Blackfoot in Arkansas? [Archive]

Bess

10-02-2002, 06:28 PM

Reply to Languss
There is a book on the genealogy and history of the Woolard (Wollard, Willard) family published by Janes K. Woolard and Son (900 pg). The address for the publisher is 1930-79 West San Marcos Blvd, San Marcos, Ca. 92069.
He traces the movement of elements of the Woolard family originating in the Northern Neck of Va. (also from Southside Va. and Chowan Co, NC) as they migrated across the county. There is a section on the Woolards who went to Arkansas.
I am interested in the Smith and Wollard families you mention, as their ancestors may relate to some of my Native American ancestors.
This is the background: About 1700 "Indian Bess" Veney was brought to Richmond County Va. and was described as a "free Indian woman ". Over time she and her descendants were enslaved by the family of Thomas Smith and his wife Sarah Woolard. Eventually many of "Indian Bess's" descendants recovered their freedom in suits in the District Court of Northumberland in 1791 and in the Superior Court of Montgomery County in 1815. The Veneys appear in documents in Va, Oh., Ky., etc. under may variations including Vena, Veney, Viney, Vina, Venet. They are of African and Native American ancestry. In Ohio and Kentucky, they are intermarried with lines associated with the Saponi--Dempsey, Guy, Long, Bird, Goings, Pettyford etc. In Virginia, Kentucky and Ohio, some Veneys claim a Blackfoot heritage. Do you know if your Smith and Woolard lines come from Va.? Good luck. Bess.

Linda

10-02-2002, 07:29 PM

I have Smiths in Martinsburg, WV around 1820's. Have you seen anybody in your line in that vicinity? There was a Tuscarora settlement there, it's on the Tuscarora Path. I believe there's still a church called Tuscarora there.

Bess

10-04-2002, 01:10 PM

Yes, there were Veneys in Martinsburg, but at a later date. I will get back with details later. Bess

Bess

10-04-2002, 10:49 PM

Linda,

I have not done much research in this part of VA/WV so I can't answer your question as thoroughly as need be. I have no oral history on the Veneys in this area. All I have is taken from documents.
It is my understanding that Martinsburg is in Berkeley county and Berkeley was formed from Frederick county, Va. about 1772. The earliest Veney (male line) close to Martinsburg that I have seen appears about 1840 in Frederick county. But between 1860-70 more Veneys show up in the records in the town of Martinsburg and in the Opequon district. Tuscarora creek flows Eastward through the town of Martinsburg into Opequon creek which empties into the Potomac river. Below are some references to Veneys pinpointing these two locations

1870 census Martinsburg

335/336 Stewart, Barnett 45MW Hotel clerk WV
, Kate 48FW WV
Marshal, Thos 21MB Hostler "
Davis, Lewis 18MM DRCook "
Queen, James 19MB Hostler "
Veney, Martha 25FM C Maid VA
, Ann 8/12 FM WVA
Tucker, Minnnie 18FM Cook "
, Charles 4 MM "

1870 census Opequon Township

102/105 Veney, Henry 28MM Farm Labor VA
102/106 Veney, John 25MM " "

1880 census Martinsburg
RO12 Woodward, Joseph WM 65 Hotel Mg. VAVAVA
.............................
Vena, Martha MF 33 Servant VAVAVA
Vena, Mary MF 7 WVVAVA
Vena, Homie MF 35 Servant VAVAVA
Marshal, Thomas BM 30 " " "
Roberts, Abram BM 35 " " "
Lucas, William MM 18 " " "
Coates, Edward BM 35 " VAVAVA
Willis, James BM 40 " " "
Queen, James BM 35 " " "
Jennings, Wesley MM 45 " " "
Smith, Charles* BM 28 " " "
Jackson, John BM 22 " " "
Morgan, Hugh BM 18 " " "
Dixon, Samuel BM 18 " ""
Temple, Lucy BF 40 " " "
Twyman, Betsey BF 45 " " "
Twyman, Sarah BF 22 " " "
Melton, Stephen MM23 " " "
Jones, Hester BM 28 " " "
Williams, Edward MM 22 " " "

* This Charles Smith may be the same person who appeared in the 1870 census for Martinsburg as Charles Smith described as a "M", 15 and born in VA.

This line of Veneys descended from Ned Veney who was born ca 1770 in Richmond County, Va.. He was moved by the Smith family to Culpeper County before he regained his freedom. His descendants spread out from Culpeper, Rappahanock and Madison to Page and Shenandoah Counties and from there some went to Berkeley..
Do you know where your Smiths came from before settling in Martinsburg? Bess.

Linda

10-05-2002, 11:02 AM

No, that's the first we hear of them. They married into our Ulm line, which is remarkably well documented, except for this family, of which there is very little mention, adding to my suspicions that the lady was not so white.

Bess

10-10-2002, 11:15 PM

Languss,
Recently, I dug up the Woolard book mentioned above. On page 95, there is material on an AMANDA JANE WOOLARD (b.1842 Wayne Co. Mo.) who married a William Henry Rorie. In 1850, Amanda, her sister and father were living in Stone county, Ar. Her father was Isaac Woolard (b 1818 in Indiana-d 186?) He may have been descended for the Woolards in old Va. or those Woolards from the old Chowan District of N.Carolina. Most likely, this is the Amanda Woolard you are looking for. The author goes on to mention that family tradition says that Amanda Woolard and her sister "were part Blackfoot Indian" (pg.95) The book was published in 1999. Bess.

vance hawkins

10-11-2002, 01:51 PM

A "Rurie" married a "Richey" here in SW Oklahoma -- a great-uncle of mine, Oscar Taylor Richey's first wife. She is buried in the same little country cemetary as my g-grandparents (Jeffry Hoten Richey (b. 1851, Powhatan, Ar, d. 1926 near Manitou, Ok) and Josephine Brown Richey (b. 1854 Lawrence County, Ar, d. 1932 near Manitou,Ok). Some of my great uncles (including my grandparents) were married in the Chickasaw nation, but I don't think Oscar was -- I think he married after statehood in 1907, not sure tho. I know Oscar Richey was born in the Chickasaw Nation in the early 1890s.

Do you know anything else about that "Rorie" surname? Was it ever spelled "Rurie"?
thanks.

Jeffs dad, Joseph Richey, was born in Indiana in 1820s, and his father, John Richey, was born in Va.

vance hawkins

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 10-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 10-11-2002).]

Brenda Collins Dillon

10-11-2002, 06:30 PM

Does anybody in this forum know anything about the word "Manitou"? My first husband was military and we traveled across the states several times. I have seen this name in several states and I use to live in the community of Manitou, in Tacoma ,Washington.
Just curious as to where it came from and if it had any meaning.

------------------
Life is a Rainbow made up of Many Different Colors.....

Tom

10-12-2002, 03:39 PM

Hey all, manitou is an Ojibway /Chippewa word mostly encountered around the Great LAkes but it's also found amongst the northern cree people, so it is probablyfrom several dialects of Algonquian language family.
Manitou is "spirit" Kissee Manitou is Great Spirit or "God"
BTA, Tom.

Bess

10-13-2002, 01:32 PM

I never saw the Rorie surname till a few days ago when I ran across it in the Woolard book mentioned above. Therefore I don't know if "Rorie" and "Rurie" refer to one and the same family. However, I believe that that is most likely the case given the sound correspondence. It turns out that the Rorie name comes up in another family mentioned by you--the Looneys. For more info on the Looney/Rorie connection turn your browser to the Genform site and call up the Rorie Surname. A "Bev Looney" has developed information on her Rorie ancestors and their migration from VA, to NC (Halifax co), TN and Ark.

Here is another tidbit I forgot to mention when I passed on the material in the Woolard book. John Rorie married Martha Malinda Woolard, the sister of Amanda Jane Woolard who married William Rorie. The Blackfoot claim passes through both of these Woolard/Rorie lines.

The Richeys. Several years ago I entered in my files a reference to a "Solomon Richey" described as a "free person of color" who took some legal action in Augusta, County, Va in 1810. Augusta county is located in the Piedmont of Central/Southwest Va. Formerly, Solomon had been enslaved by Andrew Edwards of Berkeley county, WVA who had emancipated him sometime before 1810. Could Solomon Richey be one of your ancestors? Bess.

itconani

10-14-2002, 08:16 AM

in reference to sever4al listings above, the manitou is as was stated "spirit" or "other worldly" there are a variety of stories related to encounters with the manitou in relation to spiritual matters. interestingly, a dialect in virginia refers to the the chiefs of chiefs (who is half god half man) as the manitowick.

the "woolard" surname in old southeastern virginia, but primarily in NE north carolina in counties such as Chowan comes from a variation of woodward or woodard. also seen are woodyard and woodal within the same span of generations. once again the blackfoot id appears as one of several cultural markers originating from the carolina/ virginia piedmont for mixed indian, black, and with ie: the tri racials.

vance hawkins

10-16-2002, 11:09 AM

My father's birth certificate says born: Manitou, Oklahoma, Aug 15, 1915. But in reality he was born on their farm and his grandmother delivered him. That farm was 7 or 8 miles SE of Manitou. It's a little place with a population only of 200 souls, and that's on a busy day. http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif. My mother was one of 5 1937 graduates of Manitou High School (that school building still existed as an abandoned building when I was a kid, but it is no longer there. Josephine Brown Richey (my great-grandma) also delivered my mother, as she was sort of a doctor of a sorts, and country people who couldn't go to town (it was a days buggy ride to town and back) I've been told, went to her for "poltices" and medicines of all sorts. I heard she delivered a lot of babies, too.

History says Black Fox (Enoli) was a "conjurer" and a Methodist Minister both. The "Looney" surname that is also Cherokee is said to have descended from him & his relatives. I am not sure what a "conjurer" is, but I think it might deal with traditional medicine. It is possible that tradition passed down to my great-grandma, but I don't know really. Whether it did or not, it died with her.

I do remember asking my mother about this after dad had passed away, and she told me a story about my Grandma Loney (Richey) Hawkins (Josephine's daughter). Mom said the first time Loney went to a doctor, she was in her 50s or 60s (that would have been probably in the 1940s during WW2). and mom said she took Loney to the doctors office. She told me grandma told her as she walked out of the doctors office "That man doesn't know what he's talkin' about!" I don't think she went to a doctor again until she was frail and in her 70s.

I'd heard "Manitou" meant "Great Spirit" or something like that, but knew nothing of the history or language of its origin. I do not know how the town got its name. It is really not much of a town -- most of its inhabitants are poor and some homes are not much more than shacks.

vance hawkins

vance hawkins

10-16-2002, 11:20 AM

I'd love to know what you have about "Solomon Richey"! I know my earliest known Richey was born John Richey in 1797 and census records say in "Virginia". Back then, Virginia probably included West Virginia, and for all I know, might have included Kentucky -- I really don't know. My Richeys went from Va to In where they are in 1820, nad John had married Mary (Polly) Wood.

If you still have that information about Solomon Richey, I'd love to get a copy of it! http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif Feel free to e-mail me personally. There was an "Adam Richey" in Lawrence County, Arkansas in 1810s and we thought we might be related (but we can not prove it) to this fella, as my Richey ancestors went to Lawrence County, Ar, a generation after that.

My "Looney" ancestors I "have evidence but not proof" were probably in Va, went to Little Tennessee River area of East Tennessee, may have been Wautagans, and moved with Chickamaugans from this area to Brown's Valley in NE Alabama. About 1815-1820 they went to Sipsey Wilderness area of N-Central Al, and from there to Arkansas in 1820s or 30s or so.

thanks everyone,

vance hawkins

Bess

10-19-2002, 09:46 AM

Itconani,

This is the first time I have heard of the name "Woodward" referred to as a form of "Woolard". I will keep this in mind. Should this be the case, the presence of James Woodward/Woolard in Berkeley county, might well explain the migration of the Veneys to this location. Do you have other info on the Woolard family in Richmond County or the Southside border region of VA? According to the book, referred to previously, the Woolards of the Southside Va. were involved in fur trade with the native people in the 17th century. William Woolard (from 1670 on) had connections with noted fur traders as Thomas Bland, Thomas Gilliam and Nathaniel Batts. William Woodlard and his descendants lived at one time or other among the native people in the areas of Nasmond County and Isle of Wight of Va. At another time he lived in the vicinity of the Roanoke River, the Chowan River and Albemarle Sound of N.C. So it is most likely that the Woolards had contact with some Siouan speaking peoples (among others) who have become identified, subsequently, in oral histories as "blackfoot".

Vance,
I have very little on Solomon Richey. What I have is presented below from the Court abstracts of Augusta county Va by L. Chalkley. You can get copies of the original case files, which have more details , by contacting the County court in Staunton, Va.

"Richie vs. Painter--O. S. 271; N. S. 95--Bill, 23d May, 1810. Orator is Solomon Richey, a free man of color, who was surety for Frederick Painter of Amherst as purchaser of a tract of land in Amherst from Walter Frazer on Pedlor River, 45 acres of which Painter agreed to secure to orator. Orator formerly belonged to Andrew Edwards of Berkley County, by whom he was freed".
CHRONICLES OF THE SCOTCH-IRISH SETTLEMENT OF VIRGINIA; Vol 2, pp 204 by Lyman Chalkley
Bess.

vance hawkins

10-19-2002, 11:39 AM

Thank you very much! My ancestors left Virginia between 1797 and 1820, maybe about the time of this 1810 incident. We have never known in what part of Virginia our ancestors lived. It is far harder to trace the residents of a state than the residents of a county. Now I need to find Brekeley County, and the city of Amhurst on a map!

Now I'll have to find out what it means when it says -- (paraphrasing) Orater was Solomon Richie/ey and Orator was surety for some land . . . -- I don't know what those sentences mean! http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif Can anyone translation this into 21st century English? Thanks.

We have had "hints" that some ancestors might have been slaves at one time, so that is not a surprize, if indeed we are related to "Solomon" Richey.

We can't find John Richey's (b. Va 1797 -- lived in Indiana two decades -- d. Ar 1861) father. Maybe it was Solomon? It is something to look into, anyhow, at the very least. We have been told our Richey's were "Irish" mixed with Indian people. "Tuckahoe" were supposed to be mixed-blood or poor Irish indentured servants, I think. So this "seems" to fit with what we know. Only further research can tell.

Again, thank you very much. If this checks out or can be checked out even, we are eternally in your debt. http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif

vance hawkins

Bess

10-23-2002, 10:01 AM

Smith Ulm

Material from my files in this area (Berkeley/ Frederick Co. Va.) suggest that the Smith and Ulm lines mentioned above may be related to the known "Indian traders" of this region in so called "pioneer days".Two names stand out: Pearis and Vanmeter. The family of Richard Pearis came into this area in the 1750s. They took up land along Back Creek, Opequon river, and Tuscarora creek. Richard Pearis traded with native peoples locally and with native peoples further south -- the Cherokee and the Catawba. He took a native women as a wife,locally, and a second native women as a wife in Cherokee territory. He owned "Indian" slaves.. Two of his principle collaborators in land speculation and trade were John Smith and Jos Hite. The name of John Ulm, also has come up(1779)in land transactions affecting Pearis. Pearis's land on Tuscarora creek was only a few miles from that John Ulm. So it is possible that leads to your Ulms and Smiths could be found in the records of Pearis.. The same holds of John Vanmeter. He was a trader who came to the area in the 1730s. He made contact with the Delaware of that vicinity and traveled with them to Catawba land. He maintained trade with both groups over time. Some of his descendants intermarried with Shawnee who dwelled for a time in that region. It might be worth while to delve further into the county records of Berkeley and Frederick counties to glean any relevant material relating to the families of Pearis and Vanmeter.
Bess.

Linda

10-23-2002, 10:22 PM

Very interesting. Are any of the Pearis records available online that you've seen?

I've heard there's a church called Tuscarora Church. I don't know if it's conjecture that it started as a mission church, or if it's known. I've wondered if there's anything in the earliest records that might reveal something along those lines. Have you come across anything about it?

Bess

10-26-2002, 12:04 AM

I have a few things on the church.The Tuscarora Presbyterian Church was located on Tuscarora Creek two miles west of Martinsburg. The creek flows slightly South and East through the town into Opequon River. The church was built in 1750. The tribe's movement to and through this area took place some time between 1713-1800. So, most likely, many of the organizers of the Tuscarora Church were present when the Tuscarora Tribe was residing on the Creek. There are records available on this early period of the Church. Some are housed at the Library of Virginia in Richmond, Va.. Others are probably held by the Genealogical and Historical Society of Berkeley County in Martinsburg. There were other churches organized at this early date near Martinsburg: the Episcopal Church-1740 and the Quakers-1780. Their records may also have relevant info on Native Peoples of the area and their relation to the settlers (invaders).

Only a few county records of the Pearis and the Van Meter families in Frederick county, Va or Berkeley County Va Wva are online. You will have to go to the state archives in Va and WVA and the county archives in Berkeley and Frederick, VA to get what you really need. Below I have plucked up a few things off the Internet at the Augusta County, Va. USGENWEBB Archive site. These are taken from abstracts made by Layman Chalkley of the District Court Records of Augusta. http://www.rootsweb.com/~chalkley/
[Bess-the spelling and punctuation are as presented in the document]

1.Chalkley Vol 3 p391
"Page 87.--16th November, 1762. Richard Pearis and Rhoda, of Frederick County, to Alexander Boyd, of the Virginia Regiment, £50, ½ of a tract containing acres in upper part of Dunger Bottom, conveyed by John Miller to said Richard Pearis and a certain John Smith, August, 1762. Delivered: Alex. Love, November, 1763".[Bess-this land is located in Montgomery County Va.]

2.Chalkley Vol 3 p346
"Page 450.--16th April, 1757. Cap. Richard Pearis to Sarah Paris and Margaret Pearis, £, love and goodwill; his daughters, slaves and other personalty; to Sarah in case she marries with father's consent; to Margaret, same condition (conveys one Indian wench named Pratchey. Delivered: Cap. Peter Hog, December, 1770."

3.Chalkley Vol 2 p81.
"Marshall vs. Hunter--O. S. 43; N. S. 15--Bill filed 22d June, 1799. Fairfax had set aside 800 acres for himself which he contemplated giving to a certain _____ Beal (?), but Beal removed out of Berkeley (Frederick). Fairfax devised it to Denny Martin, who conveyed to James M. and John Marshall and others by deed recorded in General Court. The Commonwealth confirmed to purchasers the lands set apart by Lord Fairfax to his own use. Philip Pendleton and David Hunter are in possession of the tract by a treasury warrant, and the parties leave the controversy to the Court. Copy of survey, 1775, for John Ullam of Berkeley County, of a tract lying something more than one mile and three-fourths from the Potomac and adjoining lands of Thomas Adams. Col. John Carlyle, Michael Shively. Copy of survey 1775, for tract adjoining old patent of John Van Meter on drains of Opecon in Berkeley County formerly surveyed for Robert Beal. Copy of survey 1775, for Morrice Gibbons of Berkeley County. Copy of grant by Fairfax to John Owlent, in 1753. Copy of grant by Fairfax to Cap. Richard Pearis, in 1763. Thomas Rutherford deposes at house of Thomas Flagg, in Charles Town, that from 1752-1763 he was surveyor for Fairfax. Beall returned to England whence he came, and there died. Robert Stephen deposes that after 1768 he was a rent collector for Fairfax. William Rush deposes (1802) that for 30 years he has lived on a tract joining the land in controversy. He is thirty-five years old. Richard Morgan deposes (25th September, 1802) aged 41 years, that he was born within one and one-fourth miles of the land in controversy, and has lived there ever since. His father was Jacob Morgan. John McCool of the society of Friends deposes. Peter Light, Senr., deposes. Robert Cockburn deposes. Copy of deed dated 20th February, 1784, Saml. Oldham and Anne of Berkeley County, to Moses Hunter, a tract on drains of Opeckon, conveyed to Samuel by John Linden (Snider) by deed 11th and 12th September, 1772. Cor. Moses Keywood, Cor. Cap. Richard Pearis, cor. John Newland, 150 acres. Recorded in Berkeley 23d April, 1784. Letter from Richard Rigg to Jacob Morgan, dated 26th July, 1777"
[Bess-This is a large case file involving a dispute over the ownership of land in Berkeley County, in the vicinity of Tuscarora Creek and Opequon River. The depositions, surverys, grants and deeds testify to the conflict in claims for Marshal and Hunter for the same land. It is noteworthy that the names of John Ullam, Richard Pearis and John Van Meter are mentioned indicating, that at a much earlier time they were so located to have had contact with the native people who were known to lived in this area--the Tuscarora.]

Linda

10-27-2002, 10:06 PM

My Johaan Ulm/Woolam was b. in Lancaster, PA 1745. His firstborn was John Woolam, b. 1772 in Berkley, WV (He had a daughter, Hannah Wollam who married a John Shively, BTW). He would have been my director's ancestor, John's Ulm's cousin.

Bess

11-01-2002, 04:40 PM

Vance,

You are not indebted to me. I gladly share my resources with you and others who are searching for evidence of their native ancestry. Knowledge of our native ancestry has been deliberately kept from us by those who oppress us, so as to better keep us down. The slave owners and the capitalists who robbed our for bearers of their dignity, of their land and plundered their labor have placed many obstacle in the way of our quest to unearth the truth of our ancestry. Only our joint efforts, not driven by material gain, can break through this maize. This is why I make my contribution to the common effort. My main concern is that what I give may be useful to those who receive it. I am happy to here that some of this info may be beneficial to you. I too benefit from the genealogical and historical material that people send to this list.

It is my understanding, though it may be slightly in error, that the meaning of the court action by Solomon Richey is to recover a debt owed him by Frederick Painter. In this case, Richey is the plaintiff, the "orator" (the person bringing the action) and Painter is the defendant. The issue resolves around a land purchase by Frederick Painter from Walter Frazier. Apparently, Painter bought it on credit. To ensure full payment and on time, Frazer required the purchaser (Frederick Painter) to get someone to "co-sign", that is to post a bond (surety) equal to the value of the land. Should Painter default on the payment, the bond would be automatically forfeited to Frazer. Apparently, Solomon Richie posted this surety bond as a friend or as a relative of Painter. Or he simply could have been a speculator. To protect his interest, Richey must have required Painter to put up the title to the land as security for the bond. Subsequently, Painter must have taken possession of the land, but failed to pay up on time and the bond was forfeited to the original seller, Frazer. Now, Richie was in trouble (losing the value of the bond) unless he could get Painter to turnover the land to him. Therefore Richie went to court, in Augusta county (this being his residence at the time of the action), to force Painter to turn over the title of land. Since Solomon Richey was a person of color and nominally without rights under chattel slavery, he had to prove to the Court that he was a "free person of color" and entitled to bring a suit before the court. That is the reason for the declaration to that effect at the end of the abstract.

vance hawkins

11-02-2002, 12:40 PM

again thank you. That explanation makes sense.

Where would one go to discover the results of this action, to determine if he won or lost his court case?

I think I'll look for a "Solomon Richey" in Indiana, also.

vance

Linda

11-02-2002, 02:51 PM

I just wanted to say, Bess, that I appreciate your research and what you are contributing.

Bess

11-02-2002, 03:56 PM

Richey,
Most likely the case file, itself, will have a copy of the Court's decision for or against Solomon Richey. This case offers some opportunities to locate documented genealogical info on Solomon Richey and the other parties, Painter and Frazer. Since you requested some help on what to do, may I offer a few suggestions based on my own experience that might bring results and cut down the time and cost of the search.
1. As I stated before, I would do everything I could to get a copy of the case file from the court house by writing them and requesting a copy of all the material in it. Contact:
Augusta county Courthouse,
Clerk of the Circuit Court
P.O. Box 689 Staunton, VA 24402-0689
Phone: (540) 245-5321.
A copy of the complete file will cost more than few dollars but it will be well worth it. It will save you major costs/time down the road.
A. The file may contain a copy of the manumission papers for Solomon (or other legal docs proving that he was free. Most often this type of document will give a brief description of Solomon from which you may infer his nationality. It may also indicate the time and place where Solomon was liberated; and other conditions, such as did Edwards have possession of other Richeys? who? Such papers occasionally, (not as a rule) will mention other relatives outright.
B. the file almost sureley will contain a copy of the property deed between Frazer and Painter. Solomon and or his relatives my have witnessed the transaction. The deed may give a more precise description of where the land is located on "Pedlar" river, mentioning neighbors, some of whom might(?)include other Richeys. It should be noted that some of the Painters of the Pedlar region of Amherst are alleged to be connected to people of Native American Ancestry. So it is important to find out more about the Painter/Richie connection through the deed.
C. There may be depositions from friends or relatives of Solomon discussing agreements between the parties before, during and after the land transaction. In these statements genealogical info may come up.
2. If I could not get a copy of the case file which should have the documents mentioned above, I would try to get individual copies of the key doc: the land deed from the Courthouse in Amherst County and a copy of the registration or manumission paper from the Courthouse in Berkeley, assuming this transaction took place there. It will be almost impossible to locate these docs online, since in all probability no one has uploaded them. The best alternative is to locate someone on this list who lives in Richmond Va. who can visit the Library of Virginia and go through their microfilm of the respective County records. Even then, the manumission doc will be hard to find in Berkeley county records because it maybe deposited in several places, and you have to check them all. It could be in the Will books (estate books) , the Order books or in the Deed Books under the name Andrew Edwards or in the name of his administrator/executor. But with persistance it can be recovered.

3. If I could not locate someone on this list or other native american lists to visit the Library of Va. I would try to get the respective County Court records through Interlibrary loan by way of your local public library or a near by university library.

vance hawkins

11-02-2002, 10:53 PM

Linda, I second what you say about Bess -- yall are both real treasures.

wa-do!

vance

Bess

11-15-2002, 02:06 PM

Richey

I looked over some of your other surnames besides Richey, ie., Guest (Gist), Hoten, and Dixon. I agree with you that your ancestors who carried these names came from East Tenn. They were connected to noted "indian traders" who came into this area via the old Warrior trail.
This path moved across the backside of Va, moving from the North East to the South West. The Northern end of the trail in Va. passed through Berkeley, County VA/WVA at the Potomac River. The Southern terminus was in old Washington County wich was at the Eastern gate of the Cherokee Nation in what is today, East Tenn (the counties of Sullivan and Hawkins). If you pickup a Va. road map, the Warrior Path is most easily recognized if you follow interstate #81 from Bristol Tenn. all the way up to Martinsburg WVA. This super highway was laid out, essentially, over the main branch of old Warrior Trail. Amherst, Bedford, Roanoke, and Augusta counties are located in the middle portion of this trail in VA.
Some of the main traders, coming out of PA and MD, who moved their pack horse caravans over this trial to the "Indians of the South west", were the Paris Family, the Smiths (John, Abraham), the Hites, the Van Meters and John Hatton and Christopher Gist. Though, initially, the focus of the investigation for Solomon Richey, should be Berkeley, Augusta and Amherst Counties Va, however, eventually it may lead to other counties along this trail including Frederick (in the North) and Washington County Va, and Sullivan and Hawkins Counties in Tenn. (In the south).
You speculate that the name "Hoten" may have come from "Powhattan". I think, more likely, it came from John Hatton, the "indian trader" who had a daughter, named Pratchy, by a Cherokee woman named Ah-ne-wa-kee Moytoy. The latter was the daughter of the Moytoy, a Chickamauga chief. Some researchers say that Pratchy Hatton was the second wife of Richard Pearis.
Your "Hoten"may be a derivative of "Hatton". Just as your "Guest" is a derivative of Gist. Also, you should know that the surname of the wife of John Hatton was Dixon. So this is where your Dixon may (?) have come from. Below I refer you to a few things on the Internet that support these conclusions. As well you should keep in mind that all these traders had connections with Eastern Siouan tribes of the Piedmont of Va/NC. Pearis, Hite, Vanmeter, Gist and John Smith had direct dealings with the Catawba. Additionally, Pearis moved to Amherst/Bedford County from 1752 to 1760 apparently for trade with the local natives, who were Monacans. Another trader who hung with this crowd, was Richard Smith. He was out of the Ft.Christanna area with direct ties to the Saponies, Occaneeches etc. So, the "Blackfoot" ancestors in your Richie and Woods lines could be derived from Siouan Native Americans with contact with this same group of traders as well. Bess Veney.
http://donmchugh.tripod.com/paris/richardpearis.htm http://donmchugh.tripod.com/paris/1700_1755.htm.

Linda

11-15-2002, 11:10 PM

This is good stuff, but the second link didn't come up. I'll have to come back to this later.

Bess

11-16-2002, 07:52 AM

Try this for Pearis, Hatton, Smith, etc.

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:TmcjKjfeMSoC:donmchugh.tripod.com/paris/1700_1755.htm+pearis+hatton+cherokee&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

vance hawkins

11-16-2002, 01:55 PM

thanks again Bess -- I owe you!

I was just speculating about the nanme "Hoten", it is in 2 generations of my Richey Ancestors, so I was wonderin'.

John Richey married Mary Polly Wood and they go to Indiana then Arkansas. Mary's parents were John Wood/s and Nancy Dickson/ Dixon. Now I need to look up more about this Hoten (sp?) connection. Lotta work to do! http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif Maybe this is comin' together. We've had a roadblock at 1797 birth of John Richey for years! Who were his parents? Maybe some of this will yeild some light for us, as well as the otehr surnames.

thanks again,

vance hawkins

vance hawkins

11-18-2002, 05:07 PM

I have some good news. I was checking the family of "Powell Brown" because he lived near my "David B. Brown" in Lawrence County, Ar., adn because that name appears on teh Swetland Rolls. However I discovered he & his family lived in the house of Anderson Griffith & his wife Matilda Wayland Griffith. The Waylands are related to me. Matilda's sister was Sarah Ann Wayland Richey, a g-g-grandma of mine.

The Griffith's had 2 children, and apparently both parents died, because those 2 children were made dependents of Hamilton Richey, who married Sarah after Joseph Richey died. They 2 Richey's are brothers.

But there is a family of "Brown's" on the Swetland Rolls of 1869, with a Powell Brown as a child, clearly not the Powell Brown in Arkansas who would have been an old man by then if he was alive at all. I discovered the 2 Griffith children are listed amongst this group of Brown's and this includes the "Powell Brown" who is a small child.

Now I can prove the Waylands were in SC and Va before goin to Arkansas in 1815, we know the year they arrived in Arkansas is sure. I don't know where the Griffith's came from as that's not a name I was really looking into, but I guess I need to now.

Swetland Rolls were of Cherokee who remained in the East. Well someone has a record of this family on line and about half the children it says were born in Adair county, Ok and the other half in Cherokee Co. NC.

But I doubt seriously those Waylands WERE Cherokee, because of where they lived, even tho they are on those Rolls. I thought the Richey's, Wood, & Dickson's of this line were mixed-Indian but I never saw Wayland on any Roll of any tribe. I bet since some of the smaller tribes had no "Roll" or government recognition process, I bet some of them signed up on Cherokee Rolls because they were the only game in town.

Altho I am not descended from these people, we are related to them, and so am happy to have found this link. So altho I was intrerested in these Brown's because they lived near David B. Brown (whom we have proof was Chickamauga-Cherokee and not some other tribe), and ended out disceoevring something I wasn't lookin for. Usually it is the other way around, I look for something only to discover it is a blind alley.

vance hawkins

Linda

11-18-2002, 05:25 PM

Glad to hear your good news.

Bess

11-23-2002, 12:29 PM

Vance,
Congratulations, this is good news, not just for you but all who are trying to squeeze the truth out these biased and duplicitous records organized by the exploiters-- the land robbers of the Native Peoples. True, some clues arose accidently, but it was your quick understanding of the significance of the clues and your doggedness that led to the good results. Keep it up. Bess.

vance hawkins

11-25-2002, 11:22 AM

Thank you Bess and Linda.

We have school photo's of 2 of grandma's brothers, with names left to right, row upon row, of a small rural school house (30 or 40 kids tops) taken in 1910. The 2 kids who are obviously Indian, are grandma's brothers, and their names are certain. They could be full-blood from those photos, but I know they are probably 1/2 to 3/4ths, and probably close to 1/2.

But those kids have Richey (first found in Va) and Brown (first found in Al) blood in them, and that is Cherokee (Brown) AND some other tribe (Richey), possibly Saponi but we are not certain. From Information on this web site I am thinkin' Saponi, with the Wood and Dickson/Dixon surnames, plus the information you found about Solomom Richey bein a "free person of Color". But we may never be sure of this. Also I found other people with the tradition of the "Blackfoot" and "Tuckahoe" associated with the surname Richey. I have never discoevred if or how I might be related to these people, tho.

Genealogy is just a lotta hard work and and it is so easy to be wrong. http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif

vance hawkins

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 11-25-2002).]

Linda

11-25-2002, 07:06 PM

I'd like to put those photos on this thread, if you'd like to. If so, send me an image file and I'll upload it to the site.

vance hawkins

11-26-2002, 11:09 AM

well, okey -- they used to be on the internet but I lost the site because they started charging money.

I'll e-mail you personally about the arraingements, if that's okay?

vance

vance hawkins

11-26-2002, 07:20 PM

Howdy Dennis,

As I said on one thread (maybe this one), I know documentation of a Griffith man who died, and his 2 kids were given to Hamilton Richey in Lawrence County Arkansas in the 1850s/60s. Both men had wives who were sisters, with the maiden name of "Wayland" and Waylands can be traced back to SC, the Va, then to Ar very early, 1815. The 2 Griffith kids show up on Cherokee Swetland Rolls of 1869. I know nothing of the Griffith male or his genealogy, tho, really. Hamilton Richey was my g-g-grandpa's brother.

Could your "Solomon" be the one recorded as a "free man of color"? Do you know anything about an "Adam Richey/Ritchey" and various other spellings? I've found him in Lawrence County Arkansas in the early 18-zeroes or teens, but he seems to have come there from Pennsylvania. I have thought of "Adam" because he was in Lawrence County, Ar, near Powhatan Ar very early on (30 years before my Richey's showed up there), and because he is a "Richey".

I saw a lot of Richey's in E. Pennsylvania census records and have wondered if they were related. I recall seeing the counties you mention with Richey's, but not knowing if I should look into them or not, as there are 20 or 30 or so other counties with Richey's back then in the early days of Caucasian America.

Dad always said his Richey's were "Irish" tho' and he never mentioned Switzerland. I asked him about all his genealogy out of curiosity years ago. He also said there was some "French" but I have never found a French surname and he never knew exactly where the French came from, he only said it was what he was told and knew nothing more about it. I heard that 1/4th of Switzerland speqaks French, 1/4 Italian, 1/4th Greman, and 1/4th something called "Romani" what ever that is. Is this true? Maybe they came from a French part of Switzerland?

This would take a lotta research to verify now, I'm just guessin'!

But thank you very much for this information. Maybe this is where we came from, I just don't know. It is definitely worth investigating further!

I have really been blessed the last few weeks with lots of information. Just wish I had time/opportunity to follow it up! Thank you very much.

vance hawkins

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 11-26-2002).]

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 11-26-2002).]

Carol Hunter

12-31-2003, 06:53 PM

I have just recently been told that my gm Mary Jane Wyatt (1900-1945) was a Blackfeet Indian. I had always heard she was Cherokee. One story says she was born in AR; another that she was born on the Anadarko reservation in OK. She resided in AR for many years and died in Altheimer, Jefferson Co. AR. Her parents were Alfred and Mary (Williams) Wyatt. She had 2 sibs - Cora Ella Wyatt and David Ray Wyatt, both of whom lived in AR for many years. Mary Jane and David certainly looked Native American. Don't know about Cora. I, too, am interested in any info on the Blackfeet in Arkansas.

Linda

12-31-2003, 09:22 PM

If she was connected to the "Other Blackfoot" we're talking about here, you'll likely need to go back quite a bit in time, as they were scattered from VA/NC in the 18th century. Williams is a name that fits the pattern, you may want to pursue that first, and see where they came from

Carol Hunter

01-01-2004, 10:03 AM

Thanks. I did see that Williams had come up in other posts. However, I'm at a roadblock with ggm Mary Williams. I intend to keep looking, however.

vance hawkins

01-02-2004, 11:05 AM

Anadarko is about a 90 minute drive NE from me. There are several federally recognized tribes there -- most are originally from west of the Mississippi (all but one).

There is one (and only one) federally recognized tribe from near the east Coast originally that now is in Anadarko -- Delaware Tribe of Western Oklahoma.

Have you checked them out for the Wyatt surname? I hope you find your people.

I believe they moved from Pa to Oh & In to Mo to Kansas to Tx to Ok, being moved around every few years . . . I might be wrong about some of the places they went, but they are based out of Anadarko now.

vance

Carol Hunter

01-02-2004, 11:16 AM

Thanks, Vance. I wasn't aware of the Delaware Tribe. I've tried checking out the "Anadarko reservation" for any info re the Wyatts and Williams and didn't come up with anything. I will try the Delawares. If I find anything, I'll post it.
-Carol

Bill Childs

01-03-2004, 10:04 AM

Hi Carol,
With your Mary Jane (Williams) Wyatt having lived to 1945, maybe there's a death certificate her and her parents' names should be on that.
Looked for them in Jefferson Co., Ar. but they're not there as of the 1930 census - have any first/middle name for Alfred Wyatt ?Just thinking "Alfred" may be one but he's recorded under another.
Bill

Carol Hunter

01-03-2004, 11:41 AM

Thanks, Bill. Let me clarify. My gm, Mary Jane Wyatt, was born in 1900 and died in 1945. I have her death certificate (which says she was born in AR, but my mother said Anadarko OK), as well as those of her sibs, David Ray Wyatt and Cora Ella Wyatt. According to the death certificates, their parents were Alfred Wyatt and Mary Williams, both born in AR. No middle initial for Alfred. David's d/c shows his mother's name as Mary Jane Williams. There is an Alfred Wyatt marrying a M.A. Williams in Lonoke AR in 1877 and a 1880 census entry showing an Alfred Wyatt born in KY married to Mary J. Wyatt born in AR w/ a child, Albert D. Wyatt. That entry shows Mary's father born in AR and mother in MO. I don't know if those Wyatts are my ggps or not.
Everyone I've spoken to says my gm Mary Jane Wyatt was an Indian. I've always heard Cherokee. Recently, I've heard from her step-grandson, Blackfoot. Hence, my postings. I've searched every on-line database I can think of and am stumped. The Williams in MO might be consistent with the Samponi. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks, again.

Bill Childs

01-03-2004, 12:02 PM

Thanks. I have indexed 1900 thru 1930 census that I'm going thru - will let you know if found.
Bill

Tom

01-03-2004, 03:15 PM

Hello well I suppose that this would be to post this; Bill has been doing some research on my family lines, and I hope he does not mind me saying this, but many names here on this forum show up on the 1850s census records from Indiana, I have a Williams in my family line, as well as Hardin, with possible connexions to Collins, cary, Gibson , Hawkins, Raney and several others show up along with the Hardin clan in Indiana,, sounds like extended families from central Nc Tn moving around again in large groups, really worth investigating,, Thanks to all and very Much to Bill, all the best Tom

Brenda Collins Dillon

01-03-2004, 06:22 PM

Hello Tom,

When Frankie Blackburn and I were writting the article for the Appalachian Quarterly on the Collins family we noted many entire families from Tennessee had migerated just after 1800. They went there but didn't stay long before moving on to Missouri. We got to checking records and found Indiana about that time period had opened up sections of land. The settlers grabed up the land, made a few improvements on it and sold it for a profit moving on to new territory. Many of those members of the Collins, Gipson, Bowlin, Johnson, Hawkins......Melungeon families were in that group.
Brenda

vance hawkins

01-04-2004, 11:13 AM

Here is a link to the Delaware of the Anadarko area. Interesting history -- people originally in New Jersey wind up on the Brazos river in West Texas before returning to Oklahoma -- it's amazing that they remained intact after all of that forced migration. They went to a lot of trouble to maintain their Indian identity.

http://www.trailsoftears.org/tribalinfo/content-delawarewest.htm

TRIBE NAME: The English name Delaware was based on the river named for Lord de la Warr. In early colonial times, this river valley was the tribal center of an area that included present New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York and Delaware. The tribe call themselves Lena'pe or Leni-lena'pe, which is equivalent to "original people."

LANGUAGE: Belonging to the Algonquian linguistic family, they once were the largest of all Eastern Woodland tribes.
HISTORY: The Delaware tribe was first encountered by Europeans in 1620 living along the Delaware River in and around present-day Vernon, New Jersey, as well as in New York, Pennsylvania and Delaware. By 1682, they had concentrated settlements in Pennsylvania, where they signed the famous treaty with William Penn. And in 1778, the Delaware were the first Indian tribe to sign a treaty with the newly established United States. By the 1770s, the tribe occupied the country between the Ohio and White Rivers in Indiana. Later in 1789, a band of Delaware crossed the Mississippi to escape the Indian wars in Ohio and settled in Spanish Territory (now the state of Missouri).

Throughout the next 40 years, 13 treaties provided for the removal of the Delaware from Missouri to a reservation between the Kansas and Missouri state lines. Surrounded by intolerable conditions, the tribe requested to be moved. Indian Territory was suggested, and in 1812, they settled in Oklahoma. By 1820, two bands had found their way to Texas, and in 1859, a group living along the Brazos River in Texas moved north with the Caddo and Wichita tribes to the Washita River. There they were allotted lands on the Wichita-Caddo reservation near Anadarko, OK. Today, there are two groups of the Delaware in Oklahoma.

CULTURE: One part of the tribe, known as Registered Delaware, came from their Kansas reservation in 1867 and settled with the Cherokee along the Caney River. Their descendants live in Washington, Craig, Nowata and Delaware counties.

The other tribe, federally recognized as a separate legal entity, was associated with the Caddo and Wichita tribes in West Texas and in 1859 came to the Washita River in Indian Territory. This group called themselves "the lost tribe" or "Absentee Delaware Tribe" and are known today as the Delaware Tribe of Western Oklahoma.

LANDMARKS: Delaware Tribal Museum (Anadarko); and Philbrook Museum (Tulsa), for carved temple masks.

Current tribal roll: 12,083

DELAWARE TRIBE OF WESTERN OKLAHOMA
Lawrence F. Snake, President

Gidget

01-15-2004, 02:24 AM

Hi, I am trying to find anyone that has anyone in their family with the last names of Doggett and Clatterbuck. Both families are from Charlottesville,Va and Culpeper County in Va. Please let me know if you have any info. thanks and god bless. Gidget

CoheeLady

01-15-2004, 02:58 PM

Gidget,

Were your Dogget's ever in King William County, Va.?

Gidget

01-22-2004, 01:07 PM

There is a good chance that some lived there,as my family lives all over the VA area. If you have any info please let me know. thanks.

sammarroq

09-10-2007, 07:24 PM