Tutelo-Saponi Phrases

[spilleddi]

Howdy folks. Sorry for the long break in postings, I been doing a little more behind the scenes work on this. Heres some weather phrases. I've been using a bunch of these lately.

Waanáañwa -- It's winter.

Omañgléewa -- It's windy.

Naháañb okaayíikiwa -- The weather is bad.

Saníiwa -- Its cold.

Noñxlubawa -- Its icy.

Nóoñxuuwa -- /nóoñxi-huu-wa/
Its hailing.

Hohihoowa -- /hohii-huu-wa/
Its snowing.

Manotihuuwa -- /manoti-huu-wa/
Its foggy.

Xaawoohuuwa -- /xaawoo-huu-wa/
Its raining.

vocabulary
waanáañ -- winter
omañglée -- windy
mañglée -- wind
naháañb okaayíiki -- bad weather
saníi -- cold
noñxluba -- icy
nóoñxi -- ice, hail
huu -- coming here (huu can also be pronounced hoo, take your pick)
hohii -- snow
manoti -- fog
xaawoo -- rain

[spilleddi]

How to talk about yesterday's, today's or tomorrow's weather.

Sitóoñle omañgleeooka -- /omañglée-óokE/ It was windy yesterday.
Naháñblegíñ omañgléewa -- /omañglée-wa/ Its windy today.
Naháñblegíñ omañgléeda -- /omañglée-dE/ It will be windy today.
Naháañbgi omañgléeda -- It will be windy tomorrow.

Sitóoñle saniiooka -- It was cold yesterday.
Naháñblegíñ saníiwa -- Its cold today.
Naháñblegíñ saníida -- It will be cold today.
Naháañbgi saníida -- It will be cold tomorrow.

Noñxlubaooka -- It was icy.
Noñxlubawa -- Its icy.
Noñxlubada -- It will be icy.

Sitóoñle hohihooko -- /hohii-huu-óokE-o/ Did it snow yesterday?
Naháñblegíñ hohihoowo -- /hohii-huu-wa-o/ Is it snowing today?
Naháñblegíñ hohihoodo -- /hohii-huu-dE-o/ Will it snow today?
Naháañbgi hohihoodo -- Will it snow tomorrow?

Sitóoñle manotihuuyooko -- /manoti-huu-óokE-o/ Was it foggy yesterday?
Naháñblegíñ manotihuuwo -- Is it foggy today?
Naháañbgi manotihuudo -- Will it be foggy tomorrow?

Xaawoohuuyooko -- Did it rain?
Xaawoohuuwo -- Is it raining?
Xaawoohuudo -- Will it rain?

vocabulary
sitóoñle -- yesterday
naháñblegíñ -- today
naháañbgi -- tomorrow
óokE -- past
dE -- future
o -- used when asking a question

[spilleddi]

How many -- Dokéenañ

How many are there? -- Dokéenañwo?
one -- nóoñsaa

How many bear are there? -- Mooñdi dokéenañwo?
1 bear -- mooñdi nooñsaai

How many deer are there? -- Witáa dokéenañwo?
2 deer -- witáa nooñbaai

Are there 3 squirrels? -- Nisdaaxga láaniwo?
Yes, theres 3 squirrels. -- Ahañ. Nisdaaxga láaniwa.

Are there 4 raccoons -- Wihá dóobaawo?
No there aren't 4 raccoons -- Ihaao. Wihá gidóobaana.

How many dogs do you see? -- Dokéenañ chóoñgi oyaxaatawo?
I see 5 dogs. -- Chóoñgi gisáañhai owaxaatawa.

How many buffalo do you see? -- Dokéenañ iaap oyaxaatawo?
I see 6 buffalo. -- Iaap agáasbeei owaxaatawa.

Do you see 7 cows? -- Maañpayíñg saagóomiiñ oyaxaatawo?
No, I don't see 7 cows. -- Ihaao. Maañpayíñg saagóomiiñ gowaxaatana.

Do you see 8 rattlesnakes? -- Hañdoo baláani oyaxaatawo?
Yes, I see 8 rattlesnakes -- Ahañ. Hañdoo baláani owaxaatawa.

Well, run away fast! -- Ehiñ, dalanoñ hindaaha!

mooñdi -- bear
witáa -- deer
nisdaaxga -- squirrel
wihá -- raccoon
chóoñgi -- dog
iaap -- buffalo
maañpayíñg -- cow
hañdoo -- rattlesnake

nóoñsaa -- 1
nóoñbaa -- 2
láani -- 3
dóoba -- 4
gisáañha -- 5
agáasbee -- 6
saagóomiiñ -- 7
baláani -- 8

owaxaata -- I see
oyaxaata -- you see
oxaata -- he/she sees
dalanoñ -- fast
hindaaha -- run

[Rick Cassidy]

This is Rick Cassidy; I am trying to learn how to say my aka-name Wind-Dancer. This is the name my papa gave me when I was about 12 yrs. old. I think it would be manglee wachiki. If this is not right I would like to know the correct way to say it. I am also trying to find out how to say it in Cherokee and East Souian Lanuages. If you can help me I would Greatly appreciate it.

[Minak-oknahose]

Hi Rick! "Manglee wachiki" is pretty close to what I have, and would probably be understood. I have found that since the language was spoken and not written, everyone seems to have their own method of spelling things. Per my recently published Tutelo Lexicon, my method would be "Maminkle wagichi".

If you want a detailed explanation, here's just about everything anyone could want to know about these Tutelo words!

The word for "wind" was recorded by two scholars in the 1880s, Hale and Hewitt. Hale spelled it as: Maninkle, Maminkre, and Mamunklei; while Hewitt spelled it as: Mamankle, Mamanklei, and Mangre. We are now pretty sure that all nouns have two basic forms, "with article" and "without the article", or as I call them, "articulate state" and "construct state". The spellings Mamunklei (Hale) and Mamanklei (Hewitt) definitely show the article (-i); where Hale indicated a short "U", Hewitt used "A" for the same sound, and I use "E" for the same short vowel. So I figure Mamanklei, Mamunklei and also Mamankle are all attempts to write the same articulate form, which I write as Mamenkley. That leaves Maninkle, Maminkre (Hale) and Mangre (Hewitt) as possible variants of the construct form. Maninkle was the form given by Nikonha, the last full-blood speaker, who was 105 years old. Another related word is the verb Omakle, to become windy. The letters R and L are interchangeable, not really different letters. Taking all this into consideration, I settled on the spelling Maminkle (construct) and Mamenkley (articulate), with Mangre, Maminkre as variants of the construct. (The final -y is only an aesthetic preference and is the same as -i)

For "Dance" we have three primary sources, Hale, Frachtenberg and Sapir. These last two recorded some words about 30 years after Hale. The forms they gave are: Wagitci, Waketshi, Ketci, Kitci (Hale); Mongitci, Wagitci (Frachtenberg) and Wagetsi'i (Sapir). This is mainly a veb "to dance", but apparently Wagichi (as I spell it) can also be used as a noun.

When you have two nouns together in a phrase, the first is in the construct state, and the article always goes on the second. So "Wind dance" is literally Maminkle wagichi (wagichi already ends in i so I spell the articulate the same as the construct, the i may be slightly longer).

Here are some more forms of the verb:

(Ima) wagichi - he, she or it dances
(Mima) wawigichi - I dance
(Yima) wayigichi - you dance

(Ima) wagichise - (he, she or it is) dancing
(Yima) wayigichise - you are dancing

(Mima) wawigichiwa - I have danced
(Mima) wawigichita - I will dance

So Maminkle wagichi could also mean "Wind dances"

"wind dancer" could literally be wagichise maminkle, dancing wind. But, Tutelo personal names usually seem to be in the most abbreviated form possible. So therefore, I would advise going with something like either Gichi-mankle or Mankle-gichi as a personal name.

Always glad to help!

[Rick Cassidy]

My brother I thank you for conferming the words for me. May the Creator bless you and your family

[Linda]

Thank you so much, Minak-oknahose, for this wonderful work you're doing. I'm so excited to see you've gotten the dictionary in print and available.

What does Minak-oknahose mean?

[Minak-oknahose]

It means "Making books" !

Thanks for the positive feedback! It seems not too many people have noticed this yet, but sooner or later they will!

Kihimanketesena, (Thanks, lit. "it won't get set aside")

[Linda]

Is Kihimanketesena a Tutelo word? Like pila huc?

Does pilahuc have such an interesting literal meaning?

[spilleddi]

Minak-oknahose, mekoolemechiñ gihuu. Glad to see you finally make it here.

[Minak-oknahose]

Thanks for the welcome, spilleddi! And thanks for all your help in preparing the new Tutelo Dictionary!

Linda, as for the words for 'thanks' - the first one was recorded by Lieut. Fontaine at Ft. Christanna in 1716 as Ketemaghketersinaw' - "I thank you sir". This was in the days before scientific understanding of linguistics, so it can be challenging to make out the nuances of orthography as used in the 1600s and 1700s. But basically, we can recognize today that this fits the form of a Tutelo negative verb, having both the prefix ki- and suffix -na. So what negative verb would it be, meaning 'thank you'?

The other piece of the puzzle was provided by James Dorsey, who was working in the same timeframe as Hale and Hewitt (1880s) and recorded much information. He wrote the following verb form: Lewa hi manki ta - "This, lay it down". The word Lewa corresponds with "this", and himankita does seem to be a verb, but it is in the form of a future tense, not an imperative - in other words, with all the information we have now, we can suggest a more literal translation of Lewa himankita as "He will lay this down". The field workers such as Dorsey wrote things down just as they were told, as best they could, and they were also working through Cayuga (Iroquois) interpreters, so it's not unusual for the English glosses to be slightly idiosyncratic and inexact; that is why he wrote it as "This, lay it down". Stripping the future tense suffix -ta, we can deduce the verb Himanka meant "lay down, set aside". Negative future is thus Kihimankitena, "won't lay down / set aside" and add in the -SE- for progressive (SE works similar to English -ing) in the right place, and we get Kihimankitesena, literally "It won't be getting set aside", which is close to what Fontaine wrote. Someone probably spoke the word very slowly for Fontaine to write down, so he recorded it as Ketemaghketersinaw. The first -te- in place of hi- is either misheard, or an older dialect, or possibly is the correct prefix converting it to a passive verb. But either way, it seems a nice and sincere thing to say if someone gives you a present - "It won't get set aside", and more meaningful than just "Thanks".

Pila huc or Bilahuk "Thanks, praise" is probably originally from Bihle huk, "All good" or similar. Another form of the same verb, Biwa or Biwah can also mean "thanks".

Mi koremichen!

[Linda]

Fascinating. I will be sure and use that in the play we're writing about the Occoneechee massacre here in Clarksville, ca 1676. I've seen other writers do this, use the expressions and cliches of another language to enrich the dialogue of characters and the effect is profound. It's a window into another culture's thought. Cliches are especially interesting. Quite often, the first time you hear one, it's poetry -- intense, expressive language. It's only after you've heard it the 200th time that it becomes mundane.

[Linda]

I'll get things set up for the sound files if someone can volunteer to prepare and upload them. If we wait for me to get the spare time, it might not ever happen. It will take more patience with a tedious task than computer skills.

[miallie]

hello. in a dream someone told me the word 'maninkle', refering to something in the dream that was integeral to the events unfolding.
I am using the dream and it's events as the basis for a novel. It is about the linneage of Faires and their secrets amongst mankind.
i have no recolection of this word maninkle, and after googling it have found it mentioned only here, on this thread about Tutelo language in referal to a word for 'wind'.
Thought someone might find that interesting...!