MO.collins saponi. and seeking history

[naelady]

hello
I'm from the collins family of David 1750
my line looks like this
david 1750
Aaron
David
Aaron
David 1850
Davids 2nd daughter Jemima collins Ross by his first wife Nancy Zerilda hopkins is my great great grandmas.

my question would be
I am searching for a forced removal and trail of tears story behind Jemima's husband robert F ross. His father was white! and his mom was pure native. we think two tribes and her dad was a chief. her mom died on the removal. possibly chickasaw in this line but it could be in the collins lines somewhere but that info was lost somewhere if it is there.
robert
he was born in VA or PA signed in the civil war In IN and OH. he lived in MO for awhile and he died in AR. what I think is his brother John was we think born in IN or OHIO. and died in AR too. his father a rich White scotch /irish farmer who helped the dieing natives and gave them land to bury their dead. the cheifs wife was dieing too and he had to go on so he left his daughter to care for all the sick. the white man ross help them and later married the Indian girl.
that is our story and it was jemima collins husbands mom and grandma's story. I believe it was a forced march or the cheif was very very old and sick too but "he had to go" on either way.

when I research indiana and Ohio files and history it talks about cherokee floating down the ohio river. yet everyone in OK doesn't recognize this as a place cherokee came from or chickasaw. anyone here have any clues for me to investigate this. there may have been other tribes too that these people were. the indian terms my grandma said where way to big for a little kid to remember. thanks. oh I think, just sort of think roberts mom name was Miller her dad was a chief of something. he had a great big indian name that no way a little kid could remember.
thanks for any help. renee

[Linda]

Interesting story. Thanks for sharing it and hope someone else can recognize these events.

I see you are from MO. Are you familiar with the other Saponi (Collins) there?

[naelady]

OH I wanted to correct and or up date this post I made a long time ago. in case anyone else is looking for this family.
I found my family relations on the Ross side. and am trying to document my family , and to help show saponi were marrying indians.
Here it is just incase other collins are searching for a Ross family.
Captain Chulio Shoeboots ( dasi-gi-ya-gi) son or grandson of Attacullaculla, probably brother or son of Dragging canoe. as the Canoe/Consene family uses the Chulio(a) and BOots names interchagably too. Shoeboots was Head man of Chota ( Hightower), wolf clan.
and his last wife Daull ( she is indian and black, a slave shoeboots married, or took as a wife)5 children with shoeboots.
the oldest child
Elizabeth Jane Shoeboots ( or just Boots)
1817 cherokee immigration roll as roseberry indian name Kahuga.
1835 removal roll as Eliza Shoeboots
1851 Drennen Roll as Lizza Boots.
children with her on the drennen roll.
Ailse ( fathered while elizabeth was a slave by George Lavender)
Sally (father Okilune? don't know if Okilune is Our John ross too or not)
Lotty (father John ross ?)
Morrison ""
Dasigiyagi ""
the last two we believe sign with watie's mounted rifles during the civil war and Robert is kicked out for being too young, late in civil war signs with the North. and JOhn Ross, the John of quantrill's raiders, he at least rode with them for awhile anyway.
these are their white names , I'm missing one child's white name.
John Ross (elzy, ailse)
Katherine(sarah? sally) ross
Noble L ross ( morrison? or LOtty?)
Robert F ross ( dasigiyagi) his last/second wife was Jemima Collins.
robert's mother and brother John where freed from slavery by shoeboots sisters Peggy and Lucy and JOhn Ridge ( excutor shoeboots estate) before the removal. Elzabeth removed with the ridges. Daull cared for JOhn's ridges mother.
Elizabeth was enslaved because Georgia over ruled cherokee Law making all children of slaves freed by cherokee invalid, and shoeboots died of old age by the time this happened so he can't protect her. Elizabeth was a slave for 5 years. she ( and her siblings, some who where not freed till after the civil war)pass as white on all IN. and AR. census's and slave documents say she is a Yellow nigress. well hope that helps someone!! renee

[vance hawkins]

can you provide locations and dates & names for Indiana (what county?), Arkansas (what county). Why do you mention Chickasaw? If they match, some of this mirrors my family. My family lived in Indiana, Arkansas, and in the Chickasaw Nation.

Don't get your hopes up because things like this usually don't pan out, but maybe . . . :)

vance

[naelady]

HI Vance
well the only dates I have are the kids birth dates. and there they were at one time or another. but I am missing few huge gaps.
1852 drennen roll lizza and the kids are in delaware district.
next I find them they are in IN.
robert has his PO box during the civil war in lawrenceburge IN.
by 1866 or 67 according to two witness in robert's civil war papers it says that Mr's ross and some of her kids moved close to switzerland CO. IN> so they are there in 1870. in 180 they are in AR.
Robert is not there as his wife angeline edrington just died in 1880 and he leaves the kids with her mom and dad. he is just all over Oh and AR according to his civil war papers.
But in 1870 dearborn CO. JOhn Noble and Katherine white with her daughter Jane white. and Elizabeth "JAne ross " born 1809 KY parents born KY KY is in dearborn CO IN. in the household too is John's new wife Mary. Jane is head of household.
then in 1880 John and mary are in LOnoke AR three kids, molly, Noble L, and george clinton dewitt ( he seems to have too many names or he is twins, which run in this family). but he never marries so the dewitt have been his joke name or something maybe. this family later by 1900 is in jackson CO AR. George clinton is still in the house then. Robert and jemima lived with and robert died next door to JOhn in Jackson CO just before the census in 1900. robert is also in blackoak and in laFeyette CO AR at some point.
in 1880 Noble, JAne and Katie ( katherine ross white dameron) is in JW dameron household in Logan co ( I think. my computer crashed and losts those files). Noble marries Mattie camel in Lonoke in 1881. seems to not be with her in 1900 though and a MOrrison ross shows up in censuses. so I don't know, but suspect he is Morrison boots too.
eliza jane's brother JOhn Boots is set free from Chicot CO after the civil war , he was a slave I belive as he is on a slave schedual there. I THINK he ends up in IN with his family near indianapolis as William Boots born 1814 KY parents born KY KY and is listed as white.

as far as Chickasaw goes hummmm
well great grandma knew the chickasaw/ choctaw legends and said she was related by chickasaw tribe to my Moms indian family that was from the choctaw tribe. I don't know if the chickasaw is in her collins or her ross or Daull side of the family yet though.
also Doll (daull )is said to have died in choctaw territory during the civil war. so maybe a possibility that she was part chickasaw maybe. shoeboots being dragging canoe's relation probably had many occasions to have interaction with the chickasaw both in georgia and KY.
dates of birth for
JOhn 1835
Katherine 1842
noble 1845
robert 1848or9 ish With him lieing to get into the civil war well we aren't for sure what year he is born. they all say they are born in IN or OH and two say that robert is born in VA, but we don't know if this is true or not. they all say both of their parents are born in KY on all censuses.
well I know I have a missing kid or two another strange thing is documents say that a claude is with Lizza Boots on the drennen roll but we find no claude listed, so was this JOhn ross or a child that died or something? and I don't know anything about the Ross because grandma wouldn't talk about him, because Jane killed him in self defense with a rolling pin around we think when robert was young, but could be as later as right after the civil war. well that is all I have as far as for sure things, I have lots of speculations and a few more funky memories that don't make alot of sense yet..
well I don't know if that was any help or not! renee