State Recognition -- how is it done?

[vance hawkins]

I have been thinkin lately -- I am not qualified for federal recognition and I know it. BIA allows Tribes to set their standards, but encourages them to set those standards "high" so people whose ancestors left the tribe can not return, and so people with low blood quantum can not "belong". Cherokees allow low blood quantum, but your ancestors can not have left the tribe. Other tribes do not allow low blood quantum, period, as well as sayin' if your ancestors left, you are not allowed membership. [my opinion follows -- So criticism of CNO really isn't fair. Criticism belongs to BIA.] Some tribes (like Saponi) were disenfranchized by the U.S. government long ago.

I understand this is why states like Virginia and Alabama have led the way in "State Recognized" groups. Is this correct? I'd like to know about the possibility of "State Recognized Tribes" being recognized in states other than Va or Al.

I'd like to start a campaign right here in Oklahoma to see about the possibility of the State recognizing people who do not qualify for federal recognition. Does anyone know if this has been tried here in Oklahoma and if so, what became of it? How would federally recognized tribes respond to such a thing? I'd like to put out "feelers" and see. State legislators would be concerned about what local federally recognized tribes thought about it as they are local voters. American Indian people are a minority group here in Oklahoma that politions will pander to sometimes. An Oklahoma American Indian Welfare Act is what Oklahoma Tribes are under in order to be federally recognized, and that is different from other states. All Oklahoma Indian tribes were disenfranchized when Oklahoma became a state in 1907, so to be reconstituted they passed this law. I really do not understand these laws very well. Does anybody here understand them? Can anyone explain it?

A lot of Virginians are here I'd imagine, and since Virginia has several State Recognized Tribes, I thought I'd ask yall about this topic.

I'd like to petition state legislators as well as the 30 or so federally recognized tribes in Oklahoma about what they thought about State recognition for those of us who either are of low blood quantum or for reasons of not signin up on the "right" rolls -- are not eligible for federal BIA recognition. Any advise? wa-do.

vance hawkins

[CoheeLady]

Vance,
What does blood quantum have to do with anything? As it only stands as a racist barrier that divides many people. It is time to stop using such terms, if we want change & expect to go forward, together as one.

The state of Virginia only has 8 recognized tribes, I don't consider that to be impressive at all. Considering the number of tribes that did & still do call Virginia their home. Virginia is very strict on recognition, but we can only blame that on the Virginia Council of Indians, as they are the ones that control who gets to be recognized, & who is rejected.

Vance you need to research who in Ok. has the last word on recognition, & check to see if the tribes that are recognized have any input into the process. My advice would be to set up a meeting with a state legislator & don't inform the federally recognized tribes in your state, unless you need to. Why tip them off? http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/wink.gif

Sincerely,
CoheeLady

[cheronhaka]

The problem with State acknowledgement is that it is grounded in "good ol' boy" protections. It is correct to assume that Virginia is engaged in protection of tribes which have been declared extinct and of which are resurected through the blood of [one] ancestor. However, this same status of acknowledgement is prevented from legitimate Indian descendants of tribes never legally terminated, nor declared extinct by statute. Racial stratification is the apparent issue, not that of provable blood and culture ties.

Virginia is only one state with protectionism at the core of acknowledgement. The same situation arises in the state of North Carolina by which there is a Law of acknowledgement of a specific group of Indians, separate from the others acknowledged by the Commission. It is under Chapter 71a.1. Specifically that the Indians known as Croatans [and] Indians of Robeson and surrounding counties shall hereinafter be known as Cherokee Indians of Robeson County, and by [that name] be eligible for services and benefits. AGAIN..."BY THAT NAME."

Just like the case of the Nottaway of Virginia, a question was posed to the NC Commission on Indian Affairs regarding program eligibility for the Cherokee Indians of Robeson County. The answer..."it is a legal question which needs the opinion of the Attorney General," a similar statement was presented by the Virginia Council regarding the Nottaway.

WHile the Nottaway's position was clarified by Ms Rountree's recanting of her claim that they were "Terminated," she further stated that the [tribe] is considered extinct by the state... not the individuals of the tribe! Interesting in that there is no statute of declaration that the Nottaway Tribe is extinct. In fact the last known official act of the State was a Court action which acknowledged the Nottaway and Nansemond Tribe as a legal entity (1850s). Therefore, one can assume that the declaration of extinction was based upon Ms Rountree's assessment that the tribe was terminated in 1824, and promoted by the [new] Virginia Council on Indians. This would be a prejudiced view of the Council based upon erroneous information presented by the Council's Expert on Ethno/Cultural-Anthropology.

Again, the NC Commission proclaimed its ignorance regarding the Cherokee Indians of Robeson County, and stated that only Acknowledged Indian Tribes could issue IDs which are valid for state services, and that the COmmission DID NOT ISSUE SUCH. Therefore, those who [are] legally acknowledged Indians, eligible for state services and benefits for Indians, are precluded from such in sole due to a lack of status as an acknowledged Tribe. While reading the Law, they were to receive services and benefits by the name "Cherokee Indians of Robeson County" and by that name ONLY! Does this sound a bit like discrimination based upon the status of an Individual? How can one be legally eligible for services and benefits but prevented from such simply because one is not enrolled into a state acknowledged tribe. Through the enrollment, one looses their status as acknowledged Indians under the law and are forced to join a tribe (specific references were to petition the Lumbee Tribe). Also note that there is a separate provision for the acknowledgement of the Lumbee Tribe separately from the Cherokee Indians of Robeson County (CIRC= Chapt 71a.1 and Lumbee Tribe = Chap 71a.3) during the same time period! What could make it more clear than the law itself!!!

Now to answer your position on additional avenues of acknowledgement, specifically within the state of Oklahoma. There was an Indian Reogrganization Act in Oklahoma, separate from the Federal Indian Reorganization Act. I suggest that you check to see if there was an expiration date for the Act. If such Act was never recinded, nor expired, there is a chance for you to reorganize a community of Indians under the provisions of the Act. Since it would be an activity of reorganization, it would create a [new] tribe, and therefore there would be dificulties in gaining Federal Acknowledgement (but not insurmountable). I suggest that you act swiftly as a failure to do so, and if you are not reorganized and petition for federal acknowledgement BEFORE DECEMBER 2002, your efforts would be in vain as the USBIA will not accept applications for any community of Indians who reorganized after December of 2002.

To speed up the process and create a legal status from within the tribal structure, you need to have every adult member sign an Affidavit of Reaffirmation of Tribal Status. If interested in a draft of such, contact me off line. The reaffirmation affidavit creates a special power of attorney for the [tribal government] to represent the membership in all matters of governance. Since it is a Special Power of Attorney, the Government as well as the Court Systems are obligated to acknowledge the Special Powers Granted. To do otherwise would demonstrate Discrimination based upon race and national identification, under the color of law.

I will be posting a WEB SITE with strategies for tribal reconstruction, restoration and acknowledgement in October of 2002. Just enough time to beat the USBIA deadline.

Another type of acknowledgement that many are unaware of is that of "Banding" with another acknowledged Tribe, or gaining a Charter from an acknowledged Tribe. As a Chartered Activity of a Recognized Tribe (Federal Tribe), the Chartered Activity becomes eligible for some USBIA programs. WHile this is not specific acknowledgement of the Tribe, it [is] acknowledgement of eligibility for certain services and benefits of the USBIA, and therefore can strengthen the position of the tribal community. Tribal acknowledgement by a Federal recognized tribe of a Tribal community is a higher form of acknowledgement than that of what a State provides. Since the activity is a subordinate activity of the sponsoring tribe, its membership would be eligible as members of an acknowledged tribe with respect to state benefits, and the chartered activity would be eligible for [some] USBIA programs. State acknowledged tribes are not eligible for USBIA services and benefits based upon their state acknowledged status.

Under the laws of Virginia, for example, a Federal Acknowledged Tribe is legally defined as a "State." The same applies to an acknowledged tribe of another state, it too is legally defined as a State. Under Article IV, Sec. 1. of the US Constitution all states of the United States are to grant full faith and credit to the public acts of another "State." Therefore, one can challenge the state in which the tribal community is located to gain an immediate status of acknowledgement of the Tribe should it choose the alternate acknowledgement activity of petitioning another acknowledged tribe for inclusion either as a band thereof, or a Chartered Subordinate Activity of the Tribe.

I hope this stirs up a lot of interest, both positive and negative, for without controversy knowledge is [not] imparted.

[Linda]

Welcome, Cheronhaka, glad you found your way here and have contributed such an informative post.

When you invited people to contact you concerning the Reaffirmation of Tribal Status, I assume you meant people with Nottoway bloodlines. Is that correct?

It seems that most people going for recognition have limited their rolls to people within a small geogaphical community. Do you think this is a necessary strategy? I've heard conflicting viewpoints on this.

[CoheeLady]

Hello Cheronhaka,
I assume you are of the Cheroenhaka/Nottaway tribe. I was on the Va. Council on Indians website last night, & came across the minutes of the meeting that included the Chief of the Cheroenhaka Indians. I also read part one of the news article from the Virginian-Pilot News, regarding the Cheroenhaka/Nottaway Indians of Southampton Co, Va.. I read that one of the tribes surnames is TURNER, well this is one of my families surnames of Virginia.

Helen Rountree may be respected by many, or should I, has fooled many! http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif She doesn't fool me, nor does she impress me in the least bit. I will not bow down to her, as other's do. The Council is like a click that has been hand picked by the Governor. There are two new council members that were appointed by our new Governor, they had never once been to a council meeting, until they were on the council! As I received a call from a council member, as they wanted me to do something about this. I was going to ask to be a member but I can get more done on the outside. If you need any help on getting recognition please send me an email & I'll help you in any way I can. Don't give up, as there are a few very nice people on the Va. Council, you just have to put up with the others. Don't give up your fight, if you need me just ask. Take care & God Bless.
Sincerely,
CoheeLady

[This message has been edited by CoheeLady (edited 09-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by CoheeLady (edited 09-16-2002).]

[vance hawkins]

I mentioned "blood quantum" simply because with the encouragement of the BIA, all federally recognized tribes are required to state their tribal membership requirements, and they all have a blood quantum requirement for membership, with most being either 1/4th or 1/8th, I think. CNO is one of the few, perhaps the only one, that thinks as many of us do, any amount of blood is suffecient.

I can have no English blood, move from India to London, and become a citizen of the U. K., but I can not do that to become a citizen of an American Indian Nation. Is that racist, yes -- but unfortunately it is the law, too.

Also the B. I. A. requires I think that you show descendance from a group that was once federally acknowledged in a treaty, AND you have to show a group of people never left, never disbanded, and were never assimilated basically. Almost nobody can EVER meet that requirement and that's probably why continually living on one place and being descended from only a few families is important, I think.

Some states realized this was impossible to do -- even states with a sizeable Indian population -- so they started state recognition. That is what somebody told me about Alabama's state recognized tribes. That is, they became state recognized because they knew already they were not eligible for federal recognition.

I asked this same question on another list. Someone said states that were once "Colonies" of the U. K. (like Virginia, and unlike Alabama) have state recognized statuses for other reasons. Once, these tribes had a relationship with the state goin back to colonial times, before the nation (U. S.) existed. I don't see state recognized tribes much further west than Alabama, though.

I do think it is a mistake not to let federally recognized local tribes be aware of our sentiments and intentions. It is an acknowledgement of respect which they can disagree with if they so desire, but it is also an open dialogue, and an opportunity to convert them, one by one, person by person, tribe by tribe. Change always happens slowly.

They know we exist already. I have seen several smaller tribes in the NE corner of Ok (Seneca-Cayuga, Miami, Delaware (E. Ok), a Band of Shawnee I think, Wyandotte, Ottawa, and a few others -- 8 or 9 in all) who have invited the White River Band of Chickamauga Cherokee from Ar & Mo -- to their ceremonial grounds for events, doing things together. Some of those smaller Tribes might do as suggested and help out that band of nonfederally recognized Cherokee. CNO is like a very big brother at their doorstep and they wouldn't mind irritating them just a little http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif -- ha ha.

Please feel free to e-mail me at cwyhawkins@yahoo.com . I didn't know anything about a Dec2002 deadline.

thank you all for respondin'. I am learnin' something.

vance hawkins

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 09-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 09-11-2002).]

[vance hawkins]

Concerning the Nottaway -- sounds a lot like a book I had to read in high school 30 plus years ago -- "Catch 22" -- damned if ya do & don't, both.

Silver & gold have I none, But I can wish you good fortune & prayers.

vance

[cheronhaka]

A clarification of previous statement which I posted is warrented.

When I stated to contact me concerning the Reaffirmation of Tribal Status, I was referring to any tribal community desiring to reconstruct their tribal status from the basis of the people of the tribe. That means everyone. I have drafted a Reaffirmation of Tribal status which can be modified to the specific needs of the individual tribe. This is much similar to that a format for reaffirmation. It is generic in foundation.

While I am descended from the Nottaway, so am I of the Cherokee and other remnant tribes. Because of this mixture, I feel it necessary to provide a generic format by which all tribes and bands can utilize for their benefit. I don't believe in the concept of holding one hostage through withholding knowledge. That is why I decided to open my own website to impart such knowledge freely (of course I would accept any donation without hesitation...if you know what I mean).

I am 100% disabled Veteran and therefore have the time to devote to assisting others in tribal reconstruction. By placing it into the public domain I reduce the time for replicating similar information to those who ask. That is why I put it within a generic format.

Some would take issue on a specific statement I placed within the Reaffirmation Affidavit, that of declaring the Children to be assets of the Tribe and therefore declared as Wards of the Tribal Council and Tribal Court at birth. The point is that if we declare ourselves to be tribal, we need to protect the only true asset of the tribe, our children, from being taken and placed with other cultures and races at the discression of the State. What the reaffirmation affidavit attempts to do is to establish a status of "Home State Jurisdiction." Without home state jurisdiction, a state court is in want of jurisdiction in matters of child welfare, and therefore is not a court of competent jurisdiction. This activity preempts the states jurisdiction.

Under the Indian Citizenship Act, one cannot loose rights to tribal property through gaining citizenship with the United States. It has already been argued before the Federal Corurt that Tribal Religion is a [property] of the tribe and the court cannot interfere with its practices. With the tribal population declaring the children as assets of the tribe, they are essentially regarded as the property of the tribe (remembering that in America all persons born and citizens thereof are the property of the United States dispite what we think). If the children are declared assets of the tribe, the tribe itself cannot be denied the jurisdiction over the children. Therefore, if tribal status is reaffirmed under the affidavit, and a grant of a special power of attorney is issued to the elected council of the tribe, then actual sovereignty is restored by the people to its elected representatives. This is truly the start of tribal reconstruction.

The tribe must first be reconstructed from within in order to truly be sovereign. A conveyence of sovereignty by the people is superior to that of a privileged status of sovereignty, remembering that sovereignty granted by the US is subject to the descression of the President...not the People.

Enough said for now on this subject.

There are essentially two factions of Nottaway at the present. The Nottaway who never left the area, and those who migrated. The Nottaway who never left are legitimate descendants of the Nottaway and Nansemond Tribe, of which I challenge the Virginia Council on Indians to validate either the legal termination or statatory extinction of the Tribe. It cannot be done as there is no document in existance to validate such. Henceforth, the Nottaways of Southampton have never lost status. I further challenge the Virginia Council on Indians to produce any record by which the adult population of the Nottaway and Nansemond Tribe held an election to formally dissolve the tribe. Again, it cannot be done.

Most of those who migrated did so and were either incorporated with other tribes, or maintained cultural ties with other tribes. Many of those who migrated or left the state were prohibited from return under the "Color Laws." They too retain their tribal and or cultural status as well as descendancy.

The Nottaways were included within the Potowatomi, Huron, Oghsguagas, Cherokee, Meherrin, etc. and were accepted so as Nottaway. My point is that the Nottaway never lost status, ever. It just did not exercise its options when the state established the Virginia Council on Indians because it never lost its status and had no need to petition. Why would a tribe which never lost status be required to petition for the status never lost? Simply put, the current Nottaways (Cheroenhaka of Southampton County) are for all purposes eligible for any service and benefit granted to other acknowledged Indians of the State, they just do not have State Council representation except through the representative at large.

What is needed is for a Nottaway to hunt, fish and gather under the provisions of exemption, utilizing their Tribal ID Card issued by the Tribal Council of the Nottaway. The state could challenge their activity but would loose the challenge simply because they would be required to provide the documents which extinguished the tribe, and of which there are none.

Again, enough for now.

[CoheeLady]

To Cheronhaka,
Concerning the Reaffirmation Affidavit, I find it very odd to want to use children as assets, SLAVERY IS NOT LEGAL ANY MORE! I must take back my previous post saying that I would help you, as I will not. If children are made assets of the tribe at birth, then whatever their parents work for & own will go directly to the tribe NOT THE CHILDREN! This I find to be an insult to the intelligance of many people, also it only smells of greed $$$. I may be a Turner, BUT YOU DON'T REPRESENT OUR FAMILY IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
CoheeLady

[vance hawkins]

Cohee lady --

I think you are misunderstandin'.

It's just legal mumbo-jumbo-gobble-de-goop --
Nobody's talkin' about modern day slavery.

vance

[CoheeLady]

Vance,
I'm not misunderstanding the legality of the issue, regarding children at birth being assets of the tribe. As the Reaffrimation Affidavit declares that the children will be wards of the Tribal Council. As Cheronhaka stated,"With the tribal population declaring the children as assets of the tribe, they are essentially regarded as the property of the tribe."
CoheeLady

[cheronhaka]

TO CoheeLady, and other interested parties.

First and formost, we are not talking about slaves when we talk about assets of a tribe. We are talking about the continued existence of the tribe itself. If all the children are taken away by the state, then there is no tribe. To think otherwise would be to turn away from the reality of how things are.

When you are born in the USA you are assigned a birth registration number, are you not? This birth number is the first step in the registration of you as an asset of the United States and that is why America assumes that you belong to it. The requirement of one to attain a Social Security Card, now at birth, is to reinforce the asset status. For example, if you don't file your taxes every year without your "asset" number, you are immediately sought out for possible prosecution. They locate you through your asset number.

If you want leave the United States for any reason, and refuse to give your Asset Number (aka Social Security Number) the IRS can impose a penalty upon you for the refusal in the amount of $500.00 and still require you to give them your asset number. EVEN if you do not plan to work in a foreign country.

If you go to a foreign country and decide you are not a citizen of the US, seek employment there while complying to all their requirements, and fail to pay the IRS, you can be charged as a criminal...even if you decide you are not a citizen of the US. Even, if you acquire citizenship with another country, you first have to get the permission of the United States, therefore you are an asset and a slave.

The purpose of the reaffirmation affidavit and the position that the children are assets of the tribe is for the protection of the children from a foreign government seizing them and placing them where ever they wish.

If you go to the state of California and bring your children there, be aware that upon establishing residence that the children are immediate Wards of the State of California and you as a parent are entrusted only to their care, with limited legal rights. Many states have similar status for the children residing there. That is why a Social Worker can take your children from you without benefit of a Trial. You then have to prove that you are fit and are willing to comply to their directives, else you shall never have custody of the children again. AND, if you remove them from the state, then you can be charged with felony Custodial interference and interstate transportation of a minor.

To reduce the conflict of multi-jurisdictional laws, the federal created a concept of "Home State Jurisdiction." Therefore, no matter where you removed your child to, including to the state in which the child was born, and if you were resident in California when the state removed the child originally, the state of California holds home state jurisdiction and you are governed by their laws.

To overcome the concept of Home State jurisdiction, many Federal Tribes have declared their Children to be ASSETS of the Tribe to be protected as they are the future of the tribe. Others declared the Children as wards of the Tribal Court and/or Council at birth in order to pre-empt State jurisdiction over the child. Still others declared the children as both assets and wards of th Tribal Court. This preempts any states' jurisdiction, and the homestate for jurisdictional purposes rests with the tribe.

Therefore the concept of Assets in this instance has nothing to do with concepts of slavery, but the precept of protection of the children from a foreign government seizing them and determining the best interests of the child from a foreign view.

If you feel that I have not adaquately answered your concerns, then be more specific and I will address the specifics.

Again, if you proclaim yourself to be an Indian, enrolled into a Sovereign Indian Tribe, then how can the State or the US have a superority over your children more so than you or the Tribe? There are no East Coast Tribes who signed a treaty or agreement acknowledging the Supremacy of the US nor that they resided in the Territory of the US, so again, why is it that a state Social Worker can take your children at any time [if] they do not belong to the state? If you can answer that for me, please do.

For your knowledge, I appeared before the Superior Court of California in an Indian Child Welfare issue (State removed a child of the tribe, placed the child with a non Indian Jehovas Witness, and was going to allow the child to be adopted into that family). I argued that the child was an enrolled member of the Tribe, as was the mother who was non married at the time. I was promptly informed that the Tribe was neither state nor federal acknowledged. I presented the "reaffirmation affidavit" which was signed by the Mother prior to the birth of the child and the ensuing custody battle. The court responded with "unless there is a competent court of jurisdiction" (Tribal Court) with specifics of tribal law governing the children as "Assets of the Tribe and Wards of the Tribal Court," it would have to dismiss the affidavit as not relevant as it refers to a Tribal Court and Child welfare law of the Tribe. I produced the Tribal Child Welfare Law, and rules of order for the tribal Court. The Judge reviewed the Tribal Laws, and rules of order as well as the affidavit and found it consistant. The ruling was the full and complete transfer of jurisdiction from the Superior Court of the State of California to the Tribal Court, with it came the acknowledgement that the tribe [was] an Indian Tribe with a court of competant jurisdiction. Again, remember that the tribe was neither state nor federally acknowledged.

In order to demonstrate that you are a Sovereign Tribe if you do not have a formal state of acknowledgement at the state or federal level, you must gain the sovereignty by the will of the people of the tribe. To do so in a way by which the Court is obligated to acknowledge such, it must be in a format by which the court understands. That format is within the structure of a "Special Power of Attorney." That is what the reaffirmation affidavit is.

And by the way, Indians are not dual citizens of the US, even those of tribes which do not have a status of acknowledgement. Citizenship cannot be imposed upon one. The 14th Amendment to the constitution did not make all Indians residing or born in the US Citizens. If that was the case, then there would have been no need to create the American Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, which was an Act of "Naturalization." One cannor be Naturalized without their knowledge or consent, nor can one be forced to accept naturalization as to do so would be under duress, which invalidates the citizenship.

As the action of naturalization of Indians was created, there was also created a "Certificate of Citizenship for Indians" to be issued to by the Secretary of the Interior, further substantiating that it was an activity of Naturalization. Can you demonstrate for anyone on this forum that you or one of your ancestors [has] such a document?

Remember also that you can be a Citizen of the US and a National, or just a National of the US. Peurto Ricians are Nationals because they are born in a territory "claimed" by the US (for their protection I might add). But they are not US Citizens. There are many Phillipinos who were born in the Phillipines who were Nationals of the US, but who were not citizens. The same applies to Guam, and other pacific Islands. As a National, you are eligible for all the services and benefits enjoyed by a US Citizen. To accept that you are a CItizen of the US further erodes any status of Sovereignty, implicit or implied.

I won my arguments regarding this issue of National vs Citizen of the US and was effectively removed from the rolls for jury duty (only a Citizen can serve on a jury in Missouri). I am a Citizen of the Tribe and a National of the US.

[cheronhaka]

I forgot to mention that the Reaffirmation Affidavit has nothing to do with the Tribe gaining the income or property from the parents, or anything of that nature. The Ward status is specific in that there is a [shared] legal custody with the parent. Not superior to the parent. It ensures that the placement of the child remains with the parent, or the tribe [in time of need]. Nothing infers the tribe having any authority over the parental assets or the child's assets.

Again we get into what the state does. In order for the state (especially California) to have any decision making ability over the child, it MUST have legal authority to do so. That is why children were declared as Wards of the state, which is especially evident when the child enters the school or judicial arena.

If the Tribe is to exist as a tribe and not as the YMCA, it must have the powers to govern. Without which it is nothing more than a social institution similar in structure to a YMCA. That is perhaps one of the main reasons I state that one must formally proclaim that s/he is a "CITIZEN" of the Tribe rather tham a Member of the Tribe. Tell me if this sounds right to you: American Member, Virginia Member, YMCA Member, Tribal Member, Richland Member. Of this listing, four are declared to be sovereigns. You are a citizen or Resident of a State, but you are not a member thereof; You are a Citizen or National of the US, but you are not a member thereof; You are a Citizen or Resident of a City; but again, you are not a member thereof. Why then are you only a member, neither resident, national, nor citizen of an Indian Tribe. The reason is that a Citizen has a more formal relationship with his COUNTRY. A member (according to the dictionary) "is a person belonging to an incorporated or organized body, club, or society, etc."

[Linda]

As usual you put forward compelling logic. I do understand what you are saying now about the child custody issues, though I must admit, when I first read your Affidavit it floored me. I said to my husband, "It says we can be considered Indians. All we have to do is give away our children and our citizenship."

Since then I have come to feel that I would prefer, if something happened to us, that the people we consider to be in our tribal family would make the decisions about what happens to our children, and not the state.

As for the other issue, I don't think I'll be contesting my summons for jury duty. I do feel I have enjoyed a good many privileges as someone assumed since birth to be a Citizen (That's what my birth certificate announces -- the arrival of a new citizen.) I think my approach is to consider that the better part of the American philosophy and values are really native derived. I don't need to change allegiance, my country just needs to be itself more honesty and fully.

This is an Indian country taken over by aliens who usurped the values of this land and called it the American spirit. That's a lie. Those core values were never breathed in Europe. White men never breathed the air of personal liberty till they came here. Then they patted each other on the back for what they'd "invented." Not exactly.

[cheronhaka]

Your most important asset: People, without which there is no tribe!

Children As Assets is not a foreign concept of either the state or the tribe. Persons regarded as Assets are formally regarded as valuable to the continuity of the culture. Because the term "asset" is used, it should not belimited in context to a form of property, but inclusive of a value to the continuity of the future of the tribe.

Elders are a valuable asset to the tribe in that they convey the histories and traditions of the past. Parents are assets to the tribe in that they procreate to maintian the present status of the tribal existence. Children are assets of the Tribe in that they [are] the future, without which the tribe is no longer existant.

Honorable Napoleon A. Jones, Jr., United Stated District Court, Southern District of California referrs to Children as assets of the state.

most people see their children as assets
African cultures continue to value children as assets. Children assure the generational continuity ...

Children, as assets of the marriage, are often allocated in terms of "custody" to one parent or the other. As an asset of a tribe, the custody of the children, outside of a marriage, or if deemed a child in need, would first be placed with the parent and secondarily with the Tribe or within the tribal culture. This precludes an invasion of the state into matters of the tribe.

Again, I hope that you understand what I stated was not to infer "Property" but of great "Value" the continuity and future of the tribe. The reference to the Status of Citizenship with the US under the Indian Citizenship Act, and references to one not loosing rights of tribal property, must be understood as a legal term for the protection of the peoples of the tribe. Not that of implied slavery.

Oh! to correct the phrase that Slavery was outlawed. Such should be revisited as slavery for American Indians was not outlawed until 1935, eleven years after Indians were allowed to be naturalized as citizens of the US. Mississippi did not outlaw slavery until 1992 which finally released the Wife from the status of Property of the Husband.

Slavery was re-introduced under the Clinton Administration within the limited form of endentured servitude by the will of the state and without the necessity of Due Process. This activity is often refered to as Child Support Payments by which a person can be forced into labor, regardless of status disability, and can be prohibited from Drivers License, Education, specific types of employment, freedom of association, choice of religion and cultural practices, and from even leaving the state. If this is not slavery, I don't have a comprehension of what is. One can even be placed in a jail cell, released to perform "assigned" labor, then returned to the jail, never receiving any benefit of wage for the duration of the period endentured to by an action of law, and without being charged for any crime except for being unemployed or disabled. Again, to me that is the very definition of slavery. If you would like, I can give you an example from my own family who is charged with felony non support for a period in which he could not gain employment due to no employment opportunities within a 50 mile radius, driver's license revoked for non payment of child support due to unemployment, Mandated not to attend school under threat of incarceration if attempting to do so, placement in jail and released for work and upon completion, returned without benefit of compensation (all money earned went to pay for incarceration costs as well as Child Support) and because he could only work 3 hours per day due to disability, his earnings went to incarceration only and his child support remained in arrears. He was also informed that he could not associate with certain tribal members of a local tribe nor could he participate in cultural activities which would be offensive to the Child's Mother, nor to continue with his religious practices. Therefore, I have first hand knowledge of the existence of slavery in the United States Proper, and specifically in the state of Wisconsin. Rest assured that the American Civil Liberties Union was contacted regarding this matter, but they declined to assist due to it being a matter of Criminal Non Support!

This is why it is imperative that a tribe formally declare its protections for the family and the children. To allow the state to continue in its practices is to accept that the tribe is extinct in practice. If it takes a statement of declaration that the children are assets of the tribe, to be protected by the tribe, declared Wards of the Tribal Court and Council at Birth with shared legal custody with the parents... If this statement alone will protect the children from being taken by the state social services agency, and protect the non custodial spouse from being legally placed into slavery, then it is the right thing to do.

What we are arguing about is semantics. The Court understands Legal terminology and format...symentics takes a back seat as it does not matter what the Dictionary defines a word to be, the Judge's definition is what the court will rule on...and none other.

[cheronhaka]

To all,

What I presented is the furthest from a status of greed as implied by CoheeLady. I for one have given over 95% of all my wealth, lands and time in the past 30 years to the advancement of tribal reconstruction, restoration and recognition. If I did not believe in what I was attempting I would have required that I be paid for everything presented. If I believed that such activity would create a status of slavery (children as assets), I would not have battled against the Superior Court of California, at my own expense and for a child of a tribe in which I did not belong to. These concepts I presented is what forced the state to return the child to the jurisdiction of the tribe, who in turn returned the child to the custody of the parent. Ask yourself, how many non recognized tribes have had their children returned from state jurisdiction to the jurisdiction of the non recognized Tribe? I have found none to date outside of what was accomplished in California. If I am wrong in my activities, and perceptions, then how come the state relinquished its jurisdiction? At least one Indian Child benefited by my activities, and the parent and tribe as well.

I do not fault CoheeLady for her understandings. Many have felt the same way, but they did not know or realize what is currently being done in their presence by the state. Remember if a tribe is truly sovereign, it alone maintains jurisdiction over its citizens... not the State!

By the way, I too have Turners, Woodson, Rogers, in my family. I never claim to be a representative of any of them. I am not a Chief, a Sachem, or anything within the leadership. I am mearly a person who made it his life's goal to help others to help themselves. This is in reference to the statement "I may be a Turner, BUT YOU DON'T REPRESENT OUR FAMILY IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. CoheeLady" I do, however, respect your position and would not entertain an activity to belittle your concerns. They are valid and constructive to assist in the clarification of my presentations. Thank you for being straight forward.

With respect for all

[CoheeLady]

Cheroenhaka,
I don't know where to begin, as you seem to have many questions, but all the answers!lol. I assume you are not even from Virginia, where the Nottaway live, or am I also wrong on this point? There are many American Indians that are proud to be citizens & have fought in Wars for the United States. You asked whether I could provide a Certificate of Citizenship for Indians, I do not have one, & I can't speak for my ancestors, as they may or may not have had one. I can only tell you what I know, as I will not lie or guess. I do not have a regular birth certificate, I only have a registration of birth record, this was just recently found out when I looked at it, & also went to get a copy of it. The state of Virginia was the first to have a dept. of Vital Statistics. The person in charge was Dr. Walter Ashby Plecker, a Eugenics' Movement member. He wanted a system to register all Indians,& non Indians so he could keep track of them. Plecker produced a list of surnames of those that claimed to be Indian & or passing for White , as he believed that there were no Indians unmixed with African American ancestry, he believed that no true Indians existed here. Such a ignorant man, he was. Our family surname was on his list twice. Due to the families that were of both European & Indian ancestry, like mine, they caused Plecker a lot of trouble, since we have no African American ancestry, only European & Indian. We didn't fit into his theory about all Indians being part African. So his hatred towards American Indians left behind a paper trail of information, for families like ours. This list includes people on & off of reservations!!!

Now regarding the children, I know how it feels to be a Ward of the state. To be ripped from the home of your parents & taken out of school, even though I was a A student. The pain,& disrespect one goes through never goes away. As it lingers & makes one very bitter sometimes. However in my case, I wanted to prove everyone wrong. By being the best person, wife, & mother, that I could possibly be. I will never forget the caseworker, she was such an evil bitch. I was abused by a state worker, as they threw me onto the concrete floor. I woke up in the hospital with a hematoma (blood clot) on my brain.

As a citizen of the USA, I have only missed voting in one election, since I was of the legal age to vote. I do not take my freedom for granted, & am proud to be an American. Regarding your citizenship, the only way in America to LEGALLY renounce your citizenship is by moving to another country, but you can't come back. How is it you are able to stay?
CoheeLady

[cheronhaka]

To CoheeLady.

To answer your concerns regarding how I am able to stay in the US as a non citizen, the following applies:

1) I was born in a territory which is claimed by the US

2) I have a registered birth number in the US

3) I am a US National at birth due to the above status

4) I served in the US Army, Airforce, and National Guard starting in 1970 and completing in 1993.

5) I was honorably discharged from each military component that I served, and in the service to America, I was awarded two (2) National Defense Service Medals, Over seas services (Berlin), meritorious service awards as well.

6) I am 100% military service connected disabled as a consequence of my service to America.

Therefore, I have earned a right as well as the privilege to reside here.

Until the United States honors the rights of Tribes and tribal communities to exist as complete sovereigns, I will remain only a National of the US. When I see tribes such as the Saponi, Nottaway, Tuscaroras of North Carolina, etc regain their rightful status, then and only then will I submit my request to be Naturalized under the American Indian Citizenship (Naturalization) Act of 1924.

My concern regarding the children is based upon my own father being removed from his parents, as well as his siblings, for no other reason than for practicing their cultural traditions. My father was placed in an Orphanage, his sisters repeatedly raped under the care of the state, and he had to beat a male matron in order to escape, thereby becomming a criminal of the state just for being Indian. I am sure that you can identify with my feelings regarding the states assumption of powers never granted to their control.

I do not vote in any election of the US, the state, or county. However, I am active in my own community of which I have pledged my life, liberty and property.

In the Military I took an oath to defend the Constitution for the United States, a document in which I believe in and am willing to kill others in defense of.

Again, that is how I am able to remain here.

[vance hawkins]

Thank yall very much for all the commentary & ideas.

I am beginning to think it wouldn't do any good to write anybody -- federally recognized tribes or the state, here in Oklahoma.

I mentioned to somebody a local tribe that has a 1/4th minimum blood quantum law and it was taken almost as an attact on their sovergnty to bring this topic up. And I guess it is, because they chose this blood quantum. It is their sovergn right to choose membership qualifications as they want.

But I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't, too.

I do think that unenrolled or better yet non-federally recognized tribes ought to make it a point to befriend and get to know members of federally recognized tribes, on a one to one person basis, agree to be friends, and agree to disagree, when necessary. I think overtime they will see the "strength in numbers" is more important than "pure unmixed race" and they can be won over, but it will take time. I think some are sort of afraid their tribes will become taken over by the mixed faction and they will lose control, I think. They need to be reassured otherwise.

I really can't effect much change, but I once tried. And once you get it in your blood, well -- it's hard to let go of.

vance

[cheronhaka]

Vance,

Don't give up on your initial quest. You are right to look toward knowing individuals of both federal and state tribes who are within the governing process. Remember that it is not another government that bestows rights of sovereignty upon your community, but rather it comes from within. The other governments can only acknowledge you for services and benefits that [they] provide to acknowledged governments.

If you do re-organize like minded descendants into a self governing community, remember that you can still gain status of acknowledgement from foreign governments as well. You can even petition them for foreign aid. While the US government doesn't like this approach, they have no legal controls to stop it. If memory serves me correctly, the Seminole of Florida was establishing foreign relations with Cuba in the 1950's which prompted the federal government to acknowledge them. The federal government can only regulate trade and intercourse amongst the states and Indian tribes which have treaties and agreements with the US.

[Linda]

Interesting story about the Seminoles and the Cubans. Makes me wonder if it inspired the storyline in "The Mouse that Roared." haha. Great old Peter Sellers movie from the sixties.

[vance hawkins]

Web site of Oklahoma Indian Affairs Commissions
http://www.state.ok.us/~oiac/

a little bit of what they say on this site

The Great State of Oklahoma is home to 39 tribal governments. Thirty-eight are federally recognized as sovereign nations and another has applied for federal recognition. According to the 2000 Census, Oklahoma is home to a population of more than 380,000 tribal members. The Cherokee Nation, located in Tahlequah, is the second largest tribe in the United States with over 222,000 members. Oklahoma's smallest tribe is the Modoc Tribe, headquartered in Miami, which has an estimated membership of 200.

Addresses of the 39 tribes in Oklahoma
http://www.oiac.state.ok.us/tgo.html

denotes populations – they mention that the Yuchi are a historic tribe that has filed for federal recognition. It also gives a figure of nearly 600,000 members of these 39 tribes. This doesn’t even include those here who are Indian and can not be federally recognized – and there are a lot of us, too! So you can see why in a state with a population of 2,500,000, American Indians are a sizeable minority that politicians might pay attention to, locally. Many of these tribal members probably live outside of the state, but they all have family and roots here. By trying to bypass them you offend them locally, and they have long memories . . . that’s not really a local option.
http://www.oiac.state.ok.us/enroll.html

So you will see that Oklahoma has the highest concentration of Indians found in any state. What Oklahoma Indians want is what will become U. S. policy if they get local politicians behind it, cause they’ll tell it to their buddies up in D. C. . . . and they’ll get something done.

I guess I will send a generic letter to the 39 tribes and see what will come of it. BUT – if yall or other state recognized groups can convince federally recognized tribal councilmen & women of the sincerity of their cause, of the inability to be able to be able pass federal requirements for federal recognition, perhaps they can help in some other type of recognition, affiliation with others of similar circumstances. Tribal members let me assure, are aware of the numbers of the unenrolled and unenrollable. They know this already.

Canada has their “Metis” a Canadian friend once told me about them. Unfortunately, I have lost touch with him. Why can’t we in the U. S. do something similar to what the Canadians have done? I think that is what state recognition is mimicking – some states realize the federal government ought to be doin’ something and it isn’t, so they will. States with a strong tradition of “states rights” like Alabama – dispite using that tradition for evil it the past, can use that tradition of “states rights” for good causes as well, such as in creating state recognized tribes. So states are fillin' a void the U. S. government has left alone.

I think in Oklahoma, because of the large numbers of Full Bloods, those of us who are unenrolled and unenrollable, are more intimidated – how dare an 1/8 blood claim rights the full bloods have fought for and barely have – in the past -- they have seen us as whites, basically, who want to take their last vestage of nationhood away. Full Bloods don’t want to be a minority amongst their own people. They need a way to let us partake without losing their standing as the people who are left. Do yall understand this? I hope so.

I am not one of them, but yall need to know why they might not want us to “belong”. You can argue with me if you like – I can handle it. But nonfederally recognized groups HAVE TO GO TO FEDERALLY RECOCNIZED groups, talk mano a mano, and each has to be allowed to explain their position. We need them and they don’t see that they need us. They don’t want anything from the unenrolled yet we need their approval, so it is the unenrolled and nonfederally recognized groups that have to find something we can offer them, to get them to sit with us.

I don’t represent anybody but myself. But I am gonna write them – those 39 Oklahoma tribes -- and tell them what is on my heart then, and maybe nothing will come of it – probably nothing will come of it. Ha ha. Since I don’t represent anybody no one can tell me what to say and I have no agenda they can fear – gambling of federal money – there is nothing they can accuse me of.

My ancestors were Chickamaugans who didn’t fear anything. They were white settlers who didn’t fear the Chickamaugans. Dad was a veteran of Pearl Harbor. He said Japanese planes strafed and shot people standing next to him in the chow line that morning. He later went to Europe, and spent VE day in a hospital bed in London with a big hole in his side where his kidney once was. He lived until 1992 with one kidney. An Uncle was killed in Normandy and is buried there. No family member has ever been rich enough to go & visit him. I always hope to one day. A great-great uncle was killed in the Civil War and my g-g-grandpa David B. Brown fought in a unit was used as rearguard action – they were sacrificed (he became POW) so others could retreat from battle of Iuka in Mississippi. That’s the family tradition. How can I be afraid to talk to the local federally recognized tribes? I have to speak, now.

Thank you my Nottaway friend, for your words, so I’d realize that. I have to do what I have to do, cause it’s the right thing and not because anyone encourages me to do it. Then I’m gonna write them about the unenrolled. I came here to yall for advise. I’m gonna mention my apprehensions (without mentionin’ any names of groups) of some groups, BUT also speak of the many LEGITIMATE groups and individuals. They are concerned about “fake tribes” wanting nothing but money and gambling rights – they speak of frustrations with people who write them askin “I just joined your tribe. Where’s my Indian money?” They have to reply “sorry, you didn’t just join us, that was some other group.” And “there is no Indian money. We don’t get any.” They have heard many stories about these things.

I want to ask each of them what they can do, or what they do at present, what there policy is – concerning the masses who are growing and will continue to grow because of blood quantum policy, and the policies of accepting only people who are in certain rolls, knowingly leavin off people not on those documents. They know BIA policies exclude us. But we should have some rights, too. They should understand this. Our numbers will only grow as people marry outside the tribe more and more. They already know this, too.

I don’t feel qualified to apply myself for anything before a federal deadline timeframe. If it is something I can do or ought to do anyhow, and I will do it. I might be qualified for those whose ancestors lived in Oklahoma but never signed up for Dawes – as that’s what my ancestors did. But so far as I know I never heard of such a group in existence.

If anyone has advise of what I should say or shouldn’t say, please let me know. That is why I came here. If there is no advise, I’ll just get started.

thanks everyone

Vance hawkins

[cheronhaka]

To Vance,

I got a reply from Rep Wayne Pettigrew, who is advocating a 50% blood degree to be legally Indian in Oklahoma. I see from his response that you, as well as [all] tribes in Oklahoma are in a quandry.

Please read, especially where hi is proud to be 1/8th Choctaw, but he does not mention [enrolled Choctaw].

For Linda.

PLEASE read the part where he is afraid that Indian Tribes might gain control over all the Indian land in Oklahoma... and then who will pay taxes??? Is this guy DAFT or what? Normally I dont say anything derogatory... however, if the TRUTH FITS! You get my meaning.

========================

What the article you read probably didn't mention is that I am 1/8th Choctaw (my great-grandmother was full blood). I am extremely proud of my Native American heritage, but even more proud of my United States citizenship.

The question which the interviewer asked of me was: If an individual is thirty-one thirty-seconds German and one thirty-second Native American, then is that person German or Indian? I responded that I thought the person was German. The interviewer then told me that I was wrong. I then told the interviewer that the law was wrong and needs to be changed.

I am aware that the federal and not the state government has jurisdiction when it comes to tribal issues. But I certainly believe the issue needs to be re-visited.

For every individual or company that doesn't pay their share of federal, state or local taxes, someone else pays double.

My fear is that if tribal entities are given such advantages that they ultimately gain control of the entire Indian lands in Oklahoma, then who will pay the taxes in Oklahoma to operate the necessary government services for the people.

Apparently, Congress in the past has agreed. In the Congressional Register in the Act of February 27, 1925 (43 Stat. 1008); Act of May 27, 1908 (34 Stat. 312); and Act of January 27, 1933 (47 Stat. 777), Congress restricted trust protections to allottees or holders of headrights who are one-half or more of Indian blood.

My comments express my view that although tribal members may associate with a tribe when they are less than a majority "Indian", that however special privileges granted to tribal members regarding taxation end when the tribal members descendants are no longer a majority (50% or more) Indian.

[CoheeLady]

To Vance & Cheronhaka,
Vance, you don't just represent yourself, as your voice will speak for many just like you, throughout the country. You are not alone. Speak from your heart, soul, when you write to the 39 Tribes. You are more qualified than you imagine, as your ancestor's are speaking to you loud & clear. With your voice they shall be heard & respected.

Cheronhaka, thanks for sharing the letter from Rep. Pettigrew. It is rather silly how he believes that if a person is "more" European than Indian, than it makes them only European, or as he put it German. No one can be related to just one American Indian, as they had parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc.., you get the picture. No matter how many generations marry outside of their Indian ancestry, you can never erase the American Indian ancestry of that family.
Sincerely,
CoheeLady

[vance hawkins]

thanks again

Oklahoma became a state in 1907, but before 1889 all of Oklahoma ws considered "Indian Territory" except 3 small sections. 1. The panhandle that was "accidentally" left out of any state by the map makers. When they drew up state borders they said "ut-oh" -- Kansas border didn't reach to the border of Texas, ha ha -- so they put the panhandle in Oklahoma. This area comprizes only 3 counties, but it is larger than several of the smaller eastern states. 2. When mapping "Indian Territory" western border, they used the North Fork of the Red. When mapping Texas Northern border, they used the Prairie Dog Fork of the Red, leaving Greer, Jackson, Harmon, and part of present day Backham counties out of both Texas and Indian Territory. This was sometimes referred to as "Old Greer County, Tx" but Texas never really wanted it & so it really wasn't organized as a county back then. I know this because it is where I live now. Both these land areas became known as "No mans lands" and were famous in the Old West as outlaw hangouts. 3. the Unasigned lands. Part of Indian territory what was never assigned to any tribe removed here. This is near present day Oklahoma City. The entire rest of the state was supposed to be Indian lands "as long as water flowed and grass grew", the treaties said. Well, someone discovered oil -- so much for treaties.

From 1889 to 1906 the Western half -- where the plains tribes lived -- their lands were "allotted" to their people, and the rest was "settled". Mom's folks came up from Texas and got land in the allotted lands known as "The Big Pasture" which is now in Tillman County, Ok. They are largely German (Congressman's scenario I guess).

In 1905 the remaining tribal lands -- those called "5 Civilized Tribes" with a few other smaller tribes allotted lands in the Eastern half of Oklahoma -- well they could see the handwriting on the wall -- so they petitioned congress to become the state of Sequoyah. Congress said "no", cause they didn't want a state comprised mostly of Indians. They decided to "join" what was called the "Twin Territories" of Oklahoma Territory (Western half created after 1889) and Indian Territory (Eastern half) and Oklahoma entered the Union in 1907 as the 46th state. Only New Mexico, Arizona, Hawaii and Alaska entered the Union later.

But they didn't consider that those tribes would regain a form of autonomy and I can sort of see why they would fear loss of tax revinue if Tribal members didn't have to pay some taxes, that would create a problem for the state. I can see that. Hmmm . . . Thanks for that info. Those periferal issues are the worst . . .

sincerely,

vance hawkins

[vance hawkins]

Below is a copy of a letter I'm gonna send out 39 times, and I'd like to encourage yall to write similar letters to other tribes in other states. If ya wanna copy & paste anything I said you have permission. Other tribes in otehr states are in different situations tho. If ya are gonna write them, I'd appreciate hearin about their replies, and maybe we can brainstorm, addin any replies I get from these 39, too. But maybe they'll just say "get lost", and that won't be necessary -- ha ha http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif. But I have faith they are good folks and will be concerned.

It'll take a few days just to address, lick and post stamps, so if you see anything you don't like that I should change, or have an idea of somethin' I should say that I neglected -- I'm open to suggestions . . . Also by declarin' I speak for me & no one else if I blunder or forget somethin' it won't harm anyone and no one thinks "He hasn't got the right to say that on my behalf!" I once argued with someone sayin they misrepresented CNOs position. It got back to CNO & I got a letter from CNO sayin I didn't have a right to state their position. I explained it and they were friendly to me from that day forward. I'd been misrepresented by somebody with a chip on their shoulder. ha ha.

==========================

Hello. I am writing to you, and to all 39 of the Tribal addresses I have found at http://www.state.ok.us/~oiac/ -- web site of Oklahoma Indian Affairs Commission.

I want yall to know that I am speaking for no organization, but for myself only. Having said this, I know of many thousands of people who have American Indian ancestry but who are not enrolled and cannot be enrolled in any federally recognized tribal organization. Some cannot be enrolled because of low-blood-quantum, and others because their ancestors were not on the rolls used for enumeration of tribal membership. The numbers of such people will only continue to grow, as more enroll tribal members marry outside the tribe lowering blood quantum, and as people with “rumors” of an Indian ancestor have easier access to genealogy records through the internet and are able to do genealogy research from home.

I am not asking for “federal status”, for that imaginary & illusive “Indian money”, or for “gambling rights” – no, I will not miss what I never had. But some non federal tribal organizations, if you see the internet, are openly hostile to federally recognized tribes. I do not want this nor do I approve it. Some of these groups pray on the innocent, people can not be enrolled so some of these groups say “It is the fault of that federally recognized group” – their ancestors and yours argued once 150 years ago, so they left yall off their rolls. They then have made a friend for enrolling this person in their “tribe”, give them a roll number and in some cases issue CDIB cards (one was once issued to me by one of these groups), AND they have turned this person (and all their relatives who can now be enrolled in this “tribe”) against the federally recognized tribe. I imagine most of yall know what I am talkin’ about and have had this experience. Of course there is a 30 to 50 dollar fee to join this “tribe”. Most people who join this “tribe” are innocent and do not realize this is a fraudulent group.

On the other hand, some of these groups are sincere, and know they are descended from groups who were left off of a particular roll, or they know their tribe requires 1/4th blood quantum and they know they are 1/8th blood, but feel a strong pull to retain some sense of cultural connection to the ways of an ancestor. In the case of East Coast tribes, the U. S. government declared them extinct 200 years ago, and they were not extinct. But maybe the HIGHEST blood quantum alive today is 1/8th, or something like that. There is no one alive with more! Or maybe an ancestor got mad once and simply walked away from the tribe, but that person’s descendants want to know more, and to be able to participate. For any of a number of reasons, there are a lot of us mixed blood people who cannot enroll and yet want some form of recognition as who we are.

I am for instance approximately 1/8th Cherokee and cannot enroll, yet there are people who are 1/64th and can enroll. I can show ancestors in Walker & Lawrence Counties Alabama with Cherokee surnames identical to surnames in Brown’s Valley, in NE Alabama, and I can show written records sayin’ Cherokees emigrated there in the 1820s when their homes were being overrun by Whites wanting their lands. I have photos – school photos stating children’s names, row by row, and the 2 Indian boys are the Richey’s, my great Uncles who were born in the Chickasaw Nation in the late 1890s (the school photo is from 1909-1910 school year in Oklahoma). Even Full Bloods might say those boys look full-blood Indian, but in reality I think they were maybe 5/8ths – because they are not on the rolls it will be hard to determine. After leaving Alabama in the 1830s & 40s they went to Arkansas, and after that to Choctaw lands, then to N. Tx., then to Chickasaw Nation where they are in 1900 census. But they are not on Dawes.

The more I look into it, I see possible Creek, Shawnee, Saponi and/or Pamunkey, Choctaw and Chickasaw links to our surnames, too, as the surnames in my family and locations sort of match up. We are not eligible for membership and we know it. I am not asking about that issue here and now. But this is an issue that will not go away and it desperately needs to be resolved, as it will only get worse in the coming years. Ignoring it will make the unenrolled and unenrollable upset at the federally recognized tribes. I am saying this only because I do not want to see this happen, and I already see it. I want yall to know that some of these people are angry at yall, and not the BIA that forces things to be as they are. There are hundreds of thousands of people like me who are not enrolled and cannot be enrolled, and not just a few.

I have heard of two reasons why some states have “State Recognized” tribes. One for the original 13 American Colonies – some of them did have recognized treaties with some tribes that eventually died out, or so people thought. But descendants of these people have come forth declarin’ those treaties were never written off the books. Some of these groups do not meet the BIAs standards for recognition, yet the state still thinks it ought to meet the treaty obligation it once wrote in colonial days, with these people and their descendants. The second was some states – I am thinking of Alabama mostly but perhaps there are others – saw a large groups of people who recognized themselves as “Indian” (mostly Cherokee & Creek) but whose ancestors evaded removal, or returned from Oklahoma to Alabama sometime before Dawes, or for some other reason. If these people left the main group they are not eligible for federal recognition, period. If they were “assimilated” in one generation but their children wanted to go back and be “unassimilated” – they are still not eligible. The state of Alabama with its strong tradition historically of being a “States Rights” advocate which it sometimes used for evil in the past, declared they could recognize some Indian peoples within its borders.

As far as I can tell Oklahoma has never considered State recognized tribes and may never do so. But I am an Oklahoman. I have a copy of a newspaper article mentioning my g-g-grandma and mentions she came to that place in 1841, and that place was Fayetteville, Arkansas. Maybe she or a relative was elsewhere (not Fayetteville, but nearby) before that, as the article mentions “Old Settlers”. That is the earliest documentation we have, at present. So my ancestors were near Oklahoma long ago. A great-aunt died in the Choctaw Nation in 1874, and that is the earliest documentation we have in Oklahoma itself. So I speak to yall as an Oklahoman and as an advocate for the mixed-blood unenrollable people.

Canada has a group it calls “Metis” – a sort of recognition in a minor sense of mixed-blood people. Do an internet search for “Metis” and it will tell you the Canadian government created a law for the Metis. They are largely French/Indian mixed. These people have a legal status in Canada.

The term “wannabe” became popular as a term for us in the 1980s and 90s, and it seems many of the unenrolled and unenrollable have as a result, taken a dislike to many federally recognized tribes. The two have talked about each other, but not to each other.

We are not gonna go away, so I think we should open a dialogue with each other, and not just talking about each other. Again, I am not a spokesman for the unenrolled, I am just one of them. I wanna know if we can come to an understandin’? Will state recognition help? Will creation of an American “Metis” help. Can yall, as individual Tribal Governments, show some small commitment to those who for whatever reason left your tribe (or the tribe of another), are your relatives yet are left in limbo.

Perhaps we can help yall one day, too. For instance, if we are allowed some small status beneath that of recognition legally by the government but still recognized as who we are – through state recognition or through Metis status or through some other mechanism – we will HAVE to clean up our act, “fake tribes” will have to fade into oblivion or meet certain standards to be valid institutions and their stigma of “con artist” will be proven or they will be exonerated. Yall probably realize this is a big problem. It will not go away by itself.

I am writin’ the 39 tribes here in Oklahoma and will be askin’ others to write tribes in their home states. Remember as your kids marry Caucasians or Blacks or even Hispanics (many of whom ARE Indian themselves), sooner or later you’ll have grandkids who are 1/8th blood and if your tribe requires 1/4th, they can not belong. Well, some of us are those grandkids, or we are descended from that Uncle who joined the Army in ’41 and spent 20 years in never returnin’ home. Now his grandkids wanna trace their roots. Well, some of us are those grandkids. Others of us are descended from tribes declared “extinct” once. Still others are descended from those who just argued with tribal leaders and walked away. Some of us are descended from an Indian girl/man who just fell in love with a White/Black/Hispanic/Other man/woman and went to live with them. Think about that.

Thank you very much for your time and your ear.

Vance Hawkins (surnames Hawkins, Allen, Richey, Brown, Wood(s), Dickson (Dixon), Guess(t)/Gist, Looney, links bein researched to Cherokee (Brown, Guess, Looney), Creek (Hawkins, Brown, Allen), Chickasaw (Guest, Brown), Choctaw (Guess, Brown), Shawnee (Guess), Saponi (Richey, Wood, Dick(x)on), Pamunkey (Richey, Wood), & with great uncles who look full-blood on photos taken in 1910 who were born in the Chickasaw Nation, IT)

[Tom]

Hello , Metis people can live on Metic colony land and try to get housing usually not that great, don't pay taxes on metis land but you need to mKE A LIVING AND OTHER THAN THAT DON'T HAVE MUCH TO WORK WITH, NO LEGAL RIGHTS EXIST SUCH AS TREATY RIGHT S ETC, BUT THINGS ARE LOOKING BETTER, BUT IT IS VERY SLOW AND NO ONE IS DOING REALLY THAT GREAT tOM.

[vance hawkins]

howdy Tom --

Where is Metic Colony? Thanks. I don't know much more than what I read online about the "Metis" -- but I think they have more of a legal status than we do in the U.S.

My purpose is really realistic. They may read this and toss it in the trash can half way through. I don't think I can really change anything, but I have a desire to try anyhow. I'm just wantin' to plant seeds in the minds of these 39 tribal chiefs, so when someone comes along later, with a better idea, it might germinate, at that time.

Or maybe one of the 39 will listen some now. Thirty-nine is a large enough number for a random generator to create an anomaly at least once, maybe twice -- http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif -- Or maybe someone has already planted that seed, so this will be the first rain after that, and they'll start germinatin' now rather than later.

I'm thinkin of the "parable of the sower" in the Bible, or the sayin' "one man plants, another waters, but it is God that provides the increase" -- but I'm thinkin' along the lines of any change that occurs, not just Biblical. It always takes time. If I can't get a big juicy tomato, if the ground is too poor or it doesn't rain or the weather too hot in July -- then I'll plant Roma's or Cherry tomatoes (I have to do that here in SW Ok, by the way http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif)and they'll give me tomatos.

All I'm thinkin' is to take back a place in the circle -- but for now that means any little thing is a beginnin'.

Maybe a generation later they can go for bigger things.

I'm also placin' family photos so they can see who we are, and they'll know we are real.

I wanna thank yall very much, but time for suggestions is over. It's all printed up and ready to go.

vance

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 09-20-2002).]

[Linda]

Does the heavy concentration of Indians in Oklahoma have something to do with the prejudice against "Okies" at one point in time, do you think?

[vance hawkins]

I really don't know.

I have heard that in the great Depression of the 1930s hordes of Oklahomans went to California, and the Californians coined the term "Okie" as a derogatory term for these penniless emigrants. They weren't wanted.

I have also been told that there are more Cherokees in California than there are in Oklahoma -- so many emigrants to California in those days were also Indian. But I just don't know if that played a part or not.

Oklahomans have always been proud of our Indian heritage. But once in a while someone says something nasty and it jolts you back into reality, and you realize not everyone is proud of it.

vance hawkins

[vance hawkins]

I received my first reply in the mail to my mailings to the 39 tribes, from the Chickasaw.

Basically they said they realized many Chickasaw are not eligible for tribal membership, and said they'd remember my letter if that situation ever changed.

Maybe they replied first because I mentioned to them my ancestors lived in the Chickasaw Nation, I showed them photographs, and have census records of them living there.

The generic letter above, I edited slightly, from tribe to tribe, if I had some specific tie to them.

It was polite yet not very concerned response, but it came from the elected Principle Chief of the Chickasaw, so that was somethin' you'd expect from a politician. http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif ha ha. But that is understandable. I am honored that he chose to responded personally.

All I expected was to just put the issue of the unenrolled before these 39 Federally Recognized Tribes. I don't expect miracles, just recognition on a personal one on one basis, and to get them to thinking about what to do about and/or for us. I don't think I can hope for anything more than that.

I'd like to encourage anyone else who wanted to, to write federal tribes in your own geographic area, just to put the issue before them.

vance hawkins

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 10-22-2002).]

[Tom]

Sorry "Metic colony was a type "O" it should read "Metis" colony