Melungeon Surnames

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Melungeon=Portuguese (Caucasian)/Amerindian hybrid, probably first
appearing in the New World 50 years before the arrival of the English at
Jamestown, VA.

According to journals recorded by the first exployers sent out of Jamestown to explore the lands to the south the men came upon a group of people living among friendly Indians in log cabins and speaking a broken Elizabethan English. The people wore black clothing and the men had long beards. At a certain time of the day a bell would toll and the people would stop whatever they were doing and bough in prayer. These people identified themselves as Portagee. (source: Brent Kennedy said he found the info in the archives of NC)

NOTE: If this is correct, and I believe it was, then the people that landed at Jamestown was not the first settlers to reach the colonies as the textbooks so state.

ADAMS ADKINS ALLEN ALLMOND ASHWORTH *

BARKER BARNES BASS BECKLER BELCHER BEDGOOD BELL
BENNETT BERRY BEVERLY
BIGGS BOLEN BOLLING BOLTON BOONE BOWLIN
BOWLING BOWMAN BRADBY BRANHAM BRAVBOY
BRIGER/BRIDGER BROGAN BROOKS
BROWN BUNCH BULLION BURTON BUTLER BUTTERS
BUXTON BYRD *

CAMPBELL CARRICO CARTER CASTEEL CAUDILL CHAPMAN
CHAVIS CLARK CLOUD COAL
COFFEY COLE COLEMAN COLES COLLEY COLLIER COLLINS
COLLINSWORTH COLYER
COOPER CORMAN COUNTS COX COXE CRIEL CROSTON
CROW CUMBA CUMBO CUMBOW
CURRY CUSTALOW *

DALTON DARE DAVIS DENHAM DENNIS DIAL DOOLEY
DORTON DOYLE DRIGGERS DULA
DYE DYESS *

ELY EPPS EVANS *

FIELDS FREEMAN FRENCH *

GALLAGHER GANN GARLAND GIBSON GIPSON GOINS
GOINGS GORVENS GOWAN GOWEN
GRAHAM GREEN(E) GWINN *

HALL HAMMON(D) HARMON HARRIS HARVIE HARVEY
HAWKES HENDRICKS HENDRIX
HILL HILLMAN HOGGE HOLMES HOPKINS HOWE
HYATT *

JACKSON JAMES JOHNSON JONES *

KEITH(E) KENNEDY KISER *

LANGSTON LASIE LAWSON LOCKLEAR LOPES LOWRY LUCAS
*

MADDOX MAGGARD MAJOR MALE MALONE(Y) MARSH
MARTIN MAYLE MINARD MINER
MINOR MIZER MOORE MORLEY MOSELY
MOZINGO MULLINS *

NASH NELSON NEWMAN NICCANS NICHOLS NOEL NORRIS *

ORR OSBORN OSBORNE OXENDINE *

PAGE PAINE PATTERSON PERKINS PERRY PHELPS PHIPPS
PRINDER POLLY POWELL
POWERS PRITCHARD PRUITT *

RAMEY RASNICK REAVES REVELS REEVES RICE
RICHARDSON RIDDLE RIVERS
ROBERSON ROBERTSON ROBINSON RUSSELL *

SAMMONS SAMPSON SAWYER SCOTT SEXTON SHAVIS
SHEPHARD SHEPHERD SHORT
SHORTT SIZEMORE SMILING SMITH STALLARD STANLEY
STEEL STEVENS STEWART
STROTHER SWEATT SWETT SWINDALL *

TALLY TACKETT TAYLOR THOMPSON TIPTON TOLLIVER
TUPPANCE TURNER *

VANOVER VICARS VICCARS VICKERS *

WARE WATTS WEAVER WHITE WHITED WILKINS WILLIAMS
WILLIAMSON WILLIS WILSON
WISBY WISE WOOD WRIGHT WYATT WYNN

[CoheeLady]

Hello Brenda,
I read the list of surnames & noticed that the Custalow name was listed as being a Melungeon surname. The Custalow family are Mattaponi Indians. They still have a reservation, which is known to be the oldest one in the USA.

Another thing is that a person that is Melungeon, must also have African American ancestry, along with Indian & European, as I understand it to be. This is how it is describe by Brent Kennedy. Some of my family surnames do match this list, but since I have no African American ancestry, I can't claim to be Melungeon.

Thanks for posting the list of names, as it will be of help to many people! I too know about the bell & prayer time of the Melungeons, through reading about it. Thanks again. God Bless.

Coheelady

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

CoheeLady,
The name above was taken from Kennedy's book on Melungeons, however, As I see it, the number of names have expanded over the years. I would be more interested in seeing the names of the origional "People" found living among the friendly Indians. I doubt there were more than perhaps a dozen families.


The origional "People" said they were Pourtugee. I have a son in law and grandson that are Pourtugee and they are dark complected with dark hair and eyes. If you stop and think......these "People" were here before Jamestown, mid to late 1500's . At that time there were no slaves. These "People" intermarried with the Indians so that in a few generations they would have been mostly Indian. (Melungeons...a mixture) It would be years later that the African Americans were introduced to the friendly Indians. So, as I see it, a Melungeon could be a mixture of Pourtugee/Indian/ black/white/Spanish or any combination thereof.

According to several researchers and authors of material on the Melungeons, they were "friendly Indians , who had once lived in Virginia" Kennedy's book says that COLLINS and SHEPARD borrowed the names from the settlers in Virginia. In my research I discovered an Indian commissioner named John Collins that also served as interperter. Indians aften took the name of somebody they admired. Is this where our COLLINS began? Perhaps we may never know.

[-cr21-]

Actually the DNA tests are pretty accurate and does make sense that the Melungeons decend from Turk and Syrian slaves. To explain the praying, Muslims pray 5 times each day, It's been documented that the Moors were trading with ndns long before Columbus set foot on this side of the world. His navigators for the trip were Moors. It's also documented that Islam was practiced by some ndns as well, old treaties with a signee having a Muslim name. It makes sense they would say Portuguese or Spanish. They wouldn't have to worry about being harassed for being Arab and Muslim. Remember they came here not too long after the crusades. It's still an issue today, so it was pretty fresh in their minds almost 400 years ago. Just putting in my thoughts.

[Linda]

One other thought, Portugal isn't much of an issue these day on the world stage, but in Columbus day they were significant as a maritime nation. People could have been reporting they were Portugeuse because they were Portugeuse. It seems in that day and time, if there were Moors here, there would have been Portugeuse as well. Wasn't Portugal a Moorish colony for a good long while? The Moorish conquest of southern Europe is another issue white culture has been in a lot of denial about. It didn't end for the Serbian side of my family till the first world war, and one of the reasons western culture was so mystified by the ugly outbreaks over there in the last decade. They're in total denial about the supremacy of the Arab world over their own butts in the not too distant past.

[Tom]

Hello All, well the portuguese issue is interesting, keep in mind that the MAY Flower stopped in New Found Land , early Canada, to replenish suplies and then go on to VA.
Alos these " Newfies" have always had ties to Portugal, perhaps the Melungeons are just a branch of those people that settled farther south.
From what I gather the history books in the USA are just as incomplete as ours are here in Canada.
Don't forget about the early Vikings in N.F. l. either they were there 1000 years prior to 1492!
For a controvercial look at pre-sponsored voyages to America see the books by Berry Fell, I don't hold with all of his theories but some may have something to them, HO HO HO. Tom

[Dan Akin]

Brenda; I would really like to discuss Melungeons. My greatgrandmother on my mom's side was Sarah Margaret Stone. Although she had red hair she looked like a full blood indian. She said she was "Black Irish." Her mother was Emma Elizabeth Barnes. Emma's sister was Levicia Ann Barnes. She was my great great grandma on my dad's side.
Other names on this Melungeon list in my family are Green, Wynn, and Robinson.
Other names related to and married in with my family here in Boone Co. Mo. are Collins, and Wyatt.
An interesting figure related to my Neal family is Charles Harmon (Harmon is also on the list) a.k.a. Mag the Greyhorse. He was supposed to be 1/2 cherokee and led some cherokee men to fight for George Washington in the Rev. War.
It is said that the first Sizemore to come to America was listed as a Portuguese Jewish endentured slave in the Jamestown Colony in the early 1600's.
I've got all of the Melungeon physical characteristics on Dr. Brent Kennedy's list for what it's worth. The bump on the back of my head, eye folds, and shovel teeth.
I don't know much about my Barnes line. Emma and Levicy's father was William and his father was John Barnes. They came through Ky. from Va. I think. Dan Akin.

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Dan,

I am not an expert on the subject. My search began when I followed the basic rule in genealogy and that is to start with your own parents and document birth,death, & Marriages going backward. Trouble was that on my father's side I couldn't get past my great grandfather with documentation for the longest time. I spoke to a librarian in Pike County Kentucky and she ask if I was searching for a Melungeon. I didn't want to sound like the "dumb hillbilly":confused: that I was so I just said I didn't think so. After that I set out to find out what a Melungeon was.

I honestly believe the TRUE Melungeons probably numbered no more then a dozen families living among the friendly Indians . They could have been a group shipwrecked off the coast of NC and taken in by the Natives of the area. You have to remember at that time the Indians didn't have anything to fear from these people. They weren't after their land they just wanted to survive.
Decades later they started intermarrying so the children would be half blood, then by the second and third generation they were mostly Indian.

Of the surnames listed above I have Allmond/Allman, Bennett, Bell, Collins, Jones, Patterson, Perry, Taylor,Williams and Wood in my family tree.
Collins is one of the core names found in the Melungeon community along with Gipson, Shepard, Mullins, Johnson, and Goins. When Vardy Collins first moved to Newman's Ridge in Tennessee he was said to have come from Virginia where he lived as an Indian. In 1797 Wilkes Co. NC my Meredith Collins lived on a small parcel of land that adjoined Vardy Collins. Vardy was the son of Samuel Collins son of Old Thomas Collins of Flatt River. Also living in the same area in Wilkes Co. NC was Lewis Collins and David Collins who also appears in Captain James McDaniel's Company with my Meredith. David & Lewis followed Vardy to Tennessee abt 1800 and Meredith settled in across the border in Russell County,Virginia. Within just a couple years David and Lewis were also in Russell county.
For those that claim ancestry to David Collins 1750 I have often wondered if the David from McDaniel's Company could be David 1750. If so then I could at least prove the connection. I can't find any documentation on McDaniel's Fincastle Militia except the roster list which I found at Christianburg,Va. The forth Collins on that list was George Collins who settled in Peachbottom (Grayson county) in the year 1767.
In 30+ years of research I have never found Meredith's parents. Of Meredith's children they married into Mullins, Coats, Johnson, Toner/Stoner,Roark, Sizemore, Holloway, and Ray out of Bertie Co. NC

I am not familiar with the Barnes name but it is interesting you mention HARMON. There is a rumor that has been passed down through the family that the Collins name had been changed from Harmon. Perhaps this is why I have never found the parents of Meredith.....At first I thought the name change might be caused from Meredith deserting from the REVWAR or something kind of disgrace but Meredith is listed on McDaniel's roster as a Collins so the name change had to be before Meredith,perhaps his father.

You mention Missouri.....Several Melungeon families left Tennessee between 1820 -30 for Indiana. There they took up grants on parcels of land but only stayed long enough to make improvements and sell it for a profit. Most of these families then migerated to Missouri. The David Collins 1750 line was one of those families.

I hope something in this has been of help.

[CoheeLady]

Dear Brenda,
Thanks for your earlier reply to my post regarding the Melungeons. I thought I would share with you our family surnames that are on the list, you so kindly provided. Sunames: BURTON, GOING, PATTERSON, & TURNER.
Sincerely,
Coheelady

[Dan Akin]

Thank you for your information Brenda!
I have seen the list of the Melungeon "Tribes" listing the different groups under their patriarch's name. I beleive the real Melungeons were Indians.
I think it was in 1886 that a fellow named Harvey Wyatt came here to Columbia Mo.. He said he was from Indiana and was 7/8ths cherokee. He also said that he had been a coachman for President Harrison at one time. I don't know if that's true but he did have a wagon hauling business in Boone Co. for some time. His children married into my Cherokee Green family and became my cousins. They later went into the grocery business. When Harvey got old he would take kids out for campfires and tell them about the Indians. This was in a series of articles in our local paper.
The first american settler of central Mo. was Ira Nash in 1804. He had gotten a grant from the Spanish government for land in what is now Cooper and Boone Cos. . He had long hair and wore earrings in his ears. One of his descendants said that his first wife was a cherokee. This cherokee bride must have been despondent for she commited suicide. Ira was said to have buried her in the Missouri riverbed so that the whites couldn't dig her up. When Ira died he was buried in an Indian mound standing up so that he could glare at his neighbors who didn't like him. Ira married again and in the list of his descendants are the Wilsons. One of which started the Boone Co. Historical Society another became Govorner Roger Wilson of Mo. and they are the sources of my story.
Dan.

[rosebudsaponi]

What really interests me is the fact that all these "melungeon" names are only known as melungeon in TN and KY. Taylor, for example, in WVA is known as a "white" name. Collins in VA is known as an FPC name as well as Goins. I think alot of people go on a tangent with the category of Melungeon. You have to stop and think about the location of these families and the terminology that is used geographically. Some of the same families that are known FPC's in one part of the country are known as another race in another. Another example, the Brass Ankles, the Portuguese, the Creeks. All these lines in these "racial groups" are considered different according to location but yet, they are all strong NDN names.

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Crystal, It is great to see you posting. Wishes for a healthy and safe New Year.......
Meredith Collins was listed in Floyd Co. Ky as Mullato on his 1810 tax list and Meredith and his eldest son Bradley were listed as FPC on the 1820 census which also listed Meredith's 3rd common law wife Millie JOHNSON and their son as "slaves" . family oral history says Millie was full blood Cherokee.

At one location in Kentucky between 1810 -20 there were about 45 Collins families all living near each other. The Collins are a difficult tribe to follow as they had large families and named their children the same first names over and over. One researcher told me that he thought they chose a leader that was light enough to pass for white to lay claim to the land. Once they had the land the families or rest of the tribe moved onto it.

[Dan Akin]

Brenda; One of your family names caught my eye. My Benjamin Green while in Henry Co. Ky., ca. 1800 to 1833, signed a marriage bond for Daniel Jones and Elizabeth Hughey. My Benjamin had lived,ca. 1786 to 1790 in the Old n.e.Tn. Sullivan Co..
Could this be part of your family? Some research points to him coming from Newman's Ridge. Dan.

[rosebudsaponi]

that is possible but from what I can gather and what I have seen, they were also known as the hill people. KY was still very young and I don't think they had much of a problem accessing land. You figure by 1810, there were only a few counties and Harrison Co had already been overthrown by Byrd and 600 NDNs.

As far as the communal effect, how long did they live clumped together like that? Did they have a "social" gov't amongst themselves? I would be curious to know if they actually were living as a tribe still?

Would be a good idea to check school records for the local communities. If you can find basis that they functioned as an independent community, you will have quite a few eggs in your basket.

[TuckahoePrincess]

This topic (a favorite of mine) has brought up some interesting questions in my mind.... I've found census records for many of my Tennessee relations, and their racial identity is not specified... Has anyone else experienced that?

[CoheeLady]

Hello TuckahoePrincess!

You are not alone in finding ancestors that are listed on the census without a race given. As we have come across the same thing in our research. What year do you find the race not listed, in your family? I'll have to look again at the census copies I have to let you know the year in which we find our ancestors listed without a race given. I know that at the top of the census it reads; "FREE INHABITANTS OF ROCKBRIDGE COUNTY, VIRGINIA". Most researchers will tell you that if the race isn't given that it means they were white. However they have no proof for this statement, it's only a guess on their part. If they were white, why use the term "Free Inhabitants"? As we all know if they were white they would be free, so there seems to have been no need for this census heading!

Another thing you need to make sure that you have looked at the whole census record, not just your family. As the census will at times have "WHITE" listed & all those below that may not have a race listed, but that means they are "WHITE", until you see a change in race listed. Of course we all know that "white" doesn't tell the true ethnic background of a family, due to the many Intermarriages amoung Europeans & American Indian families. It's just a label, as far as I'm concerned & nothing more.
Take Care & God Bless
Coheelady :)

[Grace Newton]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum and not quite sure how to introduce myself. I'm researching my Anderson family from Wood County, WVA. And that's why I'm here. Many of your family histories sound quite a bit like mine.

What I'm looking for now is where my Collins line comes from and who my Collins ancestor really was. The family history says Rupert Collins was a surveyor who led a surveying party to the upper waters of the South Branch of the Potomac River. Somehow he met with the Shawnees led by Pucksinwah. Rupe Collins fell in love with Pucksinwah's daughter, Tecumapease (who is the sister of Tecumseh) and they married. Their daughter, Jane Collins married Lewis Full. Family history say Lewis descends from one of the many Dutch settlers that sought homes on the South Branch of the Potomac River. Lewis and Jane Collins Full lived near Senaca Rocks, WVA for awhile, then moved further west to Wood Co. My Great Great Grandmother, Mary Ann Full Anderson is the daughter of Lewis and Jane's son, Andrew Full and his wife, Emma Jane Hartley. Mary Ann Full married Michael Staats Anderson.

Sorry to run on so long, but, believe it or not, this is the short version - there's another off-shoot of the tale that brings in Mary Ice, the captive, as either the mother of or the sister of, Tecumseh and one of the grandmothers of our family.

The Fulls have always sworn up and down the story is true. The only problem with this wonderful history is 1) I can't prove it and 2) I have a hard time believing it. For one thing, I can't get past Rupert Collins or Lewis Full to find their parents. Down line from Rupert, Jane and Lewis, no problem. The only other reference to Rupert Collins I've found on the internet is a history item talking about an Indian Scout called Capt Rupert Collins in Ohio which I lost in a harddrive crash and haven't been able to find the reference again.

Once I started reading about the Melungeons, a great light went off - I'm wondering now if Rupert Collins was one of the families who decided to hide out in the hills and also, if Lewis Full was actually Black Dutch. That would answer many questions.

Our family also has Sheppards in the tree. We have many Melungeon characteristics - shovel teeth, skull bumps, etc. If I posted photos of some of my family, you'd see we certainly look as if we have Native American genes - many with straight black hair, black eyes, high cheekbones, etc. Our daughter married a Jarrells from Pulaski, Va. and I understand they also have Native American as does Jeff's father's maternal line, McGgolthin. As you can see, I have many questions and hope I can help others here with their search.

By the way, my Grandma Anderson also told us we were related to Chief Cornstalk, of the Shawnee tribe. We certainly were living in the right terriotory, only a few miles from Point Pleasant, WVA.

[Linda]

Welcome Grace. That is a very interesting family story. I am glad to see you're skeptical, it makes it all the more interesting. How exhaustively have you looked for this evidence? Is there still a possibility that it may be true?

We have a line that leads back to some French semi-notables, with small parts in Napolean's drama. Our ancestor is noted as having died childless as a young man in the history books, (we know this was staged and he escaped to Germany) so the one time we ventured to some authority, at the museum in LA where his portrait is hanging, he scoffed at us, let us know what the books say, and turned us away.

So, there's all the more skepticism when an ancestor happens to be 'somebody,' relatively speaking. Whoever the mixed blooded people in your family were, they were obviously very bright, either to have been tied to such special people, or to have researched and imagined so interesting a tale, and deserve our respect. Picturing their ancestry in such a positive light beats the hell out of the overloud denials so many others reverted to.

[techteach]

Grace:
When I joined this forum, I was looking for a reference to Blackfoot in my ggggrandmother. What I found in my research was evidence to indicate she was likely Shawnee (The Mormons list her as Shawnee.), as the tribe members of Black Hoof (sometimes called Black Foot) called themselves Blackfoot and lived in the area she came from. Her children married into families believed to be Shawnee from another tribe who came from near Shepherdstown, WV. Anyway, in my attempt to find information, I am reading a biography on Tecumseh. His mother was, according to the book, a Cherokee captive named Methotasa or A Turtle Laying Her Eggs in the Sand. However, I do believe that oral histories usually have some sort of truth in them. Certainly, I have found out that my grandmother's claim that we have native american ancestry has turned out true, in fact, more so than she claimed. I now communicate with native cousins on the Internet that I never knew I had. We are investigating the mysteries together now.

Cindy

[TuckahoePrincess]

Yeah, I'm related to Cordell Hull-- who was Secretary of State under FDR... and who won the Nobel Peace Prize-- through his mother, who is noted by the history books as being part-Indian or part-Cherokee. Apparently, HER mother was the full-blooded Cherokee... which is interesting, because Cordell Hull's grandmother was a Flowers-- who is documented in MY family tree as a daughter to the brother of my progenitor (as far back as we can trace, in fact)... AND they were all from Buckingham County, Virginia-- the right place to be for the Tuckahoe/Saponi/Cherokee amalgamation to occur. It just makes you think differently about your genealogical search. It is less of a search for individuals (although that is paramount) than it is a search for a sense for who these people were and why and how they "passed". Pre-Colonial America was a helluva lot more multicultural than the history books let on. Remember that "history is written by those who win", but history can be rewritten by those who survive. :)

[Linda]

TechTeach, where have you seen it said that the followers of Blackhoof are sometimes called Blackfoot? I had wondered at the very beginning of my research on this if our Blackfoot ID could have been a garbling of Blackhoof, but I never found anything further on it.


"History is written by those who win", but history can be rewritten by those who survive

I like that.

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Grace said:The Fulls have always sworn up and down the story is true. The only problem with this wonderful history is 1) I can't prove it and 2) I have a hard time believing it. For one thing, I can't get past Rupert Collins or Lewis Full to find their parents. Down line from Rupert, Jane and Lewis, no problem. The only other reference to Rupert Collins I've found on the internet is a history item talking about an Indian Scout called Capt Rupert Collins in Ohio which I lost in a harddrive crash and haven't been able to find the reference again.

Welcome Grace, I am also a Collins descendant & researcher. It's funny you posted this because just the other day I pulled up the website of "Full & Collins Families of WVa." As I read the site I realized that this is close to the same territory that my Collins seem to find themselves after leaving North Carolina. Question:
Did the Collins return to the mountains because they had been there or had families there in the past? I also searched for Rupe/Rupert Collins thinking he would have been about the age for my Meredith Collins (b. 1760) father. I couldn't find anything on him either but you have to realize that there was probably a indian name then they took the Collins name so we might never be able to find the documented truth.

Brenda

[Grace Newton]

Thanks for all your information and help. I'm not giving up on finding my Rupert Collins and Lewis Full but sometimes I wonder if they leaped full-grown from the forehead of one of their Pendelton County mountains <<G>>

I was looking over my research links and wondered if you all are aware of the one I posted below. It's specific to the hill country and, for example, there's quite a few Collins listed. Part of the site shows families who are linked to each other - the rest is unrelated families. I've found a few of my connections there.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~deschart/wdc.html

[techteach]

Linda:
Give me a few days to locate the copy of the Web site I found the Blackfoot information on. I have an interview on Friday and a concert for my son tomorrow in Indiana. I can look this weekend.
It was a reference that I found from an historian dated (as I recall), 1910. I also found a distant cousin in my research who is a Shawnee studying our genealogy who also stated that this was the case, that Black Hoof's people called themselves Blackfoot. It made sense to me then that my ggggrandmother, who apparently called herself Blackfoot but whom the Mormons identified as Shawnee, might have belonged to this group. Further research placed Black Hoof's group in her area of Pennsylvania. I may not be able to find that piece of informtion though. I printed off the former Web site, but I don't think I printed off the latter.
I do not believe that this negates your theory though, Linda. Why could Black Hoof's people not be made up of other displaced tribes who joined the Shawnee? I also found a Shawnee treaty that bears a Shawnee signature closely related to Tutelo, something like Totala. I can find that site for you too if you like.

Cindy

[Linda]

I know a fellow who's a descendant of Chief Blackhoof. He wasn't adverse to the idea that perhaps we'd misidentified Black hoof for Blackfoot, but he didn't mention that any of them called themselves Blackfoot. It will be interesting to see what he and his family think of this evidence. I guess they should know.

[rosebudsaponi]

Cindy,
I would like to see that treaty. Linda, weren't the Totero on the Roanoke at the three islands at one point?

[Linda]

Yes, one of the islands was theirs.

[HowardU97]

This is an interesting topic. I noticed my mother's family surname Richardson on the list of Melungeon surnames. My mother's family is primarily that of present day Haliwa-Saponi and mixed Cherokee lineage. I've been trying to trace the roots and went as far back as to the early 1700's at Fort Christianna. But from what I'm told the Haliwa in my family adopted the name Richardson after they were Christianized. I'm still trying to find any evidence of pre-Christian names. This is a very informative topic, keep up the good work.

[Linda]

I'd be interested in what you've found going back that far. From what I've heard there seems to be a gap of a generation or two between the historical mention of the people at Fort Christanna, and surnames of their descendants. What are the earliest dates on your family?

[HowardU97]

In 1780-82 Benjamin, William, and John Richardson (brothers) received land grants in Halifax County, NC near the county line. According to my uncle Sam an Elder of the Haliwa-Saponi. Joseph was at Fort Christianna, he was taught at the Indian school run by Charles Griffin from William & Mary. He moved with his family to Northampton County, NC then to Edgecombe County, NC. Benjamin, William, and John could read, write, and were familiar with the legal system. I'm waiting to see what documents I can obtain besides the roster of Col. William Eaton regiment that lists 2 William Richardsons. I think it might have been William Sr., and William Jr. I also found the link in other soldiers wills, that listed Benjamin and William. It that some may have served with Benjamin Richardson, and Elijah Bass who would eventually marry his widow Mary Bass who was also a Bass before her first marriage. Elijah and Mary were both the great grandchildren of John Bass who married the Nansemond Keziah Elizabeth Tucker. I'm planning on making a trip to Hollister, NC were the Haliwa reside (were my parents and extended family are) to obtain what documents W.R. Richardson (Chief Talking Eagle and my cousin) originally hired a genealogist to conduct the research back in the mid to late 50's.

[Linda]

Do you know if there are documents that they signed, evidencing they were literate? Is it oral history that the father or maybe grandfather, Joseph was at Mr. Griffin's school? I believe that was in the 1720s. Although, let's see, it would more likely be men at least in their forties getting land grants, I would think, so that would put the brothers' births in the 1740s, so if Joseph was in his thirties when they were born, that would make him the right age for Mr. Griffin's school.

Thanks for sharing that information.

[HowardU97]

I have transcribed copies of Joseph's varoius land aquisitions and sales from 1741-1742 in Northampton County, NC. In 1745 he moved to Edgecombe County, NC he aquired and sold land there until 1752. It was oral tradition that I was told Joseph was literate, but I figured his land negotiations re-affirmed that.

[Linda]

Definitely. That's quite an adaptation in one generation. That must have been one heck of a lifetime. How much land was he living on? Was he farming?

Most of the stories I've heard about men of color who acquired their own land in those times, there was a white father in the background. Was there any hint of that with him?

[HowardU97]

Joseph had 400 acres in Northampton County, NC and over 400+ acres in Edgecombe County, NC. He was listed as a planter. Through oral tradition I was always told of 2 brothers that came from England that settled in NC and married Indian women. I haven't found any evidence of that yet. Benjamin just claimed to be Saponi, nothing mentioned of white blood from him.

[Linda]

In what context did Benjamin identify himself as Saponi? Maybe he was moreso than his father, if his mother was also Saponi, and his dad was half.

[rosebudsaponi]

Howard,
Are your families from Northampton County, NC? I see you are in Norfolk, I am in Chesapeake and my lines are from Gaston, Roanoke Rapids, Enfield areas of Halifax and Northampton. Would be interested in talking with you.

[HowardU97]

My family is from Hollister, NC. They migrated from Fort Christianna, VA in the early 1700's to Northampton, NC in 1741-45. To Edgecombe in 1745-1752. Then to Halifax County, NC in 1780-82. They have been in Halifax County. NC since 1782. My great-great grandfather Reese Richardson was born in Halifax County, NC but lived in Louisburg,NC and in Bethlehem,NC in Warren County. He donated the land for what was later the Haliwa-Saponi Indian school in Bethlehem. My great grandfather Nick Sr. lived in Warren County,NC and moved back to Hollister in the late 1890's were my grandfather and my mother grew up. The church my mother and father attend is Pine Chapel, in Hollister, NC. My great grandfather helped to build the original church, and my grandfather helped to build the fellowship hall and classrooms. I do live in Norfolk and you can e-mail me at howardu9798@hotmail.com. I'll be happy to share whatever information that I have.

[techteach]

Linda and Crystal:
Well my evidence for the Shawnee calling themselves Blackfoot is pretty slim. Try as I could, I looked both online and throughout the house, until my husband made a comment about the time I was taking. The best I can come up with is the following URL for Black Hoof being known as Black Foot http://www.heritagepursuit.com/Seneca/SenChapII.htm . I did find Ohio towns named after their chiefs and a reference to "Black Hoof's Shawnees", but, while I am sure I remembered an article mentioned in a digital library history document online, I can neither find it in the house printed nor online. I do not appear to have bookmarked it either. Frustrating as it is to have egg on my face here in this online forum, it is more frustrating because I spent so much time trying to find out why my ggggrandmother called herself blackfoot, and that document caused me to quit looking, because it satified me.
The URL with the treaty name, Crystal, is http://digital.library.okstate.edu/kappler/Vol2/treaties/sen0383.htm. That, too, may leave me with egg on my face.

[TuckahoePrincess]

With regards to the Shawnee/Blackfoot connection, perhaps Blackfoot was a derogatory term given by outsiders that stuck. I, too, have an oral family history of being many things-- one, being Shawnee/Blackfoot... another, being Tuckahoe... another, being Cherokee. I've come to the conclusion that my ancestors were "something else" first-- a smaller, less protected tribe... that moved to be absorbed into the larger, better-protected Cherokee.

TuckahoePrincess

[rosebudsaponi]

I know that the Greenville Treaty of 1795 was signed by a member of the Shawnee and in parenthesis it is written Black Hoof. This may be a good lead for us to follow. Considering the migration patterns that we already know of and the traceable piedmont names, it may be part of this group of the "Tutelo" that was absorbed by the Cayuga in latter yrs. I'll go get the treaty out of my car in the morning and post it.

[rosebudsaponi]

Howard,
One side of the family I have yet to trace is my Walker and Paschall lines. Both from Warren County. What do you know regarding the lineage of the Haliwa and related names? I know they were both Native lines. Again, too much of the family lores and that look that we all seem to have. hehe...Linda, you know what I 'm gapping about. For those of you that don't, Barry and I could go for brother/sister. LOL

[techteach]

Well, I still can't find the Web site that I found last fall about Black Hoof/Blackfoot, but I did find in the biography I am reading that Black Hoof, as principle chief of the Shawnee, established his capital town at Wapakoneta, Ohio but called his town, Black Hoof's Town. The name Black Hoof/Foot chose for his town was contrary to Shawnee custom which would have named it after his Shawnee sept, Chalahgawtha. Black Hoof and his Shawnees did not follow Tecumseh, splitting the Shawnee who had not yet gone across the Mississippi into those that followed Tecumseh and those that followed Black Hoof.

[Linda]

When I first started to investigate what the Blackfoot ID could possibly mean, I wondered if our family had garbled Blackhoof into Blackfoot. I got excited about it when I learned that he had a few things in common with some people in our family and wrote a page about it I put online, just there for family, not publicly published, but maybe the search engines somehow found it and you came across it. Maybe I'm the unwitting source of that info. I'm not surprised you can't find anything now, because I looked myself and never found any leads in that direction.

At this point, I've heard from hundreds of families with the Blackfoot ID and found a distinct pattern in surnames and locations that coincides with Eastern Siouan of the VA/NC Piedmont. There are some families with a tradition of being Blackfoot Cherokee. The evidence there is of an intermarriage of the Eastern Siouan and Cherokee families. I would think that an ID of Blackfoot Shawnee would indicate that same kind of thing.

There's no reason to attribute any kind of derogatory tone to this ID. These families have carried that ID forward freely for many generations. I believe it's a name that this group of people chose for themselves, who were in the end days an amalgam of a number of tribes that had been whittled down to some say no more than 300 souls by 1720.

I'm hoping to chase down some documentation this week that a friend told me exists in the archives in Richmond about a group of chiefs from or around Fort Christanna who informed the Governor of Virginia that they were banding together for strength and that they called themselves the Blackfoot. Wish me luck. If I can nail that down, I think that will pretty much do just that -- nail it down.

[HowardU97]

Crystal,
Some of the surnames for the Haliwa-Saponi are:
Richardson, Lynch, Silver (Sylver, Sylva), Green, Mills (but some of the Mills are Cherokee), and Hedgepeth.

[techteach]

Linda:
I agree with your comment on the likelihood of the possible tie-in of the Shawnees similar to the Cherokees. I saw enough names on treaties that indicated fluidity between tribes with signatures like "Shawnee Jim" found signed as a Delaware (This is not a true one, just an example of something similar that I saw.), and Tecumseh's mother was Cherokee. The Shawnee were found in areas like PA, Tennesee, South Carolina, as well as Ohio. They traveled a lot and were often used as buffers between warring tribes. My ggggrandmother who is known as Blackfoot came from Beaver County, PA, married my Irish ggggrandfather and emigrated with him and their many children to NE Iowa, with at least some children claiming both parents as Scotch-Irish immigrants. Her children married into Shawnee families who originated in Shepherdstown, West Virginia, moved to Licking County, Ohio and then to NE Iowa, passing as white. Same story as many others in this forum.
And, the article I cannot lay my hands on was not recent enough to be yours, Linda. Not unless you were around in the early 1900's. I remember an abstract, bibliography, and a line about "Eastern Blackfoot" that relates to Shawnee. Considering that Black Hoof lived to be over 100 and supposed to have remembered bathing in the ocean, I think your comment about the mixture of tribes likely. My names are McLane (PA), Green, Huston, Potter, and Sinkey (Ohio). There are others, but these are the ones that have turned up native. My gggrandmother (Potter) really looks native. She wore her black hair in braids and was known for natural methods for healing people, as well as baking wonderful bread.

[maria]

Thanks Brenda for the list of surnames. I am new to this list. I am a Reference Librarian in SC, but my family originated from Virginia and North Carolina. Our family surnames are Coleman, Cunningham, Phelps, Mason, and Jones. As my family story has been told there was only one person who was a slave during the Civil War and that was Scott Coleman, my grandmother's grandfather on her father's side. All of the other ancestors on both sides were listed as mulatto on the census records back to 1840. My family resided or settled near South Boston, Virginia and moved back and forth to Caswell County, North Carolina. I knew that we are from a tri-racial community, but I had never heard of the Saponi until I stumbled on this website while assisting another patron. I hope to learn more about the boundaries of this tribe to see if we are connected to the Blackfoot or Cherokee. Thanks again. Maria

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Marie,

You are very welcome. and I would like to welcome you to the forum. This is more than just a bullitin Board; it's a family. We have some great people here and most are very knowledgable and helpful. Don't forget to check out the search feature.

[Linda]

Jones can be a Saponi or Meherrin name. Coleman is a name found among Indian families in the southeast.

Make sure you connect with Saponi 1, she's got family from Danville.

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

The following excerpts are from Jack Goins book, Melungeons: and Other Pioneer Families, which he has kindly granted me permission to enter here. If you would like additional information or to purchase your own copy of his excellent research, please contact him at: jgoins@usit.net

Identifying the forefathers of the Tennessee Melungeons, then backtracking the ones who arrived at Blackwater in 1790 to the New River, to the Flat River, and back to their homeland on the Pamunkey River in Virginia should convince most adversaries the Melungeon Indian claims were true. … (Calloway Collins) told the reporter Allen Dromgoole in 1890 that … his clan was known as the Ben Tribe, and they, the Collins and Gibsons, had stolen those names from white settlers in Virginia where they were living as Indians, before migrating to North Carolina. …The Melungeons believe themselves to be of Cherokee and Portuguese extraction.
pp. 37

[Linda]

I wonder what that "Ben Tribe" is supposed to mean?

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Linda,

As far as I can tell when they split up and moved into the Tennessee and SW Virginia area they stole the names of Collins & Shephard. I believe Collins originated from the John Collins who was commissioner of Indian Affairs (late 1600's through time of Fort Christianna)He was also used as an interperer. My thoughts are that he probably had a Saponi wife and they had John Collins Jr...the Saponi arrested for hog stealing and the beginning of our "Collins" line. They got kicked out of Orange co. Va and crossed the border and settled along the Flatt River.

There was one they called Benjamin Collins...thus Ben's tribe.
Also one named Solomon...Sol's tribe

Forest: Calm down ... I know I don't have any proof and it erritates you to have something written down w/o the documentation but sometimes it just isn't there.

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

http://www.geocities.com/ourmelungeons/history.html


Many of these sons and daughters of the people who became known in history as the Melungeons lost their identity through intermarriages with their white neighbors and the job of finding and locating these families can only be done through family genealogy. Some of these may have mixed with Indian tribes and lived among them. The main body of the ones who became known as Melungeons and carrying Melungeon traits fall into a basic family name grouping which includes Boulden, also spelled Bowlin, Bolen, Bowling, and Bolton, Bunch, Collins, also Collens and Colins, Fields, Gibson, Gipson, Goins also spelled Goen, Goan, Going, Minor, Mullins, Williams, Nichols. Of course by reason of several generations of intermarriage with neighboring white settlers, many other names are blood related to the Historical Melungeons.

[Linda]

Are those the only names associates with Melungeons, or are they from one of the Melungeon communities. I ask because ALL of those names are core Saponi names.

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Linda,

The core names are the first Melungeon surnames that show up in Hawkins County Tennessee area, however according to Calliway Collins, descended from Old Vardy Collins, the Collins,Bowlings,and Gipson's "were living in Virginia as friendly Indians" before comming to Newman's Ridge. He said the Vardy Collins and Buck Shephard had stole the Collins name from the settlers in Virginia.

I have been trying to find out more on the Commissioner of Indian Affairs in the late 1600 to early 1700 by the name of JOHN COLLINS. I ask Forest about this. This John Collins was also used as an interputer. Do you remember sending me a package of material quiet some time ago. A lot of communications between Spottswood and England concerning the Colonies and Trading Company? I found this John Collins has signed many of those documents as a witness. I ask Forest if this John Collins could have been Saponi. He said probably not as Indians durning that time period didn't hold such office. It was possible he was married to a Saponi woman.

The John Collins in the 1742 court trial then COULD have been the commissioner and Saponi woman's son ....John Collins. This could be where the Collins name came into play. NOW....if I could prove this!

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Linda,

I found this in my many notes. Will Allen Dromgoole was a WOMAN who went to Newman's Ridge and lived among them while writting a book. She wrote two or three the Four Branches being,I believe, her last. In one of her books she wasn't so kind with her words of the Melungeons and many took offence. For the entire articel I have provided the link below.

http://www.geocities.com/ourmelungeons/meltree.html

Somewhere in the eighteenth century, before the year 1797, there appeared in the eastern portion of Tennessee, at that time the Territory of North Carolina, two strange-looking men calling themselves "Collins" and "Gibson". They had a reddish brown complexion, long , straight , black hair, keen, black eyes, and sharp, clear-cut features. They spoke in broken English, a dialect distinct from anything ever heard in that section of the country.
They claimed to have come from Virginia and many years after emigrating, themselves told the story of their past.

These two, Vardy Collins and Buck Gibson, were the head and source of the Melungeons in Tennessee. With the cunning of their Cherokee Ancaster, they planned and executed a scheme by which they were enabled to "set up for themselves" in the almost unbroken Territory of North Carolina.

Old Buck, as he was called, was disguised by a wash of some dark description, and taken to Virginia by Vardy where he was sold as a slave. He was a magnificent specimen of physical strength, and brought a fine price, a wagon and mules, a lot of goods, and three hundred dollars in money being paid to old Vardy for his "likely n-----". Once out of Richmond, Vardy turned his mules shoes and stuck out for the wilderness of North Carolina, as previously planned. Buck lost little time ridding himself of his Negro disguise, swore he was not the man bought of Collins , and followed in the wake of his fellow thief to the Territory.

The proceeds of the sale were divided and each chose his habitation; old Vardy choosing Newman's Ridge, where he was soon joined by others of his race, and so the Melungeons became a part of the inhabitants of Tennessee.

This story I know is true. There are reliable parties still living who received it from old Vardy himself, who came here as young men and lived, as the Melungeons generally did to a ripe old age.

The names "Collins" and "Gibson" were also stolen from the white settlers in Virginia where the men had lived previous to emigrating to North Carolina.

[Hana]

Originally posted by Linda


I'm hoping to chase down some documentation this week that a friend told me exists in the archives in Richmond about a group of chiefs from or around Fort Christanna who informed the Governor of Virginia that they were banding together for strength and that they called themselves the Blackfoot. Wish me luck. If I can nail that down, I think that will pretty much do just that -- nail it down.

Wondering if you ever found this, and put it on some other thread?

----------------

We have half dozen surnames from the Melungeon list but they aren't the core ones, and may just be their because they are common old Anglo settler names (Jackson, Moore, Cooper, Byrd, Reeves, others).

And we have both a Blackfoot story and Cherokee. (we originate from VA/NC.) lol So, now what? Sheesh, we're practically generic!

[lynellarainhawk]

Linda and Hana,

Wow! I'm glad Hana brought this back up. I probably would have never come across it if she hadn't. There is a lot of really fascinating information here. I too identify with a couple of names on Brenda's list. And I too have that oral tradition of Blackfoot/Cherokee. Generic! Wow, I never thought of that.....Hm-m-m-m-! So, Linda did you ever find that? Or like Hana said, post it somewhere else. I love it when everyone puts there heads together on here and comes up with so much info. that leads to even more questions to be answered. This is great!

Thank You Hana! Lynella.:)

[Linda]

No, I haven't found it. Looking for it has caused me to read a lot of original source material and that's a good thing, but I haven't found it. The person who says he remembers seeing it clear as day did a lot of research in colonial archives in England, so that may be where we have to look. One of the things I'd like to see us do if we can ever get a 501 3-c organization going, is to go looking for a grant that will send a likely young scholar over the pond to research any materials pertaining to our people that we don't have over here.

Anybody here know about the paperwork for 501-3c's? I hear it's daunting.

Brenda, I love that TN Melungeon story. I assume there's plenty of evidence that this story pre-dates the movie, "Skin Game."

[lynellarainhawk]

Linda,

Hey, on that 501 3-c, maybe I can start checking on that this afternoon. That's a wonderful idea, by the way.

I don't think I've heard of that movie Skin Game. What's that? I never thought that checking into my mother's family would get me in touch with so many wonderful people or get me involved in such an important task, but I love this and I am so glad to be here. Love & Light, lynella.;)

[Linda]

By all means, if you can take a look at the 501 3c process, it would be a great help.

James Garner and Lou Gossett, Jr played a couple of antebellum con artists. Lou would play the dumb step and fetch it guy and Garner would pretend he was a preacher or schoolteacher facing hard times, forced to sell the faithful family servant. After the sale, he'd help Lou to escape. One method was to return to the buyer, tell him he needed to check to see if Lou had come down with leprosy from their missionary days, something like that. Then he'd buy Lou back for a song. Then they'd go on to repeat the performance elsewhere.

[Dan Akin]

Brenda; I wanted to get back with you on this Melungeon topic.
Family researchers have now connected my 5th greatgrandfather, Benjamin Green, to the border of Hawkins and Hancock counties in Tenn.
Here is an example of what we have found;
Hawkins Co., Tn. Deed Book 3 page 95, Daniel Jones to Millenton Collins, Registered 1 April 1803.
20 dec. 1802 Daniel Jones of Henry Co. Ky., to Millenton Collins of Hawlins Co., Tn. $50.00, 60 acres more or less, north side of Copper Ridge in Mud Camp Valley; adj. Benj. Rice, Daniel Jones, BENJ. GREEN, Richard Turner, Joseph Bartlett, and Moses Johnson. Wit; John Thompson; Daniel McCoy.
Hawkins County, Tn. Microfilm, Roll 34, Tenn. State Library and Archives.
We have a deed for Benj. Green and his neighbor was Micajah Bunch.
There is also a deed for Richard Green, whom we suspect is my Ben's uncle, located at the mouth of Blackwater Creek.
We also have located a Sizemore Cemetery at the foot of Copper Ridge. This area is located about four miles southeast of Newman's Ridge and across the Clinch River. It is on Mill Creek just up stream from the old location of Wallen's Mill.
Are you familiar with all of this? Do you know if these first Sizemores of Sizemore's Valley and Cemetery were Edward and George?
Dan.

[lynellarainhawk]

Linda,

You know, I may have seen that movie a long time ago. I have been checking on the 501 3c. I'm wondering if I should move this particular conversation to another location on the forum.....Well, it is a daunting process, but I don't think it's too far out of reach if we apply ourselves. I think, we want to become a corporation first, following the rules for getting a 501 3c. Then i think it would be do-able. Tell me where we should actually set up this conversation because I don't like to interupt these other conversations. Espescially when the get so exciting and interesting. :) Lynella.

[Hana]

Originally posted by Dan Akin
Brenda; I wanted to get back with you on this Melungeon topic.
Family researchers have now connected my 5th greatgrandfather, Benjamin Green, to the border of Hawkins and Hancock counties in Tenn.
Here is an example of what we have found;
Hawkins Co., Tn. Deed Book 3 page 95, Daniel Jones to Millenton Collins, Registered 1 April 1803.
20 dec. 1802 Daniel Jones of Henry Co. Ky., to Millenton Collins of Hawlins Co., Tn. $50.00, 60 acres more or less, north side of Copper Ridge in Mud Camp Valley; adj. Benj. Rice, Daniel Jones, BENJ. GREEN, Richard Turner, Joseph Bartlett, and Moses Johnson. Wit; John Thompson; Daniel McCoy.
Hawkins County, Tn. Microfilm, Roll 34, Tenn. State Library and Archives.
We have a deed for Benj. Green and his neighbor was Micajah Bunch.


Huh! I've been trying my darnedest to trace a David G. Gregory, who is supposed to have been born in Hawkins Co. TN, about 1809. (One possibility -- Robert Gregory & Rachel Ross of Greene Co as parents.)

Meanwhile, other relatives are tracking Turners, I keep hearing Green mentioned as a probable family surname, and recently had a Bunch turn up (got to go dig up which one.) Hmm....

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Dan, I am so excited that you have pinpointed your family to this area. I have always wondered about this Millenton Collins. Who he was and who he married. I have seen his name many times and wondered if Millenton and Meredith could have been the same person?? In early military records and tax records of Wilkes Co. NC I found Meredith spelled many different ways. Even later records when he lived on the farm at Shelby Creek in Pike Co. Kentucky most record keepers slaudered his name. I do know that he appeared on records in Russell Co. Va. from 1799-1809 living on Copper Creek. That Copper Creek area must cover a large area. ( Va/TN/KY )

If you cross over into Wallen Ridge I found my Roark & Brock families. My g-g-grandpa John W. Collins ( s/oMeredith) married 1) a woman by the name of Lydia Toner/Stoner 1821 Grainger Co. TN This married is recorded with GRIFFIN Collins as the bondsman and I have always wondered if Griffin and Meredith were brothers. 2) John W. married Mary Roark d/o John Roark and Nancy Sloan. Nancy Sloan was the d/o Thomas Sloan and Bartheia Brock d/o Jessie Brock and Rebecca Howard. All of these names somehow hook up with the Sizemore families but I have no Sizemore ancestors that I am aware of.

BTW: Jessie Brock is suppose to be the son of Aaron Brock aka "Chief Redbird" . Researchers are still trying to document this.

[Barbara Jansen]

Hello Brenda and Everyone,

I am glad to meet all of you. I have just joined and finished reading all of the post in this thread.

I really got started looking into my family history because I always heard that I had Indian blood and was told that it was told down the generation that one of my ancestors claimed to be full blooded "Portygee Indian". Well I set out to find out what the heck a "Portigee Indian" was. The Ancestor that was supose to have said that was Zachariah Minor. Well of course that put me on the Melungeon trail.

I purchased the book by Pat Spurlock Elder and started reading it. It has a lot of info in it that I would have never gotton through if I wasn't determined to find the answer to my question. In the mean time I also purchased Lou Minor's book, " The Blacksmiths of Blackwater" and also the earlier mentoined book by Jack H Goins, "Melungeons and Other Pioneer Families", both of which I finished reading and were very informative before I could get through the first book.

Well I finally finished the Pat Spurlock Elder book this evening. The whole book had many possible theories about where the Melungeons could have come from, she was very thorough in her research, but the last chapter which was actually an update from her original printing is what got me to make a search and lead me here. She sited a work of C S Everett . He proposed the possibility that people from a Colonial-era Potuskite tribe(a non-Cristianized branch of the Nansemond Indians) sometimes spelled Potuskey, could have misunderstood as "Portygee" and he said that the Goins-Minor clan once lived in Nansemond territory during INdian times.

Now for some reason that made more sense to me than all of the other theories in the book. Has anyone hard of the Potuskite Tribe?

Barb

[Linda]

Crystal needs to see your information. She's from the "Portugeuse Settlment" in Northampton County, NC, one county over from Brunswick County, VA, the last known location of the tribal Saponi amalgam of Siouan tribes. She knows some of her family ties to the Nansemond. That settlement is very well documented as Indian, I know of historians who have tried to prove the authenticity of other groups by tying them to that one. What you're saying about the origin of the word is very interesting and makes good sense.

[rosebudsaponi]

There was also another tribe located in the old Granville Co area of North Carolina during the mid-late 1600's that were called the Portee Indians. There was some legislature that ocurred that involved them. I'll have to dig out the NC papers to see exactly what that was. The interesting thing is that in Granville Co, we also have 2 Poythress men that changed their name to Speight. It was during the early 1700's.

What names besides Minor do you have in your line and what counties are you dealing with. This is the first that I have heard of the Non Christianized Nansemond being called Potuskey or any other name. The "non christianized" were no longer documented as a tribe after the split from the main tribe. They were absorbed into various other tribes and no more documentation exists on them.

One theory for the Portuguese title is coming through the Poythress line in that numerous enumerators couldn't spell Poythress, let alone say it correctly so it sprang as an offshoot of Poythress.

Do you have documentation regarding the "Portuguese" title or is it just family linked.

I do have the NC Legislative papers that passed in 1921/23 to designate my group as Portuguese. Prior to that, we were all FPC, Mulatto, Colored, Black. I do know that some of the settlements in WVA were known as Portuguese as well.

Once I can get a list of surnames and counties, I can tell you which way to head in this. Don't hold stock into the fact that there were tribes that have "Similar" names as Portuguese. This designation didn't occur until much later and there is no proof of anything regarding the non-christianized Nansemond. Unfortunate for us, they melt into the other settlements.

Nansemond Territory is pretty much unchanged since the first documentation of them. Southside in Suffolk VA. They didn't wander too much.

Look forward to hearing your lines,

[Barbara Jansen]

My original information about Zacharariah Minor claiming to be "Full blooded Portagee Indian" is just work of mouth as far as I know.

What information I have about Zachariah and his Father Hesekiah Minor came from Lou Minor's book and some from Jack Goins book. Hezekiah was thought to have been born in Halifax County, VA about 1765-75. He married Elizabeth Going(sometimes spelled Goin)(married in Henry County VA, 1795)( born about 1776 also Halifax county. In 1810 they were in Rockingham County NC. Sometime between 1810 qnd 1814 they moved to Lee County VA. By 1824 he moved to Hawkins(now Hancock) County TN.

These people are hard to keep up with.:rolleyes:

Now Zachariah, Hesekiah's second child born in 1801 in Rockingham County NC. He married Aggie Sizemore(d. of George Sizemore and Lydia HageySizemore) in Hawkins County TN in 1824. Zachariah was "Free Colored " in 1830 Hawkins County Census.

I don't know if any of that tells you anything. There is a statement in Lou Minor's book that states that it was handed down that Zachariah told his children that his parants had come from Virginia via Rockingham County, NC, then Wythe Couty, Grayson County, TN and then back through Knoxville to Hawkins County, TN.

Thanks for the replies.


:) :)

Barb

[rosebudsaponi]

Portagee – Eastern U.S., a person of Portuguese origin --http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-ethnic-slurs#wp-P


Unfortantely, this terminology has taken on more than what it was originally meant for. In the case of my settlement, it was used as a race designation that differed from Black and White. It became a legal designation which at that point, allowed them to vote and attain education for their children. Today, it is meant just as the term "Melungeon", too vague to say either way. If only the Guineas of West VA could have that put on their birth certificates, maybe it would save alot of headaches for people chasing their tails.

You are in the right area for the Goins and the Sizemores. I, too, have Goins. So does Emma. I'm sure she'll speak up here in a day or so to give you or question you more on your Goins line. The Goins, however, never claimed Portuguese. I have only 1 marriage of Goin into our settlement and that was a female so the name stopped there. The "Portuguese Settlement" has the surnames of Peters, Poythress, Turners, Bass, Scotts, Jarrell, Mitchell, Garner and Newsome. All carried the race as FPC, Mulatto, Colored, Black then to Portuguese. My sister and myself are the first generation in my line to be classified as white.

Another quick clue for you is the spelling. Although elsewhere, anyone of Portuguese descent spell it Portagee but for the "mixed bloods" that adapted that designation, it was always spelled Portuguese. ;)

Minor, Emma can tell you more on that name. I know it is one that originates in the piedmont of VA and is a prominant FPC name. Does anyone remember if Minor is on Pleckers list? It's one that Emma and I have touched on numerous times. Not one that plays into the trade though.

Good luck!!!

[lynellarainhawk]

Crystal,

Thank you so very much for your reply here.:) I really appreciate it. You answered some questions I had, and you did it very tactfully and that shows a lot of integrity, which is something you can be very proud of. I have Pleckler's list, so I'll check it right now and get back to you before I hit the sack. Love & Light, Lynella.

[lynellarainhawk]

Crystal,

:) Minor and no other spelling of it is on there. I went through the list 3 times just to make sure. There are a good bit of familiar names on there, but not that one. Love & Light, Lynella.

[Barbara Jansen]

I didn't think that Minor was on that list but thanks for looking.

Barb

[brazshell]

HI
im new here and have been researching the Driggers family from pike co alabama and coffee co alabama.
i was wonderring if any one had hear of these names.

i have a isaac driggers who i think married a rodgers heard she was indian i belive they had a son named bennette driggers who married charity philpot they had two daughters one was drucilla driggers who married darling carter sr. they had about 10 kids and one was louisa carter married joseph hamilton stewart they had a son named joesph dinkins stewart sr my great grand father and they had im thinking 10 or so kids one was my grand father joseph dinkins stewart jr who died in atmore alabama. joseph sr marred a holmes i think. my grand father married a etta rogers.
any of this look familair to u?
p.s
some of the nmes my be wrong there are a lot of issac driggers shelly:)

[anitabingamon]

I have several Melungeon surnames in my family tree, although I am not sure if I am Melungeon or not (but it seems to explain things for me). I have:

Allen
Boone
Brown
Gibson
Hall
Harris/Harrison = 2 branches
Jones
Moseley/Mosely/Mosley
Nelson
Newman
Polly
Russell/Bussell
Stewart
Taylor
Wright = 3 branches

These names are from direct line ancestors. I also wonder about the surname of Bryant, also since my Bryants go back to a Bryant woman married/living with a Polly man (the best I understand)

Anita B. aka Sparrow

[miz313]

does anyone know if Robersons of Melungeon ancestry were living in a certain part of Virginia or all over? Was their any Tolers/Toller/Towlers among those surnames

[Shana]

I have also run across some interesting history to supplement your's. It seems that many of those folks related to those indian/portuguese actually descended from Russian Jews back in the Boyar times, so in essence are byorigin, Sephardic or Ashkenazi Jews back in the 500-1000 ad period. Briefly, what happened was that these ""Anousim" were jews made to convert by pain of death to Catholicism and were eventually deported to to Portugal and France by Ferdinand and Isabella, and eventually were further deported to places like NorthAmerica and New France [Canada] where they intermarried with many of the Indians, including Miqmak, Delaware, etc, and ultimately, after admixture, followed the historic paths of the Acadians, and possibly, even the Praying Indians of the 1700s. My own DNA and autosomal results bear this out to me, yet they arejust beginning to research these connections to the extent I propose. Kind Regards, Shana Williams [maternal last name:London] from Western North Carolina
Melungeon=Portuguese (Caucasian)/Amerindian hybrid, probably first
appearing in the New World 50 years before the arrival of the English at
Jamestown, VA.

According to journals recorded by the first exployers sent out of Jamestown to explore the lands to the south the men came upon a group of people living among friendly Indians in log cabins and speaking a broken Elizabethan English. The people wore black clothing and the men had long beards. At a certain time of the day a bell would toll and the people would stop whatever they were doing and bough in prayer. These people identified themselves as Portagee. (source: Brent Kennedy said he found the info in the archives of NC)

NOTE: If this is correct, and I believe it was, then the people that landed at Jamestown was not the first settlers to reach the colonies as the textbooks so state.

ADAMS ADKINS ALLEN ALLMOND ASHWORTH *

BARKER BARNES BASS BECKLER BELCHER BEDGOOD BELL
BENNETT BERRY BEVERLY
BIGGS BOLEN BOLLING BOLTON BOONE BOWLIN
BOWLING BOWMAN BRADBY BRANHAM BRAVBOY
BRIGER/BRIDGER BROGAN BROOKS
BROWN BUNCH BULLION BURTON BUTLER BUTTERS
BUXTON BYRD *

CAMPBELL CARRICO CARTER CASTEEL CAUDILL CHAPMAN
CHAVIS CLARK CLOUD COAL
COFFEY COLE COLEMAN COLES COLLEY COLLIER COLLINS
COLLINSWORTH COLYER
COOPER CORMAN COUNTS COX COXE CRIEL CROSTON
CROW CUMBA CUMBO CUMBOW
CURRY CUSTALOW *

DALTON DARE DAVIS DENHAM DENNIS DIAL DOOLEY
DORTON DOYLE DRIGGERS DULA
DYE DYESS *

ELY EPPS EVANS *

FIELDS FREEMAN FRENCH *

GALLAGHER GANN GARLAND GIBSON GIPSON GOINS
GOINGS GORVENS GOWAN GOWEN
GRAHAM GREEN(E) GWINN *

HALL HAMMON(D) HARMON HARRIS HARVIE HARVEY
HAWKES HENDRICKS HENDRIX
HILL HILLMAN HOGGE HOLMES HOPKINS HOWE
HYATT *

JACKSON JAMES JOHNSON JONES *

KEITH(E) KENNEDY KISER *

LANGSTON LASIE LAWSON LOCKLEAR LOPES LOWRY LUCAS
*

MADDOX MAGGARD MAJOR MALE MALONE(Y) MARSH
MARTIN MAYLE MINARD MINER
MINOR MIZER MOORE MORLEY MOSELY
MOZINGO MULLINS *

NASH NELSON NEWMAN NICCANS NICHOLS NOEL NORRIS *

ORR OSBORN OSBORNE OXENDINE *

PAGE PAINE PATTERSON PERKINS PERRY PHELPS PHIPPS
PRINDER POLLY POWELL
POWERS PRITCHARD PRUITT *

RAMEY RASNICK REAVES REVELS REEVES RICE
RICHARDSON RIDDLE RIVERS
ROBERSON ROBERTSON ROBINSON RUSSELL *

SAMMONS SAMPSON SAWYER SCOTT SEXTON SHAVIS
SHEPHARD SHEPHERD SHORT
SHORTT SIZEMORE SMILING SMITH STALLARD STANLEY
STEEL STEVENS STEWART
STROTHER SWEATT SWETT SWINDALL *

TALLY TACKETT TAYLOR THOMPSON TIPTON TOLLIVER
TUPPANCE TURNER *

VANOVER VICARS VICCARS VICKERS *

WARE WATTS WEAVER WHITE WHITED WILKINS WILLIAMS
WILLIAMSON WILLIS WILSON
WISBY WISE WOOD WRIGHT WYATT WYNN

[Greywolf]

http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html
may be of interest.

[LindyLuu]

Wow, I see quite a few surnames here that are listed in my research, I want to share what was given to me as it pertains to my Mom's real father, a discovery made in 2002. I will post the surnames of my people in my profile or here if appropiate.

I discovered my Mom's real father was a prominent judge in Annapolis, Maryland, Robert MOSS. This is just a portion of the MOSS history. There are other manuals which add to the rich hisotry of this family. The manual is unquie in its own handwritten format by the judge's son. Like I said there's more to the MOSS but I am sadden that ethnicity barriers will probably keep me from finding out about my Mom's real paternal family history unless someone comes forth. Mom will be 91 this August...

According to the manual, Richard MOSSE died in the 1st Indian Massacre in Virginia, March 22, 1622, one of 347 white settlers during this event. I believe he landed in Jamestown, VA, widowed with children and the intent to find a second wife in the new World. It's been a while since I've looked at the info, but one name sticks out and that is "Inez Natividad Zaragoza," wife of Robert Graham MOSS, son of Robert MOSS (Mom's real Dad) and Maggie Agusta BOONE-MOSS. Inez was the daughter of Miguel M. Zaragoza, son of Miguel D. Zaragoza. It looks like they were from Texas (can't make small handwriting out). Anyway, I have lots of questions running through my head...it takes some time reading through the handwritten manual. After reading your piece, I have even more questions.

[Rick]

I see the name Ely on this list. The Indian background in my family comes from my ggGrandmother, Elisabeth Ely. I know her mothers side was where it was supposed to come from. Her gGrandfather, Peter, born in the 1760's probably in Pennsylvania showed up on no official records. Unofficial info was from when he was married in 1787. He lived in the Lancaster/Lebanon/Dauphin county area for awhile, some of his children were born in that area. Do Pennsylvania Elys show up in any documented info that anyone has? I assumed they were Pa.Dutch/German. The family story is there was Black Dutch in Elisabeths background. Maybe this explains it. Thanks for any info available.

[Barbara Adair Bauer]

This is probably a different Ely family (they think they're English, not German), but who knows?

http://bow1.tripod.com/ely/Ely_Family.pdf

They seem to think these Elys lived at least for a while in Pennsylvania. The family had some interaction with my ggggGrandfather James Adair/Addair in Montgomery County, Virginia, in 1789, when he appeared to be helping Jane Ely apply for land. Later these Elys ended up in Lee County, Va. My family said the Adairs were part Indian (they said Cherokee, but...).

[LindyLuu]

This is probably a different Ely family (they think they're English, not German), but who knows?

http://bow1.tripod.com/ely/Ely_Family.pdf

...my ggggGrandfather James Adair/Addair in Montgomery County...).

Barbara...

What part of Montgomery County? Sandy Spring?

[Rick]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure they were of German background. Just my guess as that area was settled by a lot of German background people. Many changed the spelling of their name to the english, Ely or Eley. There were English back ground Elys too though. I had never heard of the Ely name associated with anything but a German or English decent before. This same Peter Ely has been associated with western Pa. and Ohio, so he either really got around or there is a lot of crossed up information. Again, thanks, I figured it was worth the inquiry.

[Barbara Adair Bauer]

Jane Ely's land was on the east side of the New River, above the mouth of Spruce Run. That would be Giles County now, near Eggleston. James Adair ran a ferry across the New River at that time, across from where Radford is now.

I just notice another ggggGrandfather of mine, Adam Johnston, witnessed the deed when Jane Ely sold her land in 1796. He's Irish, and immigrated to Pennsylvania sometime between 1785 and 1790. He was in Virginia by 1796.

There appears to be a Methodist connection - James Adair has connections to Edward Morgan, an early Methodist preacher in the area, and to Alexander Page, who donated land for the first Methodist church in the area. Abram Morgan (I don't know if there's a connection) was also involved in Jane Ely's land transaction, and Edward and John Stafford, also witnesses when she sold her land, and brothers-in-law of Adam Johnston, were noted in a Methodist history as early converts of Edward Morgan's.

For what it's worth, Mary B. Kegley, the historian and genealogist who wrote the "Early Adventurers on Western Waters" series on this area, also wrote a book of historical fiction, "Free in Chains," about a real Indian slave, Rachel Findlay, who sued for her freedom and got it in 1820. Edward Morgan, the Methodist minister, is a minor character in the book, and it is mentioned that his congregation included two slaves around 1782. I think that part is probably not fictional. So this may have been a community open to mixed race people.

Where is Sandy Spring?

[Forest]

The Findley case is an actual case, a freedom suit based on Indian ancestry. Choctaw, if I recall, but I don't remember the Virginia counties the cases were tried in. As I recall, it involved numerous descendants.

[Barbara Adair Bauer]

Yes, I think Kegley was pretty true to her sources, the court records. It's only fiction because she made it into a story and made up conversations, etc. to make a novel.

Kegley cites records from Wythe County, Henry County, Powhatan County, Chesterfield County, Montgomery County and Giles County, Virginia, and Madison County Alabama. She says Rachel Findley's family was Catawba.

[Forest]

Yep, it's Choctaw. At least according to some of the court testimony. Two Choctaw children were brought to Va. as slaves.

Sadly, only the descendants of the female child were eligible to sue for freedom....

[ripley052]

In Mason County records for 1867, I noted the names Hosea Forrest, Silas Forrest, and heirs of Wm. Forrest in a road surveyors report for the Arbuckle area of Mason County WV. Is there any connection surnamewise?

I am researching a Civil War mystery regarding my ancestor Enoch Jeffers/Jeffries who dies under questionable circumstances in Mason Co. WV in 1863.

[debmalinak]

I am looking for ANY info or help that I can find on my Collins link. I am connected via Robert Collins son of Amos Collins around the Clay County ky area. He was married a couple of times ( I am sure of ) His wife that was listed in the 1870/1880 census was Mary A (Parsons) Collins I found this out by looking at the death certificates of her children Parsons was listed as her maiden name on 2 of the 3 children .Her daughter Martha Collins Married to Bill Stacy was my Great grandmother. I can not find any info on Mary Parsons collins. Please help with this if you have any info at all on Robert and Mary. It has Mary listed as having her first son Ulysse in 1869 she was to have been born around 1830 . This would have made her 39 when she had her first child???? Seems a little odd I think she may have had a previous family somewhere.