Saponi Names

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

SAPONI NATION NAMES ( NAME-TRIBE-YEAR-PLACE) (chief *)

Amoroleck.............................Monacan..... .....1608.............Virginia
*Deabedanba........................Nusang......... ....1657.............Northampton,Co. Va
Monack................................Monakins.... ......1670.............Virginia
Indian John/Hasecoll/Hasecott..Ocannechi........1673.............Meckle nburg Co. Va.
*Rosseechy..........................Ocannechi..... ....1676.............Mecklenburg Co. Virginia
*Shurenough.........................Manakins...... ....1677.............Virginia
*Mastegonoe........................Saponi......... .....1677.............Virginia
*Tachapoake........................Saponi......... .....1677.............Virginia
Eno Will................................Eno/Shakori.......1710.............Virginia
*Whitmannetaughehee...........Catawba............1 716.............South Carolina
*Austugah/Sapona................Catawba Ruler.....1720.............South Carolina
Jessee Heathcock..................Saponi...............17 24............Brunswick Co. Virginia
*Capt.Tom...........................Saponi........ .......1728............Brunswick Co, Virginia
*Mahennip...........................Saponi........ .......1728.............Brunswick Co, Virginia
Tom Irvin.............................Saponi.......... .....1728.............Brunswick Co. Virginia
HarryIrvin............................Saponi...... .........1728............Brunswick Co. Virginia
Ned Bearskin.........................Saponi........... ....1728........... Brunswick Co. Virginia
John Hescott........................Saponi............. ..1728.............Brunswick Co, Virginia
Pryor..................................Saponi..... ...........1728.............Brunswick Co, Virginia
Joseph Heathcock.................Saponi ...............1728.............Brunswick Co Virginia
William Jeffreys.....................Saponi............... .1730's .........Indian School
Ozato.................................Catawba..... .........1738............South Carolina
Alex.Macharition...................Saponi......... ........1742............Orange Co. Virginia
John Bowling........................Saponi............. ....1742...........Orange Co. Virginia
Maniassa.............................Saponi....... ..........1742............Orange Co.Virginaia
Tom...................................Saponi...... ...........1742............Orange Co, Virginia
Isaac Harry..........................Saponi............. ....1742...........Orange Co. Va.Virginia
Blind Tom............................Saponi............. ....1742............Orange Co, Virginia
Foolish Jack.........................Saponi............... ..1742............Orange Co, Virginia
Charles Griffin......................Saponi............... ...1742............Orange Co, Va.
John Collins.........................Saponi............ ......1742............OrangeCo, Virginia
Little Jack...........................Saponi............. .....1742............OrangeCo,Va.
*AratswaHagler...................Catawba.......... ......1748...........North Carolina
Edward Heathcock.............Saponi...................174 9...........Northampton,NC
Thomas Heathcock..............Saponi....................1 749..........Northampton, NC
John Heathcock..................Saponi................. ...1749..........Northampton,NC
Heskake............................._____......... ...........1753..........Virginia
*Johnny............................Cheraw......... ..........1768..........SouthCarolin
Jin...................................Catawba..... .............1774..........BotteroutCo.Virginia
SimonJeffers/Jeffreys..........Saponi/Catawba........1783..........NorthCarolina
William Guy.......................Saponi/Catawba........1783..........NorthCarolina
Kizor Haitcock....................Ocannechi/Saponi.....1787...........MecklenburgCo.Virginia Onoyegeneon....................Tutelo............. ........1789...........New York
Ontehoghkau.....................Tutelo............ ........1789........... New York
Haykawyenin.....................Tutelo............ ........1789............NewYork
Mahionguti........................Tutelo.......... ..........1789............NewYork
Yenyahkeya......................Tutelo............ ........1789............NewYok
Kansoreakt.......................Tutelo........... .........1789.............NewYork
Washomene......................Tutelo............. .......1789.............NewYork
Konakauney......................Tutelo............ ........1789.............New York
Porarah............................Tutelo......... ...........1789.............New York
Nehqueksati......................Tutelo........... .........1789............ NewYork
Keest...............................Tutelo........ ............1789.............NewYork

[Linda]

Allen
Ammon
Anderson
Austen
Austin
Barnes
Bearskin
Bird
Bowman
Braveboy
Brook
Brown
Buck
Bullen
Bullian
Burnett
Byrd
Capons
Carter
Chavers
Chavis
Coaker
Coker
Cokerum
Collins
Corn
Cousins
Day
Dempsey
Dixon
Evans
Frye
George
Gibson
Gipson
Goen
Goings
Goins
Gowin
Griffin
Guy
Haith
Haithcock
Hammond
Harris
Hathcoat
Hathcock
Hays
Haycock
Haykock
Hayscock
Hayth
Heathcock
Heacock
Hecock
Hethcock
Hicks
Jeffreys
Jeffries
Jones
Kimball
Kimbie
Lane
Lawson
Leder
Liggin
McGhee
Martin
Mathews
Mayho
Mayo
McGhee
Mitchell
Morgan
Mullens
Mullins
Norton
Oaks
Paine
Parker
Payne
Pettiford
Pritchard
Pritchett
Pruet
Ragland
Ransom
Ransome
Revills
Rollins
Scott
Shomac
shomach
Sizemore
Stanley
Stevens
Stewart
Stuart
Sweat
Sweet
Taber
Taborn
Tabourne
Taburn
Taylor
Thore
Tootle
Tucker
Tuttero
Tutterow
Tuttle
Valentine
Walden
Walker
Walton
Washington
Watkins
Wetmore
White
Whitmore
Williams
Williamson
Winbourn
Winburn

[Forest]

I think it is important to keep in mind that the names on this list are, for the most part, common names, and the mere fact that one of them appears in a family tree does not, in and of itself, demonstrate Saponi, or even Indian ancestry. Not every individual found in a historical record with one of these surnames is necessarily Indian. Haithcock, for example, while considered to be Indian by the Occaneechi Tribe when found in connection with the ancestral community in old Brunswick county, Virginia, is never, to our knowledge, identified in a early contemporary record as Saponi, or Indian. ( with the exception of Ohio ex rel. James Jeffyres v. Cedarville Board of Education in 1880, and then only by extension) The same is true for many of the names on this list.

Not trying to be a wet blanket here, just saying that perhaps a disclaimer is in order, particularly for the benefit of those who are just beginning to look into their own family histories.

I am in the process of compiling a list of individual surnames counted on some official document as Indian prior to 1900 in Virginia and North Carolina. Hopefully it will be of some use to researchers when complete ( if such a work could ever be truely complete)

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Forest, I heartly agree. The same holds true with the Melungeon names I submitted.

The first set of Saponi names above were taken from Haithcock's books and where most are Indian names I felt they were verified.

Wanted to ask you....Can you lend any information to the Commissioner of Indian affairs in the 1700's by the name of John Collins? Do you know if he was white married to a NA woman,mixed blood himself, or if he had a Indian name and took the Collins name. I know he appears on early documents as John Collins, interperter. Could this be the beginning of the Saponi Collins line? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Forest]

Hi Brenda,
I'm sorry, I dont have any info close at hand on John Collins. If I run accross any, I'll pass it on to you.

[Linda]

Yes, I agree. It goes without saying, whenever we refer to any of these names, that they are associated with some Saponi families. It would be absurb to think that all the millions of Collins, or Dixons or Evans in this country are Saponi. I try to always phrase it that way, "names associated with" and that is what I am trying to communicate. If you've got a tradition of native ancestry in your family and you can trace it back to a known location of Saponi families, and lo and behold the family name is on this list, then you've got a good, meaningful lead. If on a personal basis that is enough to satisfy you on the origins of your family stories that is your personal business and your personal right. But it would be naive to think that you have "proven" your ancestry in a legal or academic sense.

[rosebudsaponi]

When you see or feel the validation, that, too me is all the proof I need. I, like you and all the board, are trying to trace the lineage but for me, it's more of a spiritual search than anything else. It's knowing that the bonds we form, even through modern technology, is from the ancestors, from Spirit, from our hearts. It's knowing what the true meaning of tribal is. Family. The fortune of belonging to each other. Just my thoughts. You know cause you know cause you know.

[Linda]

I know just what you mean.

[rodtree20744]

There is also a book by Paul Heinegg named Free African Americans of North Carolina, Virginia, and South Carolina, It has genealogies from the colonial period to about 1820 that contain a lot of the same surnames. Back then you could be Indian or African depending on who was looking or what was happening at the time. I found my Benjamin Richardson in there who was I believe to be Saponi.

PS Paul has a web page with a lot of the same information.

[Greywolf]

Seems like we all want or need documentation on Indian names. I found this and wanted to produce it for evidence. It’s not one of my people but hope it will help someone.

Abstracts of the Minutes of the
Court of Pleas and Quarter
Sessions Rowan County,
North Carolina 1753-1762
II:72 19 April 1755

(spelling is uncorrected)
Esquires present: Jas Carter, Jno Handby, Alexr Osburn & Thos Potts. … Whereas John Auston a Saponia Indian and Mary a Susquhanah Indian and Thos a Cattaaba applied for a pass to the Cataba Nation being now on their Journey to conclude a Genl Peace with ye Catabas in behalf of the Sd Nation and also presented 3 Belts of Wampum to Sd Court by which the sd Treaty is to be concluded.

Copyright Jo White Linn 1977

Mrs. Stahle Linn, Jr.
Box 1948
Salisbury, N.C. 28144

Stamped (Carnegie Public Library, Washington C. H., Ohio 43160)

[Linda]

Thanks! Now we know what the deal is with the Austin name.

[Tom]

Hello All, 4 what it's worth, those names that are spelled out to be of Indian origin the names such a Ozato etc would eventually give way either to a bastardization of the name or to names such as Ned Bear Skin that is they would be translated to English.
The best method of seeing who's who if you can't find the atrophied etomology then look to census records etc.
My Uncles name was Charles in the Lower Cherokee traditions Charles is Charlie, playing on the Cherokee word for lichen meaning to stay close to the family.
This type of progression needs to be considered here, there are many names that have under gone this transformation, a sacred name "white Woman" is "boogered" into Blanche!
Best to All. Tom

[techteach]

Hmmm,

Wonder if Ozato became Oswalt. Bill has been looking for an elusive ancestor of mine, Andrew Huston. A sister of one of the many Andrew Hustons who come from central PA married into the Oswalt line. The Oswalt genforum speaks of Blackfoot ancestry from northern Ohio.

Cindy

[Linda]

Interesting angle. I've been thinking a long time about that same process in conjunction with the theory that the town name of Sissipaha or Saxapahaw is a corruption of the old words for 'blackfoot.'

The 'haw' ending has always bothered me. Foot is 'isi' and black is 'asepa.' But what does the 'ha' at the end come from?

I think I've found the answer. The Tutelo words for 'blacken' is 'asepihiye'. So if the huge settlement in the Haw river valley was called 'Isi Asepihiye' and the English heard it, the first thing they'd do is slur all the double vowels. English speakers can't deal with that. They also can't deal with accenting the even numbered syllables the way native languages are generally spoken. So, they'd drop the initial 'i' sound. Given those assumptions,

isi asepihiye = sissipaha

I think this makes for an exceptionally 'clean' corruption. It also makes sense as a name when you consider that the Haw river valley is the largest fertile plain in the region. The people there were great, prosperous farmers. Native farmers used slash and burn agriculture. Hence the emphasis on blackened feet. That's where their prosperity came from, the crux of their economy. From the archeological evidence, they were a very dense population. Epidemics spread through them like wildfire. And once the economy switched to the fur trade in order to compete in the European-imposed arms race, agriculture lost its importance economically.

The name Blackfoot would then have evoked memories of a much kinder and gentler past. Something a people facing chaos and obvlivion would have treasured. And that's why so many of us were still being taught that name three hundred years later.

[Bill Childs]

I think that is a sound hypothesis, linguistically and culturally.
Your "mind meld" is tremendous.

[Linda]

PiLA huc.

[Tom]

Hey All, well with this evolution of names and cultural adaptions many times the native perspective is lost.
After years and generations of cultural assimalation we often forget how issues have been transformed, who was defining who and how new rules changed old perceptions.
All the best Tom

[Randy]

Hi Linda and Brenda

you mention Stewart and Chavis under this list of surnames - please see my new posting of March 26, 2004 under
Stewart OR Stuart - Share History Research
Do any of you have Stewart ancestors?
thanks Randy

[collins]

Page 33 Siouan Tribes of the East by James Mooney
On this page Mooney gives reference to the 4 orgin Mothers. These being:
Sepoy
Pash
Askarin
Maraskarin

It states that these 4 sisters went on to generate the four tribes that make up the South Eastern Siouans. Which four tribes do you think Mooney meant?

[vance hawkins]

Linda, if Isi means foot, well I recall reading there was a Piedmont Siouan tribe called "Issi" aka "Esaw".

So there is documentation of a Piedmont Siouan tribe with that half of the name already.

vance

[Felicia]

Vance - Do you remember where information came from, a book, journal, article, I am very interested in knowing.
Does anyone else know or could help?

[vance hawkins]

Felicity -- I haven't hard from you in a while! How are you? Good to hear from you. :)

Well I just had a lot of links and it all just dissapeared . . . ???

rats.

I'll just do it again . . .

http://www.cofc.edu/~waddelle/CofitachiquiRev2.html

The earliest mention of the Esaw is in a list of tribes which Matthews himself had made in 1671 for the Earl of Shaftesbury. He started his list of all known tribes with the “St. Helena ye Southernmost,” and he continued from south to north until he ended it with the “...Esaw, [and] Cotachicach....”[55] The Cofitachiqui lived nearest to the Esaw of all the tribes in the list.

-- and --

The “Issa” were encountered by Pardo in 1566 living at or near the present location of the Catawba Reservation, and judging by their name and location, they unquestionably were the “Esaw” of the Catawba Nation. The Catawba spoke a Siouan dialect, and “Esaw” is a Siouan word for river.[59A]

Other sites saying the Issa are the Catawba are here --

http://www.sciway.net/hist/indians/catawba.html

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/nations/catawba.htm

http://www.dickshovel.com/Catawba.html

---------------------

These sites however say Issa or Esaw comes from Iswa a Siouan word for River, and not "issi" for foot. But I wonder . . .

The Dick Shovel website mentions words with a "w" (Esaw, Iswa, Isaw) as being in old Spanish archives, but I don't believe there is a "w" in the Spanish alphabet, so that is curious. He also gives "Usi", "Usheree", and "Ushery"as names they were called by the English. That's very close to "Euchee" -- hmm . . . does he have Euchee/Yuchi and Issa mixed up?

A google search turns up many web sites.

This leaves a lot of question marks I am afraid and few answers.

vance

[lynellarainhawk]

Forest,

I see your point and do appreciate it a lot.:) As a large think tank or research pool it would be.....foolish at best to leave out any area where true information can be found. Sure, a surname on somebodies document may be just that, a surname. However, it is also a spark and a spark in the dark is all one soul needs sometimes to point them in the right direction. I feel we all need to check and recheck all sparks. We may build a really nice fire, we may not, but atleast we've left nothing unchecked. Wouldn't you agree? Lynella.

[collins]

I was wondering about the origins of some names that we see have been used by ancestors. Names like Asenath Sina, Mahala, and Theophilos.

[lynellarainhawk]

Collins,

I know what you mean about the origin of some of these first names. I too have a Mahala and a Jehu Staton and there were other Statons with very interesting names. Kerry posted it last year, I think probably on the Geneology forum. I think it was a post strictly about the Staton line, but some of those names are just.....well, darned interesting! I should try to dig it up again, but for some reason I have trouble finding anything with this search thingy. I'm not doing it right or something!;)

[saj]

Hey Lynella!
Is this it?
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1301&highlight=jehu
Sue J

[lynellarainhawk]

Sue,

Yes! That's it! Thank you very much! See there are some strange names in there, Dancingmaster, Niamiah or something, Biavins?????? Interesting. I'll print this so I have the link. Thank you so much! Love & Light, Lynella.

[sammarroq]

SAPONI NATION NAMES ( NAME-TRIBE-YEAR-PLACE) (chief *)

Amoroleck.............................Monacan..... .....1608.............Virginia
*Deabedanba........................Nusang......... ....1657.............Northampton,Co. Va
Monack................................Monakins.... ......1670.............Virginia
Indian John/Hasecoll/Hasecott..Ocannechi........1673.............Meckle nburg Co. Va.
*Rosseechy..........................Ocannechi..... ....1676.............Mecklenburg Co. Virginia
*Shurenough.........................Manakins...... ....1677.............Virginia
*Mastegonoe........................Saponi......... .....1677.............Virginia
*Tachapoake........................Saponi......... .....1677.............Virginia
Eno Will................................Eno/Shakori.......1710.............Virginia
*Whitmannetaughehee...........Catawba............1 716.............South Carolina
*Austugah/Sapona................Catawba Ruler.....1720.............South Carolina
Jessee Heathcock..................Saponi...............17 24............Brunswick Co. Virginia
*Capt.Tom...........................Saponi........ .......1728............Brunswick Co, Virginia
*Mahennip...........................Saponi........ .......1728.............Brunswick Co, Virginia
Tom Irvin.............................Saponi.......... .....1728.............Brunswick Co. Virginia
HarryIrvin............................Saponi...... .........1728............Brunswick Co. Virginia
Ned Bearskin.........................Saponi........... ....1728........... Brunswick Co. Virginia
John Hescott........................Saponi............. ..1728.............Brunswick Co, Virginia
Pryor..................................Saponi..... ...........1728.............Brunswick Co, Virginia
Joseph Heathcock.................Saponi ...............1728.............Brunswick Co Virginia
William Jeffreys.....................Saponi............... .1730's .........Indian School
Ozato.................................Catawba..... .........1738............South Carolina
Alex.Macharition...................Saponi......... ........1742............Orange Co. Virginia
John Bowling........................Saponi............. ....1742...........Orange Co. Virginia
Maniassa.............................Saponi....... ..........1742............Orange Co.Virginaia
Tom...................................Saponi...... ...........1742............Orange Co, Virginia
Isaac Harry..........................Saponi............. ....1742...........Orange Co. Va.Virginia
Blind Tom............................Saponi............. ....1742............Orange Co, Virginia
Foolish Jack.........................Saponi............... ..1742............Orange Co, Virginia
Charles Griffin......................Saponi............... ...1742............Orange Co, Va.
John Collins.........................Saponi............ ......1742............OrangeCo, Virginia
Little Jack...........................Saponi............. .....1742............OrangeCo,Va.
*AratswaHagler...................Catawba.......... ......1748...........North Carolina
Edward Heathcock.............Saponi...................174 9...........Northampton,NC
Thomas Heathcock..............Saponi....................1 749..........Northampton, NC
John Heathcock..................Saponi................. ...1749..........Northampton,NC
Heskake............................._____......... ...........1753..........Virginia
*Johnny............................Cheraw......... ..........1768..........SouthCarolin
Jin...................................Catawba..... .............1774..........BotteroutCo.Virginia
SimonJeffers/Jeffreys..........Saponi/Catawba........1783..........NorthCarolina
William Guy.......................Saponi/Catawba........1783..........NorthCarolina
Kizor Haitcock....................Ocannechi/Saponi.....1787...........MecklenburgCo.Virginia Onoyegeneon....................Tutelo............. ........1789...........New York
Ontehoghkau.....................Tutelo............ ........1789........... New York
Haykawyenin.....................Tutelo............ ........1789............NewYork
Mahionguti........................Tutelo.......... ..........1789............NewYork
Yenyahkeya......................Tutelo............ ........1789............NewYok
Kansoreakt.......................Tutelo........... .........1789.............NewYork
Washomene......................Tutelo............. .......1789.............NewYork
Konakauney......................Tutelo............ ........1789.............New York
Porarah............................Tutelo......... ...........1789.............New York
Nehqueksati......................Tutelo........... .........1789............ NewYork
Keest...............................Tutelo........ ............1789.............NewYork

Does anyone know what the reference/s is/are for this information? Curious...would like to find out more.

Shirley

[Forest]

A fair number of these names are based on supposition, not actual historical references. For example, while Will(iam) Jeffries attended the Brafferton School for Indians from 1736-1742, he is NOT identified as Saponi. He PROBABLY was, but that is based on putting together other bits and pieces of info. In point of actual fact, many of the students there were, from their surnames, Algonquin, not Siouan. Simon Jeffries and William Guy are NOT identified in any 1783 document from North Carolina as Catawba or Saponi, and none of the Haithcocks mentioned in the list are identified as Indian, let alone Saponi in either NC or Virginia. If anyone tells you I'm wrong on this, ask them for their original source and take a look at it for yourself.

The Lawrence family is one of the very few identified in Brunswick/Greensville Co. records pre-1850 as Indian, and they are conspicuous by this fact. Were they Saponi, again, probably so, but the records simply state "Indian"

Were these folks Indian? Probably so. Do specific historical sources exist proving it? No, probably not. This list, without sources, is at best less than useful, and at worst, misleading to folks trying to do research on the Siouan tribes.

In fairness to Brenda, she was simply trying to be helpful, and posted this list that she came accross from elsewhere.

[sammarroq]

A fair number of these names are based on supposition, not actual historical references. For example, while Will(iam) Jeffries attended the Brafferton School for Indians from 1736-1742, he is NOT identified as Saponi. He PROBABLY was, but that is based on putting together other bits and pieces of info. In point of actual fact, many of the students there were, from their surnames, Algonquin, not Siouan. Simon Jeffries and William Guy are NOT identified in any 1783 document from North Carolina as Catawba or Saponi, and none of the Haithcocks mentioned in the list are identified as Indian, let alone Saponi in either NC or Virginia. If anyone tells you I'm wrong on this, ask them for their original source and take a look at it for yourself.

The Lawrence family is one of the very few identified in Brunswick/Greensville Co. records pre-1850 as Indian, and they are conspicuous by this fact. Were they Saponi, again, probably so, but the records simply state "Indian"

Were these folks Indian? Probably so. Do specific historical sources exist proving it? No, probably not. This list, without sources, is at best less than useful, and at worst, misleading to folks trying to do research on the Siouan tribes.

In fairness to Brenda, she was simply trying to be helpful, and posted this list that she came accross from elsewhere.


Thanks Forest for the reply...good to know whether the information is worth digging into further or not...

Shirley

[sammarroq]

I think it is important to keep in mind that the names on this list are, for the most part, common names, and the mere fact that one of them appears in a family tree does not, in and of itself, demonstrate Saponi, or even Indian ancestry. Not every individual found in a historical record with one of these surnames is necessarily Indian. Haithcock, for example, while considered to be Indian by the Occaneechi Tribe when found in connection with the ancestral community in old Brunswick county, Virginia, is never, to our knowledge, identified in a early contemporary record as Saponi, or Indian. ( with the exception of Ohio ex rel. James Jeffyres v. Cedarville Board of Education in 1880, and then only by extension) The same is true for many of the names on this list.

Not trying to be a wet blanket here, just saying that perhaps a disclaimer is in order, particularly for the benefit of those who are just beginning to look into their own family histories.

I am in the process of compiling a list of individual surnames counted on some official document as Indian prior to 1900 in Virginia and North Carolina. Hopefully it will be of some use to researchers when complete ( if such a work could ever be truely complete)

Hi Forest,

I was wondering if you would post or would be willing to email the names you have compiled. I am trying to put the pieces of my family together and rule in or out my Gibson's as Saponi. Thanks much.

Shirley

[BlondeyeLaurie]

Hey Shirley....I remember having seen a number of references to "Foolish Jack" and "Blind Tom" that you linked froma prior post of Brenda's...and when I looked in my notes I did have a few references/links...it appears that many of those men listed as Saponi in Brenda's list can be located at the following URL: http://www.theinternetfoundation.org/family/WarOf1812.htm

Some of the notes and sources include the following:
"Ancestors of Robert Leon Atkins - General Notes: Calloway Collins told the reporter Will Allen Dromgoole in the 1890 interview on Newman Ridge. "The Collins and Gibsons were living as Indians in Virginia before they migrated to North Carolina." + The Indian tribe was not named and has not been factually proven, but the important part, moving from Virginia to North Carolina has been proven by deeds from all these areas, beginning on the Pamunkey River in Louisa County, Virginia. Orange County, Virginia Order Book 3 record 1741-43 “Alexander Machartoon, John Bowling, Manincassa, Capt Tom, Isaac, Harry, blind tom, Foolish Jack, Charles Griffin, John Collins, Little Jack, Indians being bought before the court for stealing Hogs. , Ordered that their Guns be taken away from them till they are ready to depart of this county, they having declared their intentions to depart this colony within a week.”. On pages 309-312 of Court Record book the above named men individually put up security.4 + This party of Saponia ( Monasukapanough) Indians left that county and some of these may have been the same group that formed the settlement near Hillsborough, North Carolina in 1750. It appears from Granville and Orange County tax records that a John Collins arrived in the area about this time. John Collins lived on the Flat River for about 17 years then moved to the New River circa 1767. Land and court records reveal they settled land on Peach Bottom Creek. This area became Grayson County, Virginia in 1793. Tax records from Grayson County, Virginia reveals that Lewis and James Collins were likely sons of John Collins. “James Collins, John Bolin, and Mike Bolin Indians from Blackwater, Newman Ridge, were named by Sneedville attorney Lewis M. Jarvis in 1903, as quite full blooded who fought in the War of 1812-1814". 5 Another Indian family Moses and Mary , Ridley, Riddle are on these same Granville and Orange County, North Carolina tax lists, identified as mulattoes on the 1755 tax list in Orange County, North Carolina. Moses was closely associated with Charles Gibson, Thomas Gibson Sr & Jr, Thomas Collins and Joseph Collins. Several Collins, Bolling and others with related Melungeon names still live in this area today which is Person County, North Carolina."
(Source: located June 2006 from URL above).

Also, many of these names were mentioned in the Melungeon Heritage Association's 2nd union, URL to read some of the shared data can be located at URL: http://www.melungeon.org/index.cgi?&CONTEXT=cat&cat=10144

An exerpt: "A. Surnames gleaned from published works of various researchers – a lengthy list
B. Northern Neck surnames later found in Orange County, Virginia
1. McCarty/McCartian, Bolin/Bowline, Indian Harry, Griffin, Collins
2. Reference Orange County Virginia court 27 January 1742/3 "Alexander Machartoon*, John Bowling,, Manincassa, Capt. Tom, Isaac, Harry, Blind Tom, Foolish Jack, Charles Griffin, John Collins, Little Jack, Indians being brought before the Court …….for terrifying one Lawrence Strother & on suspicion of stealing hoggs…..” "
(Source: located June 2006, DO above URL)

Jack Goins also makes mention of these men on his webite at URL:
http://www.jgoins.com/emhistory.htm

He quotes the same initial source and it too states that these men were Saponi as such: "“Alexander Machartoon, John Bowling, Manincassa, Capt Tom, Isaac, Harry, blind tom, Foolish Jack, Charles Griffin, John Collins, Little Jack, Indians being bought before the court for stealing Hogs., Ordered that their Guns be taken away from them till they are ready to depart of this county, they having declared their intentions to depart this colony within a week.” (On pages 309-312 of Court Record book the above named men individually put up security. This party of Saponia ( Monasukapanough) Indians left that county (Orange County, Va., Order Book 3, 1741-43)"
(Source: located June 2006 from J. Goins website , URL above).

Simon Jeffries et al are also mentioned at a site I located awhile back, URL: http://www.occaneechi-saponi.org/history_2.html

Another very neat site that links some of these names and Ocaneechi/Saponi historically can be located at URL:
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/shades/nativeamericans/occaneechi.htm

These are but just a few informative links and may to some measure assist in identifying some sources for some of the men in Brenda's "list". Blessings~~~Laurie

[sammarroq]

Hi Laurie,

Thanks for the reply and the information, I will check out the links you provided; this may get me headed in the right direction.:)

Thanks,
Shirley

[techteach]

Laurie,

Thanks for the posting. I have a MaCartney who was born in this area, who we think must have been at least mixed. She was known to carry jugs on her head.

Techteach

[Tom]

Hello folks, well from what I can see of all these names the only one that bears any similarity to a non english name is "Manincassa" which looks oddly spanish aswell, any one good with Spanish ? Manan Cassa"?
If its a Native word then we need to do some looking into several aboriginal languages!

**Can anyone state for sure that the men listed in Jack Goin's work are really from " Monasukapanough"?**

[sammarroq]

Hello folks, well from what I can see of all these names the only one that bears any similarity to a non english name is "Manincassa" which looks oddly spanish aswell, any one good with Spanish ? Manan Cassa"?
If its a Native word then we need to do some looking into several aboriginal languages!

**Can anyone state for sure that the men listed in Jack Goin's work are really from " Monasukapanough"?**


Hey Tom,

My husband is Hispanic...Manincassa does not light any bulbs...


Shirley

[BlondeyeLaurie]

Wow folks....I found this informative and interesting bit at of all places, a "MySpace" blog...on a discussion about Religion and Mormons...very interesting...the author is a fellow named Barry Carter, the entire blog in it's entirety can be read at URL:
http://blog.myspace.com/pchylla

To quote the section about the Saponi and Ocaneechi etc:
"Tuesday, December 26, 2006

Saponi/Tutelo (Yésah) History and Timeline
Current mood: focused

Saponi/Tutelo (Yésah)
History and Timeline
By Barry Carter (my cousin)
December 7, 2001


Yésah Indians

Cape Fear, Catawba, Cheraw, Eno, Keyauwee, Saponi, Shakori, Sissipahaw, Waccamaw, Wateree, Waxhaw, Woccon, Appomattox, Monasukapanough, Occoneechee, Totero, Saponi, Stukena, Monacan, Cheraw, Sissaphaw, Metiponski, Saxapaha, Sutaree, Sugah, Pedee, Quiawae, Chacee, Nahyssans, Manahoacs.

Below is info from the Tutelo video documentary, Mecklenburg County history book Life on the Roaring Roanoke and the book Brunswick County VA 1720-1975 and other named sources:

When you read something with Saponi history pass it on. Some of the reports may not have as good sources as we'd like. However, as we piece together this puzzle even these may play an important role.

Located somewhere near Lynchburg. Earliest known settlement is on the banks of the Rivanna in Albemarle County, just north of the University of Virginia. I believe the above is in reference to the Saponi.

On September 1, 1661 Thomas Batts and Abraham Wood led an expedition from Fort Henry to Totero town. They headed due west from Fort Henry which I believe was near Petersburg. Four days into the trip they came to a Saponi Village. This would put Saponi Town near Appomattox County VA. On Sept 9 they came to Totero Town located where present day Salem Va. is located.

The Saponi tribe also known as the Monasukapanough tribe. Between 1650 and 1660 they moved southwest to the Otter Creek area. In 1670 they were visited by Lederer and in 1671 by Thomas Batts. (((The Saponi tribe also known as the Monasukapanough tribe. Between 1650 and 1660 they moved southwest to the Otter Creek area. In 1670 they were visited by Lederer and in 1671 by Thomas Batts. After this they moved with the Tutelo to the junction of the Staunton and Dan Rivers, where each occupied an island on the Roanoke River in Mecklenburg County. In 1701 they again moved south to present day Salisbury, North Carolina, both moves were to prevent attacks from the Iroquis. They again moved, this time toward the white settlements establishing themselves 15 miles west of Windsor North Carolina. A little while later Governor Spottswood placed them and the Tutelo and other tribes near Gholsonville in Brunswick County. Most of the Indians moved north into Pennsylvania after the Iroquis signed the Albany Treaty. One band as late as 1756 remained in North Carolina, it comprised only 14 men and 14 woman, it was later adopted by the Iroquis. Those that had left for Pennsylvania remained there until 1778, locating themselves on the upper waters of the Susquehanna River. Most of the tribe then moved north to Ithaca New York, before moving on to Canada.)))) VaHistory75@CS.com http://virginiahistory.hypermart.net/American_Indians/Saponi.htm

In 1672 the Saponi and Tutelo banded together and moved to Clarksville Va with the Occaneechi on islands adjacent to Occaneechi Island. (Video) The Tutelo were on the island above the Occaneechi and the Saponi was on the Island below the Occaneechi. (P22 Life by the Roaring Roanoke)

[additional source] After this they moved with the Tutelo to the junction of the Staunton and Dan Rivers, where each occupied an island on the Roanoke River in Mecklenburg County. http://virginiahistory.hypermart.net/American_Indians/Saponi.htm

1675 Bacon rebellion

At some point after the Bacon battle the Occaneechi moved to Hillsborough NC on the Eno river.

1680 – Nine tribes signed the Treaty of Middle plantation making them tributary Indians dependant upon the king of England.

1681 Seneca Indians had a battle with the Occaneechi on Occaneechi Island and lost the Island to the Seneca (P22 Life by the Roaring Roanoke)

1682 Occaneechi seen North of Occaneechi Island and planning to move again this year (P22 Life by the Roaring Roanoke)

In 1700 the Saponi and Tutelo moved North of Emporia VA to the Fort on Three Creeks on the Merrhin River. (video)

1701 The John Lawson visits the Occaneechi on the Eno river near Hillsborough NC. (P22 Life by the Roaring Roanoke)

1701 The Saponi and Tutelo were on the Yadkin River. (P22 Life by the Roaring Roanoke). The Saponi and Tutelo moved to Salisbury NC on the Yadkin river. (video)
In 1701 they (Saponi and Tutelo ) again moved south to present day Salisbury, North Carolina, both moves were to prevent attacks from the Iroquis. http://virginiahistory.hypermart.net/American_Indians/Saponi.htm

Some Saponi (Sapponys, the Occaneches, and Steukenhocks) moved to Cliffs of the Neuse in Wayne Co NC. "This People is now made up of the Remnant of Several other Nations, of which the most considerable is the Sapponys, the Occaneches, and Steukenhocks, who not finding themselves Separately Numerous, enough for their Defence, have agreed to unite into one Body, and all of them go under the name of Sapponys." http://www.oldekinstongazette.com/clifneus.htm

1701 Douglas Rights notes in his volume "The American Indian in North Carolina," that in 1701, the Saponi and Tutelo, seeking strength in number, had moved together to Bertie County, a farther reach of Tuscarora territory. http://www.oldekinstongazette.com/clifneus.htm

They again moved, this time toward the white settlements establishing themselves 15 miles west of Windsor North Carolina. http://virginiahistory.hypermart.net/American_Indians/Saponi.htm The Occaneechi, Saponi and Tutelo moved to Saponitown near Winsdor NC (Indian Woods).

In 1708 the Saponi moved South of Emporia VA to Unotie. In 1711 the Occaneechi joined them and in 1712 the Tutelo joined them as well.

1709 some of the Occaneechi, Saponi and Tutelo moved to Saponitown near Winsdor NC (Indian Woods). (Video ) Called Sapona on P22 Life by the Roaring Roanoke

1709 Some moved to Surry County Va (next county to the East of Petersburg) (P22 Life by the Roaring Roanoke)

By 1712 The Stukanox, Occaneechi, Saponi and Tutelo had moved to a tract of land on the Meherrin River east of Fort Christanna in Mecklenburg Co. or Brunswick Co. P22 Life by the Roaring Roanoke)

By 1712, North Carolina offered them terms to help fight the fierce Tuscarora, in return for a promised Albemarle relocation. [It seems that they helped defeat the Tuscarora at Fort Neoroka in Snow Hill NC. http://www.oldekinstongazette.com/clifneus.htm

1714 they became tributary Indians. (P22 Life by the Roaring Roanoke)

In 1714 the Occaneechi, Saponi, Eno, Stuckanocks, Totero (Tutelo) moved to Fort Christanna in Lawrenceville, Va. All Indian at Ft Christanna from this point on called Saponi. . (P23 Life by the Roaring Roanoke). (P 17Brunswick Co VA). In 1714 the Occaneechi, Saponi and Tutelo moved to Fort Christanna in Lawrenceville, Va. (Video) In 1720 some were still in the area. They moved with the Catawba to South Carolina and quickly came back to Ft Christanna.

The Nottaway and Meherrins had lands reserved on the North Side of the river but would not come.

1717 Eleven Catawba Indian children were sent to the fort to be educated.

1718 the Fort Closed. (P29 Brunswick Co VA)

In 1720 some were still in the area (video). For at least 15 years after the fort closed (until at least 1732) some Indians remained at FC. (P23 Life by the Roaring Roanoke).

1721 Chickasaw Indians from N. Mississippi visited the fort in Oct 1721

In 1722 there came peace with the Iroquois (Video). During this time they were being attacked by the Tuscaroras of NC. (P23 Life by the Roaring Roanoke).

They moved with the Catawba in South Carolina and quickly came back to Ft Christanna. Video

1727, October The Catawbas made hostile overtures and "designed to take position of the fort in which there were several Catawbas. . (P29 Brunswick Co VA)

1728 Indians still on FC land when Byrd sent huntsmen on the Dividing Line expedition. (P29 Brunswick Co VA)

1729 Moved to South Carolina with Catawbas. (P23 Life by the Roaring Roanoke)

1731 August four Saponi killed by Nottoway while working on Colonel Robert Munford's plantation in FC area. (Brunswick Co Book)

1732 Returned to Va and given the right to settle other lands (P23 Life by the Roaring Roanoke)

Around 1740 many Saponi and Tutelo went North. Occaneechi not mentioned (P23 Life by the Roaring Roanoke). (P30 Brunswick Co VA)

*see part2*

[BlondeyeLaurie]

Part 2, contd:
"12 May 1742, Orange Co..Va, reference to "about twenty-six of the Saponi Indians that inhabit on "Colonel Spotswood's land. Charles Griffin had been a white man who taught school in the Saponi Indian town at Fort Christiana from January 1715 NS to the spring of 1718. From Linda's post.

Some individuals likely remained. (P23 Life by the Roaring Roanoke).

[additional source] Saponi and Tutelo moved North to Penn and many stayed in Brunswick Co. Video

The Great Occaneechi trading path shifted from Clarksville about 30 miles down stream to a place called Moniseep. (P23 Life by the Roaring Roanoke). Looking on a map this would be Roanoke Rapids. THIS COULD TIE INTO CRYSTAL'S COMMUNITY OR THE HALIWA-SAPONI.

1744 They were in Shomikin Penn.

Next they moved to Skorgori Village in Cataeissa Penn.

In 1753 some moved to Tioga Penn

Around 1753 John Yates/Yeatts built the first blockhouse in the Shenandoah Valley region of Virginia, now the Yates Tavern in Gretna, listed on the National Register of Historic Places. This became a waystation on the much traveled Wagon Road to North Carolina, which corresponded with the Great Indian Warpath for much of its length. The blockhouse's purpose was to protect the Indians in nearby Saponi-Town and a nucleus of pioneer families of what became Pittsylvania County from hostile Indians, chiefly the Cherokee and Shawnee. Some of the surnames are Yates, Winn , Sizemore, Adkins, Shelton , Gregory, Tapley, etc. This documents that the Saponi had become "fort Indians" with many intermarriages with the Virginians and at least one of their towns was about ten miles NE of present-day Danville in the 1750s. In the courthouse records of Pittsylvania Co. you will find many taxpayers, slave owners and landowners who are also registered as "Indian" or "Free Colored." Most of these are likely Saponi. Submitted by Don Panther-Yates - dpanther@gasou.edu

1769 Some Indians still in the Fort Christanna area. (P30 Brunswick Co VA)

As late as the year 1775 the author James Adair reported that the Saponi Nation was still living in Southside Virginia.

The Fort Christanna Saponi-Occoneechee Indian Tribe has oral history and family genealogy, of Siouan Indian ancestry, going back to 1775 and before, with people still living on the reservation land, from that time until today."

Neat read. Blessings~~~Laurie

[sammarroq]

I googled Manicassa, here is what I found.


eBay: History of Orange County Virginia genealogy (item 5570817209 ...
... Lung, Lynch, Lyne, Lyon, Mackenny, Macon, Madison, Madisons, Magruder, Mahanes, Mahone, Mallory, Manincassa, Mann, Mannen, Manning, Mansfield, Manspile, ...
cgi.ebay.com/History-of-Orange-County-Virginia-genealogy_W0QQitemZ5570817209QQihZ007QQcategoryZ20 931QQcmd... - 72k -


http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-BOOKS/2006-12/1165505366



Another link with Manincassa and the others can be found at the link below

A HISTORY OF ORANGE COUNTY, VIRGINIA
From its Formation in 1734 (O. S.) to the end of Reconstruction in 1870 ; compiled mainly from Original Records
With a Brief Sketch of the Beginnings of Virginia, a Summary of Local Events to 1907, and a Map
By W. W. SCOTT
.State Law Librarian, Member of the State Historical
.Society, and for ten years State Librarian
of Virginia
RICHMOND, VA.
EVERRETT WADDEY CO.
http://www.newrivernotes.com/va/oran1.htm

excerpt: Sundry Indians, among them Manincassa, Captain Tom, Blind Tom, Foolish Zack, and Little Zack, were before Court for "terrifying" one Lawrence Strother, ...


Shirley

[BlondeyeLaurie]

Just found this link today and it too is a fab read...discussing the Blackfeet and Saponi etc...even makes mention of site member Richard Haithcock. URL:
http://cherokeeblackfeetcultural.bizopiaweb.com/Default.aspx?tabid=668470

Enjoy~~~Laurie

[Aubrey G. Cole]

Laurie;
Just to say I read you posts today on Saponi Names and found them all to be quite informative as were the url's you posted.as for me gal, I say keep up the good work as I always enjoy your information which has been a big help to me in my researching my genealogical line, the coles, bowmans, collins, gibsons,goins etc.
as always
Aubrey G Cole

[BlondeyeLaurie]

Hello Aubrey...thanks so much darlin...you make digging genealogy with you ever so fun and interesting...love and hugs to you and the rest of the family. Blessings from here to there~~~Laurie:o

[tianicwanga]

hello i am new herre and just started researching my family history
i have a freat grandmother with the given name of Mela or Meli and married name of pitts was told that she was cherokee and or part blackfoot but have no info on her origins? If you can help it would be greatly appreaciated .
thanks
tia

[Linda]

Welcome, Tianicwanga, glad you found your way here. May I suggest you post what you know about this line, names, places, timeframe, etc. to the 'Share Genealogy' section, using some of the surnames as the title? You'll get better noticed there by the right people to help you dig. Also, use our search feature if you haven't already for your names. If you haven't seen my article at www.saponitown.com/Blackfoot.htm is sums up most of the research and hypothesizing we've done on the Blackfoot ID.

[whitehawk]

There is also a book by Paul Heinegg named Free African Americans of North Carolina, Virginia, and South Carolina, It has genealogies from the colonial period to about 1820 that contain a lot of the same surnames. Back then you could be Indian or African depending on who was looking or what was happening at the time. I found my Benjamin Richardson in there who was I believe to be Saponi.

PS Paul has a web page with a lot of the same information.

Hi rodtree20744, I to have family that is documented in this book and I agree with you. The name of the book is Free African Americans of N.C., Virginia and S.C. but many of these families documeted in this book were Indian or Mixed Indian from various tribes throughout this region. It even has sections listed in the book that make references to indian families.