking for..... my point here is that a person "working out" was probably really "working out" in the fields when the census taker came by and the lady of the house didn't really know that much about the hired hands......

A second possibility is a Joseph T. BUTZ, 10, b. Oh., son of Andrew, 46 (widowed), b. Pa., in 1870 Stark Co., Oh., Bethlehem Twp (your's is listed on the 1900 census as born October 1860 in Va.).
Not "great" matches but they might bear more research if you haven't already. Sorry I couldn't do more.
Bill

stacey.23
12-05-2004, 01:18 PM
Bill,

Thanks for the additional info. I will keep those in mind when I receive his death record.

I did look for some more census records after my earlier posting and found them in Dayton, Montgomery County, Ohio in 1920 and 1930. And, then I found him in the online Ohio Death Certificate Index, 1913 - 1937:
Name: BUTTS JOSEPH T
County Name: MONTGOMERY
Date of Death: 2/18/1933
Volume Number: 7145
Certificate Number: 11305

I am going to send for this. I am hoping it will have his place of birth and parents' names and maybe we can see if this family links up to Techteach's family.

Stacey

techteach
12-05-2004, 02:46 PM
Stacey:
I looked for Joseph Butts in my Green genealogy. There are several. They are earlier than yours, though, but one had a date that caused me to see if he seemed to be the father of yours. The wife's name does not match though. They start off in Berkeley County, VA, now WVA and go with the Greens to Licking County. A few go on to Kansas and maybe several other places. I have not followed them closely, as they splinter from my direct line and marry sisters and brothers of my Green ancestors. I skimmed their part of "The Green Tree." That was why it surprised me to find one in my direct line.

Techteach

Benjamin Walker
12-05-2004, 06:16 PM
Well i'll try this, Kinnon in NC and Ga, Raines in NC, SC, GA, and Fla., Walker in WV, Carte in Ohio and WV. Bluejoy

stacey.23
12-05-2004, 11:15 PM
Techteach,

Thanks. I will keep those in mind too when I receive Joseph's death record. The last time I sent for one, it took about a month for me to get it. I will let you know what I find out.

In regards to the Greens, I checked my file and suprised to see that I had one in there. My grandpa's cousin (Walter DAVIS, b. 1898 in Kokomo, Indiana) was married to Pauline HUBBARD (b. 1899 in Kokomo). Pauline's grandmother was Eliza GREEN (b. 1820 in Indiana). Online family trees have her as a daughter to Daniel GREEN (b. 1783 in North Carolina) and Nancy VARDAMAN (b. 1789 in South Carolina).

Stacey

techteach
12-06-2004, 12:39 AM
Stacey,
I only see Davis, but no Walter in "The Green Tree.'' I ought to say that this is where I find the Butts too.

Techteach

saj
12-06-2004, 03:42 PM
Vance,
On the Chickasaw traders...there were two Moses Meltons father and son.
And today I found more on James Allen Chickasaw agent, son of William allen born about 1720-1725 in Va. James born about 1760 in Va. Went via NC and followed the Natchez Trace. died in Toccopola, Chickasaw Indian Territory, Pontotocco, Ms. There was a reference to William allen, Cherokee trader, described in 1799 as being "too old to be of service"..James was a subagent to Malcolm McGee. Married Susan Colbert and then Betsy Love..I don't know if he is of the same Allen line as mine but I don't know how many Williams in Va in early 1700's were not either. It seems every Robert had a William. etc. There was one in the right line born 1725...there was also another trader Jim Allen and the two Allens owned a tavern together and both belonged to the Monroe church in MS. The daughter of James Allen and susan Colbert, Margaret "Peggy" Allen married Simon Burney in IT.
Making some progress..will post more on traders as I find..
Sue J

Bill Childs
12-06-2004, 06:29 PM
From "Passports of Southeastern Pioneers, 1770-1823", by Dorothy Williams Potter, pg. 329:

"........ Knoxville, 11th March 1797

Sir,
My instructions from the Honorable the Secretary of War require that I report to you the names of all persons residing in the Cherokee country not natives of the land.
For this purpose I have collected the following Schedule of their names & employments which I am induced to believe is tolerable accurate."
(on that list)

Name: "William ALLEN"
Nation: (blank)
Employments:
"Old, condemned as unfit for service."

A "Dutch" Trader, Benjamin Hawkins is also on this list as is "Thomas Gess, esq., English, A Magistrate under the territorial goverment"

(this document ends as.....)
"The blanks in the Nation column are either Americans or unknown. Those whose characters are noted in the third column I have represented according to the best information I have been able to receive.
I am very respectfully, Sir,
Silas Dinsmoor
(to)
His excellency Governor Sevier"

.................................................
Same source, pg.248:
"Executive Department
Tuesday 31st October 1809
On application
ORDERED
That passports be prepared for the following persons to travel through the Creek Nation of Indians - to wit - one for Doctor John Smylie, and one for William and Eason Allen the former with his family
..... which were presented and signed."

saj
12-06-2004, 08:36 PM
Bill!
I have seen the passports before but did not really understand what they were for except to travel through.....
William Allen born in 1724 son of Robert Allen II did have a son James..that is where I left off before...
anyway, is Benjamin related to Vance? or we have to see?
I am not totally sure what all of this means except the researching of traders in an interesting subject...and could be a help with making connections of people to others....
Thanks so much
:D sue J

Bill Childs
12-06-2004, 10:26 PM
Sue,
Just posted surnames found in the book - not implying they are one and the same people someone has looked for.

Lynella,
"Passports" issued by the U.S. Govt were required by Treaty for a citizen of one "nation" to travel to/through another "nation", just like today, and Indian Nations were regarded as "Sovereign Nations" in those days.

vance hawkins
12-07-2004, 12:58 PM
There was a very famous "Benjamin Hawkins", who was Indian Commissioner to the Southern Indians, but he spent most of his time dealing with the Muscogee Nation (Creek). There was a Thomas Gist from White County, Tn who fought against the Chickamauga and for American Independence against the Brittish in the Revolutionary War. I have looked and found this Thomas Gist had a son also named Thomas Gist. There was a Thomas Gist who lived in the Cherokee Nation, and there was one in Wilkes County, NC. Also found a Thomas Gist in Kentucky and one in Arkansas (and into IT) and Missouri. There was one also in Lawrence County, Alabama. These were all alive when one Thomas Gist whom I believe to be my ancestor lived, and I don't know which one he is, or perhaps he was another. Recently a relative came up with evidence that the man I think we are descended from myght be the wrong man and we have to look elsewhere for the parents of Harriet Guess (1818-1886). It is a mess. :(

Benjamin Hawkins did have children who were both Cherokee and Creekas well as full blood White descendants, but I have no knowledge of any relationship of my family to him. Grandpa Hawkins (Noah Allen Hawkins, 1877-1953) did have a brother whose middle name was "Benjamin", however. Noah's father was Joshua Allen Hawkins, 1837-1892). That made me think Josh's mother "might have" Allen as her maiden name, but we don't know who Joshua's parents were. Census records say Josh was born in Alabama. Cherokee Trail of Tears was 1838-1839, so Josh would have been a baby at that time.

saj
12-07-2004, 09:15 PM
Bill,
I realize that you are not implying that the names posted in a book may not be related to anyone here....
I was just relaying something I had found on a website...
I do find the subject of traders interesting although it may not relate to me at all personally..but maybe to someone here...
Lynella, you are so sweet.
Maybe we will find we are related back in time somewhere.
In the meantime my husband mailed the bills out I left in his car with no stamps on them!
AND I continue to work double shifts. My reality is out there somewhere right now...that reminds me of the song Out there Somewhere from the Movie...American Dream? Fivel? Feivel? The Mouse? "Someday we'll be together, out there some day, somehow"?
when my father was dying, that movie and the song from it was popular..we had watched it together and he was crying...I knew that he hoped we would be together someday...I cannot hear that song without crying...he had a beautiful soul...although he was not a religious man...
A slice of life there. Goodnight all. Saj
The:) :)

Missy
12-07-2004, 09:30 PM
I'm searching my Harris roots, Surnames: Harris ,Male,Norris Ok here we go William (Billy) harris b. 6-12-1807 in Va. believed to be from the Catawba tribe His mother was Rebecca Male Daughter of George Male and Elizabeth Norris. Father uknown Harris.. There were two men listed on the draper manuscripts as Billy and Peter Harris as Catawba indians.. Some believe one of these men were Williams Father??? William lived in Washington Co. Va. He had 14 children Three by Sarah (Sally) Norris b.1805 parents were Prettyhair Norris and Sam Norris b. abt 1750 the other 11 children were with Rhonda Male b. 1823 parents were George Male and Elizabeth Norris. I guess I'm having a hard time locating Williams father because they didnot have to record births until later any input would be appreciated
Thanks Missy

lynellarainhawk
12-08-2004, 10:39 AM
Brenda,

I'm glad I'm not the only one in the family with these problems! Thank you!:D :D :D Lynella.


Bill,

You're right, I mean about the problem of posting other stuff in a designated thread. It sort of gets everything off track doesn't it. :) :) :) Lynella.

Techteach,

Yeah! Now if we only had a green, mean smiley face wearing a Santa hat, that would be perfect! ><
^
~~ Something like that with a hat! :D :D :D Lynella.
BUT, the nose and the mouth that moved over there is supposed to be under the eyes!

vance hawkins
12-08-2004, 05:14 PM
Saj,

Those surnames you mention -- Allen, Love, Colbert, & McGee are all from very well known and prominent Chickasaw families.

Just knowing migration patterns and routes might help some people, so thanks for posting that material.

As I said somewhere, I think some of these traders might have been mixed blood (mixed with Catawba or Saponi or some other tribe, probably descended from a Christian Indian) before they endered the Cherokee or Chickasaw Nations, and mixed with them.

But if anybody asked me for proof I'd be hard pressed to provide it.

Double shifts?
:(

My sympathies --

don't forget t' GET SOME REST!
;)

vance

CoheeLady
12-12-2004, 01:33 PM
My family surnames are on the first page, so I'm going to just leave it. The thread did get off course, as people were "talking" more than sharing family surnames. :p

By the way listing family surnames & States where they resided is a good idea. Also this site has an option that allows you to see older threads, so the idea of other threads getting lost or pushed aside doesn't hold true. ;)

Dreaminghawk
12-13-2004, 12:04 AM
The original intent of this post was to be a archived list of names the forum members were searching....... also a place to see which names are shared with which other posters....or cousins ;-)
A thread that would be pulled up using the search surname feature.
I wouldn't have a problem with moving or removing the off-topic posts so this thread could be used as a tool by newbies....the search will pull it up and they can post their names and see who they share them with and then withdraw from the thread. Personally, and I know I'm guilty too, I think we are sometimes too chatty in the genealogy and history forums, but that's just me.
peace
Ken

lynellarainhawk
12-13-2004, 10:44 AM
Ken,

Yes! I agree, we all get too chatty where we should be devoting more time to the topic at hand. In fact,:D I'm doing it now! I loved your original plan with this and I too would have no trouble moving the "gunk" somewhere else or starting a new thread and transmigrating our surnames to it. OR Just start it over and really put an imphasis on "Surnames Only." I know I'm being a bit of a killjoy, but, well that's just my thoughts.:) :) :) Love & Light, Lynella.

saj
12-13-2004, 11:15 AM
Ken,
I agree..we have too much mixed into other stuff.
Does it take up too much space to have a "primary surname" on one thread?
Like,
RICE, Ann marr. PAYNE, Jerome...dates.
Children: RICE, __ marr. or whatever info.
RICE, ___ marr.
RICE...
RICE...
Any names as the Payne above would come up in a search for Payne and come back to here but the primary thread would be for RICE..would that work?
Sue J

Bill Childs
12-13-2004, 04:23 PM
Ken & Sue,
That would be good resource so long as it doesn't get gummed up with a lot of chit-chat but I can take of that.

If everyone is agreeable, I'll go back thru the "Family Surnames" thread and delete posts not directly contributing to that surname list. That way, we wouldn't have to re-post the suname lists already there.
Bill

Dreaminghawk
12-13-2004, 05:36 PM
Bill..... that sounds good to me...... though there are some bits that may merit threads of their own.
What Sue says about individual family threads sticking to a primary family is also good but will be harder since some of these names are so interconnected. A thread devoted to group migrations may also be worth considering.
I post on topical and open boards so can go either way..... but do think we should try to stay on-topic on genealogy forum. .... less confusing ..... it's hard enough to keep a line straight in my head, anyhow ;-)
peace

Bill Childs
12-13-2004, 10:53 PM
Ken,
Just exchanging ideas.......
I think specific surnames and where they were found, with known descendancy and allied families listed and where they were found or from, would suffice to help people identify possible connections. Their migration would then be included in the "b. in ......" case.

Even if a direct "hit" were to be scored from such a listing, I would recommend a new thread be started, noting the speciifics of the ".... Surnames" thread.... but, I think that is utopian and not to be achieved within Human communities :) and the more I've thought about this the more my inclenation is to refer the dear reader to "Newspaper Headlines" in the "Know Any Funny Stories" section of the forum.
Guess we can try it, and hope for the best :)
Anyway, I'll clean it up.
Bill

lynellarainhawk
12-13-2004, 11:23 PM
Ken,

;) Here, here! My brain is rather linear on this as well. I get overly befuddled with the geneology! Sort of like getting gum out of my hair when I wake up in the morning! It just can't happen!:D

Bill,

Clean away kind Sir!;) Love & Light, Lynella.

naelady
12-15-2004, 01:06 AM
kinda new thread
vance you said.
"also raided Texans and anyone else really. Tahchee was Sequoyah's brother, so the same family ties . . . I think he was probably the only Melton to sign a treaty. I think there was a Moses Milton too, but "
this dutchy should be sequoyah's uncle, isn't this raiding duchy son of attacullculla ? it is this line of a twin sister to Turtle at home AKA shoeboots that I wanted to ask you about your name Hawkins and is it native ( any native blood will do and where did it live after the removal , say 1835+
I have a HAWK signing with seqoyah's family for reserves or old settlers roll . then a child Hawkins shows up iwth a family I know is related to the family also . so where where the cherokeeish HAWKINS living during and after the removal?
renee ( I am here today really here looking for my hubbies Henry Perkins family NC lines. no luck so far) but wanted to understand what you said here. thanks , Ps Iknow shoeboots or his brothers sign treaties in spanish for texas lands with teh spanish or maybe in florida but it seems to be in texas . but the signer could be shoeboots or any of his brothers can use the CHU (shoe) name or chulio(a or ah) names or prefixes , becasue it was a family naming thing.

Bill Childs
12-15-2004, 08:11 AM
Welcome back, NAELADY,
I'd be glad to help.
When and where was Henry Perkins?
Bill

naelady
12-15-2004, 01:39 PM
Hi vance well I finally got a bigger computter the other was so old and Sooooo slowwwwwww. it just made it very hard to corrispond, too much lost to way to slow-nesses.
welll it is Henry I, II, III, they say halifax i think . I don't have a really good soarce for anything yet, don't know what to trust yet. but his james says Ga and NC is where their family was from. HenryIII then on to Ga around Troup at some point.. in some generations then it is said some part of his family went to Oh or IN for a little while but his branch moved on and then on to TX pre civil war , none of the kids seem to be born there or I have the wrong branches as far as maybe other members or sirnames went there and it was just that "some of the family went to Oh or IN " and it wasn't perkins but simmons or something like that. . his perkins branch went to los Angeles Ca. around 1900 -1910 I think sometime around then. and lots of his closest cousins are on the choctaw rolls , married Brasheers etc. this is the reasons I suspect chickamauga cherokee blood , Chickamauga means Chickasaw blood.

native surnames in his family
perkins NC-GA , simmons , butler Ga , crawford AR-TX, zachary ,foreman Cotton TX, can't think of any more right now.
i suspect maybe chickamauga/ maybe creek mixed cherokee blood from Ga some say possible Nansamond in early Perkins which might make lots of sense considering the story of Ohio or IN. which time wise could looks like about when some of the nansamond got a reserve in ohio , then lots of the cherokee went there to live at the time fo the removals . my cherokee boots /ross lived there and that time and my ross's were near the nansamond reserve and seem to have had something to do with it somehow.
so is your Hawkins cherokee ? where did they live? I am still trying to find shoeboots twin sisters family.
renee

naelady
12-18-2004, 12:54 AM
soory bill I thought it was vance who answered but darn as soon as I hit the button I was your name there. sorry.
on my hubby's perkins


here hernyII's info from worldconnect.
Birth: 1742 in Currituck County,NC
Death: 27 FEB 1800 in Halifax Co,NC
Note: Name Suffix: II 1
Change Date: 25 MAR 2003 at 23:13:59

Father: Henry PERKINS
Mother: Abigail BRENT

Marriage 1 Anne FEREBEE b: 15 SEP 1746 in Halifax Co,NC

it talks about herny at poplars , indian ridge NC. do you know what peoples were connected to that area in late 1600's early 1700's. thanks Bill. sorry about that mix up. renee

Bill Childs
12-19-2004, 06:17 PM
NAELADY,
I do not know who was in the Indian Ridge area, only that it is supposed to be in Currituck Co.
There is a problem with the Anne Ferebee 1746 marriage location.... Halifax County was not created until 1758 (from Edgecomb).

Do you have a proven line to this Henry Perkins, d.1800 Halifax Co., NC?

Patty
12-19-2004, 08:19 PM
My father's paternal lines:

Father's surname / married to-

Hubbard / Campbell - Clay Cty. KY ~ 1905
Hubbard / Ball - Clay Cty. KY ~ 1890
Hubbard / Campbell - Clay Cty. KY ~ 1870
Hubbard / Ramsey - Clay Cty. KY ~1840
Hubbard / Hollandsworth - Ashe Cty. NC ~ 1820
Hubbard / Hollingsworth - VA to Ashe Cty. NC ~ 1800
Hubbard / Unknown - VA ~ ? but died in Clay Cty. KY in 1822
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My father's maternal lines:

Mother's surname / married to -

Campbell / Hubbard (Ray) - Clay Cty., KY ~ 1920
Campbell / Campbell - Leslie Cty. KY ~ 1888
Colwell / Campbell - KY ~ 1860
That's all I have if I follow strictly maternal lines.

------------------------------------------------------------
My mother's paternal lines:

Father's surnames / Married to -

Hamblin / Campbell - Perry Cty., KY ~ 1920
Hamblin / Hoskins - Perry Cty. KY ~ 1910
Hamblin / Morris - Perry Cty. KY ~ 1850
Hamblin / Gwinn - KY ~ 1857
Hamblin / Hamblin ? 1800
Hamblin / Dickinson ? 1750
I have earlier dates & names, but no locations.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

My mother's maternal lines:

Mother's surnames / married to -

Campbell / Hamblin - Perry Cty., KY ~1920
Morgan / Campbell - Perry Cty, KY ~ 1890
Campbell / Morgan - ~ 1870
Eversole / Campbell - Ashe Cty. NC to Perry Cty. KY 1808 to 1891
Judd / Eversole ~1800


Other prominent surnames:

COMBS
DUFF
BOONE
BAKER
COUCH
STIDHAM

lynellarainhawk
12-19-2004, 09:07 PM
Patty,

So good to hear from you. I'm very glad to see your list. :) :) :)

Patty
12-19-2004, 09:19 PM
Good to be here Lynella!! :D

I have a couple of weeks off, and I've been "playing" for the last two days. Tomorrow I have to get busy though and get some work done!

lynellarainhawk
12-19-2004, 10:24 PM
:D Oh, I'm glad you had a few days to kick back. Gotta' worry about ya'!:) Love & Light, Lynella.

naelady
12-20-2004, 02:27 PM
HI sir
well I don't know exactly what that means . I have carefully followed his family documents as they came and have them to james s perkins in dennison/fannin/lamar/ and then offspring to Jack co Tx. census say his family was born in Ga and Nc. , his james s the internet says a brother is the Ira of the choctaw /brasheer . family never said the Perkins were indian or not . but I guessed jack's family was native because of where they lived and a possible hint was color of his skin , his core beliefs were christian but more something that made me think he was native also , had to do with respect for the earth and animals etc. . and the bone structure of his brothers face helped make me suspeciuos of some native blood , and well the fact that more than a few folks had said his dad's big ears were choctaw <LOL> .
most all of jack's cousins I can locate so far are the ones registered in Ok as choctaw. but when other saponi groups learn he is a "perkins from NC " well they say they know what he is and we don't have a clue what a early Nc/Ga perkins is .
I am collins MO. on my dad's mom side a cherokee Ga married MY colllins.. , but my mom is choctaw/cherokee ( AL /MS) then north texas/southern OK . on both her sides the same . both sides her families lived in Lamar co Tx off and on and Push.... or choctaw co OK. so I knew who livedin the areas jack's family lived in . especially pre civl war is when the perkins got there , that was IT then.
here is what I have

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=surnames.perkins&m=1512.1530.1532.1535.1582.1583.1585.1586.1879.188 2

you will have to cut and paste to get to it. but it pretty well tells the story and what I am looking for and why.
I have a document from john thomas , and franck powell perkins, brother of harvey s that gives his dad's name and his grandpa's name as Jesse S Perkins and a civl war references and the name on the papers Jack's aunt has said the name elizabeth crawford, it was the key to finding the family unit, from the net. everything after that family group is from the net.
for Jack's family , I will need some pretty good "proof" for them even to begin belivee they are native americans . Jack's knows it now for sure he has been that at least ALL of his cousion there in texas and southern OK are indian which made it easier for him ot except it. it just wqasn't passed down to them , but his family doesn't know and some won't belive it no matter how much proof I come up with , which for now is just that " all of their family/cousins are claiming to be at least degree's of native blood on their dawes applications is all I have proof of for now>
any help would be appreciated. a saponi cousin , david collins 1850. Bill is there someplace good to read about this indian ridge and who live there in the time frame jack's family was there? renee.

Bill Childs
12-20-2004, 10:09 PM
Renee,
I was just trying to find out if you had researched that Perkins line back to "that" Henry Perkins. I meant no disrepect.

What I need to help you, is what YOU know specifically, in order to trace them back further. So I asked that.
So. I would be glad to help you. Tell me (on forum, or in email) what you have learned of this family's immediate ancestors and I will try to provide some proofs for you.
Bill

naelady
12-21-2004, 01:07 AM
oh
I wasn't thinking any kinda disrespect I just had trouble with understanding just what kinda proof you were talking about.
the only unknown/unverified link in the chain is I have asked if the brother of Ira sons of henry III, James P is a James Powell , their mom is a powell birth dates and place are matches so I am stuck at the assumption that he is a james powell for now . that is the only none proven point in the chain if all is correct in the ancestry gedcom files, they do seem quite thorough for now.
oops a jesse s was a brother of james p also ,
I don't know what you mean by their immediate family , henry I,II, or III or john michael perkins ( jack) and his brother thomas born 1950's and 60's LosAngeles CA. ? as far as henry I, II or II , I only know what they say on the gedcom files about places listed which is currituk co and halifax and indian ridge. I know these are indian places , as these perkins seem to always be in the indian kinda places , but I don't have good enough proof to go to his aunt and brothers and sisters with yet. the names all may or may not be native , but they have all been researched in a whiteish kinda way and that way rarely reveals indian identities unless they know if they are on a roll or signed a treaty someplace.
I have the opposite problem with my cherokee family I have all of their indian names I want their white names and family identities and surnames to locate family in this time . is that what you wanted to know , we don't know anyting else, but what I have stated about them. renee

Bill Childs
12-21-2004, 09:34 AM
NAELADY,
Here is an answer to your question of which Indians lived at Indian Ridge, Currituck Co., NC (now in eastern part of Hyde Co.)

"google" for: indian ridge currituck county

The 1st listing under "Results" is:

Currituck Co., NC Deeds

if you click on that, there are abstracts of Deeds for these people and if you scroll to the very bottom of that page, more info can be found by clicking on "The Mattamuskeet Documents"

Part of the Coree were settled in this area after 1715 so the Mattamuskeet may be a Band of the Coree.

lynellarainhawk
12-21-2004, 08:56 PM
:) Hey Bill! That's pretty interesting! I gotta' get to googling!;)

naelady
12-21-2004, 10:29 PM
Yes thank you thank you sir Bill .
well it looks like this is the same area , that they say henry came from .
and it apears that most of the surnames of the known wives might be native surnames , it was a said day reading about poor john X squires or john S.squires ( it was just too cute an naming things, just hilarious) but poor guy does it say more than 10000 acres for two skins?
ok how would you prove to perkins now that perkins were in that group at that early time frame? renee

naelady
12-22-2004, 02:45 PM
HI bill can you check this out for me?

http://www.lost-colony.com/disappearing.html
while hunting more info I found this . hit me like a brick. one of the things I hunt for is names of things that might give hint to folks names or something.
so try this ? look closely at the name of the watershed where known croatoans lived. can we find out where this name came from? if it is possible that this is the missing link well maybe I should get the lost colony folks some of Jacks DNA just in case they are from that group .
PS cherokee perkins use Perky could that point too. PerQui man renee

Bill Childs
12-22-2004, 10:40 PM
NAELADY,
This could be a line of research to pursue.
At the risk of sounding "preachy", I'd recommend you exercise caution about taking this guy's word for it, tho.

For example.....
Saying that a Massachusettes Indian, transported to NC in 1693, is a link to the 1587 Lost Colony of NC or to the Croatan, without any connecting proof, could be a stretch.... however, I'm not one to say it is not so, I'm only saying that this researcher hasn't proven it to my satisifaction - maybe the researcher just neglected to mention who they married after they got there... but, yes, records are few and far between....

In the same "proceed with caution" category regarding the KEETONs as Headrights, only Mary Keeton is identified specifically as an Indian on those records ("NC Headrights 1663-1744"), not the rest of the Keetons - and there is NO mention of where they were "from" on those abstracts so maybe the researcher was just "filling in the blanks".... a dangerous practice without corraborating evidence.... even tho people of that surname are adequately identified as Indian a hundred and 30-some-odd-years later.
(the original record could contain more information than mentioned in the abstracts, but because other abstracts in this book contain origin info but this one does not, I'd be careful about just accepting this verbatim). Another document referring to the same Headright listing for the Keetons, shows Mary Keeton as "freed" as a result of her entering NC. The researcher's assertion doesn't square with the record.
None of this contradicts the fact that there were specific Indian people in this area by those names, just that this researcher uses too many assumptions and fudges his assertions as facts.
I'm sceptical.
Bill

Bill Childs
12-22-2004, 11:08 PM
NAELADY,
according to the website,

http://www.albermarle-nc.com/hertford/

"Perquimans" , as in Perquimans County, river, etc., means " 'Land of Beautiful Women' named by its earliest inhabitants, the Yeopim Indians."
Bill

naelady
12-23-2004, 11:01 AM
" Weapemeoc Native American Genealogy



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weapemeoc. An Algonquian (?) tribe met by Raleigh's colonists in 1584-89, occupying the territory north of Albemarle Island, N. C., including probably most of what is now Currituck, Camden, Pasquotank, and Perquimans counties. Their chief town, of the same name, seems to have been in Pasquotank county. Other towns apparently in the same jurisdiction were Pasquenock (Pasquotank?), Chepanoc, and Mascoming. They were said then to have 700 or 800 (warriors), under their
chief Okisco. A century later the same territory was occupied by the Yeopim or Jaupim (Weapon-oc?), Pasquotank, Perquiman, and Poteskeet. In 1662 the Yeopim chief sold lands. In 1701, according to Lawson, the other bands still counted 40 warriors, but of the Yeopim only one man survived."

so it looks like it was a algonquin tribe in same area as the yeomin. and had 40 warriors in 1701. so it looks like 40 warriors of these perquimans clan/tribe algonquins exsisted in 1701. that is pretty interesting .

still think it is odd that this place name /clan/ tribe is very simular sounding to their name perky/perkins. and it says in another site that all of the algonquin clans in the area went down to the Mattamuskeet lake in later years .
No I didn't think that perkins was part of the lost colony . but just that this place called Perquiman was part of the whole equation . the DNA was maybe to help them establish more the native male blood lines in the area . or possibly show he has british DNA in the area .
<LOL> jack's brother Tom has to have some connection to that LOng TOM mentioned in the Lake area latter . Tom is 6'5 Ithink and skinny .

lynellarainhawk
12-26-2004, 11:12 AM
:) Hey! I've been following you guys on this and it has been very interesting. So I just wanted to say thank you!:) Love & Light, Lynella.

naelady
12-27-2004, 09:04 AM
howdy guys well I DON"T believe anytribe or people is or will ever Be lost. everyone is here someplace. so it is a matter of figuring out just who went where.

had another thought , actually a name triggered some thing.
ok these algonquin on the piedmont went someplace right? and they are related to or were somewhat related to the Mohawk right?
did these groups go to canada or ohio /PA ? Jacks family has tales of gong north like into ohio or more north before going west they got to texas pre civil war , verified by a Perkins/ zachary/skinner cousins who did large amounts of research on his family, skinner was probably OHio cherokee probably the long long hair clan, my ggrandpa was a ohio skinner ) could all of these events somehow be related to each other? could they have actually been the motivating reason and whom they went with was each other ? most of them seem to be allied on the peidmont by 1700's or so. just some thoughts . some that stayed are probably part of the lumbee, jacks family went to the cherokee/creek or choctaw , I haven't figured that out yet. I figure they might just be following brant/bryant/ maybe even is brent is another spelling of the same name . and would explain alot if it was true. renee perkins

wvaram
12-30-2004, 08:52 AM
Thought I would list my families surnames.

Mothers side: Waid,Whitman,Holley,Harlow,Larkins,Perkins,Parkins ,Rodgers,White,Beard.

Fathers side: Vaughan,George,Robertson,Frazee,Collins,Dean,Ellis on,Nelson,Naylor/Niler,Helmick,Fleisher,and Coots.

naelady
12-30-2004, 10:29 AM
quickly MY my dean was a white DR. they lived in TX-OK Lamar and red river areas, he married a indian I was told these things by cousins and haven' t done too much research. grandma deans name is Paulina ( plyny) Melvina ( melviney. viney )clyney barker Starr Dean. born in Ms . would have registered as MCR if she wouldn't have BURNED the papers.
I am MO collins
john
David Aaron David Aaron David 1850 Grummet MO 2nd daughter with Nancy Zerilda Hopkins, Jemima married robert ross ( cherokee and a few more tribes ) died in AR.both around 1900. kids orpahned and lived with David and second wife Jane collins .

quick notes of some of the other names
1 shoeboots had grandson names Larkin b or D Parrot in TN? could this have something to do with your larkin ?was it supposed to be cherokee?
2long shot , but sense natives change their names alot because they manage to get into trouble well . robert's brother john had daughter who had WADE kids in jackson co AR?.
3robert's sister had child jane white in IN during civil war.
4 can you tell me about the native Nelson family legends ? I think they are related to some one in my family somehow. and you might want to check out the shawnee records for a man named Black Beard for your Beard research.
on the Coots you might want to check out I think it is Cooter a name my Dean family married into I think. might be rooted in coodie/coody/goodie etc renee

Brenda Collins Dillon
12-30-2004, 11:48 AM
Waitman,

Did Archibald Collins marry Margaret COOTS or was it COATS? I have seen it both ways but never really researched further. Any history on her?

Brenda

wvaram
12-30-2004, 02:48 PM
Naelady, I'll have to get back with you on these names. Most are from west virginia/virginia. A few fro kentucky. But, they did spread out so could be that we tie in together. Well get back with you on these names.

wvaram
12-30-2004, 02:55 PM
Brenda, So far I have found the name coots. I was thinking it might be coats but haven't seen it that way yet. I plan on searching more indepth on Archibald collins in the near future. Especially since he lived not to far from where I live. May find some good info on him. I went to the Courthouse today. I found the marriage record for mary cook and james Spencer. It is in marriage book #1-a page 140, The place was crawling with people doing family research so wasn't able to find much else. Well go back when it isen't so crowded. I plan on going to the historical society this week where I can get better information and not be so crowded.

wvaram
12-30-2004, 03:07 PM
Linda, What is the proper way of pronouncing Tutelo? I have been reading about the Tutelo and think that maybe they are the tribe that my people come from. Is it pronounced something like tuckahoe? I know that the white man has a way of butchering Native words. Sorry it has taken me so long to send you a reply. Have been feeling guilty for not responding to your post. My vaughan family goes back to the 1600's in Virginia. They have lived in Culpper ,Spotsyvania I know isn't spelled right, also Amhurst county, etc. The only time my Vaughan's lived outside west virginia/virginia was when Daniel Tarlton Vaughan moved to Pendleton co. Kentucky. His son Tarlton Vaughan moved back to west virginia and we have been here ever since. Just Something about these mountains we can't seem to leave.

LittleDove
05-15-2005, 05:40 PM
Good Day Dreaming Hawk
I am Roberta Dickerson (Little Dove) and am looking for my grandfather who was Marion A Dickerson and my search has led me to you.
I was always told we were Blackfeet Natives but could not make the connection between Montana Blackfeet and my grandfathers people in Indiana, Virginia and North Carolina until I came across this web site and it all makes some sort of sense now.
Do you have a direction for me to go to find my people?
Marion A Dickerson's father was William. His mother was Tempa?
Any direction will help...my grandfather has been lost to us all since 1915 and he haunts my dreams asking me to find him

Little Dove

vance hawkins
05-15-2005, 10:15 PM
Naelady said --

Jacks family has tales of gong north like into ohio or more north before going west they got to texas pre civil war , verified by a Perkins/ zachary/skinner cousins who did large amounts of research on his family, skinner was probably OHio cherokee probably the long long hair clan

-----------

end of quote


reply --

A Cherokee chief named "Long Hair" (his clan is not mentioned) was recorded in Ohio when the Greenville Treaty was signed in 1794/1795. An addendum to the treaty mentions this, and it says these Cherokee on the Scioto River in Ohio agreed to go back to their homeland after they'd harvestd and dried their corn crop. So they had all probably returned to their homes in the Cherokee Nation by mid-fall 1795. Simularly, the Shawnee living in the Cherokee Nation went North to live with the Shawnee (and their allies living with the Cherokee did the same) at the same time. The Cherokee to the South signed a similar treaty about the same time ending for ever United States/Cherokee Wars in the East. This is recorded in American State Papers, Indian Affairs, Volume I.

I don't believe there are any documented Cherokee in Ohio after that date, except perhaps a spouse or individual family that chose to leave the Cherokee Nation.

If you or anyone can find such documentation -- I'm researching this, and would appreciate hearing about it.

thanks

Vance

Bill Childs
05-16-2005, 02:15 AM
Little Dove,
Look in this "Share Genealogy Research" section of the Forum for a New Thread "Marion A. Dickerson".
Bill

techteach
05-16-2005, 07:07 AM
Vance,
This is interesting. The story in my family is that they were Cherokee. They moved there at about that time, late 1700s and early 1800s. They lived near the Scioto in Ohio. However, they came there from PA and WVA, so I have doubted the Cherokee.

Tech

naelady
05-16-2005, 08:17 AM
yuo are right and he is wrong huge family groups moved that way and into other tribes as pacts between the tribes grew so did relations and intermarrages. so hugfe family grouyps of cherokee all moved at teh same time to areas into Oh all the wway out fo MO way before the TOT then at tthe timeof the TOT cherokee ran and went to live with their relatives in Oh and MO and AR. and that circle going down into AL depending on which cherokee family cgroups were married into the chickasaw or choctaw or shawnee or what tribe. but they all were pretty inter- connected by the TOT. renee

mdsmokedancer
05-16-2005, 04:39 PM
Chwe'n,
My fathers line is Dunn,Parker,Daniel,Hicks,Vaughn,Woodard,Forbes,Cha vis,from Northeastern N.C. and Southeastern Va.

My mothers line is Shepherd,Brown,Adkins,Woodhouse,Asbury,from southeast Va.and Northeastern N.C.

Oo-neh
Mike
Joo'-nah-geh'

vance hawkins
05-16-2005, 06:15 PM
Naelady --

you said --

yuo are right and he is wrong huge family groups moved that way and into other tribes as pacts between the tribes grew so did relations and intermarrages. so hugfe family grouyps of cherokee all moved at teh same time to areas into Oh all the wway out fo MO way . . .

reply --

All I respectfully ask for is to see that evidence that will verify your comments, as I am deeply involved in researching this topic.

Can you name the specific "huge family groups" in Ohio and Missouri of which you speak, and as I asked before, can you provide documentation/citation for this evidence?

thank you.

Vance

vance hawkins
05-16-2005, 06:23 PM
Cindy, you said your ancestors were on the Scioto River? Have you seen those maps about the Indian tribes on the Scioto River before the Greenville Treaty 1794/5?

I have copies if you want to see them.

vance

techteach
05-16-2005, 08:53 PM
Vance,
I have seen some, but I do not remember one that placed the Cherokee there. Can you snail mail copies or are they online somewhere that I can see them?

Cindy

techteach
05-16-2005, 09:08 PM
You know, Vance, if my Green/Butt family from near Shepherdstown, WVA were Indian or mixed, depending on the definition of large family groups, they moved the entire family from near Martinsburg, WVA to Licking County, OH beginning in the late 1700s and continuing into the early 1800s. They did not go to MO nor did they run to the Cherokee, if indeed they were and I don't think so, but many went as a large family group on to Iowa. At least one of them did go to Kingfisher, OK later. I even read something on the web site about the history of the Presbyterian Church about the struggle of the church after they left. I do not, however, believe they were Cherokee. I read something that quoted a descendent of a Martinsburg citizen who said there were Tuscorara lodgings there until into the mid-1700s in Martinsburg. Also, I saw something that makes me believe that the Butts might have been Monacan.
Anyway, my point is, if they were Cherokee, they moved to near Columbus in a large family group. The Sinkey/Huston group from PA moved in a family group and joined them in Ohio where they intermarried. I read a book that placed the Cherokee in Dauphin County, PA where this group came from too, but I have never found this information anywhere else.

Techteach

vance hawkins
05-17-2005, 08:47 AM
I guess I have to repost what I originally said

===========================

I don't believe there are any documented Cherokee in Ohio after that date, except perhaps a spouse or individual family that chose to leave the Cherokee Nation.

===========================

please not the last half of that comment -- I said --

except perhaps a spouse or individual family that chose to leave the Cherokee Nation.

============================

End of quote. Many Indian families moved and lived with Whites. These forsook traditional ways and were for the most part, 100 percent assimilated into White culture, went to white churches, et cetera.

Of those who traveled descended from non Cherokee Indians, their own tribes were so small they really couldn't always marry within the tribe.

I have researched much, and have never found a band of Cherokee in Ohio after after 1795, in Missouri after 1811, In Arkansas and Texas it is more murky, as families are found there after the 1846 Arkansas treaty, and after the 1843 Texas treaty. Same with Alabama, Cherokee are on the Tennessee River after the land was ceded -- from Decatur to Muscle Shoals, and appear to still be there. I have never found a single Cherokee town in any verifyable historic document in Kentucky, altho there were hunting parties all over the state.

I found one source that I'd like to research further mentioning that Cheorkee outlaws were sometimes forced to leave the Nation and forced to make do, living in the "hunting grounds", which included Kentucky early on. I'll post the reference later, as well as the Greenville treaty addendum.

Vance

vance hawkins
05-17-2005, 09:13 AM
In 1832 some mixed Negro/Cherokee families moved to Hamilton Co., Indiana, according to William Loren Katz in "The Black West." however they came from North Hampton County, NC, a place no Cherokee lived.

Pat Elder mentions this migration and says "Although many East Tennessee families went to Indiana in the 1830s, so supporting evidence surfaced showing a similar Cherokee migration." and "Since Cherokee was a farmiliar term . . . it appears the term became a catchall describing many Appalachian people with Indian ancestry, Cherokee or not."

There is a more interesting possibility for Scott County, Tn. According to another reference in Ms Elder's Book, "Melungeons, Examining an Appalachian Legend," she cites "Reminiscences of Pioneer days in Scott County, Tennessee" from Cumberland Chronicles in Spring 1904. In 1803 when the first European settlers came there, they found Indians living there. She cites another source as saying these Scott Co, Tn Indians were Cherokree outcasts saying "those who did not conform to the standards of the tribe were banished . . ." from Esther Sharp Sanderson in "County Scott [Tennessee] and its Mountain Folk."

vance

vance hawkins
05-17-2005, 09:30 AM
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwsplink.html#anchor2

Please go to the above website, go to the bottom of page 582 and the top of 583.

It speaks of a "Captain Long-Hair" who is a Cherokee who goes to visit the Cherokee on the Scioto River. It says some left immediately for the Cherokee nation ad the rest remained and hunted until harvest time, and then they too would "quit this [the North side] side of the Ohio forever, and return to their own country."


Vance

naelady
05-17-2005, 10:58 AM
Hi vance
welll that was THE statement which I disputted. Tons of the cherokee were in wv and KY and such for documetation go here and list all of the families and how many had cherokee connections and those are just the ones they recorded as such way back . which doesn't probably cover a 1/4 of the picture.
http://www.shawneetraditions.com/Names.html
if you compile this info into family groups and tribal associations etc etc and look at where these folks actually lborn lived grew up and died. etc etc .
and such you will find how many cherokee and their later family got into ohio and ky and wv etc etc in the first place. then with the TOT many went to live with those relations who had something to share and mos tof them were not in IT . I dont in any way think this makes them less anything. if mos tof fht epeople and the ridge poart alone had to leave IT and nothing about them made them less cherokee . if we want to condemn the ridge part then we will have to condemn all the other nations who had gone just before him and every other nation that moved in the face of white expancsionism as ALLLLLL those tribes sum of 200 yeara t least gave the impression to the white that the indians could be forced to move. and they made sure it continued to happen period.
here in MO in hartville was cherokee in early 1800's later 1700's looneys and all of the surnames that we know are cherokee . it just wan't the tribe. but the rtribe had and continued to not recognize any other treaty or people outside of itself . that didn't mean anything, cherokee exsisted outside of the "nation" in texas and ar and Mo and oh and wv and Ky . they may have picked up other tribes and other people s along the way but they were still indian groups with their own stuctures and identities.
which makes for some intersting thoughts when you consider how even pohatan went to live with neigboring tribes and such . they were all just clans of people trying to get by. . renee

techteach
05-17-2005, 11:14 AM
Which volume on that site, Vance? This is intriguing, given the location of my folks in Ohio and the story of Cherokee in our family. (BTW, I am not criticizing your research. I do not believe they were Cherokee. Stacy sent me a passage from the Heritage database that said a Butt from Martinsburg, WVA, the family that intermarries with both my Greens and Sinkeys and moves with them to the Columbus area, fought in the Revolution's activity with the Shawnee and was "held as a prisoner with the Mocans in the Shawnee towns" and never seen again. Rather a lot like Monacan, isn't it?)
What is interesting about the story of Cherokee (BTW, it was Cherokee Blackfoot for two of us. This was the story that both Deb's side and mine had. We did not know one another until we began researching online together. Still don't. I expect a trip to Iowa soon. We are planning a getting to know one another picnic.) is that it comes from sides of the family that do not connect as siblings for 4 and 5 generations, going back to Ohio and really, coming through the group that came to Ohio from central PA, the Sinkeys. I have a cousin out west whose line of the family continued marrying as Indian and she is recognized by a Northwest tribe. She also had been told Cherokee.


Cindy

vance hawkins
05-24-2005, 10:41 AM
Naelady,

I truly wish I could find documentation -- and I have tried VERY hard to do it.

I couldn't open that shawnee history website. Wish I could have. I'll try again.

you said --

if you compile this info into family groups and tribal associations etc etc and look at where these folks actually lborn lived grew up and died. etc etc . and such you will find how many cherokee and their later family got into ohio and ky and wv etc etc in the first place.

reply --

Would you be willing to take on this project? I once did and got no where. Please do look up the people in question and do the research, as I have. I know the 2 bigest advocates for Cherokee in Ky are Dan Troxell and Dr Tankersley. Troxell admits his ancestor came from Pennsylvania and married a "Princess Cornblossom" whom the Cherokee say never existed, and will tell you there never were any cherokee princesses, and that Cornlossom is NOT a Cherokee name, as corn doesn't bloom, and it would sound silly. I personally traced Tankersley's "Red Bird's" son (Jessee Brock) to Scott Co., Va next to my ancestor Nevil Wayland Sr. -- this was the heart of Melungeon Country, no where near Cherokee country.

I have had trouble DOCUMENTING that any of the isolated groups in Ohio or W Va or Va or even Mo and Ky were Cherokee after the dates I mentioned.

Again, if you have any historic document mentioning that any of these people were Cherokee -- I'm all ears. A newspaper article, a document of any reputable kind, anything. That is what I have to go by. If you can get people to write down their family history and stories and show they came from the Cherokee nation, well some isolated families did. I found NO mass migrration of anyhting resembling a "band" of Cherokee. You have no idea how much research I have put into this, how many people I have asked this same question to -- literally hundreds.

But if you can find it, great. But such evidence is sorely lacking in Chickamauga groups online who make claims they can't back up with proof. I'm hopin I can irritate them enough to put out the research rquired to document their claims, cause they haven't yet.

===========

on another front --

I saw where you thought Tahchee/Datsi/Totsi/ Captain William Dutch migh have been Sequoyah's uncle. There might have been a man recorded as "Tarhcee" (probably the same name as Cherokee never end a syllable with a consonate sound) in an earlier generation who very well might have been an uncle. I have heard of him, but I am not certain he existed, and he definitely was not Capt Dutch, Old settler Chief that I was talking about -- he is mentiond here --

http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/HistoryPage.asp?ID=192

--

where it says --

Sequoyah also had at least two brothers; one was named Tobacco Will who was a blacksmith in Arkansas and also a signer of the Cherokee Constitution. The Old Settler Chief, Dutch (U-ge-we-le-dv), was another brother.

-- end of quote.


Chief Tahchee was often living with the Texas Cherokee, he raided Comanche villages for horses, and Texas towns as well for the same. His actions in fact might have been partially responsible for Texan's attacking the Cherokee and massacreing many.

Tahchee often lived along Red River and was very possible very close to where I live right now, as his signature (along with David Melton's) is on a treaty that was signed about 15 miles North of my home town. The Melton's are related to Doublehead (who lived in N Alabama), and Doublehead was Sequoyah's Uncle. Melton's Bluff in N Alabama on the Tennessee River is named after this family.

Tahchee died in the Canadian district of the Cherokee Nation where he lived. one day when older he went to get on his horse, and it spooked and kicked him in the head and killed him. This was in the 1840s or thereabout. "Dutchess Creek" near the Arkansas River in the Souhtern Cherokee Nation was named after him. This is recorded in "Captain Dutch" by Robert Conley. He was the last TRUE traditional Cherokee Red (war) chief. Stand Waite was never a War chief in the traditional sense.

hope this is helpful.

vance

vance hawkins
05-24-2005, 10:48 AM
Cindy.

go here

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwsplink.html#anchor2

then to Indian affairs, vol. 1. click on "turn to page" and enter 582. Go to the bottom of the page and hte top of the next page.

sorry I thought I had entered it.

vance

techteach
05-24-2005, 12:45 PM
Thanks, Vance,
That is interesting in two respects. The secretary who signed the treaty has a form of one of my names. It gave me another form to look for.

Cindy

naelady
05-24-2005, 03:32 PM
hi Vance
I write you long letters with clue in it but I am not comfortable with saying too much. I just won't do it.

http://www.shawnee-traditions.com/Names.html

this ite has lots of clues you will have to work through for yourself.

Ok clue one. to get you started.................

dragging canoe was a half brother to nionee's kids, DC's mom was a servant. possible/probable slave. this may put a whole new color to your equations. making those you claim to be negroe/ cherokee mentioned earlier going into Ky and tN the ones that now probably the ones that seem to be calling themselvs the Chickamauga. and that you are writing off as insignificant. may not be so insignificant .... even with that I said too much. and with it change people's undeerstanding of who they are, thus making these things , things I do not wish to do. they were indian , heart and soul and no one should take that from them then or now. . sorry I can't help more. ,

but a little humility wouldnt' hurt some of them today either .............they can be quite the stinkers , brutal and nasty to deal with ... just stinkers...... ....but they come by that naturally hum?? it is in their blood. <LOL> apples dont' fall far from a tree. lots of clues at the shawnee site , lots more clues at other tribes history sites .......... have fun. just think BIGGER , bigger confederecies etc. just bigger. . renee

quest for facts
06-01-2005, 11:46 PM
this is my family out of north carolina......Moore, Etheridge, Taylor, Robbins these are the ones we know are Sioux...Rogers, Pridgen, Amoson are believed to be white...
Linda

Tracy Haywood
06-02-2005, 02:23 PM
These are my family surnames

Mothers side
EVANS, COLLINS,BENNETT,MCDANIELL

Fathers side,
HARRIS, MORGAN

mrspatino
06-03-2005, 10:40 AM
Catherine (Caty) Ann Shope/Shoup b. 1852-Ohio
- Her parents William Shope-Ohio
Mary Emmons b. 1830-Ohio
- Mary Parents: Joel Emmons b. 1754 VA
Phebe Stratton b. 1801 NJ
-Joel Emmons Parents-
Serinus Emmons b. abt 1754 VA
Jane Frances b. abt 1769 VA


I will have more later

mrspatino
06-03-2005, 01:01 PM
William Colley/Colly wrote M for Race on Cencus and claims Ohio as his home.
Elizabeth? his wife writes W for Race and is from Georgia, have not been able to locate a last name for her.

Daughter Suponia Alice Colley b. abt 1857 d. 1891( My G G G gma)
Have seen it written(Sophia, Supora, Suppora, Suponia) he siblings: Margaret, Mary, Mayora, Clarrisa-may also have second name of Susan.

No relation as far as I know other than Marriage.

Another Grandma Ancestor abt. Mary Little who Married Joseph Garfield; excerpt from book HISTORY of Wyandot County, Crane TWP pg 590, Para 2, 6th sentence.

He came to Upper Sandusky in 1849 and was married in the same city, june 19, 1850 to Mary Little, Daughter of David and Ann M. (Hoke) Little, a native of Canton, Ohio, born August 15th 1825.

I have something some where that says David and Ann were in Adams CTY PA around 1813

Garfield-Little Marriage Children
Genevera, David, Lewis, Alexis, Amanda, William.

My Father recalls stories of either his Great Aunt Amanda or Aunt Goldie (Amandas daughter) that they could not get her to leave the rez, but know one knows what rez and those who did have long been passed.

lynellarainhawk
06-05-2005, 11:23 PM
Dreaminghawk and All,

It sure is good to see folks are still plugging their surnames into this list. I just thought I'd pull my head out and see how this was going! Love & Light, Lynella. P.S, Dreaminhawk, thank you for the e-mail. E me any time. I miss ya'!;)

techteach
06-06-2005, 06:06 AM
L:
I am so glad to hear from you again, cuz. Hope things are going well.
BTW, seems that there are lots of Suttons on the genealogy that my cousin sent me, not in my direct line, but living and intermarrying in Jackson County, IA.

Techteach

saj
06-06-2005, 09:24 AM
Lynella,
My cuz too! I can't even explain what it feels like to see you here again and not just on those older posts. You stay right here with us, yes?!.!!:) :) :) :) :) :) Saj

lynellarainhawk
06-06-2005, 09:35 AM
Sue & Tech.,

;) YES! I also had a couple of names to add to the list on mom's side. I don't think I listed them earlier. They are, Tibbs and Welty. I know Kerry mentioned another one, but It's escaped me for now! Love & Light, Lynella.

roca
06-08-2005, 06:38 PM
These are my known names.

Father's side:Carter,Banks,Braxton, Taylor.(Essex,Middlesex,King William CO's,
VA)

Mother's side: Nightengale/Nightingale,Carey/Cary,Smith,Jones,Green,Winn/Wynn.
(Albemarle,Fluvanna,Fairfax CO's,VA)

Roca

naelady
06-08-2005, 10:51 PM
attacullculla , Boyd , Brooks,, ( Barker/?Bark) Brackeen/Bracheen Beauchamp,Boots ,( Bryant/Brant or Hendricks), Bull/Turnbull, Barnes Carter, Clayton, Collins , (Cliney) , Childers, Day, Dean, Gore,Hardwick,Hazel, Ellis , Flatt, Goslin, Hopkins Hill , Jordon, Jeffress, Lewis, LeComte,Lodge, Klien, McClaren, Mc Dade, Mcfarland, Missey/ Massey , , Moytoy, Mossman, Northcut,
Posting, Padfield, Roden/Redden, Ross (Ransom) 3x Smith, (Sims) , Sturgeon, Shearman,Shoeboots , Stone, Skinner, , Shiner. ( Starr) , terry/ferry, Tadlock/Tatlocke, 3x Walker .


Jack's surnames - in progress

Allen , brent , Baldwin, Blackstone, Bashero Perkins, Carter ,Cooper, 2x Crawford, Cotton, Dupri, Ferebee, Frances, Ethridge, Easley,Foreman (leah) ( libias),,Powell, Perkins, Parker, (hardin) , Johnson , Simmons, Lacey, Knight,
Wherry, Very, Zachary ( midle names or single unknown names)

in my line I am not sure which are and aren't native. 3 of my 4 great where native women, abt 1/2 bloods.. most men grandpas had some blood, varied degrees or unknow amounts.
oh on the perkins Jack said he remembered a stroy his dad told him he doesn't know if it is true or not . but I have a tendencyto belive family stories I that most of the stroy will prove to be true.

the story went that 4 perkins brothers came from england to early james town . two went north and one went south of james twon One went back to england ............ his line was from the one who went south. so we will have to do Dna and find out if it is english ............. we know at somepoint they were marrying native women, around Halifax maybe in Perquimans

vance hawkins
06-09-2005, 01:21 AM
Thanks Naelady,

you said --

I write you long letters with clue in it but I am not comfortable with saying too much. I just won't do it.

========================

Please know my family is an open book. All the surnames I know of on my dad's side, have posted here at one location or another.

===================

you said --

http://www.shawnee-traditions.com/Names.html

this site has lots of clues you will have to work through for yourself.

reply --

thanks, right now i have no time. I have my own research projects. If this is important to you i suggest you work through it, as I have done more times than I care to remember. I believe my argument was many people who believe they have Cherokee blood really have the blood of other tribes and not Cherokee. Shawnee is one of those tribes . . .

you said --

dragging canoe was a half brother to nionee's kids, DC's mom was a servant. possible/probable slave.this may put a whole new color to your equations. making those you claim to be negroe/ cherokee mentioned earlier going into Ky and tN the ones that now probably the ones that seem to be calling themselvs the Chickamauga.

reply --

How do you know that Dragging Caone's mother was a slave? Where is this documented?

I have never in my life claimed anyone to be a "Negro-Cherokee". have never said that. I have seen people from Ohio to Florida, from the Atlantic Coast to California, claim to be Chickamauga-Cherokee. The Chickamauga Confedercy consisted mostly of Cherokee, Creek, and Shawnee, and Tories in the early days, and at its height consisted of peraps 1,000 warriors.

After the wars covering the mid 1770s through the mid 1790s, these Indians returned to their own families and tribes, and did ot move to live with the whites, except as I said for the few who did marry whites.

Some left the Cherokee Nation with the Reservation Rolls, and others who signed with the Emigration Rolls (both rolls after @ 1818) left too for Arkansas. These things are recorded in historic documents.

you said --

this may put a whole new color to your equations. making those you claim to be negroe/ cherokee mentioned earlier going into Ky and tN the ones that now probably the ones that seem to be calling themselvs the Chickamauga. and that you are writing off as insignificant. may not be so insignificant . may not be so insignificant .... even with that I said too much. and with it change people's undeerstanding of who they are, thus making these things , things I do not wish to do.

reply --

I never have written off anyone as "insignificant". I have said there were no "bands" of Chickamauga roaming free hiding out for 200 years. I don't have a clue who the people you say are -- "cherokee mentioned earlier going into Ky and tN the ones that now probably the ones that seem to be calling themselvs the Chickamauga" -- are. Can you provide me with surnames, dates and locations of their time in Ky and Tn? Thanks. That information will tell us if they might have been descended from the Cherokee or not.

Dragging Canoe never settled in Ky and neither did Doublehead. Their real lives are recorded and are well documented. They raided into Ky, but never lived there.

The Chickamauga towns wre all near Chatanooga, Tn. Chief Watts, after Dragging Canoe's death @ 1792, moved them further south into N Al. and many descendants of the Chickamauga are found on the Tennesse River with Doublehead's Village in orthern Lawrence County at one pont, he even had land in Lauderdale County, with really was closer to other Chickasaw settlements than Cherokee. But he was killed a hiwassee near James Vann's home, near the Moravian and Presbyterian missions in 1807. The lands in Lawrence County, Al were ceded @ 1818 from both the Cherokee and the Chickasaw.

you said --

but a little humility wouldnt' hurt some of them today either .............they can be quite the stinkers , brutal and nasty to deal with ... just stinkers...... ....but they come by that naturally hum?? it is in their blood. apples dont' fall far from a tree.

reply --

who are you talking about?

There are good and bad in all races, regions, and "blood".

you said --

lots of clues at the shawnee site , lots more clues at other tribes history sites .......... have fun. just think BIGGER , bigger confederecies etc. just bigger. . renee

reply --

Renee,

Dragging Canoe visited Pensacola several times seeking weapons from the Spanish and the Brittish. His 2 known brothers travelled to Detroit at least twice seeking the same. The Chickamauga Confederacy included shawnee, Upper Creek and many Tories as well(at least up until the end of the Am. Rev. Their home base was near present day Chattanooga, Tn. he Chickamauga were also known as the Lower Cherokee. The Upper Cherokee and Lower Creek were opposed to this war and sided with the settlers.

Other tribes, principly the Miami, Kickapoo, Delaware, Shawnee, Wea, Sac & Fox, and others -- those tribes based on the Scioto River in Ohio, were part of the "Northwards Indians" that are mentioned in American State Papers, Indian Affairs vol 1 during this same time frame. All these tribes were at war off and on frm the 170s until the various treaties ending this round of wars were signed @ 1794 and 1795. These 2 groups were in alliance. These tribes roamed through Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee, West Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia. They are found as far west as the mouth of the Tennessee and Ohio Rivers and ventured into Spanish Missouri, Arkansas, Louisania and Texas even, eventually. But these were raids or visits to gain support and ammunition. They tried to enlist the support of the Chickasaw and Choctaw, but these tribes never fully were involved in the conflic, altho 2 Chickasaw villages somewhat supported the Chickamauga, hte vast majority sided with the White settlers. he Chickasaw and Choctaw were less trusting of the Spanish, hence their hesitancy and preferrence for the Virginians (what they often called the Caucasians of Tennessee).

So altho these tribes ranged far and wide, they always returned home to their families and relatives in a few communities. Had Chickamauga lived amongst the white communities of the Cumberland the local whites would have killed them, period. Only what were termed "friendly" Indians (friendly to the settlers) would have been allowed there, and the Chickamauga certainly were not friendly -- not until after 1795 or thereabout.

At the time of the 1838 removal there was a district of the Cherokee Nation called "Chickamauga" which shows that they still lived with the majority of the Cherokee, except those who ere already removed to S Mo, Arkansas, or NE Tx., who were recorded as having done so ijn many many documents.

vance

naelady
06-20-2005, 12:46 AM
HI Vance .......
Vance why dont' you work with Mr green at that shawnee site he will understand the complexity of the problem......... also check out what is known of where shoeboots / otherwise known as turtle at home's older sons are known to be or lived. his Kids are NOT IN the nation in 1824 he states that very clearly in cherokee council.............. so where are they? his oldest or most famous son is in ky or TN...... and so did he ( shoeboots) get a reserve ? of coarse he did..... probably more than one knowing my grandpa................. word has it that he liked to sign things with the whites........ as many times as he could get by with............. a reserve where? obviuosly wherever his kids are ... which isn't in cherokee territory. does that make them less cherokee somehow for them going to their dads and uncles and cousins lands .................... I dont' t think it would ............ also as far as what other may call them .................. my 4 th great grandma from shoebots and dolly passes as white in 4 states . she is 1/2 black........... how much more so are shoeboots kids from a white woman going to pass as whites in anywhere they go. isn't it great how those reserves worked ... they seperated headmens family from the tribe and even to this day those people are veiewed as suspect indians. old barks family is in TN check out barkers. mcfarland .................. as is shoeboots oldest kids born 1775 to 17 abt 94 or when he went to live with the shawnee . Thus after Orr distroyed the towns ................... he seems to have possibly left his wife there . green will tell you about some suspect widows that are most likely related to my family somehow. and then he came back too cherokee lands with just Clarinda. and tehcumseh and many others seemed to have followed closely behind him to go live at running water. Tehcumsey white name is most likely in cherokee records as William Bayless........... or this is a brother ........... .. etc.
there is just soo much that has been forgotten that it isn't going to be possible to put it all back , it won't happen . the most proof , or the kinda proof you require ............. thus "..proof" you seek is at that shawnee site and at boards of surnames found at that site.
renee

quest for facts
06-23-2005, 07:38 PM
HI Everyone,
Just thought I'd list my surnames for 1700-1800's. This is my mother's direct line:
Amerson,Ruffin,Rogers,Bryant,Barnes,Hodges,Ethered ge,Pridgen,Moore,Batchelor,Robbins, Price,Horn, Moonaham, Sessums, Jones, Proctor and Bullock.
My father's direct line:

Davenport, Everett, Little

Also my 5th great grandfather married a woman named Mary(no surname) but they named one of their sons Ransom which was completely out of the normal naming patterns. He was the first Ransom there have been several since then but he was the first.
Could Ransom have been his mothers surname?

My Indian family stories come from my mother's line. We are from North Carolina. Wilson, Nash, Edgecombe and Halifax counties.
Linda

webduck
06-24-2005, 02:40 AM
I believe it is through my husband father's side of the family that there might be some connection to the Saponi. This is what I have on the line I am speaking about:

Descendants of Joshua Ripley

1 RIPLEY, Joshua b: Abt. 1790
.. +COREY, Rhoda b: Abt. 1790
.. 2 RIPLEY, Joseph Source1: 1850 Linn Co, IA Fed census, Source2: 1850 United States Federal Census, Source3: 1860 United States Federal Census, Source4: Indiana Marriages, 1802-1892, Source5: Indiana Marriages, 1802-1892 b: 06 Mar 1810 in Sodus Twp, Ontario Co, NY d: 22 May 1879 in Fremont Co., IA
...... +SUTTON, Laura Ann Source1: Indiana Marriages, 1802-1892, Source2: Indiana Marriages, 1802-1892 b: Abt. 1811 in NY m: 22 Jul 1830 in Jefferson County, IN src: MCELROY, Sharon d: in IA
...... 3 [1] RIPLEY, Amos Joshua Source1: 1870 United States Federal Census, Source2: 1910 United States Federal Census, Source3: 1890 Veterans Schedules b: 06 Apr 1832 in Gallia, OH src1: 1900 United States Federal Census, src2: 1880 United States Federal Census, src3: OneWorldTreeSM d: 14 Nov 1914 in McPherson, NE
.......... +HOWE, Melissa Jane Source: OneWorldTreeSM b: Apr 1854 in Barry, MI src: OneWorldTreeSM d: 23 Mar 1921 in Sunnyside, Yakima, WA src: OneWorldTreeSM
...... *2nd Wife of [1] RIPLEY, Amos Joshua:
.......... +SUTTON, Huldah Sophia Source: OneWorldTreeSM m: 21 Nov 1856 in Floyd, IA
...... 3 RIPLEY, Roxalana Source: 1850 United States Federal Census b: 1834 in OH d: 1856 in Floyd, IA
.......... +TAYLOR, John m: 18 Nov 1854 in Floyd County, IA
...... 3 RIPLEY, Mary Ellen Source1: MACBEAN, Clan Register, Family #4101, Source2: 1850 United States Federal Census, Source3: 1860 United States Federal Census, Source4: 1900 United States Federal Census, Source5: 1870 United States Federal Census, Source6: 1880 United States Federal Census b: 04 Apr 1842 in OH src1: MACBEAN, Clan Register, Family #4101, src2: 1880 Chickasaw County, IA census, src3: 1900 United States Federal Census d: 17 May 1916 in Bradford, Chickasaw, IA
.......... +BEAN, Richard Rufus Source1: BEAN, Richard R. CW Pension Application, Source2: 1910 United States Federal Census, Source3: 1860 United States Federal Census, Source4: 1880 United States Federal Census, Source5: 1870 United States Federal Census, Source6: 1900 United States Federal Census b: 18 Sep 1838 in St. Lawrence, NY src1: BEAN, Richard R. CW Pension Application, src2: 1880 United States Federal Census, src3: 1900 United States Federal Census m: 15 Jun 1861 in Floyd County, IA src: BEAN, Richard R. CW Pension Application d: 18 Mar 1928 in Nashua, Chickasaw, IA src: DOSE, Anna Luella Bean, POB, 264, Plainfield, IA 50666
...... 3 RIPLEY, Charles H. b: 12 Aug 1845 in Gallia, OH d: 27 Dec 1920 in Gage, NE
.......... +CRUMB, Marietta m: 15 Jul 1866 in Floyd County, IA
...... 3 RIPLEY, Eliza A. b: 06 Feb 1846 in OH d: 09 Oct 1928 in Chickasaw Co, IA
.......... +UMPHREY, John
...... 3 RIPLEY, Cynthia Ann b: 1849 in IA

lynellarainhawk
06-24-2005, 10:01 AM
Dear Quest and Webduck,

Thank you for adding your surnames! I have Hodges and Sutton. My mother's side and she came from Indiana. My grandmother's name was Nora Sutton. I have some Sutton info. if ya' want, e-mail me. I also have a little on a couple of Hodges. Bill has some hodges info. Again, Thank you. Love & Light, Lynella.;)

Bob White
06-25-2005, 08:18 AM
My family is from Chilhowie Va. The White family. I think the Blackfoot is from my Grandmother family,(Richardson or Fouse).
The Richardson's are from Grayson & Ashe county area. My Aunt say's the Blackfoot comes from my Great Grandmother Jane Fouse. My Grandma Katie Lou White(Richardson), look 100% Native American.

lynellarainhawk
06-25-2005, 07:11 PM
Bob,

Hi! Fouse sounds familiar to me. Have you used the search button on here to see if there is anything on here about them? I know I've heard that somewhere. Love & Light, Lynella.

webduck
06-25-2005, 07:36 PM
Joseph RIPLEY was born in Sodus Twp, Ontario Co, NY; his wife Laura Anna Sutton, d/o David and ?? was also born in NY. They married in 1830 in Jefferson County, IN and from there, migrated to Gallia County, OH and were living there from about 1832 to 1849 when their youngest child (that we know of) was born in Iowa. So, the migration for this family (so far) was from NY to OH, to IA. They settled in Floyd county, IA, and some in Chickasaw Co., IA.

I really believe it is through the Ripley/Sutton line that any Native American blood was introduced.

quest for facts
06-25-2005, 08:00 PM
Naelady,
My Husband has Terry's in his line and I have Etheridge's. My Etheridge's are from Edgecombe, Wilson and Halifax counties in North Carolina. Terry's in My husband's line were in Bedford County TN in the 1800's. In Halifax county NC before that. If you want more info I'll be glad to share what I know.
Linda

Searcher
07-09-2005, 10:31 AM
Maternal Surnames out of Louisa Co, Va: Hughes, Waddy

Norman P Banks

rsmith0127
07-14-2005, 02:43 AM
Hi Everyone!
Just wanted to get my surnames on here. Both of my parents were born and raised in Eastern Tennessee. Their ancestors have been here since Jamestown and have migrated mainly through VA and NC into TN.

My dad's direct lines: SMITH, BEATY, GARRETT, BOWDEN, FLOWERS, BURTON, BERNARD, CASEY/CAYCE, CROCKETT, ALLEN, & TUCKER.

My mom's direct lines: LYNN, HUMPHREYS, BOLING, GAMBLE, GARNER, MUNSEY, HICKS, JOBE/JOB, MACKAY, DEATHERAGE, APPERSON/EPPERSON, JOLLY, LEWIS, TUTEN, CARR, NORTH, DENTON, and DICKSON.

If anyone thinks they might have a connection, email me at: rsmith0127@yahoo.com

Thanks!

Ron Smith

vance hawkins
07-14-2005, 05:15 AM
Hodwy Ron,

You mentioned East Tennessee. I have Mary Dickson m. John Woods and Nancy Dickson m. James Woods (The Wood's boys are brothers, and we believe the 2 Dickson girls are sisters), both marriages taking place in the early 1790s, and most likely in/near Blount County, Tn.

Were your Dickson's in or near that County at that time? Unfortunately the census for that time frame no longer exists I was told, but I found other records.

Vance

Lee Harkrader
07-14-2005, 12:13 PM
Father - Native Panamanian

Mother - Dameron - Castle - Frazier - Herod - Blevins - Standridge

Owl - Jones - Wilkerson - Wolf Clan Mollie.

Some names that married into these are; Meeks - Blaylock - White

Paden - Goins - Allen

these lines are from Nick - O - Jack on the Tenn. River 1817
Emmigration rolls - Cherokee Old Settler's most ended up in
the Deleware District Indian Territory.

The Damerons and Castle - Owl - Short- from Ky to White Oak OK

Lee Harkrader

mdsmokedancer
07-14-2005, 12:30 PM
There are Owle surname in Cherokee, my son goes to college with some at Western Carolina University.
Oo-neh
Mike

rsmith0127
07-14-2005, 06:42 PM
Hi Vance!
Great to hear from you. My Dickson's were in that very area of East TN. You can access my database at this URL: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=rsmith0127&id=I22393

I'm tied into the Dickson's in two different areas on my mom's side -
1. My 3g-grandfather, James Lynn b. c. 1785 married a Nancy Dickson, b. c. 1810 on Sep 10, 1836 in Roane Co., TN

2. Almeda "Ally" Dickson, b. 1780 in NC whose parents were John Dickson, b. c. 1760 and Rebecca ???. She married Zachariah Tuten, b. c. 1766 in NC or SC.

Let me know if we are related or you tie in somewhere.

Ron

searching1
07-23-2005, 10:42 PM
i have just become a forum member. i hope listing my surnames will help find new cousins.
FATHERS SIDE: SHEPHERD, COLLINS, DAVIDSON, BEGLEY, STEVENS,NAPIER. KY, N.C., VA.
mothers side has no native american at all that i can find.

vance hawkins
07-24-2005, 12:00 AM
Hi Ron --

How are you?

My Mary Dickson married John Woods and had my g-g-g-grandma in @ 1795 or 6. That means she would have been born at least by 1775, most likely. So she might be an older sister of yours, or perhaps a cousin.

Do you know where in NC Almeda was born, or who her brothers and sisters were, or where her parents lived?

vance

Premierepearl08
07-28-2005, 03:16 AM
Greetings, all! Here is my information:

Dad - Hillian, Merriman, Owen, Streater, Chavers (Chavis?)

Mom - Parsons, Flowers, Carraway


All of these names belong to people who shuttled between Anson Co. and Chesterfield Co. with the exception of the Chavers; I'm not sure where she came from...yet. God bless!

quest for facts
07-28-2005, 06:35 PM
Hi Everyone,
For years we have been looking for the wife of Caleb Etheredge, we now have reason to believe her name was Sally Thrower. Her father was Thomas Thrower. It appears they came to Edgecombe County from Surry (which this area today is Dinwidde County). He owned land on the Nottoway River. I have not been able to get the lineage on this family but I do have some names of people that lived around them. Some of them lived by them in Surry and Edgecombe counties meaning they probably moved together. The names are Lewis, Jones, Simonds, Matthews, Adkeson, Evans, Hill, Davis, Clark and Walker. Oh and Bird. Does anyone here have any info on any of these families? And the district they lived in Edgecombe County later became Halifax County. They showed up in Edgecombe county around 1750 and were still in Va. in the 1730's and 1740's. Thomas Thrower's property bordered Aaron Etheredge and he is Caleb's father. Caleb and his brother Abel witnessed Thomas Thrower's will in 1784 and Sally is listed in the will as Sally Etheredge. Abel married Sally McClain and we have the wives on all the other Etheredge men. IF anyone can help we would appreciate it.
Linda

BlondeyeLaurie
11-22-2005, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by walkswithwolves
hi,
my surnames:
jack ......b. abt 1735 in buncombe co,nc
john cole.. b.1760 in buncombe co,nc ...d. 1862 lawrence co,ky
he married cuzzie anderson...b. abt 1760.....d. abt 1833,ky
william cole ...b. 1791 in lincoln co,nc ..d.1885 magoffin co,ky
he married biddy (obedience) collins....b. abt 1800/04 madison co,ky..d.abt 1839 in magoffin co,ky

Hello Walks: ) I also have your exact ppl/line on my tree also...if you wish to compare info and merge some connections....please feel free to post here or email me...the COLE surname is rampant in my maternal lines and I have some neat old pics and docs and lots of marriages and children for oodles of them too! Hope to chat anon. Blessings~~~~Laurie

vance hawkins
11-22-2005, 06:51 PM
Coles in McGoffin Co are mentioned in tht dissertation "Whose your People" found online. The author of it was descended from some Coles whom he claimed were Cherokee. The author was Dr. Richard Allen Carlson. It was submitted to Michigan State U in 2003, Department of Anthropology.

vance

BlondeyeLaurie
11-22-2005, 09:16 PM
Hey Vance....thanks for the reply...I did in fact purchase the Carlson dissertation and found it very interesting and chock full of "leads" about numerous surnames in my maternal lines....which ultimately led to my phoning him in Michigan...we spoke at some length about my Nichols and Gibson specifically....being as State/Statan/Stanton Nichols and his wife Nancy Jane Gibson are our "brick wall" and moving above them just has not happened...Richard said that he had just oodles of Native American applications that he used both for his dissertation and his area of current employ and it is our combined hope that some of our answers lie in those....many of which I have not reviewed (they tend to get right expensive when you order this one and that) for ppl that MAY not even be your exact ancestor! It was his dissertation that led me to this forum...he recommended I, in his absence look into researching both the Saponi and Monocan tribes and that I have done for the past month or so now. He and I plan on phone conferencing moreso to TRY and "get to the bottom" of my State Nichols/Nancy Gibson line. He mentioned to me that he has far more data/info about numerous "Magoffin Indian" family surnames than either time, space or subject restraints would allow for when he penned his dissertation and said he would readilly share with me what he has when we next speak...he said too that I was the first State Nichosl descendant that he has spoken directly with and he would just love to solve that "mystery"...which was music to my ears I must say with glee! As a footnote for other Nichols and allied surname researchers: the Nichols name MAY have had it's origins in VA (particularly Amhearst and Rockbridge Counties) in the surname KNUCKLES....this I gleened from a gal at the Monocan Society when we spoke....worth investigating to say the least. Best of luck to all~~~~Laurie

louise1024
05-21-2006, 11:59 PM
:p Hi I am a direct descendent of William Daniel Brackeen, his daughter name was Belzora Elizabeth or Melzora Elizabeth, she was my gggrandmother, I am trying to find out info on her and am not having much luck. Thought maybe you could help me out. I know that she married a boyd in 1883, she had my ggrandmother in 1881. Problem is none of the Brackeens will tell me about her. All I get is you will find out when all the ones that don't want you to know is dead and gone. I know that she died sometime around 1888 or 1886 but find no record I don't even know where she is buried. The reason I am so ignorant to this is because I just found out about 10 years ago that I am a brackeen. My family comes from Delta county Texas, and Lamar county Texas. I can find any thing I want on her 3 brothers, but she has just dissapeared. I don't understand why people would keep this info to themselves all I want to know is where I have come from. I was also told that she was indian, can't prove it because I really don't know her name or what happened to her after 1860 that is the only census I can find on her after that she just is gone. hope you can help I am getting very desperate here and so is the rest of my family
Louise

BlondeyeLaurie
05-22-2006, 11:37 AM
Good Morning Louise....I recieved your queary and did a wee bit of "digging"...your Belzora/Melzora is still a bit of a mystery to me (and you I'm sure) but what I did locate was the following:
1. James Madison Brackeen (b: 12 Jun 1812 TN*this date is questionable, see below* and d: 16 Oct 1887 TX) wife previously UNK, elluded to be perhaps Eliza MNU...I located a PAF for a nam of the exact same name and exact same death date as being the son of a Reverend William Goslin Brackeen & Leatha Elsey nee Wheeler....his DOB differed but his DOD remained the same...he purportedly married a Miranda Shelton. <I'll post the entire PAF with it's link at the end of this post.>
2. Issue: William Daniel Brackeen (b: 25 nov 1835 TN) married a Melvinia Armstrong...the TX marriage index indicated him as Wm. D. Brackeen and she as Melvina nee Armstrong and they md. on 24 Jul 1856 in Lamar Co, TX.
3. In 1860...I located a Lamar Co, TX census listing: Wm. Brackain (spelling variation)...he was listed as 23, b: in TN with his wife indexed and listed as Malvina, age 27, b: TN along with children: Belzora (2, TX) and Wm. (1, TX).
4. In 1880, I located them in Fannin Co, TX as such: Wm., Malvinia, and sons: Shelby & James...indexed as Brackeen. Belzora/Melzora was not in teh HH, but a 36 yr old Mel. Moody was a servant and her son was livng with them as well.
5. In 1900 I located a census in Delta Co, TX...this was the HH of the son William Elonzo....he was listed as William and his wife and 7 children were in the HH as well as his now WD mother, listed as Melvilie, shown to be born in Apr 1830 in TN.
6. I located what MAY be your Belzora/Melzora's husband (John C. Boyd's service info by locating a 1890 Veteran's Schedule in TX...it lists him as having been a Private in Company D, 114 PA<?> having served from May 20, 1862 until May 1866, serving 3 years and 20 days, this census is from Camp Co, TX.
7. In 1900 in a Delta Co, TX census I noted a John C. Boyd with what may have been a 2nd wife by the name of Martha S. MNU and their 5 children...they having been married for 10 years.
The PAF I located on the Reverend's family can be located at URL:
http://www2.1starnet.com/cgenzel/thomassha/pafg07.htm

The information on your line reads as follows (quote):
"260. Miranda Shelton (Rachel Marrs , Anna A. Shannon , Samuel , Thomas ) was born on 9 Feb 1814 in Miller County, Arkansas. She died in 1846 in Lamar County, Texas.

Miranda married James Madison Brackeen son of William Goslin Brackeen Rev. and Leatha Elsey Wheeler in 1839 in Ft. Shelton, Lamar County, Texas. James was born on 2 Jan 1811 in Lebanon, Tennessee. He died on 16 Oct 1887 in Paris, Lamar County, Texas. He was buried in Evergreen Cem., Paris, Texas.

NAME: BIRTH: DEATH:
James Madison Brackeen 2 Jan 1812 16 Oct 1887
CEMETERY: LOCATION IN CEMETERY:
Evergreen 11-04-02
NOTES:
James married Miranda Shelton. Buried next to Sarah Marshall Brackeen.*From Probate Book M1 in the Lamar County Clerk's office, transcribed byMary Claunch Lane: Page 62; February Term, 1842; Be it remembered that onthe 28th day of Feby. A.D. 1842 there was began and held a regular Termof the Honorable Probate court in the Town of Lafayette in and for thecounty aforesaid. Present and presiding the Honorable John A. Rutherford,Judge, John R. Craddock, Clerk and W. R. Brown, Sheriff. When courtappeared according to law proceeded to the dispatch of business. *Page66; Jas. M. Brackeen vs. G. G. (should be W. D.) Brackeen, Minor.Petition for letters guardianship. This day Jas. M. Brackeen presentedhis petition praying letters of guardianship of his son G. G. (W.D.)Brackeen, minor heir of said Jas. M. Brackeen who is now in saidcounty of Lamar County and being entitled to an estate without the limitsof said Republic and it becoming necessary for a guardian to be appointedfor said minor G. G. (W. D.) Brackeen before he can obtain said estateand his father Jas. M. Brackeen being a suitable person to take chargeand custody of the person and estate of said minor it is thereforeordered and decreed by this court that letters of guardianship issue tosaid James M. Brackeen and the same be certified to by the Clerk of thiscourt Jas. M. Brackeen together with William Brackeen and Jas. R.G.Wortham his securities and entered into bond in the penal sum of $1,000for the faithful performance of th duties incumbent upon him as guardianaforesaid who severally acknowledged the same. Issued 11th March 1842A.D. *G.G. should be W. D. for William Daniel Brackeen

The children of James Madison Brackeen and Miranda Shelton were born inAtlas, Texas

* ATLAS, TEXAS. Atlas is at the intersection of Farm roads 2036 and 137,five miles northeast of Roxton and five miles southwest of Paris in southcentral Lamar County. It was founded in 1884 when the Texas-MidlandRailroad began to use a local rock quarry to obtain ballast. Railroadowner Edward H. R. Greenqv is credited with naming the quarry and thepost office Atlas, for the character in Greek mythology who supported theworld. The first postal facility opened in 1884. By 1890 Atlas had twentyresidents, two cotton gins, and a general store. I. H. Hughes hadestablished a law practice. A triweekly stagecoach ran to Paris andCooper; the fare was twenty-five and fifty cents respectively. The stagealso delivered the mail. By 1896 a local common school district enrolledseventy students and employed one teacher. In 1914 the population wasfifty, and the town had a new cotton gin and a telephone exchange. In1929 Atlas had a population of seventy-six. Maps for 1936 showed a cottongin, two stores, the school, and a church. The postal service wasdiscontinued in 1943. In 1947 the population peaked at 120, and fourbusinesses were in operation. In 1949 Atlas had fifty people and twobusinesses. By 1957 no businesses were left, and schoolchildren attendedthe Roxton schools. The population of Atlas remained at fifty throughoutthe 1960s, decreased to forty by 1970, and was reported as twenty in1974. Maps for 1984 showed a church and a few scattered dwellings. Thetown had twenty inhabitants in 1990.

BIBLIOGRAPHY: Thomas S. Justiss, An Administrative Survey of the Schoolsof Lamar County with a Plan for Their Reorganization (M.A. thesis,University of Texas, 1937). Fred Tarpley, 1001 Texas Place Names (Austin:University of Texas Press, 1980).


Vista K. McCroskey

The Handbook of Texas Online is a joint project of The General Librariesat the University of Texas at Austin and the Texas State HistoricalAssociation.

James and Miranda had the following children:

+ 357 F i Susan Jane Brackeen
358 M ii Eli Jenway Brackeen was born on 4 Sep 1842 in Atlas, Lamar County, Texas. He died on 25 Dec 1916 in Paris, Lamar County, Texas. He was buried in Brackeen Cemetery (Unmarked grave).

From the records of W. B. Akin Hospital Patient Register of Lamar County,Texas it reflects that E J. Brackeen, white male, age 74, born Sep. 1842was admitted by Dr. M. A. Walker on Nov. 2, 1916 and discharged Dec 25,1916 (54 days) for "Brights Disease." Deed Bk. T2 pg. 290 recorded atthe Lamar County County Court House, Paris, Texas reflects Eli Jenway asthe grandson of Jesse Shelton and the son of James Madison Brackeen andhis wife Myranda Shelton Brackeen. No record of children have been found.

From Rodgers & Wade Furniture Co. Funeral Records in possession of Fry &Gibbs Funeral Home; Book #9; p.214; Service #293; Eli J. Brackeen; chargeto estate; ordered by W. L. Hutchison & J. Q. Griffis; place of death,Aikin Hospital; Physician, J. B. Chapman; cause of death, Bright'sdisease; date of death, 25 Dec 1916, 11 pm; Widower, age 73 years;interment at Brackeen cemetery; casket size 6/3 $15.00; robe $5.00; auto$5.00; Total $25.00. *Birth year is calculated. In 1993 this was anunmarked grave.

Source: Ancestry.com
Name: Eli J. Brackeen
Company: F
Unit: 22 Texas Cavalry.
Rank - Induction: Private
Rank - Discharge: Private
Allegiance: Confederate
Eli married F. A. Winters on 19 Mar 1861 in Paris, Lamar County, Texas.
+ 359 F iii Nancy Angeline Brackeen
+ 360 F iv Frances Etta Brackeen " (END of PAF data)

I wish you great luck in your continued search...if anythng else comes to mind please post ...thank you and blessings~~~Laurie

Wolveren
05-26-2006, 01:30 AM
Surnames:

Father:
Roberts--Isabelle b. c.Mar 1853. I don't know if this is a maiden or married name. The earliest I have found her (this name) is 1880 in Chase City, VA.
Knight--Jimi An 8 y/o boy with this name was listed as a boader in the household of Isabelle in 1900. My grandfather's name was James, thus I speculate that he and that boy were one in the same. I don't know if he was taken in, went by a different last name as a child or the census taker got the info all wrong.
Boyd--Willieanna/Willie Ann b.1870 in Charlotte Co. VA

Mother:
Ceasar--Martin b. c.1796 in VA. m. Judith b.1805 (uncertain of maiden name and marriage date)
Banner--S. Manuel b.Jun 1836 a slave in NC. m. Lucy Ceasar b.May 1842-daughter of Martin and Judith Ceasar
Walker--William-father of Walter Walker who married Cora-daughter of S. Manuel and Lucy Banner. Wm. from Reidsville, NC
Lambkin/Lampkin--Lucy-mother of Walter Walker who married Cora Banner. Lucy from VA, found in Reidsville, NC 1880

Akhasa
05-26-2006, 10:13 AM
peace everyone,

I like the surname listing idea. I hope you willll contact me if we have possibe connections to explore. The names I've listed are documented in my family- the extend to which they are NDN is something that I am still learning about.

Here are some of My surnames and (LATER) a few possible questions and connections based on what I've read of yours:

My names are:
STEWART, JONES, EVANS/EPPES, BROWN, BIBBY, MITCHELL, CHAVIS, GUY, GIBSON, VANHOOK

We migrated (my lines) from Greenville Va to Orange NC to Person NC to Macon NC, with some going on to Blount TN. (I can't prove the Ohio and Indiana connections at this time.)

First names and middle names which have been repeated in my family and others suggest may have originated as Surnames are Ruffin, Newsome, Anderson, and Rarrsom.

Moussini78- Who are your VanHooks and Martins?


mdsmokedancer- Did any of your Shepherds go to MAcon or connect with Chavis?

Tracey- Who are your Evans and McDaniels?

Christina- You have "Supona" and others. In our family- its written Saphronia/ Sophronia. Do you have Lovinia (various spellings) as well?

roca- Who are your Jones?

Quest for Facts- Do your Ruffin and Jones lines cross any Stewarts?

Vance- Have you come across any Stewarts or Carringtons for Blount TN from 1870 on- One of my Stewarts married a Carrington and passed for white, but her brother (a Stewart) was also there, but I lose him there?

Premierepearl08- I have Chavis' too. Do you have a weaver named Lydia? What Chavis' and where?

BlondeyeLaurie- Are any of your Andersons connected to a Evans/Eppes line? Do you have Gibson's from Del MD VA (DELMARVA) eastern shore or Gibsons that went to Haywood and Macon?


give thanks
akhasa

Linda
05-26-2006, 05:30 PM
Geez Louise, have you got a trove of names! All of them are familiar to me in this connection, except the Bibbs and VanHook names. Does your family look Indian? Do you all have family stories about it?

Akhasa
05-26-2006, 08:06 PM
Hey Linda,

I don't want to bore the group, or clutter the thread, so I'll pm you some of what I know and where I'm headed.

akhasa

scylar148
05-26-2006, 10:24 PM
My great grandfather was a blackfoot indian who married a 'malatto' african american, Lucy Bryant Perkins 3/28/1872. His name changed or he was known by the Civil War Pension people to have the alias of Jim Shemes or James Shemes, and the given name of James perkins or Jim Perkins. His family knows him, affecctionately, as James (Jas) Perkins. He was born in Trenton County, North Carolina 8/22/1839 and he died in Northwest Township, North Carolina 3/1/1920. He had 11 children and my grandfather Harvey Perkins was born in 1889 and married Mary Augustas Williams Perkins. They had 11 childrens, my mother Jannie being one the eleven. Iam told that
Trenton County and Jones County North Carolina is the same, as well as Northwest and Leland, North Carolina of the greater Wilminton, North Carolina.
My purpose is to find my great grandfather's relatives or not to find them but to trance his roots. I'v already learned that he served during the Civil War, but I dont know where (what unit) and how (his rank) or in what capacity.
I am hoping for some help and further clarification of his past.
Also, some of my great grandfather's children moved out across the country in places such as Kansas City (i.e. Saul, Mary, Cornealius, Julia, and Howard Perkins).
Thanks in advance for any help one might have to offer!
Sincerely,
scylar148

dovelady
05-26-2006, 11:56 PM
Listing of my surnames:
Father's side:
Dunn, Brewster, O'Connor, Karr (Kerr, Carr), Taylor, Groat, Harding, Carey.

Mother side:
Newton, Guinn, Red(d), Bettis, Taylor

techteach
05-27-2006, 07:26 AM
Dovelady,
I have a book that discusses the genealogy of the Carrs in eastern Iowa, if my memory serves me right. I am assuming that they are from eastern Iowa. That is where the author is from. The book has has my Ralstons in it (who intermarry in the book at a later point with the Hardins - you should check out the cemetery stuff on Jackson County, Iowa's genealogy site).
I don't have time to look at it right now - I have company staying at the house and am getting ready for a week-long inservice in Kansas - but I can see if I can find it when I return. I don't think I returned it to Mom. It is called "The Golden Threads" and has 3 volumes. I just have the third, as that is where my Ralstons are. You might Google this. There is something online. The author is Weger.

Techteach

BlondeyeLaurie
05-27-2006, 10:07 AM
Akhasa...thank you for such a detailed surname thread...to reply to your queary of my lines:
None of my Anderson's appear as yet to connect to the Evans name; they are primarilly connected with my Cole, Collins, Gibson lines. I DO have some Evans but they connect to surnames: Jett, Hatfield, McCoy & NIchols.
As to my Gibson's, they connect readilly to my Nichols, Cole, Collins, Mullins...many way back (pre 1880) are in VA, TN and KY...after 1880 they tend to be mostly in OK and OH and KY. I have a few that did meander to others states but have not honestly traced those extensively.
Thanks again for the post....take great care~~~Laurie

tarcarion
05-27-2006, 11:47 AM
All,
Paternal grandmother: Thompson, Brittian, Cole, Bowman, Barbour, Mark, Carter, and Porter
Paternal grandfather: Clay, Copley, Akers, Mills, James
BlondeyeLaurie,
I think you and I (and Aubrey G. Cole) might have the same Cole family. Your William Cole b. 1791, Lincoln Co. NC is probably related to my John (Jack) Cole b. 1799 in Lincoln Co NC. I have almost nothing on John Cole. I'd be interested to hear what you have on the Cole family.

Jim

roca
05-27-2006, 12:04 PM
Dear Akhasa,

Jones occurs on my mother's side.

Virginia Jones (Smith) was my g-g-g grandmother,born in Albemarle CO,
VA around 1850 to Lee and Margaret Jones.(unknown birthplaces and years)

Virginia married Lindsay Smith of Fairfax CO,VA,12/24/1867.Their daughter,Maggie E. Smith,married my g-g-grandfather,John Nightingale/Nightengale (b-1857,Howardsville,Albemarle,CO,VA),9/19/1884.

The only paper I've seen on her to date is a citation on the 1920 VA census,Scottsville,Carter's Bridge,Albemarle CO.I found a "Virginia Smith" whose "household" was sandwiched between the aforementioned John Nightingale and a "Thornton Nightingale" (uncle to me,perhaps?).The circumstantial evidence leads me to believe that this Virginia Smith was most
likely Virginia Jones-Smith,my g-g-g grandmother and John's mother-in-law.

Roca

BlondeyeLaurie
05-27-2006, 01:44 PM
Hi Tarcarion! *waves* Thus far, this is what I have on that Cole paternal line: 1. Jack Cole (b: abt 1735 Buncombe Co, NC) ; wife UNK had issue:
2. John Charles "Jack" Cole (b: 1760 Buncombe Co, NC; d: 1862 Lawrence Co, KY) md: Cuzzie Anderson (b: 1760 NC; d: 1833 KY) had issue: Jackson, Ezekial, Charles, Mary, Margaret, Luana, Wils, & William Anderson Cole. Notes for father: John Charles "Jack" Cole: NOTE: John C. & Cuzzie Anderson Cole lived as members of Cherokee Indians (information from Anderson Cole Eastern Cherokee)
Cherokee Application # 31697; there is also some speculation that his father (Jack) Cole was adopted by an English farmer.
I have marital/descendancy information on only 3 of their children: Jackson, Luana & William Anderson, to wit:
3a. Jackson Cole (b: 1787 Buncombe Co, NC; d: 7 Mar 1864 Magoffin Co, KY) md 2 x: i. Margaret "Peggy" Higgins (b: abt 1795 Richmond, VA) had issue: Mariah E., Alvira, John, Harrison, Thomas J., Anderson, Elizabeth & Emanuel. ii. Katy MNU (b: abt 1790) no issue.
3b. Luana Cole (b: 1800; d: UNK) md 2x: i. William/Wilson Musgrove; issue: Nancy Montgomery & Margaret Cole Musgrove. ii. William Campbell (b: abt 1800) no issue.
3c. William Anderson Cole (b: 1791 Lincoln Co, NC; d: 1885 Magoffin Co, KY) md: 2x: i. Rebecca Watkins (b: May 1830 Floyd Co, KY; d: 6 Apr 1908 Magoffin Co, KY) issue: Biddy Watkins "Liddy" , Luana, Cynthia, Elizabeth, Marilla Mary, William R., & Wilson Cole. ii. Obedience "Biddy" Collins (b: 1804 Madison, KY; d: 1839 Magoffin Co, KY) issue: Naomi "Oma", Kezziah Price, Valentine "Tiney", Jemima "Mima", Susannah "Sooky", Charlotte, George, Dicey, John, Hiram, & Jackson Cole. Note: Rebecca Watkins Cole was listed as being 1/2 Cherokee on NA rolls.
In censuses , most of these ppl were listed as alternatingly: W, MU and B...later generations were, at times listed as IN. A goodly number of these Cole descendants are referrenced in the "Who's Yer People" dissertation written by Richard Carlson as well. It is through William Anderson Cole & his wife Obedience "Biddy" 's children that these Cole's connect to my Nichols lines...Naomi, Jemima & Susannah all having MD Nichols males.
Hope this was at least minimally helpful. Take care~~~~Laurie

tarcarion
05-27-2006, 02:02 PM
Laurie,
I've got a feeling that this is mine and Aubrey's Coles although I don't see "our" John Jack Cole b. 1799. Could there be another son of John Charles "Jack" Cole, a John "Jack" Cole perhaps that's not listed? I think it's more than coincidence that "our" John Cole had a middle name Jack. Maybe we can get Aubrey's thoughts on this.
Bill .. Am I missing something obvious here?

Jim

dovelady
05-27-2006, 06:24 PM
Answering post #162

Wow! Thank you so much Tech.

I will try to find info on it online. My Karr/Carr married a Dunn but then one of his descendants married into the Groat line which had married into the Harding line. Whew!

And if I remember right my Dunn Gpa was born in Iowa. Wow.. It seems that Iowa is a real pivot point or joining point of at least three of my lines. This is interesting. I'll let you know if I find anything out. If not, I may ask you to see if you still have the book. I would appreciate your help. :)

BlondeyeLaurie
05-28-2006, 01:16 AM
Tarcarion....this is going to look right confusing but...my suspicion is that your John Jack Cole MAY have in fact been teh one I refer to as Jackson Cole...who married a Margaret Higgins...the problem is, the One world trees are often a mess and muddle families quite a bit...my initial suspicion aside, this is everything I located on Ancestry trees about a purported John Cole...they DO however list him as being John L. Cole and they have inadvertently attached NUMEROUS wives to him...the author/indexer/inputters of this data are listed as UNK but it is perhaps worth further examination. Here goes:
ID: I200
Name: Mathew COLE
Sex: M
Birth: 1774 in Md
Death: WFT Est. 1823-1866
Note: An old family Bible states that Mathew was 1/2 Cherokee Indian, Other descendants report this as well. (Alternate spelling Matthew Cole.)

Marriage 1 Catherine COLE b: 1782 in Lee County, va
Married: WFT Est. 1795-1825
Children
John L. COLE b: 9 JAN 1800 in Lee County, va
Lucy COLE b: 1802 in Lee County, Va
Mathew Cole JR. b: 1804 in Va
Katherine COLE b: 1810 in Lee County, Va
Abbott G. COLE b: 1812 in Lee co. Va
William COLE b: 12 APR 1812 in Lee county Va
Charles COLE b: 1813 in Lee Co. Va
Suzie COLE b: 1814 in Va
Aaron COLE b: 1815
George COLE b: 1816 in Lee Co. Va
Nancy COLE b: 1820
Barbara COLE b: 1821
------------------------------------------------
*Above would be his purported parents and siblings...
-------------------------------------------------
ID: I197
Name: John L. COLE
Sex: M
Birth: 9 JAN 1800 in Lee County, va
Death: 23 FEB 1873 in Owsley County, Ky
Note: He married 1st Margaret Higgins, and married nd Eliza Bowman. John and Margaret moved to Jackson County Ky to put an end to family fueding after he was force to shoot at one of his Higgins Brother-in-laws in self-defense. John & Margaret are buried on top of a mountain in Jackson County, Ky. (John also reported buied in Mckee Ky, Don't know if that's the same place)

Father: Mathew COLE b: 1774 in Md
Mother: Catherine COLE b: 1782 in Lee County, va

Marriage 1 Eliza BOWMAN b: WFT Est. 1799-1861
Married: WFT Est. 1818-1871
Children
John COLE b: 10 AUG 1883

Marriage 2 Margaret HIGGINS b: WFT Est. 1796-1816
Married: WFT Est. 1817-1849
Children
Elizabeth COLE b: WFT Est. 1822-1848
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*Above is how they index him and his wives on OWT
--------------------------------------------------------------------
ID: I198
Name: Eliza BOWMAN
Sex: F
Birth: WFT Est. 1799-1861
Death: WFT Est. 1884-1950

Marriage 1 John L. COLE b: 9 JAN 1800 in Lee County, va
Married: WFT Est. 1818-1871
Children
John COLE b: 10 AUG 1883
--------------------------------------------------------------
*Above is how they index him as in his marriage to Eliza Bowman
--------------------------------------------------------------
Eliza Bowman
Born:

Died:

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Suggested parentI've added/acceptedAlternatesI've added/modifiedSuggested by OneWorldTree John Cole
John Cole (B: 1883)

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John Cole
Born: 9 Jan 1800 in [city], Lee, VA, USA
Died: 23 Feb 1873 in [city], Owsley, KY, USA Edit
Marriage: Add Marriage Information
Children Sex Birth
John Cole M 10 Aug 1883 in [city], Harlan, KY, USA
---------------------------------------------------------------
*Above is how they errantly index him on a family sheet...note that they are ridiculously listing him as having died BEFORE his son John was even born!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
John Cole
Born: 9 Jan 1800
[city], Lee, VA, USA
Died: 23 Feb 1873
[city], Owsley, KY, USA
Edit person's info

Suggested parentI've added/acceptedAlternatesI've added/modifiedSuggested by OneWorldTree Margaret Hays
Elizabeth Cole (B: 1839)
Charles George Cole (B: 1842)
Margaret McClure Eliza Bowman
John Cole (B: 1883)
Margaret Higginbotham
Elizabeth Cole (B: 1839)
Margaret Higgins
Elizabeth Cole (B: 1839)
Margaret Higinbottom
Nancy Cole (B: )
Jerome Cole (B: 1830)
William Franklin Cole (B: 1836)
Elizabeth Cole (B: 1839)
Charles George Cole (B: 1842)
John L Cole (B: 1845)
Mary H Cole (B: 1848)
Margaret
Elizabeth Cole (B: 1839)

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Margaret Hays
Born: 1806 in [city], Green, TN, USA
Died: Edit
Marriage: 18 Nov 1824 in [city], Green, TN, USA Edit
Children Sex Birth
Elizabeth Cole F 1839 in [city], Clay, KY, USA Edit
Charles George Cole M 2 Jan 1842 in [city], Clay, KY, USA Edit
Add a child
Spouse 2 Remove this family
Margaret McClure
Born:
Died: Edit
Marriage: 1829 Edit
Children Sex Birth
Add a child
Spouse 3 Remove this family
Eliza Bowman
Born:
Died: Edit
Marriage: Add Marriage Information
Children Sex Birth
John Cole M 10 Aug 1883 in [city], Harlan, KY, USA Edit
Add a child
Spouse 4 Remove this family
Margaret Higginbotham
Born: 1815
Died: Edit
Marriage: Add Marriage Information
Children Sex Birth
Elizabeth Cole F 1839 in [city], Clay, KY, USA Edit
Add a child
Spouse 5 Remove this family
Margaret Higgins
Born:
Died: Edit
Marriage: Add Marriage Information
Children Sex Birth
Elizabeth Cole F 1839 in [city], Clay, KY, USA Edit
Add a child
Spouse 6 Remove this family
Margaret Higinbottom
Born: 17 Nov 1809 in [city], [county], VA, USA
Died: 2 Aug 1889 Edit
Marriage: Add Marriage Information
Children Sex Birth
Nancy Cole F Edit
Jerome Cole M 30 Sep 1830 in [city], [county], VA, USA Edit
William Franklin Cole M 1836 in [city], Clay, KY, USA Edit
Elizabeth Cole F 1839 in [city], Clay, KY, USA Edit
Charles George Cole M 2 Jan 1842 in [city], Clay, KY, USA Edit
John L Cole M 1845 in [city], Owsley, KY, USA Edit
Mary H Cole F 4 Feb 1848 in [city], Owsley, KY, USA Edit
Add a child
Spouse 7 Remove this family
Margaret
Born:
Died: Edit
Marriage: Add Marriage Information
Children Sex Birth
Elizabeth Cole F 1839 in [city], Clay, KY, USA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
*Above is ALL of his "potential" spouses and issue....some ppl honestly don't "deserve" to access and input such rot but hey....it MAY be a starting point for further research of him and his wife Eliza nee Bowman and if he is in fact AKA Jackson Cole, then in his marriage to Margaret Higgins, who MAY in fact have been Margaret Higginbottom/Higginbotham.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 16 Trees listing this man and his wife Eliza Bowman , the most detailed one that DOES have sources and notes is the very first one at the TOP of this post...no email to contact however. *frowns* One record indicates that he was born in Leeds Co, VA, most others say Lee Co, VA. Some (about half) of the trees do not list who hsi parents might have been...perhaps he WAS a child of my John Charles called Jack Cole?
As to their purported son John, they have on the OWT the following information for his spouse and children:
John Cole
Born: 10 Aug 1883
[city], Harlan, KY, USA
Died: 6 May 1946
[city], Oldham, KY, USA
Edit person's info

Suggested parentI've added/acceptedAlternatesI've added/modifiedSuggested by OneWorldTree Nancy Hensley
William B Cole (B: )
Virginia Cole (B: )
June Cole (B: )
Joe Cole (B: )
Lee Cole (B: 1901)
Birdie Cole (B: 1901)
Aubrey Cole (B: 1903)
Charles Cole (B: 1904)
Frank Cole (B: 1908)
Arch Cole (B: 1909)
Mary Cole (B: 1913)
Wash (B: 1919)
Carl Cole (B: 1921)

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Nancy Hensley
Born: 18 Feb 1885 in [city], Harlan, KY, USA
Died: 2 Aug 1957 in Lagrange, Oldham, KY, USA Edit
Marriage: 2 Sep 1898 in [city], Jellico Campell, TN, USA Edit
Children Sex Birth
William B Cole M Edit
Virginia Cole F Edit
June Cole F Edit
Joe Cole M Edit
Lee Cole F 10 Aug 1901 Edit
Birdie Cole F 10 Aug 1901 Edit
Aubrey Cole M 4 Mar 1903 Edit
Charles Cole M 8 Dec 1904 in Rosehill, [county], VA, USA Edit
Frank Cole M 12 Mar 1908 Edit
Arch Cole M 4 Dec 1909 Edit
Mary Cole F 6 Jan 1913 in Harlan, [county], KY, USA Edit
Wash M 28 Apr 1919 Edit
Carl Cole M 23 Jun 1921
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*I don't yet know how to unravel all of it but I'll next peek at some other records and do some census searching to see if the "twain" does meet on any of it. Until next time....luck be with you!~~~~~~Laurie

tarcarion
05-28-2006, 03:01 PM
Laurie,
Thanks so much. This is definitely mine and Aubrey Cole's Cole family, or at least a good part of it! And you're right about the confusing part! I have John "Jack" Cole born 1799 (which is close enough to 1800 to be a "hit")John was married at least twice and very possibly three times, 1st unknown, 2nd Margaret "Peggy" Mallet, and 3rd, Eliza Bowman, daughter of Hawkins Bowman and my gr. gr. grandmother. Eliza was born in 1842 and married John Cole in 1857. She died in 1927. Aubrey has more on the Cole family than I do and surely he'll "chime in" and help us out here. Today I was looking at the 1850 Lee Co. Census and saw Matthew Cole that you have listed above. The John Cole listed as born 10 Aug 1883 is Aubrey's grandfather and his son Carl b. 1921 is Aubrey's father.
Thanks so much for this info. Even though it's jumbled up, there's enough correct info here to verify that it's "our" Coles for sure. This really helps.
Also there's a story Aubrey told me about John Jack Cole shooting some family member (help me out here Aubrey) and that goes along with the above story of John Cole shooting a brother-in-law.Aubrey said he hide out in MO for a while and Hawk Bowman may have went with him. Hawk and John Cole were good friends. Hawk was my gr. gr. gr. grandfather and Aubrey's gr. gr. grandfather. Thanks again.

Jim

tarcarion
05-28-2006, 03:35 PM
Blondeyelaurie,
I forgot to add, we show John Jack Cole as being born in Lincoln Co. NC where the info you posted shows him born Lee Co. VA. The rumor is that my gr. grandmother Mary Elizabeth Cole was fathered by James Brittian and not by John Jack Cole but I've never seen any documentation to prove this. "The plot thickens!"

Jim

BlondeyeLaurie
05-28-2006, 10:55 PM
Well I say "right on Jim!"....that is great news....some of it being "confirming" will at the least pave the way to furthering your lineage research...you just never know what you are going to find when you start digging. Sometimes the most seemingly insignificant or jumbled "similarity" can guide you right through a brick wall. Kudos to you and Aubrey...I can't wait to hear tell what all you unveil henceforth! Take care~~~~Laurie

anitabingamon
05-29-2006, 12:21 AM
On my Mother's side of the family, the surnames are Hall, Miller, Newman, Branstetter/Branstutter, Payne, Oney, Steward, two branches of Wright, Harrison; Mosley/Mosely and Moseley, Alford/Halford, Maiden/Mahan, McCabe/McCaib, Lunsford, Jones.

On my father'sside Gibson, Finley, Jeffers/Jeffcoat, Gatliff, Roark, Garrett, Allen, Bouth/South; Bryant, Watkins, Harris, Baker; Logan, Meek/Meeks, Wright, Taylor, Farris, Ward, Calhoun, Peyton, Ellis, Hawkins, Edwards, Hill Puryor/Pryor, Harding, Bussell/Russell.

I know I am probably forgetting some names, but will get them later.

Anita B.

dovelady
05-29-2006, 01:22 AM
Hi Anita. I have Hardings in my line too. .And Taylor's also. but none of the other names look familiar.

BlondeyeLaurie
05-29-2006, 01:47 AM
Hello Anita *smile*...you and I have quite a few surname connections perhaps. My maternal lineage and your paternal surnames often coincide...they appear to be surnames that connect to both my maternal Nichols and Jett lines...the surnames that we have in common include the following: (those marked with a * preceeding them being most abundantly evident in my tree.) *Gibson, Gatliff, Roark, Finley, Garrett, *Allen, South, *Watkins, Harris, Baker, Logan, Wright, *Taylor, Ward, Payton, Ellis, *Edwards, Hill. If you wish to toss a few primary names/lines/dates with the * surnames perhaps we can see if/how we "connect". Thank you for posting such an extensive listing. Take care~~~~~~~~~Laurie

lentz of nc
05-31-2006, 08:31 PM
I have quite a few Robbins on my side of the family they mainly lived in eastern n.c

anitabingamon
05-31-2006, 11:41 PM
Hey Laurie! That is cool that we have a few connections. Most of my lines came from VA and are in KY, TN, NC and AL, and two of my mom's lines come from NY in the early 1600s. My Taylors, Farrises, and Logans are on both sides of my family (Hall and Gibson). It will take me a while to get all my names together, but I can do it.

I do have a PAF program where I keep my research results, so I use that and Rootsweb, Census On-Line, and other free search programs. I have an aunt and cousin that got me started doing genealogy a few years ago. When I got my computer, I really went to town ;)

I will post the dates and places for you. Some of my research may be incorrect, but I try to check it up against other sources.

Aubrey G. Cole
06-01-2006, 02:52 PM
tarcarion and BlondeyeLaurie;
First ,let me list a couple affidavit's
State of Virginia
County of Lee
Robert Cole , being duly sworn on oath, deposes and says that
he is a resident of Rose Hill, County of Lee, State of Virginia, and that he is now about---years of age ;that his father's name was John Cole and
that his mother's maiden name was Lize Bowman, that his father John Cole during his lifetime, repeatedly stated to the affiantthat he was a
full-bloodied Cherokee Indian, that his father also saidthat he was taken
from his Indian parents and adopted by a family living in -----County Virginia, by the name of ----;that the affiant's father was a large,
tall man with long black hair, and he had the features of an Indian,
that the said John Cole repeatedly stated to the affiant that he had fought in
the War of 1812, and that he had been a waiter for James Campbell during the said War; that the said James Campbell was a Captain in the Army of the United States,the affisnt futher sttes that----(4 Blank Lines)
Subscribed and sworn to before me this ----day of 1919
__________________
NOTARY PUBLIC_____County, Virginia
My Comission Expires______
This was passed on to me exactly as it was written the blanks were either left blank or had faded over time, was an affidavit from family in Mich who were trying to put family info together in 1919.


#2
Book8 , P. 516
Lee County Va Records
Known by all these presents that I John Cole of the county of the state of Virginia for and in consideration
of Ten years of service as an Housekeeper at Fifty two dollars per year and also the natural love and
affection which I be on Margaret Mallet and also her five children Namely Richard, Elizabeth,Elaine,John and Harrison Mallet or Cole have this day bargained and sold and by therefore into do give
named property to wit: one Mare and colt, five head of cattle,___head of swine, seven head of sheep
and cart together with all my have and hold and kitchen furniture,_____,______ of growing grain now
in the ground and every other species of property wich I have or have a right to in any way. Given
under my hand and seal this 17th day of October 1842.
John Cole (his mark) (seal)
Attest D. H. Campbell
Lee County Clerk's Office 19th day of October 1842, this deed of gift from John Cole to Mallet was
acknowledged before and admitted to record
J.W.S. Morrison

In 1845 John Cole (Cherokee Indian) was grnted a 50 acre tract of land in Knox Co Ky, Registered and Recorded in Knox Co Ky 1847 , Book 20 Page 146 No.9728.
The land was taken away from him as he was an Indian by Whiote people, He left ky and went bsck to Va.
Robert (Blind BOB0 Cole b. 20 june 1860 died Rose Hill Va 7 June 1930 was married to Sarah Jane ??? and is buried in the Warf Cemetary Rose Hill Va.
Sarah Jane Cole, Jack and Clarence Warf are also in Warf Cemetary
Washington (george Washington ) Cole son of Eliza bowman Married Lurenda Clouse, lived in Rose Hill Va and had several children
Carlo lived and died in Harlan Co Ky
Maynard Died young
Jerry married ?? moved near Oldham co ky and then to Corbin Ky I believe.Had several children.( I Aubrey G Cole, met Jerry on 3 or 4 occassions He was very dark complicted, with straight Black hair and looked like a full blood Indian to me)
Mary M. Leonard Pauley 1 child divorced she married Little Washington Cole 2nd time he was son of Jacob Cole
Nelia Cole b 4 jul 1911 d. 7 aug 1920 burried Pace Cemetary Rose Hill Va.


This is some of the info I have regarding John (Jack) Cole and Margaret Malletand Eliza Bowman Cole.also have statement from family member stating that both John and Margaret came from N.C.and she was Dutch and French . also that all the children execpt wm Jefferson and Elizabeth Eliza went to Michigan with their mother, That Elizabeth had one child named Jane and that wm Jefferson had 6 children and that he lived and died in Lee Co Va. John M Cole married and settled in Mich and Had a Large family.It was never known what happened to Emanuel or Manuel /Cole, However Anderson came back to va and died there is buried on mountain in Rose Hill Va.
Also info from P.V. Cole in the 1930's stated that his grandfather Jojn Cole killed one of his bro in laws and fled to Missouri for a spell, that he knew 2 of John's bro's they were Willia and George, also that Mathew c Cole was named after his g-gfathe Mathew Cole. I also have a couple other letters from older Cole family members and will forward copies if you so desire
as always
Aubrey G Cole

anitabingamon
06-01-2006, 05:50 PM
In addition to my surnames, here are some names, dates and places from my grandmother Alice Francis Logan, born 1907 in KY and died Jan. 4, 1997.

Alice "Allie" Frances Logan married William Jennings Gibson. Allie's parents were John Frank Logan b. 18641 in KY and died 1919 in KY. He married Sara Ann "Sallie" Meeks June 17, 1904. Sara was born 1887, place unknown and died 1958, place unknown. It was said that Sara traveled pretty much, and sadly only saw her daughter Allie maybe once in a period of 20 years. Sara's parents were Hiram Meeks and Elizabeth Wright.

Elizabeth Wright was b. about 1839, place unknown. Elizabeth married Hiram Meeks, b. about 1838 and died some time after 1887, date and place of death unknown. Their year of marriage was sometime around 1866, place unknown. Elizabeth died some time after 1887, place unknown. Her parents were Joel (S.?) Wright and Esther Calhoun.

Joel (S.?) Wright was born around 1806 in Wayne Co., KY, death date and place unknown. He married Esther Calhoun, who was born around 1815 in KY, no death date or place given. No marriage date given. Joel's parents were Jesse Wright and Doshua "Doshea" (Dorothy) Peyton.

Jesse Wright was b. around 1764 in Amhearst Co., VA, and d. sometime after Sept., 1830 in Wayne Co., KY. Jesse married Doshua Peyton, date unknown.
Doshua "Doshea" (Dorothy) Peyton was b. around 1764 in Stafford Co., VA and died 1831 in Wayne Co., KY. Jesse's parents were Susannah Ellis and Isaac Wright.

Isaac Wright was b. around 1740 in King William Co., VA and died 1807 in Amherst Co., VA. He married Susannah Ellis, date and place unknown. Susannah Ellis was b. 9 Nov 1744 in Henrico Co., VA and died 1821 in Bourbon Co., KY. Isaac's parents were Mary Hawkins and Francis E. Wright.

I will finish this later, as we are having a thunderstorm, and I don't want to lose what I have printed so far. I will try to pick up where I left off, later.

Aubrey G. Cole
06-01-2006, 09:18 PM
To all;
the surnames on my mothers side of the family are Dunaway, Muncie,Neal,Woolery,Powell,. these are what I have as I am just getting started, I have a Cousin who stated that in the 1950's he had a family tree complied and has since lost it but that the names were traced back to the Souix, He did not say which names so I guess I'll have a lot of hunting to do.
As always
Aubrey G Cole

scylar148
06-02-2006, 08:55 PM
My great grandfather was a blackfoot indian who married a 'malatto' african american, Lucy Bryant Perkins 3/28/1872. His name changed or he was known by the Civil War Pension people to have the alias of Jim Shemes or James Shemes, and the given name of James perkins or Jim Perkins. His family knows him, affecctionately, as James (Jas) Perkins. He was born in Trenton County, North Carolina 8/22/1839 and he died in Northwest Township, North Carolina 3/1/1920. He had 11 children and my grandfather Harvey Perkins was born in 1889 and married Mary Augustas Williams Perkins. They had 11 childrens, my mother Jannie being one the eleven. Iam told that
Trenton County and Jones County North Carolina is the same, as well as Northwest and Leland, North Carolina of the greater Wilminton, North Carolina.
My purpose is to find my great grandfather's relatives or not to find them but to trance his roots. I'v already learned that he served during the Civil War, but I dont know where (what unit) and how (his rank) or in what capacity.
I am hoping for some help and further clarification of his past.
Also, some of my great grandfather's children moved out across the country in places such as Kansas City (i.e. Saul, Mary, Cornealius, Julia, and Howard Perkins).
Thanks in advance for any help one might have to offer!
Sincerely,
scylar148

BlondeyeLaurie
06-02-2006, 10:29 PM
Hello Aubrey....great to hear from you with your ideas and facts on this family....the picture is getting clearer (somewhat) when everything everyone knows is pieced together...thanks so much for the reply.
Reading what Jim wrote...and what YOU wrote and what I discerned thus far...I did soem more hunting about and came up with the following (perhaps) additional information on this line of Coles:
*I started with Carlos Cole and "backtracked further back in time/generations, thus showing the following:
1. Carlo Cole registered for WWI and his Draft Registration card reads as follows: Carlo Cole; age 21; residence: Hagan, VA; born: 24 Jul 1896 in Harlan Co, KY; employer: C.C. Davis; occupation: farming(general farm); Marital Status: single; Race: Part Indian; Physical stats: Medium height and weight/build; Black hair, Black eyes; Precinct of registration: White Shoals, Lee Co, VA; reg. date: 5 Jun 1918.
2. In 1920 in White Shoals, Lee Co, VA I located a census with:
Washington Cole, H of HH, 49 W, VA
Lerinda, 49, wife
Carlo, 23,
Maynard, 19
Jerry, 16
Florence, 11
Nellie, 8
Polly Mary, 22
Washington (g son), 8/12 mos.
3. I also located a death index for Carlo Cole stating: DOD 21 Nov 1972, age 76 years, place of death: Harlan Co, KY
4. In 1900 I located a census in Indian Territory..the H of HH was listed as George Cole, age 29, B: feb 1872 VA with sisters:
Nannie, 33, B: Oct 1866 VA
Victoria, 32, B: Feb 1868 VA
Sallie, 30, B: Apr 1870 VA
5. In the same census year, 1920 I located a Rose Hill, Lee Co, VA listing for H of HH:
Robert Cole, age 60, B: VA with wife:
Serra J., age 62, B: VA
6. In 1870 in Harlan Co, KY in Mt. Pleasant I found a VERY interesting census...it actually indexed the family members as JAPANESE!....but I looked at it nonetheless and found the following:
H of HH: Eliza Cole, 28 VA, I (*Indian!...NOT Japanese! LOL)
Almeda, 12, VA, I
Jacob, 14, VA, I
Robert, 10, VA, I
Mary Jane, 6, VA, I
Mollie, 1/12 mos, VA, I
7. For Robert "Blind Bob" Cole I located a rootsweb DB of Don Warf (email: donwarf@juno.com) that listed him as b: 20 Jun 1860
d: 7 Feb 1930 Rose Hill, Lee Co, VA
buried: Warf/Cole Cemetery, Rose Hill, Lee Co, VA
his wife being Sarah Jane MARTIN b: 18 Aug 1858 KY d: 18 Nov 1928 Rose Hill, Lee Co, VA, burial: DO above
I found a listing on a OWT showing a daughter for them: Mary Florence "Marthy" Cole b: 19 feb 1885 KY buried: Clyde, Sandusky Co, OH *note: Don Warf indicates in another PAF that Marthy has a headstone in the Warf/Cole Cemetery so her burial location is UNK.
Marthy is also listed on a PAF @ Rootsweb belonging to: William Gordon Mullins, SR. (email: wmullins@nc.rr.com)...hsi info coupled with that of Don Warf present the following on Marthy:
She Md Joseph W. Warf abt 1898 in Harlan Co, KY; he being b: 10 May 1878 Rose Hill, Lee Co, VA; issue:
Clarence: b: abt 1901 Rose Hill, Lee Co, VA
Polly/Pauline/Mary: b: abt 1903 DO
James Henry "Jim": b: 17 Jun 1910 DO
David O.: b: abt 1909
Leona: b: abt 1914
Jackson R./ Robert Jackson "Jack": b: 19 Jun 1899 DO
Walter Sr.: b: abt 1905
Mary N. : b: abt 1912
Albena: b: abt 1916.
8. In 1850 I located a census in Knox Co, KY showing H of HH:
John Cole, 52, NC
Eliza, 15, VA
Emanuel, 13 VA
John, 12, VA
Harrison, 11, VA
Elizabeth, 8, KY
Anderson, 6, KY
Jefferson, 4, KY
Elviry? Elvisy? Elray? (female), 12, VA
*Note: it is POSSIBLE that the census taken "flubbed" and mistakenly indexed John/Jack/Jackson's wife Eliza as a daughter being only 15...but this census to me was very telling and pretty much indicates to me, that your John was Jack...aka: Jackson Cole...one and the same as the son of John Charles "Jack" Cole & Cuzzie Anderson.
It seems right "likely" that this line of men used numerous names and pet names throughout various years...and likley many had numerous wives and/or children...carrying the names on. I know that alot of this is speculation on my part and the part of others but historically it all is seemingly "fitting" nicely. In the 1850 census in Knox Co, KY they are literally SURROUNDED by Gipson(Gibson) families...which is no suprise to me. I additionally wanted to make mention that there is one record showing that John/Jack/Jackson Cole's wife previously listed as KATY UNK...is listed as having been Katy GIBSON, born 1790...but I have thus far been able to locate more on her.
Other notes re: his children that I wanted to pass along:
i. Mariah E. Cole who MD Valentine "Tiney" Cole...she is listed as Sarah E. Cole on her son John M. Wesley's birth record..... to wit:
Source: Located Oct 2005 from a compilation of births/marriages and deaths in Floyd & Magoffin Counties in KY: Volume II of KY Vital Statistics originally printed in 1977 by Clarence E. Shepherd, printed by the Magoffin County Historical Society. Magoffin County births, page 90.*Note: he is listed as John W. Cole, mother listed as Sarah Collins*(I have all of these records and indexed them myself...these are my own personal source notes.)
John M. Wesley Cole MD 2x: Rebecca Nichols(22 May 1878 at Wm. Nichols' home, Magoffin Co, KY) and then Sally Nichols(30 Sept 1903 at Newton Pee Nihols' home, Magoffin Co, KY).
ii. Re: Anderson Cole: I have his having MD Elizabeth Antrobus (b: May 1849 KY; D; 1905 KY?) with issue: William T. Cole ( b: 30 May 1889KY) On the 1900 census he is listed as Cherokee/Indian. Source/other notes I had:
May 2005, from "Bits & pieces of Magoffin Co, KY" court docs:
" 1886 Sept 6 to Oct 22: Thomas F. Arnett, Jailer, made claims:....Oct 22, committed Anderson Cole, worked(worker?) said Cole (was) on street in irons twice..."
iii. Re: Elizabeth Cole: I had the following notes:
Possible source for spouse/children, located May 2005 from OWT, to wit:
Elizabeth Cole
Born: 1839
[city], Clay, KY, USA
Died: 25 Apr 1903
[city], Owsley, KY, USA
To wit:DO above source. Possible spouse and issue:
William Brewer
Nancy Mary Brewer (B: 1854)
John Brewer (B: 1855)
Howell Brewer (B: 1859)
Family data:
William Brewer
Born: 1829 in [city], Hawkins, TN, USA
Died: 28 May 1895 in Sturgeon, Owsley, KY, USA
Marriage: 19 Jul 1853 in [city], Hawkins, TN, USA
Children Sex Birth
Nancy Mary Brewer F 5 Mar 1854
John Brewer M Mar 1855 in Macon, [county], IL, USA
Howell Brewer M 1859 in [city], Owsley, KY, US
iv. Re: Emanuel Cole...I had previously noted that he DID marry...wife only listed as Elizabeth UNK, b: KY. There IS a Emanuel Cole that was born in 1838 (which is NOT a far stretch) that enlisted in the Union Army for the Civil War...I just cannot know if this would be he or not at this juncture....he having mustered out of OH.
I suppose that is enough babbling for one nite....please reply in stead if this makes some sense or not...I'd surely like to put this "baby" to bed and have some semblance of knowing...LOL...wouldn't we all? Thanks for the onlien "ear". Blessings to you and yours~~~~Laurie

Ed Yancey
06-03-2006, 12:04 AM
Aubrey, just received some notes from my cousin. My great uncle's wife was Ida Hite married to Ed Fitts (Fitz). Their daughter Minnie born around 1908 married a Caleb Cole. I believe all these folk were in the Halifax County, Va. area. Ida Hite's parents were Thomas Hite and Sarah James. Minnie passed on notes about visiting "reservation" and Indian family members. We know there is Native American on her father's side and I believe the Cole and James surnames are connected with the Virginia native american lines. Have you seen any of these names in your research. Ed

Aubrey G. Cole
06-03-2006, 12:47 AM
HelloEd;
The name Caleb Cole rings a bell, as I have heard it mentioned by family somewhere, My grand mother said we were related to the James , I'll try to locate some notes I may have on this and get back to you. My g-fa was the one who gave me the name Greywolf, said I was as devilish as a little wolf. but it was not on birth certificate.
as always
Aubrey G Cole

Aubrey G. Cole
06-03-2006, 12:59 AM
Ed;
Just found notes from Cole family Bible of Melvenia Jane Cole Smith Copied by Abijah H Cole's Bible
It states: Mathew Cole my gg-grandfather who was 1/2 Cherokee Indian and his wife had a number of children in what is now known as Virginia, They were William,Jerome, Nathan,John, Jonothan, Aaron,James, Barbara, George G.,and Zerilda mother of Jesse James
Aubrey G Cole

BlondeyeLaurie
06-03-2006, 03:04 PM
Well folks....Aubrey, Jim...jusat as I start thinking that things are getting clearer...I dig some more and now find myself even more confused than ever. *sigh* Tracing up a tree or line before 1800 is tricky to say the least but from what others have and list and summize and post...there is some serious confusion as to who the patriarch of this clan was...the farther up you go...the more confusing it is. At this point I am perfectly uncertain who the father of John L/John/Jack/Jackson Cole really was...I think that likely numerous people have "merged" him with other John Cole's and their subsequent wives and parented him with , from what I can now tell...3 DIFFERENT fathers: the men in the running now seem to be: 1. John Charles "Jack" Cole (md Cuzzie Anderson), 2. Matthew Cole (md Catherine "Kate" Magee), or 3. Charles Cole (md Nancy or Elizabeth UNK).
I suppose the best way to TRY and tacjkle this "baby" is to post everything we know or locate, as such I located the following...and yes, they arew quite conflicting.
1. Re: Aubrey's recent post about a family bible listing of names of children of Matthew Cole & Catherine "Kate" Magee: Aubrey listed the following: William, Jerome, Nathan, John, Jonathan, Aaron, James, Barbara, George G., Zerilda. Coupling ALL of the OWT and FTM files...I located info that indicates that they could in fact have had the following children:
i. John L. (b: 9 Jan 1800 Lee Co, VA; MD: Margaret Higgins/Higginbottom/McClure/Higginbotham & Eliza Bowman; issue 7 CH)
ii. Lucy (b: 1802 Lee Co, VA; MD John B. Kirk; issue: 1 CH)
iii. Matthew Jr. (b: 1804 Lee Co, VA; d: bef 1860; MD: Mary Jane Cole? or Clareza UNK; issue: 12 CH)
iv. Katherine (b: 1810 Lee Co, VA; MD: Samuel Ellis; issue: 7 CH)
v. William (b: 12 apr 1812 Lee Co, VA; d: 12 Apr 1895 Clay Co, KY; MD: Matilda Cole; issue: 9 CH)
vi. Charles/Charley (b: 1810-1813 Lee Co, VA; d: 1859 Clay Co, KY; MD: Elizabeth H. Robertson; issue: 8 CH all b: Clay Co, KY)
vii. Aaron (b: 1815/1823 Lee Co, VA; no further data)
viii. George C or G. (b: 1816 Lee Co, VA; d: 2 Jun 1886 Clay Co, KY; MD: Mary Young Nicholson; issue: 7 CH)
ix. Nancy (b: 1820 Lee Co, VA; no further data)
x. Barbara (b: 1821 Lee Co, VA; MD: Wilmington Harris; issue: 2 CH)
xi. Susan/Susie (b: 1814/1824 Lee Co, VA; MD: UNK Warren; issue: 1 CH: Mary Cole Warren b: 1847)
xii. Abbott G. (b: 12 Apr 1812 *twin to William*; d: 1872 Jackson Co, KY; MD: Lucy Cole?;issue: 1 CH; MD 2: Winifred B. Hobbs; issue: 12 CH incl: Matthew b: 1832)
xiii. Jonathan (no data)
xiv. James (no data)
xv. Nathan (no data)
2. In looking at sourcing for Matthew and his family...some cite a 1810 Tax list in VA...I have personally not located this as yet.
3. I DID locate Matthew and Catherine in 1850 census in Owsley Co, KY showing: Mathew, 76 MD; Catherine, 68 VA; Susan, 26 VA, Mary, 2/3?, VA...I think we can assume that this is Mathew and his wife and their daughter Susan and her daughter Mary Cole Warren. On the very same census page were located: A. John Cole, 50, VA with his wife Margaret, 44, KY and CH: Jerome, 18; William, 14; Elizabeth, 11; Charles, 8; John, 5; Mary, 2 (all CH b: KY)...also listed on page: B. William, 33?, VA with wife Matilda, 27, VA; and CH: Martha (7, VA); Alexander (5, VA), Lucy (4, VA), Nancy (2, KY), & Aaron (2/12 mos, KY). * It appears that these were in fact Matthew & Catherine's 2 sons and their subsequent families.*
4. When I attempted to locate Matthew and his family prior to index census listings...I found the following POSSIBLE listings: 1820 Lee Co, VA: 13 ppl in HH; 1830 Lee Co, VA: 12 ppl in HH (6 M, 5 F) also on same page: HH of Wm. Cole w/ 2 in HH 91 M, 1 F). I had no "luck" in 1840 locating them and prior to 1820, in the 1810 and 1800 census...again, I fell short of locating anything that remotely appeared to be they.
5. It appears that most ppl feel that Matthew Cole was b; 1774 in MD and d: 1850 in either Owsley Co, KY or Lee Co, VA....his wife Catherine "Kate" Magee b: 1782 VA; d: 1850 KY or VA? was reported as being the daughter of Noel Magee on one listing. They reported to have MD in 1800-1802 in Lee Co, VA on a few records. Some individual's have made mention of a "Family Bible" much as Aubrey did...saying that Matthew was 1/2 Cherokee further stating that family members thru the generations have said likewise as well.
6. Matthew's parentage is predominantly listed as he being the son of a William Cole & Anne Tarleton...with siblings: John, Charles, William & George...all names he did in fact choose for some of his children. a few others indicate that his parents were a Charles Cole & Nancy or Elizabeth UNK and that he had a brother named John G. Cole who md a Nancy UNK. It is not much to go on but perhaps either could be fitting and further examined?
The majority of this data is from trees and PAF and rootsweb searching...many of the postings do NOT have an "owner" or compiler attached to them...they are simply hanging out there in "genealogy limbo" for ppl like us to locate and paruse and be miffed about. A FEW researchers did post their names and email addy and has sources for some of the data...they include:
1. PAF @ rootsweb by Wanda Courtney, dated 2002, email: kylady@bellsouth.net (She had listed sons of Matthew plus others not mentioned by other including: Jonathan, James and Nathan...also mentioned by Aubrey from the Family Bible)
2. OWT and Rootsweb/Genealogy.com Home page PAF of Barb Norvell, Title: Cole, Warren, Roberts; email: barbnor2@yahoo.com
Home page URL: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/n/o/r/Barbara-E-Norvell/index.html
*Note: this is a very extensive homepage with a thorough index and some RIGHT NEAT PICS too! She "finds" her "connection" to our Cole's as such: Charles Sr Cole 1750 MD Sarah UNK....to Charles Sr II Cole 1770 MD Elizabeth Stoneman.....to Charles Jr. Cole 1803 MD Elizabeth Haga....to David M. Cole 1830 MD America Minerva Parks (he being her G G gpa)...she shows the descendancy of Matthew beginning with Charles who MD Nancy or Elizabeth down to Matthew who MD Catherine. ...his brother Charles (b: 1770 in NC or MD)being her reported Charles Sr who MD Eliza. Stoneman. She lists Matthew & Catherine as having had 12 CH. Her Cole line is predominantly from in and around Grayson Co, VA...she indexes 1622 different Cole relatives in her tree.
If anyone has any ideas as to how I (or we) can further examine this Matthew Cole/Catherine "Kate" Magee and their up and down connections...PLEASE pass it along...we obviously can use all the help afforded us! Thanks again for the online interest and patience too! *wink*
Blessings until anon~~~~Laurie

Aubrey G. Cole
06-03-2006, 03:41 PM
BlondeyeLaurie;
Aaron Cole went to Mexico with General Scott during the Mexican War and never Returned.
I will be sending you notes I have from past family members Monday as soon as I can get to town and copy them.
Ain't this more fun than going to a goat roping?
Love yaaaaaaaaaa
Aubrey G Cole aka Greywolf and proud of it

Aubrey G. Cole
06-03-2006, 03:53 PM
Tarcarion where are you , jump in here and give me some help
Aubrey

BlondeyeLaurie
06-03-2006, 04:30 PM
Ha ha ha....this is NEARLY as much fun as goat roping...and ALMOST as much fun as Crawdad gigging....although gee, frogging aint half bad either. Are you craving some squirrel gravy yet? Or maybe some groundhog cabobs? Tee hee....I have a few funny tales about such...save those "morsels" for later I will. Thanks bunches and lots...I greatly appreciate your kindness. I look forward to hearing/seeing/locating MORE...getting greedy ain't I? Tarcarion must be off fishing....hope he catches only Ghar....get in here mister and help a blonde out will ya? I'm dopey and well, Aubrey's "aging"...we could use some fresh dirt on all of this! (((((hugs))))) til later~~~Laurie

Aubrey G. Cole
06-03-2006, 04:51 PM
blondeyeLaurie
Well guess what,? I have done them all , caught and eaten crawfish,frogs'groundhogs,and squirrel gravy and hey gar are good eating just ask and Cajun.Just put a post on cole and bowman families look at it going to play a game of donkey basketball;
Aubrey

scylar148
06-03-2006, 11:53 PM
Does anyone have a civil war hero in their family by the name of James Jas Perkins or James Shemes?

Hope to hear from someone?
scylar148

BlondeyeLaurie
06-04-2006, 04:09 PM
Hello Anita *waves* Sorry for the delay in getting back with you but when I re-read your last post just now I found your grandma's name right on my files! I had her because of her marriage to William Jennings Gibson (1903-2003)....I have his family in one of my lines as it is. If you need further info on his family...I have them upward 9 more generations. *wink* The quick upward ancestry goes as such: Wm. Jennings Gibson's parents: Finley Gibson & Nola Florence Bryant....his parents: James Hibson & Polly MNU...his parents: Finley Gibson & Jane Gatliff...his parents: James Gibson & Mary Finley...his parents: James Thomas Gibson & Sarah Roark...hsi parents: Valentine Gibson & Elizabeth Frances Garrett...his parents: Thomas Gibson & Mary Frances Allen...his parents: Nicholas Gibson & Mary Martin<?>...his parents: Thomas Gibson & Elizabeth South (they all for a few generations downward originating in Chesquack Parrish, York Co, VA.
I hope this proves helpful for the paternal side..thank you kindly for sharing your family ascention. Take care~~~~Laurie

kathleen 6
06-06-2006, 12:54 PM
Hi, names on my mother's side are: Caywood, Courtney, Moore, Veach, Thompson, Martin, Davis, Tomlinson, Mendenhall, Shrader, Kimble/Kimbler, Cox, Mostellar, Smallwood, Berry, Rickabaugh, Griffith, Haley to name a few.

My father's side: Christian, Ford/Faure, Chastain, Bondurant, Leake, Batman/Bateman, Lewellyn, Vernon, Powers, Austin, Lemmon/Lemon, Reed, McCartney, Baylor, Woodson, Tucker, Winston, Mask, Ferris, Larcome, Browne, Hambleton, Hickman, Isbell, Ketchum, Tinsley, Chisholm, Cooke, Webber, Eastham, Thacker, Conway, Eltonhead, Dabney.
I will be happy to share what information I have on these families.

Kathleen

davisforever67
06-07-2006, 10:21 AM
To add to the previous surnames...
The Hunt line married into Smith, Taylor, Butler, Hunter, Graves, Etc. and the Allen into Hudson, Melton, White, Howard (that's Hunt and Howard as well as Allen and Howard) Scott, Bruce, Coleman, Richardson, Owen, Grant, Pulliam, Burton, Lewis, Anderson, Rhodes and Lowery and who knows who all as the families were so large...Sue J


Hello, I saw the name Melton in your post. My mother was a Melton. I joined this forum to find out information on my father's surname, Davis but I saw your post and had to reply. My brother has researched and found a lot of information on the Melton's of North Carolina. I think his databases are still available if you'd like to see those.

Blessings and love!

saj
06-07-2006, 01:39 PM
Lisa,
I would love to see the databases. I have tried to look at not only my very direct line but who siblings married as well..then you get a more rounded picture of all the intermingling going on. Thanks, Saj

davisforever67
06-07-2006, 02:43 PM
Lisa,
I would love to see the databases. I have tried to look at not only my very direct line but who siblings married as well..then you get a more rounded picture of all the intermingling going on. Thanks, Saj


I'll see if I still have them saved to my favorites, if not I'll get them from my brother.

Ed Yancey
06-08-2006, 10:48 AM
Sag, and Lisa: this may have no interest or connection but when I read the name Melton in your list I went into my stored items. My grandfather purchased a trunk at a sale sometimes between 1900 and 1920. Items in that trunk included a Bible which was then in rough condition and so it was always kept in a safe place in our home only to be viewed on occassion. I now have it -- a Church of England Bible printed in 1761. We have always considered it a Melton family bible as on the largest free space just before the New Testament is written in beautiful scrip John Melton. At the top of that page is written Joanna Melton Wells(if we read it right). Below towards the bottom is written Henry Melton was born 17 day of April_______
Hrny Y Melton was born on 17 of ___________
The page before this is used for birth entries:
Liza Melton Daughter of Susannah Melton was born on 11th day of April 1813 on Sunday about 2 oclock. Then follows:
Agnes hestor was born 17 day of January 1790
Elizabeth hestor was Born the 8 day of November 1791
________hestor was born the 6 of April 1793
henry hestor was born the 17 of April 1794
Location of this bible upon purchase would have been in lower Halifax County or Mecklenburg County Virginia along the Virginia-Carolina line or Northern Granville County.
This may have no connection or fit any names for anyone out there but since you brought up the Melton name I thought I would share it. Ed

davisforever67
06-08-2006, 06:00 PM
Sag, and Lisa: this may have no interest or connection but when I read the name Melton in your list I went into my stored items. My grandfather purchased a trunk at a sale sometimes between 1900 and 1920. Items in that trunk included a Bible which was then in rough condition and so it was always kept in a safe place in our home only to be viewed on occassion. I now have it -- a Church of England Bible printed in 1761. We have always considered it a Melton family bible as on the largest free space just before the New Testament is written in beautiful scrip John Melton. At the top of that page is written Joanna Melton Wells(if we read it right). Below towards the bottom is written Henry Melton was born 17 day of April_______
Hrny Y Melton was born on 17 of ___________
The page before this is used for birth entries:
Liza Melton Daughter of Susannah Melton was born on 11th day of April 1813 on Sunday about 2 oclock. Then follows:
Agnes hestor was born 17 day of January 1790
Elizabeth hestor was Born the 8 day of November 1791
________hestor was born the 6 of April 1793
henry hestor was born the 17 of April 1794
Location of this bible upon purchase would have been in lower Halifax County or Mecklenburg County Virginia along the Virginia-Carolina line or Northern Granville County.
This may have no connection or fit any names for anyone out there but since you brought up the Melton name I thought I would share it. Ed

Hello and thank you for this information. None of the names mentioned seem familiar to me. My brother has done a lot of research on the Melton and Gentry families in our heritage. I'm more interested in finding out information on my Thomas and Davis heritage. I mentioned the databases for another member of the forum.

Angela
06-11-2006, 11:50 AM
I just joined the forum in hopes of finding more information on my father's paternal ancestry. They are most recently from Tennessee (Hamilton, Monroe, Loudon, Roane and maybe Blount counties), most having migrated there from NC counties of Haywood, Macon, Swain, Graham, Jackson, Cherokee and Buncombe.

Paternal Surnames: Myers, Hyde, Fox, Johnson, Kirkland, Leatherwood, Walker

Working backwards beginning with his father:

1) James Myers b. approx. 1910 in either Monroe or Loudon Cty, TN

2) James Myers' parents: James M. Myers m. Mary Sudie Hyde; Other children of James & Sudie: Mae M. Boles, Tene Myers, Maud M. Bradley

Hit Myers' Brickwall beyond James M. Myers.

3) Mary Sudie Hyde's parents: John L. Hyde (b. abt 1852 Cherokee Cty, NC) m. Elizabeth Fox (b. abt 1850); Other children of John Hyde & Elizabeth Fox: Lillie H. Walters, Nan Yell, Rosa H. Johnson, John Hyde, Nicholas Hyde

4) Elizabeth Fox's parents: Elizabeth Louisa Johnson (b. abt 1821, NC) m. Isaac Fox (b. Indiana, according to census)

Hit Fox Brickwall beyond Isaac Fox.

I have additional info on Elizabeth Johnson's family that goes back to Jamestown. Includes surnames York, Durham, Aldridge, Symons, Seymour, Magnum, Smoot, Wood, Allen, Johnston

5) John L. Hyde's parents: William Hyde (b. 1816, NC) m. Elizabeth Ann Kirkland (b. 1829, TN or NC).

6) William Hyde's parents: Benjamin Hyde (b. 1772, NC) m. Elizabeth Rebecca Leatherwood (b. 1783, NC)

Elizabeth Rebecca Leatherwood's parents: Edward Leatherwood (b. 1754, VA) m. Betsy "Quaty" Walker (b. abt 1755), full-blooded Cherokee??

7) Elizabeth Ann Kirkland's parents: William Kirkland (b. 1803, NC) m. Mary "Polly" Walker (b. abt 1812, NC)

I would appreciate any information on these families and their Native American relationships.

Angela

Red Metis
06-18-2006, 12:02 AM
Hi,
Just quickly posting my surnames on father's side:

Brown--Virginia (not sure of county)
Jenkins--not sure of origin but children born in Florida
Bryant--North Carolina (not sure of county)
possibly Cook as well

Back to bed....

Red Metis
06-18-2006, 12:03 AM
Also: Robinson--South Carolina/North Carolina border
Hales

tarcarion
06-24-2006, 09:09 PM
All,
Here is a link to a site that has a wealth of info and names of FPC and Indians in the early colonies. All the links are interesting but I found the Colonial Tax Lists, Census, etc. very interesting. You'll find all the names that most of us are looking for on this list; Collins, Gibson, Goins, Harris, Cole, Bowman, Anderson, to name just a few. You can also order the book which is kind of "pricey" but I'm sure well worth it.

Jim

tarcarion
06-24-2006, 09:11 PM
And here's the link:

http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/

Jim

louise1024
06-28-2006, 10:29 PM
Thanks for the info, but most of it I already knew. William Goslin, and James Madison Brackeen both died in 1887, supposedly that is the same time my Belzora, Melzora Elizabeth died but I can't find anything on her death much less of where she is buried. Eliza was William Daniel Brackeens mother she died shortly after his birth, so the line of children for James Madison is half to William Daniel Brackeen. I don't know if I should just give up looking for her or continue, seems like it is not meant for me to know. John C. Boyd did marry a Martha Booth they ended up in Clovis New Mexico. I guess my next trip will be there so I can pull his will and probate papers and hope that he has Belzora's name down so I will know exactly who I am looking for. He did leave my ggrandma minerals to a piece of land there, but that is all I know. Thanks for all you have done
Louise

anitabingamon
07-19-2006, 01:00 AM
On my mother's side of the family:

Hall = from NC to SE KY = 1840-Present
Newman = from NC; TN and SE KY = 1812 to late 1890s
Miller = NC to SE KY 1850
Branstutter = From Austria (1500s) to Germany, pos. TN and SE KY
Wilson = Tn; KY
Payne = VA; KY
Stewart = NC; VA; Scotland
Harrison = NC
Harrison = NY; Cheshire, England
Wright = NY; MA; Norfolk, England
Wright = NY;Middlesex, England
Townsend = NY; Norwick, North England
Montgomery = Ireland
Newgate
Coles
Nelson = Norfolk, England
Gilbert; Gylbert = Norfolk, England
Beaupre
Oney = VA
Offill
Wallen
Mosley, Mosely, Moseley = Pos. VA or NC; TN; SE KY
Alford, Halford = Ny, NC; VA; NC;
Lunsford = KY
McCabe = KY
Jones = NC
Brown = SE KY

Sorry this was so long. Good thing I didn't add my Dad's side of the family to this too, as I know more about and have more on his side of the family. :eek:

anitabingamon
07-23-2006, 02:34 PM
Now THIS is the side of the family where I get my Blackfoot/Saponi ancestry.

Gibson = SE KY, TN, VA (back to 1629), England (poss Northumberland area
near the border of Scotland


Gibson-connected Surnames

Bryant[B] = Knox Co, KY (brickwall before 1864)
[B]Watkins = Botetourt, VA, to Knox Co., KY (early 1800s)
Rose =
Harris =
Baker =
Jeffers-Jeffcoat =
Gatliff =
Walker
Wilcoxson
Boone = Devonshire, England
Morgan = Bala, Wales



Logan-connected Surnames

Meek-Meeks
Taylor
Farris
Ward
Blakely = Ireland
Wright = SE Ky, VA

I have more surnames, but my PAF program has eaten them up. GGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Anita B. Aka Sparrow

anitabingamon
07-23-2006, 04:42 PM
Now THIS is the side of the family where I get my Blackfoot/Saponi ancestry.



Gibson-connected Surnames

Gibson = SE KY, TN, VA (back to 1629), England (poss Northumberland area
near the border of Scotland
Bryant[B] = Knox Co, KY (brickwall before 1864)
[B]Rose
Watkins = Botetourt, VA, 1769; to Knox Co., KY 1842
Harris = KY bef 1853;
Baker =
Jeffers-Jeffcoat =
Gatliff =
Walker
Wilcoxson
Boone = Devonshire, England
Morgan = Bala, Wales
Finley = NC
Roark = NC 1750
Garrett = B 1723
Allen = VA, English Colony, b. abt 1642
South-Bouth = b. 1626



Logan-connected Surnames

LoganSE Ky, Tn. VA, abt 1750; Scotland 1360
Meek-Meeks = 1838-aft 1887,
Taylor =
Farris = KY b. 1813
Ward = KY d. 1827
Blakely = VA, Ireland
Richmont = Scotland, or Ulster, Ireland b. 1680
Lindsey = Scotland b. aft 1611
= Scotland b. 1611
[B]Kerr = Scotland b.1596
Ker = Scotland d. 1536
Gray Scotland b.1546
Home = Scotland b. abt 1506
Livingstone = Scotland
Somerville = Scotland
Stewart = Scotland
DeListalric
De Ross =
Hepburn
Forbes
Wright = SE Ky, 1795-present ;VA, 1660-1765
Calhoun-Calhoon = Ky 1815
Peyton = Lincoln Co., KY or Stafford Co., VA 1762-1764 to 1831
Bussell-Russell = VA around 1728
Ellis = VA 1661-1759
Hawkins = VA 1713-1773
Underwood = VA 1681
Edwards
Hill
Puryer-Pryor
Harding = Henrico Co., VA 1744

Anita B. Aka Sparrow

Thought I would add onto my list, since got my PAF working again - somewhat.:rolleyes:

Linda
07-24-2006, 11:04 PM
Wow, that's quite a line up of names I'm SO familiar with, either as Blackfoot identified, or Saponi -- Gibson, Harris, Jeffers (Jeffries), Walker, Allen. It makes you realize why some Ohio and Missouri Saponi consider the two -- (Eastern) Blackfoot and Saponi -- synonomous.

anitabingamon
07-25-2006, 12:53 AM
Linda,
I have wondered about my gr-grandmother Nolia Bryant. I was told she was part Cherokee by my dad (who's deceased), my cousin says Grandma Nolia was French, and I wondered if there was a chance Grandma Bryant could have also been Blackfoot/Saponi in addition to my dad's mother who is supposed to have been one-half to one-fourth Blackfoot. Rhody Harris is Grandma Nolia's grandmother. Rhody was born 12 Oct 1812 in Grainger Co., TN and died in Knox Co., KY on 6 Jan 1853.

It has taken a few years to compile that list. Even though I have brick walls with some of my family branches, I am sure there are even more family lines for me to find. :)

Anita B. aka Sparrow

White Hawk
07-30-2006, 12:26 AM
I saw your list and have many of the same names. Hill, Walker, and Allen names are in my family. I have a Pryor Lee Hill in the family tree. Though, I was told the Prior lee part came from a famous person of the period and was not a 'family' name.

I am curious about your Hill line. Would you provide more info, maybe we have a connection.

anitabingamon
07-30-2006, 04:39 PM
Hey White Hawk,

Thanks for your reply to my post. My Francis Wright, b. around 1660, in Middlesex Co., VA was married to a Mary "Ann" Hill. She was born around 1663 in Lancaster Co., VA, died around 1720, Lancaster Co., Va. Her parents were Charles and Mary LNU (Last Name Unknown) Hill, no dates, no place. That's all the info I have on me at this time. I guess this winter, I need to do some more research... :)

My Walker line is connected to my Gibson line. My first Finley Gibson married Jane Gatliff. Her nother was a Walker, whose mother was a Wilcoxson, who's mother was Sarah Cassandra Boone, sister of Daniel Boone.

I don't have anything on my Allen line yet, except that she married one of my direct Gibson line ancestors.

Anita B. aka Sparrow

storyteller
07-30-2006, 11:07 PM
Hi Saj,

I don't know if you're still around. This is a reply to an old post. Maybe you've gotten past this. While searching through the forums today I found mention of your Hurt ancestor. Moses Hurt, I believe.

This is what I have found--not all verified but closing in on it.


Descendants of John Hurt


Generation No. 1

1. JOHN1 HURT was born Abt. 1700 in King William Co, VA, and died Bef. 25 May 1754. He married MARGARET UNKNOWN. She was born Abt. 1700, and died 1755.

Children of JOHN HURT and MARGARET UNKNOWN are:
2. i. JOEL2 HURT, b. Abt. 1738, Pamunkey Neck, King William Co, VA; d. Aft. 1815, Greene Co, GA.
3. ii. MOSES HURT, b. 1718, Pamunkey Neck, King William Co, VA; d. 1806, Bedford Co, VA.
4. iii. JOHN HURT, b. Abt. 1720; d. 1796, Surrey Co, NC.
iv. JOSEPH HURT, b. Abt. 1720.
v. MARGARET HURT, b. Abt. 1720, Virginina; d. 1834, McNairy Co, TN; m. WILLIAM G GILLENTINE; b. 1745, Amelia Co, VA; d. 1786, Halifax Co, VA.
vi. TABITHA HURT, b. Abt. 1720, Pamunkey Neck, King William Co, VA; d. Bef. 1790, Halifax Co, VA; m. JOHN HENDRICK, 19 Feb 1741, Amelia Co, VA; b. Abt. 1720, Pamunkey Neck, King William Co, VA; d. Amelia Co, VA.
vii. WILLIAM HURT, b. Abt. 1720.


Generation No. 2

2. JOEL2 HURT (JOHN1) was born Abt. 1738 in Pamunkey Neck, King William Co, VA, and died Aft. 1815 in Greene Co, GA. He married (1) MARY SARAH ANDERSON. He married (2) TABITHA COLLINS 1768 in Halifax Co, VA, daughter of JAMES COLLINS and ELIZABETH GILLENTINE. She was born 1746 in Amelia Co, VA, and died 21 Sep 1821 in Spencer, KY,.

Notes for JOEL HURT:
Rev. War Patriot

Pay Roll of Capt. Jesse Clay's
Company in lower Battallion
of Militia of Wilkes Co.

Jesse Clay, Capt.
Henry English, Clerk
William Richardson, Sgt.
Walton Whatley, Sgt.
Joel Hurt, Sgt.

‘They Were Here,’ Georgia Genealogical Records, vol 1, edited by Frances
Wynd. Publ. 1965 -1971


Children of JOEL HURT and MARY ANDERSON are:
i. WILLIAM3 HURT, b. 1756; d. 1812.
ii. ELISHA HURT, b. Abt. 1758, Halifax Co, NC; d. 1829, Warren Co, GA; m. PRISCILLA BRINKLEY, Halifax Co, NC.

Notes for ELISHA HURT:
He was probably born in about 1758. he moved to Warren County, Ga. where we find him buying land there as early as 1796. He died there in 1829. His will, dated 3-24-1829, probated on 4-6-1829, and recorded in Warren County, Ga. on 5-20-1829 in Will Book 1810-1829, pages 191-194, names three children as follows: (1) Benjamin Hurt, (2) William Hurt, (3) Polly Hurt, married Austin Baker. Elisha Hurt did not mention his wife in his will, which seems to indicate that she had predeceased him. His wife's name was Priscilla Brinkley Hurt, daughter of Judith Brinkley of Halifax County, N. C. Judith Brinkley mentions Prescilla Hurt as her daughter in her will dated 6-20-1797, probated at the November 1799 Term of Court and recorded in Halifax County, N. C. in Will Book 3, page 322. (10A21)".


Children of JOEL HURT and TABITHA COLLINS are:
iii. LUCY3 HURT, b. Abt. 1770; d. Bef. 1826, Perry Co, Al /Perry Co., AL; m. PHELPS HAYNES, Abt. 1789; b. 04 Jul 1770, Bedford, Va; d. 1849, Hayne's Mill, Noxubee Co, Ms.

Notes for PHELPS HAYNES:
Rev. War Patriot

Pay Roll of Capt. Jesse Clay's
Company in lower Battallion
of Militia of Wilkes Co.

Phelps Haynes P. 122

‘They Were Here,’ Georgia Genealogical Records, vol 1, edited by Frances
Wynd. Publ. 1965 -1971

iv. WILLIAM C HURT, b. 1780, Spartanburg Co. South Carolina; d. Aft. 1850, Clarke Co, Ms; m. LUCY ANN HAYNES; b. 1785; d. Bef. 1857, Clarke Co, Ms.


3. MOSES2 HURT (JOHN1) was born 1718 in Pamunkey Neck, King William Co, VA, and died 1806 in Bedford Co, VA. He married RUTH TURNER Abt. 1748 in Caroline Co, VA.

Children of MOSES HURT and RUTH TURNER are:
i. JAMES3 HURT.
ii. ELISHA HURT.
iii. NATHAN HURT.
iv. WILLIAM HURT.
v. LITTLEBERRY HURT.
vi. MARY HURT.
vii. APPHIA HURT, m. MICAHAH STONE, Aft. 1771, Bedford Co, VA.
viii. BETHSHEBA HURT, b. 1765, Bedford Co, VA; d. 15 May 1852, Henry Co, VA; m. STEPHEN TURNER STONE, Bedford Co, VA.


4. JOHN2 HURT (JOHN1) was born Abt. 1720, and died 1796 in Surrey Co, NC. He married MARY POLLY KING.

Children of JOHN HURT and MARY KING are:
i. JOEL3 HURT.
ii. JOHN HURT.
iii. WILLIAM HURT.
iv. ROBERT KING HURT.
v. CHARLES HURT.
vi. ELIZABETH HURT.
vii. JAMES HURT.
viii. SARA HURT.
ix. MARTHA HURT.
x. THOMAS HURT.
My ancestor was Joel Hurt who married Tabitha Collins. They had a daughter. Lucy Hurt who married Phelps Haynes.

storyteller

saj
07-31-2006, 03:26 PM
Hi Storyteller!
Thanks for the info. Looks like another connection here. I noticed in the Welcome section you had posted surnames and one was Hanks. Have you seen the info on the Hanks on the melungeon.com website? Two of Memucan Allens (one of my lines) children married into the Hanks family in Ky. Elizabeth married Chichester (married a Penney too) and Joseph married Lucy Hanks. Interesting! What Hanks do you have? Saj

Saponi 1
07-31-2006, 05:57 PM
Saj,

I didn't realize you were a Hurt. I have Hurts from Pittsylvania County, VA.
Also, I have Byrd. In fact interestingly enough Robert Byrd was bound out to Moses Hurt:

http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/Brooks_Byrd.htm


iv. ?Robert2, born about 1759, called a "free Mulatto" on 26 February 1767 when the Amelia County court ordered the churchwardens of Nottoway Parish to bind him to Moses Hurt, Jr. [Orders 1766-9, 36]. He was head of a Pittsylvania County household of 6 "free colored" in 1820 [VA:781]. He registered in Pittsylvania County on 11 September 1822: a bright Mulatto Man about sixty three years of age about five feet three inches high, he has black hair nearly straight somewhat mixed with grey hairs [Griffith, Pittsylvania County Register of Free Negroes, no. 35].

Have you checked the Dawes Rolls, there were a few Hurts.

storyteller
07-31-2006, 11:52 PM
Hi saj,

I've read some of the info on the Hanks on the melungeon sites. I was lucky early on because I have a "genealogy angel" out there. I had only the name of my great-grandmother on that side of the family and nothing else for sure--just some rumors. I posted what I knew (and suspected) on a couple of message boards and my great-grandmother's nephew sent me an email 2 days before Christmas! He told me who she was, gave me tons of information about her, and even told me my great-grandfather's name (I guess so that I would know that he was on the "up and up". A number of years ago, Adin Baber published a book called "The Hanks Family of Virginia & Westward". He died several years ago and his daughter decided to do an updated version of it a couple of years ago. My "angel" was the co-author of the revised edition. We've been in contact since then. The Hanks are originally from England. My line lived in MD for a while and then started heading south. Peter Hanks II was born in MD and married Elizabeth Wyatt from VA. Their son, also Peter, was born in VA, married Isabel Stewart from NC, went to IN and was killed at Tippacanoe. His oldest son, Wyatt Hanks was born in NC, lived in IN, married Hannah Gates from Kentucky, and moved to AR before settling in TX. A couple of his brothers followed him as well as his widowed mother (after a brief unsuccessful remarriage!)

I have the book. I'll look up your ancestors.

storyteller :)

storyteller
08-01-2006, 11:28 PM
iv. ?Robert2, born about 1759, called a "free Mulatto" on 26 February 1767 when the Amelia County court ordered the churchwardens of Nottoway Parish to bind him to Moses Hurt, Jr. [Orders 1766-9, 36]. He was head of a Pittsylvania County household of 6 "free colored" in 1820 [VA:781]. He registered in Pittsylvania County on 11 September 1822: a bright Mulatto Man about sixty three years of age about five feet three inches high, he has black hair nearly straight somewhat mixed with grey hairs [Griffith, Pittsylvania County Register of Free Negroes, no. 35].

Have you checked the Dawes Rolls, there were a few Hurts.

Hi Saponi 1,

I tried your link but must have gotten sidetracked. I'm self-diagnosed with ADD. I never found this particular paragraph. By the way, how do "you check the Dawes Rolls"? (I'm new to this.) BUT, I did find another site that was interesting. Maybe someone else posted it on this forum...hum.
You follow the links and can see the names of the "black Indians" of different tribes. It has most of the surnames from my maternal grandmother's side of the family on at least one of the lists (and sometimes on several of the lists!)

http://www.melungeons.com/genealogy/blackindianslist.htm

Now I need to learn how to properly use the "Indian Rolls".

storyteller:p

storyteller
08-06-2006, 02:18 AM
Two of Memucan Allens (one of my lines) children married into the Hanks family in Ky. Elizabeth married Chichester (married a Penney too) and Joseph married Lucy Hanks.

Hi Saj,

I just got the chance to look at my book on the Hanks family. I found your Allens. Chichester Hanks was married to Elizabeth Allen. Joseph Allen married Lucy Hanks who was the daughter of Pitman Hanks---Chichester's brother. Both Chichester and Pitman were from Luke Hanks' line. They were 1st cousins to Abraham Hanks, the grandfather of Abraham Lincoln.

source: "The Hanks Family of Virginia and Westward" by Adin Baber.

storyteller

Linda
08-06-2006, 09:26 AM
I've been thinking Lincoln's looks kind of reminded me of what I've seen of some mixed blooded folks.

storyteller
08-07-2006, 06:11 PM
Linda,

I found a picture of a portrait of Nancy Hanks Lincoln (Abe's mother) online this morning. She did not look like any of the "white bread" ancestors that everyone says that "Americans" are descended from.

I don't know if this is allowed. I'm going to try to post the names of direct ancestors born in the Eastern U.S before 1800. Usually, I only post names for my maternal grandmother's side of the family and even then, only the most frequent or recent ones. These include some of my paternal grandmother's lines and my paternal grandfather's lines that lived in the same area. Some of the names appear more than once--this is to show how long they were in an area or a SMALL part of their "migration pattern.

Also, I kept looking for "Melungeon counties" or "Native American counties". I only realized the other night that some of these counties were formed from or became the above mentioned counties. I live in San Francisco, have never been to these places and am "geographically challenged".

Beard 1777 prob. VA
Beez 1680 Anne Arundel, MD,
Berry 1780 VA
Coley 1755 NC
Coley 1788 Sampson, NC
Collins 1746 Amelia Co, VA
Daniel 1742 Goochland Co, VA
Davis 1779 probably NC or SC
Dekle 1792 Effingham, GA
Dison 1640 VA
Echols 1676 VA
Elliott 1723 Perquimans, NC
Gates 1795 TN
Gillentine 1720 VA
Hancock 1760 GA
Hanks 1737 Anne Arundel, MD
Hanks 1673 Anne Arundel, MD,
Hanks 1707 Anne Arundel, MD,
Hanks 1630 Gloucester Co, VA
Hanks 1765 Loudoun, VA
Hanks 1795 Rutherford, NC
Hardin Abt. 1766 Rutherford Co, NC
Haynes 1770 Bedford Co, VA
Haynes 1794 Green, GA
Haynes 1701 King & Queen Co, VA
Haynes 1731 Spotsylvania, VA
Holcombe 1595
Horn Abt. 1745 Edgecombe, NC
Horn 1793 GA
Horn Bef. 1690 Nansemond Co, VA
Hurt Abt. 1738 King William Co, VA
Hurt Abt. 1700 King William Co, VA
Hyde Abt. 1799 MD
Jung 1740 PA
Kaldenbach 1752 PA
Kuntz 1737 Philadelphia, PA
Lee 1630 Gloucester, VA
Neal 1691 Edgecombe, NC
Pearson 1746 NC
Pearson 1722 Perquimans, NC
Perkinson 1685 Dinwiddie, VA
Perkinson 1713 Henrico Co, VA
Perkinson 1670 Henrico Co., VA
Perry 1810 GA
Phelps 1706 Bedford Co, VA
Phelps 1732 Goochland Co, VA
Phelps 1683 Goochland, VA
Phelps 1665 Goochland, VA
Pride 1686 Henrico Co, VA
Pride 1642 Henrico, VA
Pritlowe 1699 Perquimans, NC
Ratcliff 1775 Kershaw, SC
Ratcliff Abt. 1730 Talbot Co, MD
Ratcliff 1700 Talbot Co, Md
Smith Abt. 1708 Gloucester Co, VA
Smith 1662 Middlesex Co, VA
Stewart 1774 Rutherford, NC
Traylor 1670 Henrico Co, VA
Traylor 1733 Henrico Co., VA
Traylor 1798 Macon Co., GA
Traylor 1761 VA
Vivian 1684 Middlesex Co, VA
Vivion 1655 Middlesex Co, VA
Watkins 1712 Henrico Co, VA
Watkins 1637 Henrico Co, VA
Watkins 1678 Henrico Co, VA
Wyatt 1747 Loudoun, VA
Young (Jung) 1778 Montgomery Co, PA

storyteller :)

Linda
08-07-2006, 08:32 PM
Do you have the link to that picture of Mary Hanks Lincoln?

DAJ42
08-07-2006, 08:45 PM
Adding some more surnames to the overall list...

Originating in Nansemond County, Virginia and marrying into the Gabriel Holland family after 1620.
Holland (Nansemond VA to Greene Co GA to near Lawrence Co Indiana), Winburn, Edmunds, Rickman, McBee or Duncan, Foster.

The Licking County, Ohio, bunch. Data from 1760.
Green (RI to Maryland to VA to Licking County), Rhoads, Beem, Pitzner.

Todd Family Data from 1760.
Todd ) PA to Maryland to Tazewell CO VA to Madison Co Kentucky to Lawrence CO Indiana), Sipes (or Seip), Brooks, Helton, Henderson, Allen

The Moravian folks Data from 1787.
Klaiss (or Kleis, Kliess, Kleizs, Klaas, etc), Young (Jung), Johnson (see below). (Klaiss and Jung from PA to Seneca County Ohio, to Melmore, Iowa, to Osceola, MO)

Johnson Family Data from 1790s
Johnson (from Scotland to NC to VA to Pike Co OH, to Wapello Co Iowa, to Republic Co Kansas) Adkinson, Houk (includes Conner), Jung (see above), Bowen.

Quakers from SE VA and NE NC. Data from 1560
About a gazillion surnames, exhaustively researched, no suspected Indian connection. Major lines include Pearson, Winslow, Baldwin, Hollowell, Clare.

Jones Family. Data from 1660s.
Jones (Va to Kentucky to Brown Co Ohio.) Dye, Applegate, Laycock, Park, Davis, Shields.

Lines with strongly suspected Indian connections are Holland and the Jung/Klaiss Moravians. The Hollands likely have SE VA/NC connections through Ester Edmunds, as well as the Winburn and Rickman lines. Possible connections include the Green, Todd and Henderson lines. In depth details to follow as time allows in new threads specific to each line.

techteach
08-07-2006, 08:56 PM
You better add your Greens as suspected NA. I am convinced we have to be connected, given that our Greens were both in the same areas. My Greens were Shawnee.

Techteach

PS: I also have Rhoads too. I have been suspicious of that line, but I can't prove or disprove it. The MtDNA test was European, but that does not account for all of lines. And my Rhoads were in Fort Wayne in 1814. Joseph is buried in Tuscarawas County, OH.

DAJ42
08-07-2006, 09:14 PM
Thanks, Techteach, I've made that change. You're right, those locations for our Greens are too numerous for it to be coincidental. Wouldn't surprise me if the Shawnee got "edited out" of my family tree.

I showed a photo of both great grandfather Johnson and his wife, a Beem descendant of the Green and Rhoads lines, to a coworker. The immediate reaction I got was "They're part Indian, aren't they?" Great grandfather's mother was from the Klaiss/Jung Moravian line.

roca
08-07-2006, 09:28 PM
I've been thinking Lincoln's looks kind of reminded me of what I've seen of some mixed blooded folks.

Re:Message #218

Linda,you're not the 1st to say that!

In the series "Sex and Race" by J.A. Rogers (AA historian),Volume 2,pg. 379,(c-1942),he mentions a contest by RKO-Keith,the theatrical company,to find the man who most resembled Abraham Lincoln.

In January,1940,Thomas Bomar,Esq.,of Washington,DC was told he was the winner.

However,it came to light later on that Attorney Bomar was part-black.At
the premiere of the movie,"Abe Lincoln in Illinois",for which the contest had been sponsored as a promotional item,he sat up front.No mention was made
of the contest,RKO-Keith and others being crestfallen that Lincoln's double
turned out to be an AA.

Also,on the History Channel there was a segment on "Weird USA" either
in 2004 or 2005 about the Melungeons.(Don't misunderstand;that was the name of the series.I don't see one's ancestry as "weird".)Their segment on the Melungeons mentioned rumors that President Lincoln,Elvis Presley,and
a well-known former Hollywood actress (forgot her name) may have been
of that ethnicity.

Roca

Debi
08-07-2006, 11:00 PM
I'm working on my Dameron family but don't have very much....Can anyone help me out here?

I have: #1-John Dameron Married to Elizabeth...W.Va. don't have any dates or places on them though.
#2-Stephen Dameron b. 1850 married to Polley b. 1856.....W.VA.
#3-
John
Nathan
Minerva J. b. 1888 Logan W.VA d. May 1965


Thanks,
Debi

storyteller
08-08-2006, 12:27 AM
Hi Linda,

Here's the link that you asked about.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=8381

This is an interesting website. I looked around for photos of famous people with the same last name as my ancestors--including the Cajuns. There was an officer who served in the Civil War whose last name was Hebert (I forgot what the first name was) He definitely looked racially mixed. (I've heard that at least one of my ancestors had married a Micmac, but I've never seen any proof. Besides, I've never seen a Micmac so I don't know what they look like.)

storyteller

storyteller
08-08-2006, 12:36 AM
Their segment on the Melungeons mentioned rumors that President Lincoln,Elvis Presley,and
a well-known former Hollywood actress (forgot her name) may have been
of that ethnicity.

Roca

I believe that it was Ava Gardner who played the part of an "octaroon" in the film version of the musical "Showboat".

storyteller

Linda
08-08-2006, 08:11 AM
Ava Gardner is, if I've got the story straight, connected to what's now the Lumbee community of Robeson county.

Thanks for the link to the Mary Lincoln photo, though I have my doubts that's her. She died in 1818, before the advent of photography, and her family was too poor to have likely had a portrait done by an artist.

storyteller
08-08-2006, 01:05 PM
Hi Linda,

I don't remember where, but I have seen pictures of that same portrait before. (That's just the one that I've seen the most recently.) I don't remember how they explained there being a portrait done of her. I may be imagining it, but it seems like some one said that the portrait was kept by her son, Abe.

Now, that I think of it, there might be a copy of that portrait on the melungeon.com site. I KNOW that I've seen it before.

storyteller

Aubrey G. Cole
08-08-2006, 03:57 PM
It appears that the photo may have been a photo taken of an oil painting?
aubrey Cole

storyteller
08-08-2006, 05:00 PM
Here's another link to the portrait. Adin Baber is a descendant of the Hanks family and wrote, "The Hanks Family of Virginia & Westward.

http://www.baberfamilytree.org/photos/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=0

storyteller

storyteller
08-08-2006, 05:27 PM
Ah! Ha! I found the explanation. I knew that I had seen this portrait. But Linda's arguments were sound--I just hadn't thought about it before. I knew that it was not a photograph and hadn't thought about that no one would have had the money to do a portrait before she died. Although Abe would later have money, he didn't have any when she died.

For those who are interested, follow the link:

http://www.cr.nps.gov/NR/twhp/wwwlps/lessons/126libo/126visual5.htm

storyteller

Linda
08-08-2006, 10:51 PM
Thanks for taking the time to find this. Looking at it close, it definitely does look like a modern painted portrait. I hope I didn't put you through too much trouble, or sound like I was challenging your data in any significant way.

storyteller
08-09-2006, 03:27 AM
No problem, Linda! If I would have thought about it, I would have come up with the same arguments. As far as putting my through too much trouble, I should have checked it out again before I mentioned it. Sometimes, I get excited as a young puppy about something and you have to tap me on the nose with a newspaper to get my attention.

storyteller

lentz of nc
08-11-2006, 12:48 PM
I didnt relize how much research I had not done thought i would add to my list of new knowledge
Robbins N.C Anderson N.C /S.C
Maddox Va/N.C Reaves Brunswick N.C
Battle Va
Horn Edgecombe county N.C Morris Edgecombe N.C
Sellers Edgecombe N.C Pender Ga
Williams Edgecombe N.C Taylor Edgecombe N.C
Sawyers Greene County G.A Wilson Autaga County Ga
Dew Nash N.C Parker Walton County Ga
Horn N.C Va Daws

Just thought I would update my knew knowledge under surnames :) :)

storyteller
08-12-2006, 01:00 PM
Hi Lentz of NC,

My maternal grandmother’s father’s name was Joe BEARD. His mother’s name was Mary Frances HAYNES. She was born in 1856 in Jasper Co, TX. Her father was born in AL and married a woman Mary Ann HORN who was born in GA. Her father was Aurin Goodgame HORN. His father was Moses HORN (Jr.) who seems to have been married twice. From what I’ve seen, Aurin was supposedly from a mother other than Moses’ legal wife. However, I’ve read that, after the death of the first wife, Moses married Aurin’s mother (or at least recognized his son from the union) Aurin’s mother was named Sally GOODGAME. And Aurin, in records, went from being called Aurin Horn GOODGAME to being called Aurin Goodgame HORN. (This was the first line where I suspected NA ancestry, but I haven’t been able to find “proof”.)

Anyway, I have that Moses HORN (Jr.) was born in Edgecombe Co, NC. Moses HORN Sr. died in Edgecombe Co, NC, but I don’t know where he was born. I have that his father, William was born in Nansemond Co, VA and died in Edgecombe Co, NC. I have suspected siblings of both Moses’ HORN’s, but haven’t been able to verify all of them. Moses HORN Sr.’s siblings seem to have all died around Edgecombe, Wayne, & Bertie Co, NC.

Mary Frances HAYNES’ family also seems to have migrated from King & Queen Co, VA (in the mid-1700s) through Spotsylvania, Caroline, Orange, and Bedford Counties, VA. They kept on going through to several counties in GA, MS, and finally to East TX. (They were there by the mid-1800s.)

Are we cousins?

:D
Karen

Rebecca
08-12-2006, 07:11 PM
Thanks for doing this again.

Good evening, Of record my family are listed as "Pleasants".
Our surnames are Coleman, Rice, Lacks and Collins on moms side. All from Halifax County Virginia. Great great grand mother Ellen Rice and John Coleman. ------ daughter Mary Coleman (Rice) maiden name.

Richard Pleasant(Collins)

My dads surnames- "Burns" from GA and "Brown" from Hanover County Virginia.

I'm having a hard time tracking down my great, great grandmother who was reported to be Monacan. She married a William Coleman (probably from Amherst). The problem is I have no idea what her surname was as the family refused to let the family Bible be shown because *gasp* there was an Indian in it. The grandmother's name was said to have been Amanda, but in the census records she was listed as Pamelia.

I had a hard time accepting that the family referred to her as "the brown one" and were so insistent on keeping her heritage a secret, but considering the Plecker Law that came into being I guess it was somewhat due to protecting the family from being labelled as black. Not to mention William's brother was a slave owner and supposedly his marrying an Indian caused a big split in the family and between the brothers.

Have you by any chance come across any William Coleman's in your ancestry? Jesse Coleman? Amanda or Pamelia or Amelia Coleman?

saj
08-13-2006, 01:19 PM
Hi to all!
Just got back from Canada. So late in replying to this.
Saponi I that is really interesting...the Hurt info.
And the Hanks..thanks Storyteller. I know that Chichester and Elizabeth Hanks are buried in the Old Salt River Baptist church cemetery in Anderson co Ky. I thought this Hanks family came from Va. North Farnham? Need to search a bit more...saj

lentz of nc
08-13-2006, 04:03 PM
I will give you what I have, I havent searched the Horn name as much as Robbins I have David Micheal Horn (B) 1721-1790 married a Laurney Robbins
They had a few children Absolom, Elias,Caswell, Micheal, Delilah, Dicey, Charity, Polly, Bersheba. I khow that Caswell Horn married a lady name Polly They had Martha Ann 1832, Harriet Jane 1834, jane Delilah 1836, James Richard 1838, Joseph Ceswell 1844, William Thomas 1847, Ann Louise 1848
This is what I know so far . Let me know what you think!:) Nice meeting you
Lentz:)

storyteller
08-13-2006, 06:43 PM
I have David Micheal Horn (B) 1721-1790 married a Laurney Robbins
They had a few children Absolom, Elias,Caswell, Micheal, Delilah, Dicey, Charity, Polly, Bersheba. I khow that Caswell Horn married a lady name Polly They had Martha Ann 1832, Harriet Jane 1834, jane Delilah 1836, James Richard 1838, Joseph Ceswell 1844, William Thomas 1847, Ann Louise 1848
Lentz:)

Nice meeting you too Lentz. I have William Horn of Nansemond Co, VA (born bef. 1790) who married Margaret Mae Neal (b. 1791) in Edgecombe Co, NC. Although it says that they both died in NC, I have that they married in VA and the first 2 of 8 children seem to have been born in VA. I haven't found where the rest were born. Most or all of them seemed to have died in Edgecombe, Bertie, & Wayne Co, NC. Of course this could be wrong. My ancestor was Moses Horn (1719-1782). No place of birth, but he died in Edgecombe Co. I show that he had a younger named David Michael Horn. I show that his wife's name was Luraney Robbins. I don't show any of their children. I looked to see if any of the names of their children showed up as family names in my lines. I thought that I had seen another Absolom and/or Bersheba somewhere, but couldn't find them. I do have 4 Delilahs. Only one was a Horn--she was the 3rd great-grandniece of David Michael. Two were Delilah Haynes (My Horns frequently married into the Haynes) And one Delilah Greer. (The Greers were also popular marriage partners among that set.) :rolleyes:

storyteller

storyteller
08-13-2006, 07:08 PM
. Chichester Hanks was married to Elizabeth Allen. Joseph Allen married Lucy Hanks who was the daughter of Pitman Hanks---Chichester's brother. Both Chichester and Pitman were from Luke Hanks' line. They were 1st cousins to Abraham Hanks, the grandfather of Abraham Lincoln.

source: "The Hanks Family of Virginia and Westward" by Adin Baber.

storyteller

Hi Saj,

In reading your response and in re-reading my posting, I see that I probably wasn't very clear. Let me try this again in a different way.

Luke Hanks had several children. Most of his children were born in or around Richmond County VA. and more than a couple of them migrated to Kentucky. Among them were Abraham Hanks and a son named Turner Hanks. Abraham was the father of Nancy Hanks Lincoln. Turner Hanks became the father of Chichester Hanks (who married Elizabeth Allen) and Pitman Hanks (who became the father of Lucy Hanks wife of Joseph Allen).

I'm sorry if I haven't been clear.

storyteller

lentz of nc
08-14-2006, 08:33 AM
Hello Storyteller! I looked under Greer and Horn again. Atleast we have the
Robinns marriage in common so there was a link there:) I checked out the name Greer this is what I have Mary Caladina Greer (b) 1876 (m) 1896 to
Owen Christopher Burriss (b) 1865 then a Gladys Greer(b) 1887 married a
Roger Burris (b) 1885 then a Florence Greer (b)1877 married a Robert Brown Burriss(b) 1873 / I looked under Horn again there was a William Thomas Horn (b) Oct 6 1839 his parents were Caswell Horn (b) 1803 Edgecombe and Mary Ann Taylor (b) 1811 I guess we might be a long distant cousin ha! ha!:) See if this helps any. Oh! when you said in your post his younger Dah! Did you mean brother. I was not sure .

storyteller
08-14-2006, 12:00 PM
Oh! when you said in your post his younger Dah! Did you mean brother.

Lentz,

I went back to read the post again, I saw what you were talking about.:o

Yes, I meant that was his younger brother. I KNOW that that word was in there when I sent the message! The "cyber-monster" must have eaten it. He plays havoc with my typing online at times.:D

And it does look like we are distant cousins.:) The Horn that married the Robbins was a sibling to my direct ancestor.

storyteller

quest for facts
08-14-2006, 01:10 PM
Hey I have Horn too!!!!!!!!

lentz of nc
08-14-2006, 01:39 PM
Hello Quest , You will have to let us know your Horn family:) By the way good to hear from you. In what I see one of the Robbins married a Horn . I know you have Robbins:) Well maybe there are more distant cousins than we thought!! Linda if you read this post Thank-You for all you have done on this
site. Bringing us together:D

quest for facts
08-14-2006, 01:48 PM
Horn and Robbins both are my grandmothers family. I'll list all her surnames that I know and we can see if there are other connections: Pridgen, Moore, Etheridge, Price, Robbins, Sessoms, Horn, Batchelor, Moonahan, Manning, Lewelyn, Wynn, Smith, Thrower, Malone, Stith, Williams, Poytress, Maddox. This is what I can remember right now.

lentz of nc
08-14-2006, 09:22 PM
Hello Quest, From what I can tell we have a few lines in common, Robbins, Bailey, Maddox, Battle, Taylor, Moore, Horn , Pridgen And I think you posted Dew at one time. What do you think!!:) It looks like 6 or 7 lines are similiar.
Good to talk to you. Who else has some of our same lines Do you happen to know::) I think you have been on this site longer than I.
Later Lentz

quest for facts
08-14-2006, 09:32 PM
Lentz,
One of my cousins has Taylor also another cousin who I also share 7 lines with has Dew as well. I have another cousin who has Dew too. Okay Lentz, Most of these are my grandmothers family (those I share in common with you) but they are also overlapping my grandfather's family too. I have a private forum I'd like for you to join so we can talk more openly send me your email address and I will send you an invitation.

lentz of nc
08-14-2006, 09:33 PM
It seems my Robbins over the years married alot of different names as I have searched in detail. I start back in the 1600's So far off my mothers side starting back then their were alot of children and marriages I will try to list all the names in case someone else has these names. I have them in chronilogical order:) Parkes , Rushold, hansford, Bailey, Maddox, Battle, Horn,
Sellers/sellars, Williams, Taylor, Moore, Sayers, Green, Dew, Reaves, Pugh, Anderson, Pridgen, Farmer, Mathis, Broswell, Slaughter, Pender, Montgomery, Swaine, Wilson, Parker, Ward, McKay, Jackson, Atkinson, Merrit, Bain, Thays, Andrews, Arnold ,Martin Alot of names but it starts in the 1600s
It seems my Robbins started around Va , but migrated to Ga and mainly the east coast of N.c :) Good thing I havent started my dads side I would be confused:rolleyes:

louise1024
12-22-2006, 12:37 AM
Thank you so much for the info, most of it I already new. William Daniel Brackeen was James Madison Brackeens first child by Eliza, she died shortly after childbirth. My William Daniel kind of got lost in with all the children born to James Madisons other wifes. I still don't have a trail to follow and it looks as if I never will find out. The info that you gave me came from the woman that told me I would find out when all was dead and gone that doesn't want the story told. I have talked to her several times and she just says the same everytime. Thank you it looks like I am just out of luck. Sorry to have bothered you. Louise