plants and animals

[itconani]

hoping to start a good discussion and resources collection for sources for local botanicals, trips to gather materials, and vehicles for trade of all above.

to start -
im looking for a good source for "pucoon".
ill get the latin later. anybody know what it is or knows a good patch for this spring?

It grows about 3 ft high, cone flower like a daisy - root is POTENT. used for red dye, alot on bodies, and hair, leather.

Also -
ilex vomitoria (yaupon holly)
looking for young shoots, and small plants to transplant. old source for "black drink" and colonial "mate'" coffee. northern span is va beach.

One more -
Im plnting one of my fields in indian corn again this year. this is an old strain. its been passed down for at least four generations of Carolina Saponis (no kidding). i plan to use the stalk for thatch / mat making - but anyone want some seed from this years crop?
industrious folk could make meal if they wanted - but thats WORK.

Although i do have a good supply for next years white acorn gathering? Dozen mature whiteoaks waiting for gathering? makes a good but "bran" like flour after processing. good with berries for muffins or pone.

[collins]

For some good resource pictures go to http://www.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/fa01/fa01027.jpg
Another good one is http://www.ibiblio.org/unc-biology/herbarium/gallery/conopholis.html

[collins]

Puccoon - any of several North American plants of the genus Lithospermum yielding a red or yellow dye (esp. L. canescens and L. caroliniense)having orange flowers.
Also known as BloodRoot, redroot, Red Indian Paint, Tetterwort; called Sanguinaria canadensis Papaveraceae
This we mixed with Walnut Oil or Bear grease.

Sweet Grass (Hierochloe odorata) this can be purchased in your area if your in North Carolina. I have a contact there that sales clumps of it. I'll have to dig for the address and name of the nursury. I mainly put that in because it took some digging to find out more about Sweet Grass since there are so many names it goes by. Many Nursuries do not carry it nor do they order it, at least in my area here in Texas.

[collins]

Pawpaw wood was used to start fires so we know they had a good relationship with the Pawpaw.

[edstp62]

Hello, If anyone is looking for "the best" sweetgrass I can gather it here, I can trade it to anyone who wants it. I'm not kidding I have been told that many people have not seen this quality in over 20 years, you'll know what's inside the package before you open it.Buck check into the "Museum of the Fur Trades" garden, they are in nebraska I think!?. Ladies my Mother used to use a type of medicine for her blood that I can share with you, I'm sure that it grows down there, if I get there I'll share it with you all, BTA , Tom.

[itconani]

ill check out the museum of fur trade, they may have some stuff to peak at!
sweatgrass trade would be good -
i dont use it as much as others, but still a fresh batch is nice to have. had some from alberta last. we gather sage and sweatgrass each august when we're out west.

Cotton -
im familiar with a variety of the "blood" plants. this one is known as redroot and does produce a red dye. however, it is hard to find. blooms only last for a few weeks in june and then blends back into the greens of the woods. i dont know the plant well enough to id it without both flower and leaf. sooo - i only find small amounts in june. any one know where there is a good patch for transplant?

Anyone interested in indigenous tobacco? i grow a bit of rustica each year.
it is very strong stuff, but is from our area.
i have seed and good growing tips...

[This message has been edited by itconani (edited 01-16-2002).]

[nicosaponi]

Greetings,
Once again I'm floored at what a
wealth of knowledge pertaining to our culture
and heritage so many folks on this forum have,but most of all I'm moved at how generous y'all are in sharing what you know.
For someone like me who is hungry/eager to
learn the ways of my ancestors this is truly
a blessing.I'm just sorry I don't have half
as much to offer.
Maybe those of you who have
sweetgrasss,tabacco etc, can bring a bit of it in febuary.I'd be willing to pay for it
since I do not have anything to trade.

In Blood
Nicole


------------------


[This message has been edited by nicosaponi (edited 01-17-2002).]

[Tom]

Hello All, Re; the sweetgrass that I offer, if I get down there this summer I can bring it with me, but if not I will send via snail mail; I am out currently and will have to gather it prior to my leaving here in the summer.Now is the time to ask for it so that I can put you on a list,email me and send your address,for trade if I am there even a hand shake is good enough! Best to All, Tom.

[itconani]

tom -
interested in trading materials via snail mail. your email is not listed on your profile. send some data to my email (little icon with mail moving next to posting date and time) best -buck

[Tom]

Buck, I have sent my snail mail adress to you again if you do not get it, email me from your end and I'll send it to you. Tom

[Tom]

Buck, I have sent my snail mail adress to you again if you do not get it, email me from your end and I'll send it to you. Tom

[collins]

Tom my e-mail address is saponi12@earthlink.net
please e-mail me and so I can send you my address. I would love to buy some sweetgrass from you. Bila huk oho! (CottonTop)

[collins]

itconani I would also be interested in your sweetgrass as well. edstp62 I would love to get some native tobacco seed from you. If both of you could e-mail me at saponi12@earthlink.net
i will send you my address. once i get yours then i can send you some money for those things. Bila huk oho! (Cotton Top)

[collins]

Mecou, in regard to animals that are in our ancestors area of influence I believe the Red Wolf to have been the wolf they would have known well. The crane holds a special place as well as the Red Tailed Hawk, the Owl, the Crow/Blackbird/Raven, the black bear, the forest buffalo, turtles, ratcoons, possums, frogs,and snakes.

[collins]

Here is a list of books that are good resources for plants and animals.
The Southeastern Indians by Charles Hudson (pgs.272-289) pg.(300)

The Siouan Tribes of the East by James Mooney
pg.(29) pg.(31-34)

[collins]

I have a question or two. Do porcupines exist in our historic ranges of settlement back East? Did the porcupine every inhabit the Saponi or other Southeastern Siouan areas? And finally is it possible that porcupine quils may have been traded to the Saponi and other Southeastern Siouan Indians?

[edstp62]

test

[edstp62]

Sorry this time "it"didn't accept Tom. Cotton top for a map of the porcupines range check julia bebbingtons book on porcupine quillwork, probably quills were traded into the southeast, there is good evidence of that if not then the finished products certainly were.There was a man named Sloane that collected several items from the Cherokees made of quills and buffalo hair. There is a danish painting of cherokee women wearing chockers made like the tump lines of the iroquios etc, look for Farley Mowats "Sea of Slaughter" he
talks about animals ands birds that are no longer around including several that would have not even been known if it were not for just a few bones. For quillwork in the south I'd bet that bird quills from thier feathers were more commonly used than anyhting else. I have heard of a Seminole quilled knife case but have not seen it yet.I have used snowy egret feathers with great success and in the Ozarks there are pieces of cords that were wrapped with feathers in total, down and all, these must have been very beautiful considereing that the Carolina Parkeet was still around. Best to All, Tom

[Eve]

Hi. I saw a reference in one of these posts to yaupon holly. I'm no horticulturist but I live on the Outer Banks of NC and there is a ton of yaupon that grows wild here. We are told that when the first british explorers came the native americans here gave them, among other delicacies, yaupon tea. I don't know if it is a different derivative but will try to do some genuine research on this plant and post again.

[Linda]

Thanks, we'll look forward to that.

[Eve]

I have great info about Yaupon for you! I am going to quote from "Wildflowers of the Outer Banks" published by Univ of NC Press in 1980 and put out by the local Dunes of Dare Garden Club. This is from pg. 104:
Yaupon, Ilex Vomitoria Aiton - Holly
"Shrub or small tree, 5 to 15 feet tall, admired by early colonists...male and female plants have nunmerous root shoots. Bark has thin red-brown scales. Leaves small, evergreen, wavy-edged, oblong, leathery, alternate. Drought and salt resistant. Flowers small, greenish white. Fruit, clear red, provides winter food for birds. Tea brewed from dried leaves contains caffeine. Maritime forests, protected bay areas. ABUNDANT from Duck to Hatteras. March-May, October-November." Hope that is helpful for those who may be nearer Outer Banks than VA. I have a question of my own: I am thinking of doing some painting on deerskin/elk hide, etc. Are there local berries/roots I could use for some of the different colors? I have so much to learn and also am humbled and grateful for all everyone has to share. Aho, Eve

[collins]

A good source of inks would be the berries from Poke weed. You know like poke salad. The berries are very inky and stain well. Pucoon root, yellow and red, are good sources for those colors. Good juicy fresh grass can get a good green stain/paint out of it. Just get a pestal and mortor cut some grass and pound it into a thick paste. After applied then brush off when dried. Various berries are excellent sources for colours and stains. The pollon covered staymins of various flowers can produce extra ordinary colors depending on the flower. Various clays can also produce some good colors and tones.

[itconani]

hey eve thanks for the description.
you live in the area known as the "northern border" for Yaupon. im 250 miles north of you. if you have an opportunity to either collect seed, or take some small saps, we can work out a trade. Their not hard to find, just not easy to get unless you live there. nurserys etc dont carry them as ornamentals. thanks

[Tom]

Hello All, well we have had our last snow fall!? We had about 2 feet and pretty cold.
Now all the trees have budded out and the grass is growing, it's time to think about those sweetgrass braids that I had offered last fall.
When it's ready I'll post how many braids I have and whoever wants some please reply. Keep in mind a return in trade or just postage is fine.
I'll post how many are available in each posting, if I run out between postings so watch for it. Best to all, Tom.

[collins]

Mecou,
Tom I would like to get a braid of sweet grass. Please let me know how to send you money to get one. Thanks
Cotton Top
Also my e-mail is saponi12@earthlink.net
Bila huk oho!

[Eve Turek]

About yaupon: I will definitely find a way to get some for you. I'll be out of town for about a week but will get right on the project when I return, around June 18. If I can get to it before I leave, I'll let you know. Glad to be of help, Eve