history sw va -- clinch river scouts

[vance hawkins]

http://64.4.16.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=56dedb4b950ec29f2d8af4a5fe1e45b7&lat=1053540109&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fscott%2ek12%2eva%2eus%2fh istory%2fpriorto%2ehtml

this is a very complicated web site address for a page entitled --

A HISTORY OF THE SETTLEMENT OF SOUTHWEST VIRGINIA 1400 - 1800

By: Danny Dixon

things that wewre of interest to me were the following below --

1772 - "The Clinch Scouts" (Indian Spies) are organized to keep track of Indian
activity in the region.

1773 - Jonathan Wood & James Davidson (his brother in law) move to the site of the 1st settlement in Scott Co. (Big Moccasin Valley)

1775- Alexander Ritchie (12 yrs. old) goes to Ft.Blackmore to serve as a Clinch Scout/ Indian Spy.

why would a 12 year old boy be an "Indian scout" unless he himself were Indian? Would they send a white boy to scout on Indian movements? I doubt it. I have always known some of my ancestors were "Indian" and also that some were "Indian fighters".

maybe some of the other names listed are helpful to others. Also noticed the author of the page was a Dixon, maybe related to our Dickson's, who also settled in that same area with our Wood's and if this 12 yar old Ritchey boy is one of ours, maybe they were there to.

hope this helps others

[Linda]

Is this the article? The link you have didn't work for me, but when I searched on Google for the title, this came up.

http://www.scott.k12.va.us/history/priorto.html

[Linda]

I read through this timeline to that date. As far as I know, an Indian scout has always been an Indian who was a scout. You couldn't exactly send a white boy out to spy on the Indians. And why would you put a white boy into such a dangerous position?An Indian boy, on the other hand, people might not feel that kind of responsibility towards.

A scenario does suggest itself. Some boy who's been indentured or apprenticed is brought from the east to help inform on Indian movements during that time of warfare with the Cherokee.

Does there seem to be any way to contact the author and get the references for the orginal source material? Personally, I would think that unless somebody has some specific information about the Clinch scouts to the contrary, that you've found some documentation of Indians by the name of Ritchie.

[Dan Akin]

Howdy Vance;
I may have referred to this before but you should check out "Examining Melungeon History and Geneology" by Jack Goins. He mentions the Ramps, mixed Indian families, around Fort Blackmore in Scott County Va.
Please let me pick through some of his article. "In my research journey I backtracked the Melungeons from the Clinch River, to the New River, to the Flat River and the Pawmunkey.... they migrated with the other pioneer settlers and they owned land in all these places. They lived next door to white settlers and had adjoining farms. They went to the same churches and schools, intermarried with all their neighbors, fought in the same wars,..."
This is exactly what my Green family did.
Again in another part; "This part of Saponia (Monasukapanough) Indians left that country and some of these may have been the same group that formed the settlement near Hillsborough, North Carolina in 1750."
And again; "According to my research of known Mellungeon families, the Ramps of Fort Blackmore were related to the families that became known as Mellungeons. Oddly the term Mellungeon may have began in Fort Blackmore and later the term Ramps were placed on their kinfolks who remained in Fort Blackmore. Ramptown, known by the locals is located between Fort Blackmore and Dungannon, in Scott County, Va."
The address is http://www.melungeons.com/articles/melungeon_history_and_geneology.htm
Dan Akin.

[vance hawkins]

http://64.4.16.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=be0113ab7111d3d2c6cf8bc55befec5e&lat=1053626704&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fscott%2ek12%2eva%2eus%2fh istory%2fpriorto%2ehtml

to Linda & others --

Here is the whole link.

I think thre are slight variations in the link you found and this one. I didn't realize when I cut & pasted it from e-mail it wasn't all there. This time I went to the web site and cut & pasted the whole thing. Maybe they are identical & I just miscopied it the tirst time.

Interesting to me is I had already traced my "Wood" ancestors to this area near Clinch River, to Holston. Also we are descended from the Guest's (various spellings) and Looney's and Brown's, our Cherokee ancestors. ALL these ancestors wer ALSO near this place, as Holston and Clinch are side by side. Since a Dickson married a Wood, the descendant of a Dickson was here. Now we have found a Richey here! And both our Richey's and Wood ancestors went to Indiana where they married in 1817 and are listed in early Indiana marriages book.

Now the Brown/Guess/Looney ancestors went to Winston/Walker/Lawrence Counties (eventually) in Alabama and we just came back from a visit there. Every one there KNOWS the first settlers there were mixed bloods and the state recognized "Echota Cherokees" are descended from them!

Well, these people later went to Arkansas and married our Woods/Richey line there. These families who appear to have been together just south and East of present day Knoxville in 1780's or so later pop up in Lawrence County, Arkansas (near towns named Powhatan and Pocahantas, sp?) and the 2 branches marry there in the 1870s.

Now I have to show a link between this 12 year old Clinch River Scout and our Richey's, but since other families in that area went to Indiana, I thought it possible that some members of this group of Richey's might have gone there too.

I would very much like to get in contact with the author of this article. :) I also want to find out more about these "Clinch Indian Scouts" hired to watch the Chickamaugas and their Shawnee allies under Logan & their movements.

It is interesting to think that a descendant of the Scouts married a descendant of the Chickamaugans 100 years after these events . . . but again I have to find a better connection between this scout and my Richey's.

I hope some names listed here can help others, too.

vance

[vance hawkins]

http://64.4.16.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=be0113ab7111d3d2c6cf8bc55befec5e&lat=1053626704&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fscott%2ek12%2eva%2eus%2fh istory%2fpriorto%2ehtml

i'll trty this again

for some reason it keeps cutting out the middle

[vance hawkins]

http://64.4.16.250/cgi-

bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=be0113ab7111d3d2c6cf8bc55befec5e&lat=1053626704&hm___action=http%3

hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fscott%2ek12%2eva%2eus%2fh istory%2fpriorto%2ehtml

if this doesn't work i'm givin up

just copy and paste this all together with no spaces

and it might be identical to the one Linda found in the end

vance

[vance hawkins]

thanks Dan --

now I am more interested in this Fort, and those "Indian" Scouts. I'll check out that website here in a minute.

A cousin (daughter of a cousin) of mine found the website, not me, & I'm proud of her.

vance

[vance hawkins]

Wado Dan for that reference. I went to the site and followed it to a church link --

http://searches.rootsweb.com/usgenweb/archives/va/scott/church/stonycrk.txt

it said right at the very beginning --

A CHURCH BOOK FOR STONY CREEK CHURCH

NEVEL WAYLAND, CLERK FOR THE CHURCH

Dan, I am a direct descendant of Nevil Wayland! I had thought it was a "White" name so I never brought it up here. That Melungian site gave this as a Melungian Church, I think.

Nevil went to Lawrence County, Arkansas in 1815 a generation or so before the Richey's got there. We have proof of it. Joseph E. Richey (1819-1852, son of John Richey 1797-1861) married Sarah Ann Wayland in 1848 and their son, Jeffrey H. Richey married Josephine Brown (Cherokee) in 1872.

Apparently I had a LOOOT of ancestors in this area of Fort Blackmore!, and I never knew it until recently. Now I really want to research Richey (various spellings) who settled in this part of Virgiinia. Maybe we can find John's parents after all. All we have to go on was census records that say John Richey was born in 1797 in "Virginia". Maybe records in Scott County are where we need to be lookin'. Thank you.

vance

[Linda]

Did you look at that link I found? I'm sure it's the same. The one you're using looks like a dynamic link that will change everytime you visit.

http://www.scott.k12.va.us/history/priorto.html

[Dan Akin]

Vance;
By 1783 my gggggrandfather Zachariah Fugate lived about 20 miles east of Fort Blackmore and about 15 miles from Ramptown at the base of Clinch mountain on Moccasin Creek. This is just west of present day Hansonville in Russell County Va. I don't know if it is my part, but a part of our family became "Indian" as pointed out in the Fugate Family Newsletter. They claim it as Cherokee.
My real point is about the James Ritchie family of 1790 in Buncombe County North Carolina. On family tree maker Major James R. Rithchie Jr. writes "An example of an official human error was with my greatgrandmother's death certificate which said she was white. But I know she was 100% Native American from the SAPONI tribe. Because she told me she was Indian. I know from Kentucky census reports her parents, my gggrandparents were Indian."
In his geneology record he has Alexander Crockett Ritchie, born 1778 in Buncombe County N.C., the son of James Ritchie and Mary "Polly" Keith. Alexander Crockett Ritchie had a son James Ritchie, born 1806, who married Hannah FUGATE the daughter of Martin and Mary Ritchie Fugate.
That Crockett middle name is quite interesting, for you see, Davey Crockett's mom was a Hawkins.
Dan.
I don't know how any of this might tie into either of our families but I think it is worth checking out.
http://familytreemaker.geneology.com/users/r/i/t/Major-james-R-Ritchie-jr-us-army-/ODT1-0001.html

[vance hawkins]

yes linda, the 2 links appear to be identical, or at least very close to it.

Dan, I didn't know you were a "Richey", too! Maybe we are 10th or 15th cousins!

I couldn't open that article mentioning a Richey was a "Saponi" Indian. I'll keep trying, tho, using different keywords that you mention. A big WADO to ya, Dan.

If I can link mine to those, that would link "Saponi" and "Blackfoot" together, as my ancestors were living near where that "Blackfoot" Church was in Indiana as well, a generation later. Maybe this is what I am looking for. Can't say for sure, but maybe . . . :)

vance

[vance hawkins]

About the "Crocket" name. Dad always said we had some French blood, but always said he didn't know where it came from. I heard "Crockett" was an Anglicized version of a French Heugonot (sp?) name. Also I did some more researching and found French Heugonot's (sp?) settled in many places in Colonial days, so maybe that's where we get our French. I found a Parque later anglicized to Park who married a Richey and Park is the middle name of the brother of an ancestor. Those people often used the middle name as the maiden name of ancestors, so maybe that is our "French Connection", too. Right now I just don't know, tho.

Oh, also I did a search for the author of that article, Danny Dixon, and he said (direct quote) --

"The Clinch Scouts or Indian Spies were, as far as I have information, white-men who volunteered for the extremely dangerous mission of hiding out near river crossings, gaps, and popular trails used by Indian raiding parties in hopes of finding sign or observing Indian activity before raids could be carried out. They would then, slip away to warn outlying settlers to flee to forts for protection. Often they worked alone or in small groups. They dared not have fires for warmth and had to endure some pretty lonely and uncomfortable times in the wilderness."

-- so it isn't ceertain. I am gonna show him the "Goins" article about mixed-bloods living in the area and see try to dig more information out of him. I'd like to show him that other reference where the officer said his Richey ancestor was Saponi, and when I find it I will. I also questioned why a 12 year old boy would be chosen. We'll see . . . he might be right, I don't know.

vance

[vance hawkins]

Dan, I finally got that website open. He said they were called "Indian" on a Kentucky census record. I want to find that census record, now . . . I am thinking Alexander Crockett Richey might be an Uncle to my John Richey (1797-1861) and am gonna check this hypothesis out.

vance

[vance hawkins]

Dan, I opened up that James Ritchey page and was thinnkin about it. He says his great-grandma was full blood Saponi.

REALITY CHECK

1. Since it was a "great-grandMA", her maiden name was not Richey then, as the surname descends from the Father. And this man receieved his Ritchey surname from male descended from male et cetera.

2. My greatgrandma (Josephine Brown Richey) was born in the 1850s, in Arkansas, a descendant of marriage between a Brown and a Guess and was Cherokee. We "suspect Saponi from her husband, Jeffrey H. Richey. If his greatgrandma was born in the 1850s too, it is a separate line and I would not be directly related to that "Saponi" great-grandma of his, even tho she might have married someone distantly related to me.

So at first glance this appears a "connection", it might be instead a "coincidence".

Also I said my Guesses and Richeys might have lived side by side. Well I relooked at that map, and altho the Clinch River is near the Holston River in E. Tn, the Clinch River goes op up to SW. Va. and is not as close to the area where my Cherokee ancestors were in E. Tn as I originally thought.

vance

[vance hawkins]

http://www.geocities.com/ourmelungeons/jarvis.html

here are excerpts from the webpage mentioned above.

"Lewis M. Jarvis

Mr. Jarvis was born in 1829 and lived with the "Melungeons" in Hancock County. In the census records you will find him living just doors away from the Gibsons, Collins and other families called Melungeon. He was a schoolteacher in 1850 and knew Vardy Collins and wife Peggy Gibson.


1903 Interview
Hancock County Times
. . .
These people, not any of them were here at the time the first white hunting party came from Virginia and North Carolina in the year 1761-- the noted Daniel Boone was at the head of one of these hunting parties . . .

About the time the first white settlement west of the Blue Ridge was made at Watauga River in Carter County, Tennessee, another white party was then working the lead mines in part of Virginia west of the Blue Ridge. In the year 1762 these hunters turned, coming through Elk Garden, now Russell County, Virginia. They then headed down a valley north of Clinch River and named it Hunter’s Valley and buy this name it goes today. These hunters pitched their tent near Hunter’s gap in Powell’s mountain, nineteen mile from Rogersville, Tennessee on the Jonesville, Virginia road. . . .

. . . “Vardy Collins, Shepherd Gibson, Benjamin Collins, Solomon Collins, Paul Bunch and the Goodmans, chiefs and the rest of them settled here about the year 1804, possibly about the year 1795, but al these men above named, who are called Melungeons, obtained land grants and muniments of title to the land they settled on and they were the friendly Indians who came with the whites as they moved west. They came from the Cumberland County and New River, Va., stopping at various points west of the Blue Ridge. Some of them stopped on Stony Creek, Scott County, and Virginia, where Stoney Creek runs into Clinch River. . .

The white emigrants with the friendly Indians erected a fort on the bank of the river and called it Fort Blackmore and here yet many of these friendly “Indians” live in the mountains of Stony creek, but they have married among the whites until the race has almost become extinct. A few of the half bloods may be found-none darker- but they still retain the name of Collins and Gibson, &c. From here they came to Newman’s Ridge and Blackwater and many of them are here yet; but the amalgamations of the whites and Indians has about washed the red tawny from their appearance, the white faces predominating, so now you scarcely find one of the original Indians; a few half-bloods and quarter-bloods-balance white or past the third generation. The old pure blood were finer featured, straight and erect in form, more so than the whites and when mixed with whites made beautiful women and the men very fair looking men. These Indians came to Newman’s Ridge and Blackwater. Some of them went into the War of 1812-1914 whose names are here given; James Collins, John Bolin and Mike Bolin and some others not remembered; those were quite full blooded.

These were like the white people; there were good and bad among them, but the great majority were upright, good citizens and accumulated good property and many of them are among our best property owners and as good as Hancock County, Tennessee affords. Their word is their bond and most of them that ever came to Hancock county, Tennessee, then Hawkins County and Claiborne, are well remembered by some of the present generation here and now and they have left records to show these facts.

They all came here simultaneously with the whites from the State of Virginia, between the years 1795 and 1812 and about this there is no mistake, except in the dates these Indians came here from Stoney Creek."

[vance hawkins]

About the above post --

I can find my Waylands in this area and I "think" I have found my Richey's here. By Woods were further down stream closer to where the Clinch River joins the Tennessee.

Waylands were prominent in the "Primitive Baptist" Church on Stoney Creek and he mentions this creek. He also mentions the "New River". Haven't I heard someone talk about this river? Were the Saponi in this area?

He mentions early day Collins who were "friendly Indians". Also the names Green and Gibson were mentioned.

vance

[vance hawkins]

http://www.geocities.com/ourmelungeons/articles.html

there are a lot of articles here practically stating Melungeons are Indians.

vance

[Linda]

That is an awesome account. I wonder what the academics have to say about that. Oh shoot, I need to stop worrying about what they have to say about things. I believe this old guy. He was born in 1829, and he remembered what he saw, and what he knew. Why would he be lying? How could he be mistaken?

[vance hawkins]

I agree. He said he was not a Melungeon himself, but that he lived around them all his life. There is no motive for him to lie.

If the who question mark about people being darker complected or swarthy complexted is the whole evidence they have collected saying Melungeons are Jews or Turks or whatever -- whell that is rediculion. I comwe from a long line of mixed bloods who to the best of my knowledge never were called Melungeons. That's how we have always looked, some darker and some lighter for several hundred years now! :)

Also I am curious about "New River". That article said these "friendly Indians" came from New River. Can anybody tell me anything about "New River"? Since I have traced my Waylands here and have also found Richey's here, I thought my Richey's might have comoe from this New River -- at least it is worth investigating. If they didn't well, I just another blind alley and I've chased down a few, one more won't do any harm. But ever since I have been looking into the "Saponi" alleyway -- so far it hasn't turned "blind" on me -- and I really thought that it would have by now. :)

vance

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Linda and Vance:

I have read Jack Goins book and most of the articles on the Melungeons. I have several of these articles on the front page of my site. I believe the beginning of the Melungeons started in the area of the Flatt River. Vardy Collins was the son of Samuel Collins who was the son of Old Thomas Collins. Many believe Old Thomas was one of the Saponi's named in the famed Orange Co. Court Case in 1742. Old Thomas "Old Tom" was found living along the Pumumkey River of Louisa Co. Va. and sold land in 1747 moving to the Flatt River, across the border into NC.

According to Jack Goins, who is also a RIDDLE descendant, old Moses Riddle is documented in Pennsylvania Co.Va as being Indian. He believes there is also a link between the two families by marriage. ( Old Thomas sister married Moses Riddle or one of Old Thomas daughters married Moses Riddle....not sure but it would be wonderful if we could find out) Also living along the Flatt was the Gipson's and Bunches. More families associated with the Melungeons.......first living as friendly Indians in Virginia.

Brenda

[vance hawkins]

Brinda & Linda --

I gues I need a map. I don't know where New River is. I don't know trhe Flatt River or any of these places geographically . . . These places I guess are in East Tennessee, Western North Carolina and and Western Virginia, but maybe that eventually became West Virginia?

I need help with my geography! Once I reread everything with a map in front of me, this should make more sense. Also I need to knnow the routs of migration of the Saponi from Ohio to "Piedmont" -- see I don't know where "Peidmont" (sp?) is either. Right now these are just words to me. I am finally ready to take the next step and say I think we probably are descended from these people. It is a big step to go from saying I am researching it to I think this is where we came from.

Only now am I ready to try looking into the 18th century. I think I have more on where the Waylands were before Stoney Creey area near this Clinch River. I found it on a map, now I gotta look for the rest of these places.

Before I couldn't find any place where my ancestors were where these other surnames were -- I couldn't connect my ancestors up with living the same places yall's ancestors did in the Virginia area. So I didn't read yall's past posts as closely as I should have I guess. I was thinking they could habve lived any where. But finding this Fort Blackmore reference with ichey's thre and Waylands too with the woods family downstrream from them on the same river maybe 100 miles made me think harder about it.

I am just discoverig what part of Virginia my ancestors came from before they went to Indiana and Arkansas. I am a few years behind yall in my genealogy research for these ancestors, so please be patient with me. :)

vance

[vance hawkins]

Is there any way to edit my spelling? When you changed formats I lost the ability to do that. It's a wonder anyone can follow anything I write . . .

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

NEW RIVER

A rugged, white water river, flowing northward through deep canyons, the New River is among the oldest rivers on the continent.

Located in southern West Virginia, It flowes through Virginia and into North Carolina.

FLATT RIVER

http://home.attbi.com/~p.a.miller/genealogy/narr/danieljames.htm

About 1/4 way down this site is a map. It points out where the Flatt River Baptist Church was and also the North Fork of Flatt River.

Hope this helps.
Brenda

[Linda]

If you look under any post, there's a little button named "edit." Guess what that's for? Hehehe.

[CoheeLady]

Vance,
I have no problem following what you type, as your words always come straight from the heart. :)
CoheeLady

[White Hawk]

I checked out the time line mentioned.

"1773
- Fort Blackmore is built by Capt. John Blackmore
- Daniel Boone & Capt. William Russell meet in the Clinch Valley to plan a
settlement in Kentucky.
- (9/25/73) Boone, his family, and 5 other families depart for Ky.
- Jonathan Wood & James Davidson (his brother in law) move to the site
of the 1st settlement in Scott Co. (Big Moccasin Valley)
- Charles Kilgore moves to Scott Co. and joins Patrick Porter at Falls Creek.
- Col. Richard Henderson retires as N.Carolina Judge and steps up his plans
to acquire and speculate on a large tract of Kentucky land
- James Boone & Henry Russell (and party) are ambushed and killed by Indians
atop Powell Mtn. near the Lee Co. line.
- Boone and family return to Moore’s Ft.(Castlewood) to spend the winter.
- Fall - Shawnee grow increasingly more hostile, a general out-break seems eminent."

My ancestor Isaac Crabtree and his brother were with Boone's son and others when they were ambushed. All were killed except Isaac and the two slaves that were with them. The indians wanted to capture the slaves to sell them. Later while returning with the one captured slave, two indians got into a fight over who was going to receive the money on the sale of the slave. The indian raiding party leader decided to end the disagreement by killing the slave.

Isaac and the other slave were the only survivors. Isaac was wounded. When healed, he vowed vengence.

Ironic, since my Crabtree line is supposed to have indian blood in it. I have not been able to find it yet.

[tarcarion]

White Hawk,
I have Patrick Porter in my line. My gr.gr.gr. grandmother, Catherine Porter Carter was the granddaughter of Patrick Porter. Also she was the granddaughter of Joseph Carter, one of the three Carter brothers that built Carter Fort in the Rys Cove, Scott Co. VA.

Jim

[tarcarion]

Vance and All,
You've probably already seen this page but I'll repost it anyway for any who have not. It's the Stony Creek Baptist Church Minutes (Fort Blackmore Scott Co VA) from 1801-1814. Many of the names that we're all researching; Gibsons, Collins, Nevel Wayland (Clerk for the Church), Wilson, and my Joseph Carter are all mentioned. Also, Sexton and my gr.gr.gr.gr. grandfather, Presley Carter.
Bill Childs,
Didn't I hear you mention the name Flannery recently? They're refered to here too. Here's the link: http://searches.rootsweb.com/usgenweb/archives/va/scott/church/stonycrk.txt

Jim

[White Hawk]

They most likely knew each other well. Were the Carters and Porter Long Hunters as well? Do you know anything about the Witten Fort?

[sammarroq]

[QUOTE=Brenda Collins Dillon]NEW RIVER

A rugged, white water river, flowing northward through deep canyons, the New River is among the oldest rivers on the continent.

Located in southern West Virginia, It flowes through Virginia and into North Carolina.

FLATT RIVER

http://home.attbi.com/~p.a.miller/genealogy/narr/danieljames.htm

About 1/4 way down this site is a map. It points out where the Flatt River Baptist Church was and also the North Fork of Flatt River.

Hope this helps.
Brenda[/QUOTe


My aunts, cousins, etc, still live in the New River area, though moved north to Nicholas County, WV. Breathtaking country...

[spilleddi]

I just noticed this thread, at the beginning you folks mentioned an Alexander Ritchie born around 1763 who was an Indian spy with the clinch scouts.

I am descent from an Alexander Ritchey who was born in 1711 in Botetourt county Virginia. He had a son named William, who died in 1775, and William had a son named William born in 1775. This family eventually ended up in SW Virginia around Bristol area and Wise county, before ending up in Johnson City, TN. These folks were said to be mixed race, and the old pictures of my Richie ancestor and relatives suggest that was true.

I haven’t gotten around to doing any research on my Richey/Ritchie family yet, but I got this info from my grandma who got it from her grandma and aunts. I also remember my great great aunt mentioning the name Clinch associated with these folks, I think they lived somewhere with that name. So perhaps my Ritcheys are related to this clinch scout. But then my aunt also claimed that her great grandpa James Ritchey was governor of Virginia, and I know that wasn’t true!

[tarcarion]

White Hawk,
No doubt everyone in extreme Southwest VA knew each other at that time. And they probably spent time together in the forts too during Indian threats. The Carters built Carter Fort in the Rye Cove of Scott Co. VA. It's near Clinchport today. Patrick Porter was also a prominent figure although not always "upstanding" from the reports I've read. He and several others were investigated for supposedly "ambushing" a rough character that the law was looking for anyway. The man was found murdered on a road. I think the man had been accused of stealing from Porter and others. Also Patrick Porter was indicted from "drinking and swearing on the Lord's day" but the charges were dismissed, I assume because Porter had a lot of political pull at that time. Patrick Porter is my 6th gr. grandfather. Now I know where I get my "attitude" from!
The Carter brothers, Thomas, Norris, and my 4th gr. grandfather, Joseph, were born in Farquier, VA. The three brothers are thought to have moved to Scott Co. VA. sometime around the early 1780's. So they were around for all the Bob Benge raids (who is also related through my Mark line) during the late 1780's and early 1790's period. If I'm not mistaken, this is the same time period that the Gibson and Collins families begin showing up on Newman's Ridge. To my knowledge, the Carters nor the Porters were Long Hunters. But both families served the local militia which goes without saying. I think that when the Indians attacked, everyone was the militia, including women and children.

Jim

[rockhound]

http://64.4.16.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=be0113ab7111d3d2c6cf8bc55befec5e&lat=1053626704&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fscott%2ek12%2eva%2eus%2fh istory%2fpriorto%2ehtml

Now the Brown/Guess/Looney ancestors went to Winston/Walker/Lawrence Counties (eventually) in Alabama and we just came back from a visit there. Every one there KNOWS the first settlers there were mixed bloods and the state recognized "Echota Cherokees" are descended from them!



There were(are?) a large group of my Riddles who moved to Walker County, Alabama. They can be traced back to Johnson "Rake" Riddle, grandson of William Riddle and great-grandson of Moses Riddle (I have a lot of this line written out in detail from the 1884 Riddle-Ridlon book).

From what I have found Johnson "Rake" Riddle was in Bledsoe County, TN with the rest of the Riddles in the 1820s. He moved to Pulaski County, MO with some of his brothers and cousins (my family) around 1830, before heading back east and settling in Alabama.

[Aubrey G. Cole]

This riddle info is very interesting as my wife's g-fa was a Riddle who lived in Coffee Co Tn. where I met her
Aubrey

[rockhound]

This riddle info is very interesting as my wife's g-fa was a Riddle who lived in Coffee Co Tn. where I met her
Aubrey

Well, Coffee County is not too far west of Bledsoe County.

Do you have any information on that line? I might be able to help if you give me a few names...

[Aubrey G. Cole]

Rockhound;
My wife's g-father was John Marion Riddle he married Ester Mae Hice, His father was John Henry Riddle who married Mamie Waggoner, his father was John Will Riddle who mMarried Betty ???
Her g-mother Ester Mae Hice's father was Rubin or Rubine Hice who married Callie Lawson, Rubin's fa was Tom Hice wife u/k, Callie Lawson's father was Tom Lawson who married Sallie ???
My wife Lila Darlene Farris's mother was Gladys Riddle who married James Willard Farris.
This is all the info we are able to obtain on her family other than story that the riddles had left va or ky at the begining of the Civil War.
Aubrey G Cole

[rockhound]

What years did John Will Riddle live?

[Aubrey G. Cole]

Rockhound;
I called my mo-in-law and this is the info I recieved
John Marion Riddle b June 6 1900 in Franklin Co Tn died March 19 1980 Tullahoma Tn
John Henry Riddle b. may 30 1878 ??Tenn. died Sept 03, 1953 Franklin Co Tn
John Will Riddle was unable to obtain any dates. Also John Henry may have been Henry John Riddle they are not sure.

Aubrey Cole

[rockhound]

Aubrey,

I can't find a match with the information I have on my particular line.

There may still be a connection with some of these descendants of William "Tory" Riddle. This list is taken from:
http://www.jimcal.com/v04is01.htm (note, I am not listed under John and Sary (Johnson) Riddle, which is where I fit in.

DESCENDANTS

EIGHT KNOWN CHILDREN OF WILLIAM AND HAPPY RIDDLE:

1) (Moses?) Riddle - assumed to be the oldest son, and was hanged with his father at Wilkesboro, Wilkes Co., NC in late May or early June, 1781.

2) James Riddle - went to Cumberland County, KY. Some say he died in Cumberland Co., KY and others say he died in Missouri or Illinois. Children: James, George and others.

Descendants:

3) John Riddle - m. Sary Johnson, dau. of Moses Johnson. Went to Bledsoe County, TN and then to Pulaski Co., MO. Died in 1833. Children: At least six children.

Descendants:

4) Joseph Riddle - m. Rhoda Monk, dau. of Shadrack Monk and Polly Roberts. Went to Cumberland County, KY and died in 1856. A number of children.

Descendants:
Rebecca A. Wennermark
3263 South 500 West
New Palestine, IN 46163
IndyDOTS@aol.com

Jennifer L. Mullen (sister of Rebecca)
6779 West Lora Drive
Boggstown, IN 46110

Lourene England Vaden
45 Gloster Road
Lawrenceville, GA 30244

Kerry Fleming
237 Braeshire
Manchester, MO 63021
GYNRN@aol.com

Tim Riddle
1120 Carol Lane
Cookeville, TN 38501
trid@midtenn.net

William R. Riddle
429 Arballo Drive
San Francisco, CA 94132
WriddleNud@aol.com

Mildred Church
201 South 6th Street
Deepwater, MO 64740

Fairy Neathery
511 Casey Branch Road
Burkesville, KY 42717

Marilyn Wilson
PO Box 618
Chewelah, WA 99109
wilsonm@triax.com

Helen Blair
1336 North Eustis Drive
Cumberland, IN 46229
Hel2000@aol.com

Jean Schooler
6195 South State Road 267
Lebanon, IN 46052
jschooler@cinergy.com

5) Isaac Riddle - b. Hawkins Co., TN, moved to Pendleton Co., KY 1805, to Boone Co., KY 1814, to Texas in 1843/1845. d. 1861 in Titus County, Texas. Twelve children.

Descendants:
James I. Riddle III
4247 Goodfellow Dr.
Dallas, TX 75229
jriddle@onramp.net

Chauncey C. Riddle
1146 Birch Lane
Provo, Utah 84604
cbr13@netutah.net

G-Nell Winslow
1101 Jungle Road
Edisto Beach, SC 29438
Ewinslow1@aol.com

Robert L. Riddle
4200 N. Haltom Rd.
Fort Worth, Texas 76117-1202
rlr007@email.msh.com

6) Thomas Riddle - moved to Bledsoe Co., TN, m. Mary Igou and Delilah Burks, d. 1859, Bradley Co., TN. Had at least 10 children.

Descendants:
Sherry Hildreth
1309 Chipwood Drive
Knoxville, TN 37932
sherryh2@juno.com

7) Happy Riddle Jr. - married Henry Fisher 1799, Russell Co., VA. Had eleven children.

Descendants:
Jack Goins
270 Holston View Dr.
Rogersville, TN 37857
jgoins@usit.net

Glen England
Brooklyn, NY
GENGLANDBK@aol.com

Bruce England
1458 Thunderbird Avenue
Sunnyvale, California 94087

Eula McNutt - des. from Catherine Fisher, dau. of Happy Jr.
P.O. Box 1092
Gate City, VA 24251

Wanda Aldridge - des. from James Hurd & Nancy Fisher, dau. of Happy Jr.
P.O. Box 184
Dyer, Arkansas 72935

8) William Riddle - in 1830 Wm. Riddle was living in Whitley Co., TN, married to Ellen Choat, with several children. In 1850 he was living in Bradley Co., TN where he died.

Descendants:
Tonya Holmes Shook