Committee on Indian Affairs

[collins]

On Thursday April 24th the Senate Committe on Indian Affairs meets to discuss "Improving the Federal Acknowledgment Process".
If you have any interest at all in voicing your concerns, issues, objections, process changes, etc. you may want to send them a letter, email, or phone them. Here is the information for you to do so,

Committee on Indian Affairs
United States Senate
838 Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: (202) 224-2251
comments@indian.senate.gov


http://indian.senate.gov/public/

If you have ever questioned the process, what the criteria are for recognition, or have other concerns relating to our peoples acknowledgment as Saponi the information above would probably be a great place to raise your voice and be heard.

May our ancestors voices be heard.

[Jack Adkins]

I just sent off my email. Who else is on board with this?

[Jack Adkins]

If anyone is interested, this is the email I sent.

To whom It May Concern,

It is my understanding that your agency is having a committee meeting to study Improving the Federal Acknowledgment Process, making it less difficult to be recognized as an "Official Tribe" by the United States government. I wish to take a few moments of your time to express my thoughts on this matter.

First of all, my ancestors in just about every branch of my family says they were Native American. Some say they were Cherokee and others are not exactly sure of the tribe or our elders have passed on without making mention of what tribe. My maternal Grandmother swore she lived on a reservation for a brief time in her youth with her grandmother after the death of her mother. We do not know what reservation she was talking about since as youngsters we just accepted my Grandmothers word and forgot to ask for details. My (paternal) Great Grandfather was known to the family as a Cherokee Indian and was so dark complected that the clerk who filled out his enlistment papers in the 38th VA Infantry, felt the need to document it.

This segment from Ancestry.com sums it up quite well:

"Try to remember that the scholars tell us that only 20%-30% of the Native people living at the time these rolls were done ever acknowledged the fact that they were Indian (on paper) and registered with the government. The rest simply chose to accept the inevitable and gradually blend in with the dominant society. Can we blame them given the social and legal restrictions placed on them if they admitted to being Indian? These were times where in most states they could not own property, had to have a (white) legal guardian to do any sort of business, were not permitted to attend school, could not vote, and other penalties placed on them solely because of their race. And we wonder why our grandparents were reluctant to discuss their Native American heritage. I've heard stories about elders who were still afraid in the 1950's and 60's of being taken from their families and sent to Oklahoma. It wasn't until the latter part of the 19th century with the case of Ponca Chief Standing Bear vs. The United States that the courts finally admitted that Native American people were indeed human beings! There are tens of thousands of "lost birds" out there, those whose parents and grandparents were separated from the flock."

That being said; those of us who have now come along and have grown up without that stigma that our fore bearers felt, have become very interested in connecting with our Native American roots. With the advent of the internet comes greater leaps and bounds in genealogy research. In so doing, many of us have come into contact with like minded individuals who more often than not are relatives. We share common roots and experiences growing up with a Native American family history albeit undocumented. We have all discussed forming back into tribes, groups, or associations for lack of a better description. On of the many important aspects of this re-gathering is religious practices. One of the issues we face is by not being able to qualify as a card carrying member of a federally recognized tribe is we cannot own prayers feathers for ceremonies. What this ends up doing is denying certain groups or individuals the right to practice their religion while other groups or individuals can. This goes against the principle of religious freedom and the 1978 American Indian Freedom of Religion Act. I would like to see the requirements eased up some. After all, what is it going to hurt if more people are able to embrace their ethnic heritage? It seems like every ethnic group in the US has been encouraged to celebrate their heritage with the exception of the native population at large.

Also, of the 12 state recognized tribes in VA not one of them is federally recognized. I think this is a shame. Virginia's native peoples were the first to greet the colonists as they came ashore and the first to suffer the effects of contact with the settlers. They above all, deserve federal recognition.
Please help to rectify this situation that alienates so many of the descendents of America's first people.

Thank you.

Jack Adkins

[beeleaf]

That's a good letter, but how did you come up with 12 state recognized tribes in VA?

[Jack Adkins]

I thought I just read there was 12 that had filed a letter of intent with the BIA but, know that you mention it the number 5 comes to mind. I don't know, maybe I was having a senior moment.

[beeleaf]

Hehe. Five is a nice number, but there are 8. ;~)


http://indians.vipnet.org/tribes.cfm

[Jack Adkins]

Oh well, If you can't dazzle `em with brilliance ,then baffle `em with BS.

(I think your avatar is laughing at me.)

[yellow woman]

Thats okay Jack. I understand that to many x - file reruns will do the same thing too you. :)]

[Ga-Nc Collins]

Good letter Jack :)

Yea it's like a 25,000 dollar fine for having Eagle feathers.

You know what I find the most messed up though....there is no other race in the world which has to be federally recognized before they can call their self the race they are lol

What we should do is make every other race in the USA to go and have to prove their race thru documents and then have to have them wait 50-100 years to be recognized as the race they are lol

African Americans do not have do a single thing to call their self African....No Mexican has to do a single thing to call their self Mexican.....whites do not have do a single thing to call their self european.......arabs...chinesse....japanesse....et c etc etc

But now Native American.....it's like....oohhh your native american well let me see your Cdib card lol ....or...oh your native american well what federally recognized tribe are you on the roll with lol

[Ga-Nc Collins]

I was reading this on the Cdib......and I was wondering if this means I can get a CDIB card if I show that I had Catawba Ancestors...which just so happens is a Federally recognized tribe? What you think Jack? Also..now I think about it alittle more....does this mean that if our ancestors was not on a roll then we can't use them....or can we instead use Official court records and such which just state our ancestors was native american?


A Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood or Certificate of Degree of Alaska Native Blood (both abbreviated CDIB) is an official U.S. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) document that certifies an individual possesses a specific degree of Indian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_in_the_United_States) blood of a federally recognized Indian tribe, band, nation, pueblo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueblo), village, or community. They are issued by the Bureau of Indian Affairs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bureau_of_Indian_Affairs) after the applicant supplies a completed genealogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy) with supporting legal documents such as birth certificates, showing their descent, through one or both birth parents, from an enrolled Indian or an Indian listed in a base roll such as the Dawes Rolls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Rolls). Blood degree cannot be obtained through adoptive parents. The blood degree on previously issued CDIB's or on the base rolls in the filer's ancestry are used to determine the filer's blood degree (unless they challenge them as inaccurate). Information collected for the filing is held confidential by privacy laws.
A CDIB can show only the blood degree of one tribe or the total blood degree from all tribes in the filer's ancestry. Some tribes require a specific minimum degree of tribal ancestry for membership, which might require the first type of certificate, while some federal benefits programs require a minimum total Indian blood degree so an individual might require the second type of certificate to qualify. For example, the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Band_of_Cherokee_Indians) requires at least 1/16th degree of Eastern Cherokee blood for tribal membership, the Bureau of Indian Affairs' "Higher ED grant" for college expenses requires a 1/4 degree mininum.
A Certificate Degree of Indian Blood does not establish membership in a tribe. Tribal membership is determined by tribal laws and may or may not require a CDIB or may require a separate tribal determination of ancestry or blood degree.
The CDIB is controversial, both from a race politics perspective, in general, and in particular, because non-federally recognized tribes are not eligible for the card nor for the benefits which require one. Some groups such as the Freedman, descendants of black slaves who may be eligible for tribal membership are often not eligible for a CDIB because they are not Indian by blood or their degree of blood was not recorded in the base rolls (where Freedman was used instead of stating a degree).

[Ga-Nc Collins]

I actually have stuff from the Guion miller rolls....This is what one of my cousins posted on Ancestry.com...but I have access to the Actual application letter.

::My name is Nancy Holifield (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/) I am 57 years old I live in cobb county (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/) Ga (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/). I claim my indian descent through my father.My mother is a white woman.My father claimed the indian.My grandfathers name was Drury (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/) Dobbins (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/) that was my fathers name also.My husband is a white man.My father was born and raised in Rutherford county (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/) NC.He died in 1892 he was 65.He would be 81.My grandfather was born in Virginia (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/).He died in Rutherford (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/) NC.1851 or 1852.Dont know when he left Virgina. My great grandfather was Jesse Dobbins (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/).People think I am a white woman in my community.W.S. is my brother he is married to a white woman. It has her X
She could not read or write.This is her enrollment letter to the Cherokee Nation.
I study Native American geneology I have Charlie and Spears (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/) indian names and Jims. the Spears (http://www.saponitown.com/forum/) were indian also.But they were in no need of the 50.00 a year indian payment.::

http://boards.ancestry.ca/surnames.dobbins/53.234.235.249.250.252/mb.ashx

[collins]

Very good letter Jack. I sent mine off two weeks back. It was very long letter and I'll attempt to post it here. CDIB is joke, it has no basis in logic or scientific fact and is perpetuated by federally recognized tribes.

__________________________________________________ ______

Saponi Commentary on Tribal Recognition
The current government and tribal systems in place for Federal recognition of Native American tribes is inadequate, illogical, and destructive. The policies practiced, both in the past and present, destroy Native American Indian communities and families via blood quantification, tribal sovereignty, and paradoxical definitions.
Blood quantification for race is an illogical and unscientific method of determining tribal affiliation. Looking at what genetics show us in heredity, it can be deduced that a person does not necessarily express fifty percent of their DNA from each parent exclusively. This is due to “variability arising from independent assortment”, which creates, “new gene combinations”. Genes are not, “. . . parceled out in mathematically precise combinations”. (Marieb 1148-1149) The policy of blood-quantum can therefore be shown as a way to extinguish Native claims to tribal status and bolster racial policies hidden within tribal sovereignty issues. This policy specifically targets mixed blood Native American Indians and is a way to restrict access, recognition, and membership. Katel poignantly points out that tribes are no longer obligated to use blood-quantum established in 1932 “. . . by the Indian Affairs Commission”, but that it is endemic in tribal constitutions. (Katel 379)
The Saponi tribe of the Siouan Nations came from the Ohio River valley. They belonged to the Yesah, Santee linguistic branch of Siouan speakers, which migrated eastwardly between 1100 and 1200 A.D. Some Siouan groups migrated west to the Great Plains, some remained in the Ohio River Valley, and some settled into the Piedmont regions of the Appalachian Mountains. It is thought that the great wars between the Northern tribes, Iroquois and Algonquians, and the Southern tribes, the Muskogee, sandwiched and pushed large groups of the Siouan eastward into the forest where territory was claimed as common grounds for all tribes. (Mooney 29)
The Saponi, Tutelo, Occaneechi, Nahyssan, Moneton, Monacan, and Manahoac make up the Tutelo linguistic division and Monacan Confederacy of tribes. During the time of colonization, beginning in 1607, most Native American Indians, in the eastern and northern forests, where evolving confederacies to strengthen and share in protection and resources. One key alliance was the Monacan Confederacy. The Monacan tribe held control of the eastern regions’ copper mines. The Powhatan, the Cherokee, and the Erie were dependent upon the Monacan for trade in copper. Powhatan took the opportunity to establish a treaty with the English in order to break the copper monopoly of the Monacans. It is perhaps the only reason that the English were able to establish Jamestown. (Hantman 660-676)
The Catawba are another Siouan linguistic division directly related to the Tutelo division. The Catawba and Monacan were important strategically for the colonies. The Monacan Confederacy was used to buffer the colonies on the north against the Iroquois and was a port of entry to the South. The Catawba held the Southern trade routes of the Occaneechi Trading Path and buffered against the tribes to the south and west, such as the Cherokee and Creek, and helping to confederate other Siouan tribes to act as buffer nations on the early frontier often mustering warriors to attack interior Indians for the colonial government. (Merrell 1-16)
The records from the Colonial Era into the Revolution Era began to take shape in the 1740’s and 50’s. We can pick up certain family groups in the census and land records of the time. The Collins family is one such family that figures into the history of the Saponi. In 1742, Orange county, VA, Saponi men were arrested for utilizing a slash and burn agricultural technique used to clear planting grounds and create meadows for deer and turkey to browse. The charge was made that these Saponi men were terrifying a colonial named Lawrence Strouther. (Orange County, VA 309) Two of the men brought into court were John Collins and John Collins, Jr. It is still controversial in some quarters, however the John Collins in the Orange county court case and the one later in Grayson County, VA, son of Old Thomas Collins and 1st cousin to Vardy Collins of Newman’s Ridge, son of William Collins brother to Old Thomas, are believed to be the same people. DNA testing has proven a male direct line, linking the John Collins and Vardy Collins lines. These are two separate labs scientifically coming to the same results; Relative Genetics: Collins DNA Project and Family Tree DNA: The Core Melungeon DNA Project. (Jeskie and Family Tree DNA) Having traced out all the other John Collins lines in the records of the time, I can only come to the same conclusions.

[collins]

Moving forward from genealogical data (i.e. census), land records, court records, military records, church records, and family oral tradition; we can logically deduce the correlative heritage between the Collins family and the Saponi. Known under several racial labels, this family migrated as needs arose; doing so for the sake of survival. Any group of people will migrate to gain employment, economic opportunity, to escape racial prejudice, or to escape untenable laws which restrict normal living. The Collins family is a well researched break away band of the Saponi tribe. In a letter to a Mrs. Stallard of Coeburn, VA, Robert K. Thomas, a well known Cherokee field ethnographer, states that, “As far as I can determine, all the Collins of Northeastern Tennessee, Southwestern Virginia, and Eastern Kentucky are descendants of one household of Collins who resided in Orange County, N.C. in 1760; a family of Saponi Indians. I know that it must be mind boggling to imagine that the thousands of Collins in your area are all descended from just one household, but such is the case. Further, this is not too amazing as it sounds its common among pre-Revolutionary American families”. (Thomas)
Over the course of time the Collins family migrated out in several directions. The contacts in this family remain, to the present, through family reunions, letters, email, family web-pages and family associations. The ability to maintain Indian identity became a matter of family tradition and not one of criteria and reservation living. The Salyersville Indians are a part of the Collins story as the family migrated westwards. Dr. Richard Allen Carlson states, “Salyersville Indian identity is the product of cumulative historical actions guided by specific socio-cultural processes that subvert notions regarding race, class, ethnicity, religiosity, or political affiliation”. (Carlson 3) He continues on explaining that the community standard became more complex as the tribe filtered out into the country side, integrating and assimilating into white society, however, keeping a form of community through strong family ties and traditions.
Defining a community may not seem like a difficult task when utilizing standard and simple dictionary terms. However, some communities are diverse, complex, and are not easily defined under government policies. Community may be classed into definitions that are empirical and abstract. The meaning of community may change between these two polar opposites when government policy conflicts or agrees with the community in question.
“Community”, as defined by The American Heritage College Dictionary, is “A group of people living in the same locality and under the same government . . . A group or class having common interests”. Contrast Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, which states, “a group of people with a common characteristic or interest, living together within a larger society . . . a body of persons or nations having a common history or common social, economic, and political interest”.
The U.S. government policy that defines Native American communities uses definitions such as, “A group of people living in the same locality and under the same government”. (The American Heritage College Dictionary) In this definition a community is defined by the geographic location and further qualified through a common governing body.
In the historical context, the Saponi never had a specific micro-geographic location or a micro-political body operating autonomously. It would be more appropriate to maintain that the Saponi shared a regional geo-political range they themselves called Amanishuck and moved around within those bounds as the need or inclination arose. Saponi government was decentralized. Decisions were made on the basis of consensus by the family, clan, tribe, and even the confederacy to which the tribe belonged. The complexity this presents shows the basic need for context in understanding how and why the Saponi and all descendent groups should be recognized. Moving through time and circumstance, the Saponi would find their self removed from their historic region and into the regions of other tribes. Whether farther along South, East, or West, by migrating out and joining surrounding tribes, they were following a more abstract pattern of community. Such an abstraction would be like the one found in Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary as “a group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society”.

[collins]

Communities can be separated by geography and still maintain a, “common interest”, preserving cultural heritage. (The American Heritage College Dictionary) In this manner they have not ceased to be a community by separate geographic locations. They have maintained their sense of community in an abstract manner and not the empirical one the U.S. government decides to impose over a mobile population. Often during the Colonial Era, and into the 1800’s, Native American tribes became so decimated by hostilities that a tribe would break apart into bands or family groups. Migrating to safe havens, they would wait until they could either return or decide to move completely out of the theater of violence. In some cases these groups or bands dispersed into and with the settler communities that sprang up. Anthropologists use the terms etic and emic to help further define a community. The etic view would be that which arises from outside communities. The emic view would be that which arises from within the community; its self view. While self determination is a right all Americans enjoy, the Salyersville Indian community emically identified themselves as a community of Native Americans as others outside the community etically defined them as such. The Salyersville community and the outside community had the same definition, but the governments’ definition differs enough to exclude, thus failing the added criterion of “continuous community” as stated in 25 CFR 83.7: Procedures for Establishing that an American Indian Group exists as an Indian Tribe. (25 USCS 83.7, 2008)
When a tribe in modern times seeks to gain recognition with the U.S. government, the petitioning tribe must show an empirical standard of community continuity. This standard, although correct by definition, may not be the best method for determining tribal status. The reversal of the dispossession of Native American tribes can only occur when the definition of community is understood from the prospective of situational and historical contexts. The stern deductive logic of community definition used by the U.S. government, therefore, loses its saliency and tumultuously splits families into factions. These families very often live in separate states or perhaps across the continent.
The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma (west), and the Eastern Cherokee of North Carolina, although split by geography half a continent away from one another, never lost their community from the distance imposed upon them. They maintained familial and cultural ties that spanned the distance and continue to make their Nations one community, “a body of persons or nations having a common history or common social, economic, and political interests”. (Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary) The government policies of the past and the present define community in such an empirical way that it discounts the historical context and present thinking of many Native American communities.
Tribal sovereignty, in the United States, is paradoxical in that Native American Indian tribes exist in their sovereignty as dependents of the federal government. Their sovereignty is limited by the policies of recognition, funding, and legislative whim. The use of sovereignty rights are often denied when substantive issues are being addressed as to the care and welfare of the tribal members. Used as a weapon to deny the legitimate birthright of descendents that may fall outside of the criteria, replete with paradoxical definitions of community, blood quantum, or geographic bias; tribal inner circles in the leadership often continue the government bias in order to secure monetary gains or press their personal agendas. Russel L. Barsh and James Youngblood Henderson in their book “The Road” show my assessment to be correct on membership of tribes and the way that membership was handled traditionally. They also agree that the U.S. governments’ policies influenced the uses of blood-quantum by tribal governments and impressing “. . . itself on the ideology of tribalists.” These authors also go on to state that “tribalists prefer a repressed tribal society . . . They do what they can to perpetuate reservations and the laws that maintain them . . . also unavoidably the racial theories that justify the laws.” (Barsh and Henderson 244-245)
These actions cleave Native communities and families creating rifts that can last generations. The Saponi along with other Southeastern Siouan tribes are good examples of denial to recognize based on erroneous and fallacious government policies. Colonial, state, and federal documents can clearly show proof and evidence of the valid claims of these tribes and descendents. Instead of trying to understand the historical context of survival within these communities; the government suppresses context in favor of dogmatic criteria. This criterion has its basis in the Allotment Act and the Indian Reorganization Act, both utilizing as their basis, forced enrollments and round-ups during the removal period. They do not take into account the tribes that were scattered into the country prior to the Revolution, colonial treaties, Citizen Indians, those who escaped the trail, and the systematic paper genocide that became policy for smaller scattered tribes in the Southeast.
Peter Katel in his work American Indians speaks about the issues of self-determination and how “Red Power”, the activism effort to secure Native American rights, directly impacted the governments’ policies. He states, “Amid the surging Indian activism, the federal government was trying to make up for the past by encouraging tribal self-determination. In 1975, Congress passed the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act, which channeled federal contracts and grants directly to tribes, reducing the BIA role and effectively putting Indian communities in direct charge of schools, health, housing and other programs”. Was this a dodge by the government in effect abrogating treaty responsibility? In opting out and limiting government interference did the government actually make the system worse? Katel goes on to illustrate the supposed sincere approach of Washington stating, “And to assure Indians that the era of sudden reversals in federal policy had ended, the House in 1988 passed a resolution reaffirming the “constitutionally recognized government-to-government relationship with Indian tribes.” Separate legislation set up a “self-governance demonstration project” in which eligible tribes would sign “compacts” to run their own governments with block grants from the federal government. By 1993, 28 tribes had negotiated compacts with the Interior Department. And in 1994, President Bill Clinton signed legislation that made self-governance a permanent option”. (Katel 361-384) By taking out supervision the government allowed corruption to take control fostering competition and rivalry within the Native communities.
Shawn Zeller, in CQ Weekly, shows a prime example in the dangers of power afforded to out of control leadership. The tribal membership of the Cherokee became an issue when the Nation kicked off the Freedman from their rolls. In reaction to this break in treaty terms, the U.S. government began to have hearings concerning the legality of this act and possible economic sanctions. Zeller states, “Cherokee Chief Chad Smith has made several trips to Capitol Hill this year to lobby against any such legislation. He has visited more than 60 offices, arguing that Congress has no cause for tampering with tribal sovereignty. “One of the foundations of tribal sovereign government is that we have the right to decide on our own citizenship,” says Cherokee spokesman Mike Miller”. (Zeller 3524) Perhaps the sovereignty rights issue and the policies of the U.S. government created the problems seen in both the Cherokee and Seminole cases in which a minority in the tribal government decides to cut off large groups of Native Americans in favor of monetary gains. In giving the right to define tribal membership, the pitfall of denial for Native Americans will ultimately fall into the hands of unscrupulous Native leaders setting up a money machine for self interests. This leaves the fate of the many in the hands of a few and underscores the need for oversight and basic defining terms that are fair and true to the heritage.
It is easier for the government to set up a system, where in, over the course of three or four generations, a people become bred out by way of marriages to outsiders of the community. It is mathematically impossible for a people to maintain full blood status when the majority of tribal people are mixed bloods. Further, why waste time, money, and man power to keep the system running when you can make it look politically correct by placing the people in question at the head of the process. Tribal sovereignty and programs implemented to allow Native Americans to “run their own affairs” become an escape from responsibility while continuing the process of slow genocide. Like the Jews in the concentration camps, those which became supervisors and guards to their annihilation, the Native American privileged get to aid the state in wiping themselves out. Being fooled that they are participating in implementation of reforms, the only real reform is that the state is allowing the complicity of these privileged few to maintain the blood-quantum rule and make a mockery of Native history in paradoxical criteria. If you can whittle a persons’ blood-quantum down past one sixty fourth you can re-label them as non-Natives, and thusly refuse services, restrict enrollment, and make the slice of economic entitlements larger for those left. In some cases this can apply without the blood-quantum rules in the policy that allows tribes to set their own standards for enrollment which often exclude the majority of the tribe.

[collins]

Joane Nagels’ work, American Indian Ethnic Renewal, speaks about outspoken critics of blood-quantum and tribal sovereignty. M.A. Jaimes, in regards to blood-quantum and the American Indian Arts and Crafts Act, states that this is a “contemporary reassertion of eugenics principles”. Nagel shows that Jack D. Forbes believes it to be an “intrusion of authorities into the ethnic designation process a violation of “the human right of ethnic self-identification”. Forbes goes on to state that the authorities should not infringe upon this basic right. Nagel follows up by saying, blood-quantum “when applied by the Federal government . . . tends to heighten tension among Native Americans, creating disunity and suspicion”. (Nagel 244)
Community must have real meaning whether we use its empirical definition or its abstraction. The government definition is contrary to the policies of self determination and is exclusionary to a people which it governs through the use of U.S. Code Title 25. There are portions which are contradictory with other government agency definitions. Contradictions between the Office of Federal Acknowledgments’ definitions and the U.S. Code Title 25 would be a good example. These paradoxes can be found in U.S. Code: Title 25 450b: Definitions, Part A: Indian Self Determination, and 25 CFR 83.7: Procedures for Establishing that an American Indian Group exists as an Indian Tribe. (25 USCS 83.7, 25 USCS 450b, and Part A, 2008)
The definitions of community change congruently with government policy creating a definition paradox. In order to fairly assess tribal continuity the government must first utilize a more stable use of terms that incorporate context, both historical and practical. These definitions must not encumber or dismantle the communities they seek to define or acknowledge. To do so would be a logical fallacy and a further injustice. The most logical definition of community takes all definitions into account and utilizes them based on context and surrounding data. This is how the English language, and community itself, works, evolves, and survives posterity. Community is a grouping of people, animals, objects, environments, and a combination of these, which form relationships, one with the other, either in an empirical form or an abstract form giving definition to, or insight about, their classification.
Currently there are no references in published Native American histories that reflect the true scope of Saponi heritage. Many reference the tribe as a side note relegating them to be classified as an extinct tribe of the Southeast. Factually, this is a misnomer and caused by the laziness of historians to do the homework necessary in telling the Southeastern Siouan tribal history. Most references state that the Saponi moved north with the Tutelo to join the Six Nations. In actuality part of the Saponi left prior to the Tutelo movement north, and it was the Tutelo alone whom joined the Six Nations.
The Collins Saponi went west into North Carolina along the Yadkin and New Rivers and from there into Kentucky, Tennessee, Indiana, Missouri and Texas. Some Saponi stayed in the areas they had been in, moving around in familiar localities. Some of the Saponi went to the Catawba in South Carolina before making their way back up north and from thence outward into the various communities. These family groups can be traced through the official records residing in what would later be called tri-racial communities. The Occaneechi, the High Plains Sappony, and the Haliwa are Saponi groups that have state recognition. Of these, the High Plains Sappony is the group that remains in the actual historic area that the Saponi were commonly found during some of the first exploration of the interior. The Ohio Saponi, the Missouri Saponi, Saponi Descendents Association, Eastern Siouan Descendents Association, and the Fort Christanna Saponi-Occoneechee Indians are among those Saponi people that have been chewed up and spat out by the recognition process.
Although these groups do not fit the governments’ faulty criteria, they never the less have the proof in genealogy, DNA, and historical records to back their claims. There are close kinships between the Lumbee/Chowan, Waccamaw Siouan, Salyersville Indian community, Carmel Indian community, Peedee tribe, and a litany of survival descendents that make up what have come to be known as tri-racial isolate communities like the Melungeons, Brass Ankles, and the Ramapo Mountain People. Regardless of predominant phonotypical appearances, whether African, Indian, or Caucasian, these groups embrace their heritage and maintain their Indian identity in the face of skeptics and the recognition machine.
Often many of the Saponi descendents have been played one against the other in a vicious cycle of the legitimacy game, played all too well by government and tribal agencies. Most of these people only seek to be recognized as the descendents of the Saponi, or other Southeastern Siouan tribes, and perhaps to seek grants for school, health care, and revitalization programs to reinforce their beleaguered cultural heritage. With the procession of time, all the tribes in the United States will, under the current system, face the same fate that the Saponi faced long ago. The Saponi lost their reservation in the middle of the 1700’s prior to the American Revolution. Once the land base was taken away, and the re-labeling efforts began, the historical notation of the Saponi became a footnote in the history books of America. Blood-quantum, will in time, take every tribe down the same path. What happens to one strand of the spider’s web will affect the entire web. When enough strands have been destroyed the whole web will collapse. The government policies, federal or in many cases tribal, in both the past and present, seek to destroy the Native American community. Tribal sovereignty becomes a red-herring in the survival of Native American Indians and creates an atmosphere of pernicious competition. Through racial relabeling, equivocation, blood quantum, and recognition criteria, which is out of context; the federal government is compliant with cultural genocide. The process for recognition is inadequate in serving the communities in question and alienates families.

[collins]

Works Cited
Barsh, Russel Lawrence, and James Youngblood Henderson. “The Road: Indian Tribes and Political Liberty.” Berkeley: University of California Press, 1980
Carlson, Richard Allen, Jr. “Who’s Your People?: Cumulative Identity Among the
Salyersville Indian Population of Kentucky’s Appalachia and the Midwest Muckfields, 1677-2000, Vol. I.” Diss. Michigan State University, 2003.
“Community.” Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary. 11th ed. 2003.
“Community.” The American Heritage College Dictionary. 4th college ed. 2007.
Family Tree DNA. Genealogy by Genetics, Ltd. The Core Melungeon DNA Project. 2001. 7 April 2008 <http://www.familytreedna.com/public/coremelungeon/>.
Hantman, Jeffrey L. “Between Powhatan and Quirank: Reconstructing Monacan Culture and History in the Context of Jamestown.” American Anthropologist 92 (1990): 660-676
Jeskie, Emily. Letter to the author. 23 August 2007
Katel, Peter. “American Indians.” CQ Researcher, 16, 2006: 361-384.
Marieb, Elaine N., and Katja Hoehn. Human Anatomy & Physiology. 7th ed. San Francisco: Pearson, 2007: 1148-1149.
Merrell, James H. “The Catawbas.” Indians of North America. Ed. Frank W. Porter. Vol. 7. Philadelphia: Chelsea House Publishers, 1989. 1-16.
Nagel, Joane. “American Indian Ethnic Renewal: Red Power and the Resurgence of Identity and Culture.” New York: Oxford University, 1996.
Orange County, VA. Order Book 3. 1741-1743. 309. Virginia State Archive. Orange County, VA Microfilm Reel 31, 309.
Zeller, Shawn. “Tribal Wrongs?: The Cherokee Raise Racial Ruckus on the Hill.” CQ Weekly 65 (2007): 3524.

[beeleaf]

The Collins family is a well researched break away band of the Saponi tribe. In a letter to a Mrs. Stallard of Coeburn, VA, Robert K. Thomas, a well known Cherokee field ethnographer, states that, “As far as I can determine, all the Collins of Northeastern Tennessee, Southwestern Virginia, and Eastern Kentucky are descendants of one household of Collins who resided in Orange County, N.C. in 1760; a family of Saponi Indians. I know that it must be mind boggling to imagine that the thousands of Collins in your area are all descended from just one household, but such is the case. Further, this is not too amazing as it sounds its common among pre-Revolutionary American families”. (Thomas)

Been awhile since last reading that letter. Thanks for the refresher. I wonder how certain he was of using the word "all". There is a Collins researcher who has written a book (which includes my family) who seems to disagree. She says they were English, but married some Indian women. She did not know there were Collins in Orange County NC or Pittsylvania CO, VA before her family arrived in Pittsylvania Co, so am not sure what to make of it.

[Jack Adkins]

I would like to see that become a speech in front of Congress.

[Jack Adkins]

A fellow at the Moon Ceremony weekend before last had a shirt that showed a sillouette of a native american and beside it facing in the opposite direction was a sillouette of what looked liked a colonist...the caption read, "I'm half white but, I can't prove it."

[collins]

Thanks for the compliment Jack, hope I get an A on that in my English Comp I class. It was my final research paper and as I was writing it I discovered the senate committee and figured, well I'm mad as hell about it all so why not voice it with my essay as a letter.

Beeleaf: quote,"Been awhile since last reading that letter. Thanks for the refresher. I wonder how certain he was of using the word "all". There is a Collins researcher who has written a book (which includes my family) who seems to disagree. She says they were English, but married some Indian women. She did not know there were Collins in Orange County NC or Pittsylvania CO, VA before her family arrived in Pittsylvania Co, so am not sure what to make of it."

I know about some in the Collins family that flat out refuse to believe that the Collins were Indian. They argue the wrong piont. They have it stuck in their head that we couldn't have been Indian before a certain piont. I disagree with that assessment. I also disagree with the Pennsylvania material for an orgin of our Collins. There is just no proof of it for my line of Collinses and DNA has prooven the link between Old Thomas and John Collins father to my David Collins of 1750 and we know that John,William, and Samuel Collins were brothers and sons of Old Thomas.

The information that often is cited that the Collins were purley English goes back to the incorrect line of John Collins of Bertie County, N.C. Martha Dempsy IS NOT David Collins of 1750's mother.

See the following information Bill Childs provides to follow.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Childs
Most of these questions have been answered and are posted on saponitown.
There are two David Collins and people have copied obviously contradictory information.
The "other one" was born abt. 1758 Bertie Co., NC, and is still there in 1790, 1800 and 1810 census records. Bertie Co is in eastern NC.
His parents are Joseph Collins (1790 & 1800 Bertie Co Census), b.1726 Bertie NC, d. 1802 Bertie NC who m'd Elizabeth Bennett Penny. This Joseph left a Will in Bertie, writted 2 June 1799, naming his children.
Joseph Collins's parents are purported to be John Collins, b.1690 Nansemond Va, d. 1 Feb 1751/2 Bertie NC who m'd Martha Dempsey. This line is white on all records.
At the time this Collins family line is documented to be in Bertie Co., NC, the group comprising David Collins, b.1750, is documented as being in western Virginia and later in western NC - a long way from Bertie Co.

While I like to keep an open mind, the reference to a David Collins, b.1750 in "Grayson Co., Va" with a mother Martha Dempsey is factually in error on a number of accounts, having been confused with the David Collins of Bertie Co., NC, whose grandmother is purported to be Martha Dempsey.

1) Grayson didn't exist until 1793 when it was created from Wythe Co., Va.

2) The David Collins, b.1750, is listed on the 1790 Wilkes Co., NC census along with Ambrose, George, Hardy (Vardy?), Martin and Valentine Collins as well as Joel, Archibald, Ezekiel, Jordan & Andrew Gibson and Jo. Nicols, Jesse Bolin (and Henry Hardin). This, at the same time the "other one" is listed on the Bertie Co census.

3) Rowan County North Carolina Marriage Bonds:
1 Oct 1772. David Collins and Thompsey Posting.
Bondsmen: Henry Zeody, Alex Brown.

4) Who are the parents of David, b.1750? John Collins the Saponi (1742 Orange Co., Va Court Records) is an excellent candidate but as they were "living as Indians in Virginia" having "stolen" the Collins surname for their use and recorded as living on "Indian Lands" in an area west of Montgomery Co., Va, I doubt you can prove it in as direct a way as you would in more recent times with white people.

5) Please read some of the documented background listed as links in the "Share Historical Research" section of saponitown....here are a couple...

http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvnichol/bd...emttocross.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/wv2/dillon1...latt_river.htm
(this last URL didn't wrap properly - I'll see if I can get it to work)
There are more.

[PappyDick]

collins, that's a good job (posts #12-16). I can't say I agree with every sentence of the politics, those can differ from one to another of us without any major damage. But the summation of who did what to whom, and especially the extensive source citation, is better than most such efforts (here in Saponitown, or elsewhere).

Does that silly CDIB card remind anybody else of the "grandfather clause" that used to be used to deny voting rights to southern blacks (in many states, after Reconstruction ended, one could not vote if one had a grandfather who wasn't eligible to do so). It's not only crazy, it's self-perpetuating and cumulative craziness...

Our law books have been purged of a lot of nonsense like that since the 1960s; but of course we'll keep electing the sort of people who are eager to enact more, to replace it.

I'd be depressed, but I'm into irony.

[collins]

Thanks PappyDick,

Honestly, I am still flabbergasted about what I found in the research regarding blood quantum and these over all views that other Indians have about tribal sovereignty.

I believe in the concept of tribal sovereignty, I just don't think that the system or the tribes are set up properly to handle it practicly or fairly. Just my honest opinion. I know that alot of people will disagree with that viewpiont and I can respect that, but I still have to wonder how Indians that have no real say in how tribal affairs are run will be able to have a voice with corruption so rampant and personal agendas dictating the future of Native America. I'm really on the fence when it comes to these issues because I have personaly been burned by it all and witnessed others get burned as well and yet the government dictated to the tribes for long.

Is it fair to have one group of Indians being recognized while others are denied?, and this happens even within families dealing with these issues. That makes it worse.

Should tribes be allowed to set their own membership standards?

Normally, I would say yes of course, but in light of all that has happened since that power was given to the tribes I have to wonder if that power is being applied in a fair way. Today I would have to say it isn't and that tribal leadership is are acting wrongly. They actively are accepting and are using bylaws and constitutions that demolish families and create the worse kind of fueding. Its all about misguided leadership and personal agendas and who is going to have power over whom. Its truly a sad state of affairs.

[beeleaf]

know about some in the Collins family that flat out refuse to believe that the Collins were Indian. They argue the wrong piont. They have it stuck in their head that we couldn't have been Indian before a certain piont. I disagree with that assessment. I also disagree with the Pennsylvania material for an orgin of our Collins. There is just no proof of it for my line of Collinses and DNA has prooven the link between Old Thomas and John Collins father to my David Collins of 1750 and we know that John,William, and Samuel Collins were brothers and sons of Old Thomas.

The information that often is cited that the Collins were purley English goes back to the incorrect line of John Collins of Bertie County, N.C. Martha Dempsy IS NOT David Collins of 1750's mother.

Thanks, Collins. Don't want to get much further off topic, but this would be a Collins line who allegedly came from Albemarle County via PA or MD, via Anthony Collings of England. Ever heard of him? Edward aka Ned (my guy) and Elisha's father is supposed to be a William, whose father was Thomas. What I have not understood is how researchers can tell which William and which Thomas, unless they have found records they are not sharing.


Anyway, you have covered many interesting points in your letter.

I imagine it feeling good to be "recognized" by "them" the same way I recognize myself, or Daddy recognized his grandmas or the way my beloved extended family recognizes each other. But am not sure it can ever be like that. Kinda seems odd to need recognition from strangers for being who I already am in the eyes of those who matter. ;~)

[beeleaf]

You and I know who we are and our families know who we all are, but some of us would like inclusion into the rest of the Native world view/society/community/history.

Thanks for the reply. (All of it--have just copied this part to comment on)
I share that desire. Just don't ever want to discount the communities that are already part of me (and vice versa).

Was not aware of the other things going on that y'all have mentioned. Just wanting to figure out which direction (if any) my William Collins came from. His family lived in Henry/Patrick/Pittsylvania Counties of VA and Stokes Co, NC from 1767 or before until now. If that rings a bell to anybody, you are welcome to PM me.

Collins being Cherokee would not surprise me. That is actually our family's oral tradition for all but a couple of lines that mention which tribe they come from. Am aware that it may have been a blanket term for VA NDNs. But it could also be correct.

[Jack Adkins]

My wife contacted the Powhatan-Renape tribe in NJ to inquire as she is a descendent of Chief Wanhunsonocock. They sent her a letter that basically said if your ancestors did not stay true to their race and marry full bloods all along (were talking 400+ years here) then she does not have enough indian blood to be considered so don't even bother. It came off a very rude. But they would be more than happy to have us visit and buy souvenirs and donate to the tribes development fund. I sent them a letter telling them what I thought of them and where they could put their tribe.

[collins]

Thats another thing I don't get, they call us "wannabes" and "thinbloods" and yet want us to go to their Pow-Wows and spend our money or by their trinkets. What logic is in that to go support groups of people that have nothing but contempt for those of us with the Indian blood.

[yellow woman]

I also wanted to state that I'm not out for a bunch of freebies either. I know it does cost a lot of money to keep things moving forward. I am very glad to be able to access a forum like Saponi Town where people can come together and exchange ideas and family history. I'm not completely opposed to helping support something I believe in either. Socializing in any context is completely Indian. Its in our DNA. :)]

[beeleaf]

The piont I was making, is that if a tribal government is going to say that the Collins are Cherokee, so that we should go to the Cherokee, this is another way for them to get rid of the person asking questions and it happens all the time.

Collins, I understood. Was just speaking of my own situation, since I have no experience with what you have reported. ;~)


No Dempsey connection that I know of, but would probably need to go back further than I have to be sure.

fwiw, R. Haithcock lists several of my families (including the Collins) in his VA/NC Indian census book. But I can't figure out how he reached that conclusion. So there are 2 seemingly different ideas that have been published about them, but nothing offered for me to follow the trail to see for myself which (if either) is correct.

[BlondeyeLaurie]

fwiw, R. Haithcock lists several of my families (including the Collins) in his VA/NC Indian census book. But I can't figure out how he reached that conclusion. So there are 2 seemingly different ideas that have been published about them, but nothing offered for me to follow the trail to see for myself which (if either) is correct.


Hello Bee....cousin Richard Carlson also mentions the COLLINS families in his dissertation...he indicates that they were Saponi Cherokee for the most part...a few select quotes:

1. Ch 3, CD page 150: "...(Greasy Rock NDN Population)...John Bowling...Vardy, Ben, Sol COLLINS, Shepherd Gibson...these New River NDN's moved south toward regions out of VA and into NC."

2. Ch 3, CD page 162: ""NC families indexed as FPC were indexed on the VA side as "white" ...these include the Cole's, Nuckolls (Nichols), Perkins, Collins & Gibson's"

3. Vol II, Sec 2, Ch 5, pgs 207,209: "Old Thomas Gibson's son Tyra w/prosecuted in 1821 for an UNK crime in Lee Co, VA...Vardy COLLINS paid his $200 bail"
"...the younger Wm. Nichols (in 1830) lived nr Vardy COLLINS (in the New River area of TN) but woudl later move to KY to koin Valentine Collins' family...all listed as FPC"

4. Ch 6, CD page 233: "Post 1830-40...Valentine COLLINS' band of Saponi Cherokee families set up roots of what woudl become the "Salyersville Indian Population"..."

5. Ch 6, CD page 242: "...descendants of Billy & Betty Nichols married amongst the Cherokee Coles and old Saponi families of COLLINS & Gibsons"

6. Ch 6, CD page 257: " (The) COLLINS' quickly associated with the mixed-blood families of Steven & George Perkins & Billy Nichols. " (speaking of migrations to Floyd & Lawrence Counties in KY)


So...based on what Richard says in his book (which is heavilly sourced) it is his contention that the majority of the COLLINS that married. lived, worked, migrated with our family were Saponi/Cherokee....I will get the opportunity to hopefully speak with him at great length this August at our Nichols/Cole reunion in MI. Take great care~~~~Laurie

[beeleaf]

So...based on what Richard says in his book (which is heavilly sourced) it is his contention that the majority of the COLLINS that married. lived, worked, migrated with our family were Saponi/Cherokee....I will get the opportunity to hopefully speak with him at great length this August at our Nichols/Cole reunion in MI. Take great care~~~~Laurie

Thanks, Laurie. You're talking about Haithcock, not Carlson there, right?

[BlondeyeLaurie]

Howdy Bee....nope...I am referring to Richard Carlson...he attends the yearly reunion in MI....saw Rich H just last weekend at the Pow Wow but we didn't chat alot about family Collins....busy weekend! Take care Bee~~~~Laurie

[beeleaf]

Oh, ok. Thanks, Laurie.

Did you guys see the news about the Lumbee being a step closer to federal recognition? I hope they get approved. Am tired of hearing (reading) people using, "Oh, they're not a real tribe anyway" as an excuse for putdowns.

Guess that's one of the things that makes recognition desirable, although in some cases it does not stop the riffs.

[BlondeyeLaurie]

I didn't hear about that yet Bee...although now I have thanks to you...LOL....I saw a few Lumbee at the PW last weekend in fact...and some Cree too...and one fellow who I am almost certain was Cherokee....was a nice intimate smallish group...weather turned out to be lovely and I did get to dance in honor/memory of Aubrey and Brenda! That was just awesome....and after that dance that Cherokee drum fellow came up to me and said: "There is a whole lot of healing going on here tonite isn't there?"
I couldn't have agreed more. Met some new cousins too and bought soem nice gifts for my little ones. Anywho....got off topic...thanks bee...take care~~~Laurie

[sammarroq]

Collins,

Thanks for starting this link...where have I been:o

Moreover, thanks for the link. I too, would like to share the letter I sent; I made it short and sweet (maybe not so).


To Whom It May Concern,

I am writing to express my concern as to the criteria needed to become a Federally Recognized Tribe. My concern it that I have seen this process break up families and clans, as well as cause family information to be purposefully hidden or skewed, which makes it almost impossible for those trying to prove tribal affiliation. What I have seen of the process thus far is not to bring together and strengthen a culture, but to pull it apart, thus, destroying it.

My personal story is the same as many who are officially unaffiliated with a recognized tribe; however, many documents and books have been written about my ancestors. Moreover, they were also enumerated as Mulatto and Free Person of Color in census records, as well as written statements stating they appeared to be Native American.

I would like to see the recognition process changed to reunite tribes, clans and families and bring back a culture, which has been on a steady decline since the first reservation was formed.


Sincerely,

Shirley Marroquin

[sammarroq]

Thanks for the compliment Jack, hope I get an A on that in my English Comp I class. It was my final research paper and as I was writing it I discovered the senate committee and figured, well I'm mad as hell about it all so why not voice it with my essay as a letter.

Beeleaf: quote,"Been awhile since last reading that letter. Thanks for the refresher. I wonder how certain he was of using the word "all". There is a Collins researcher who has written a book (which includes my family) who seems to disagree. She says they were English, but married some Indian women. She did not know there were Collins in Orange County NC or Pittsylvania CO, VA before her family arrived in Pittsylvania Co, so am not sure what to make of it."

I know about some in the Collins family that flat out refuse to believe that the Collins were Indian. They argue the wrong piont. They have it stuck in their head that we couldn't have been Indian before a certain piont. I disagree with that assessment. I also disagree with the Pennsylvania material for an orgin of our Collins. There is just no proof of it for my line of Collinses and DNA has prooven the link between Old Thomas and John Collins father to my David Collins of 1750 and we know that John,William, and Samuel Collins were brothers and sons of Old Thomas.

The information that often is cited that the Collins were purley English goes back to the incorrect line of John Collins of Bertie County, N.C. Martha Dempsy IS NOT David Collins of 1750's mother.

See the following information Bill Childs provides to follow.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Childs
Most of these questions have been answered and are posted on saponitown.
There are two David Collins and people have copied obviously contradictory information.
The "other one" was born abt. 1758 Bertie Co., NC, and is still there in 1790, 1800 and 1810 census records. Bertie Co is in eastern NC.
His parents are Joseph Collins (1790 & 1800 Bertie Co Census), b.1726 Bertie NC, d. 1802 Bertie NC who m'd Elizabeth Bennett Penny. This Joseph left a Will in Bertie, writted 2 June 1799, naming his children.
Joseph Collins's parents are purported to be John Collins, b.1690 Nansemond Va, d. 1 Feb 1751/2 Bertie NC who m'd Martha Dempsey. This line is white on all records.
At the time this Collins family line is documented to be in Bertie Co., NC, the group comprising David Collins, b.1750, is documented as being in western Virginia and later in western NC - a long way from Bertie Co.

While I like to keep an open mind, the reference to a David Collins, b.1750 in "Grayson Co., Va" with a mother Martha Dempsey is factually in error on a number of accounts, having been confused with the David Collins of Bertie Co., NC, whose grandmother is purported to be Martha Dempsey.

1) Grayson didn't exist until 1793 when it was created from Wythe Co., Va.

2) The David Collins, b.1750, is listed on the 1790 Wilkes Co., NC census along with Ambrose, George, Hardy (Vardy?), Martin and Valentine Collins as well as Joel, Archibald, Ezekiel, Jordan & Andrew Gibson and Jo. Nicols, Jesse Bolin (and Henry Hardin). This, at the same time the "other one" is listed on the Bertie Co census.

3) Rowan County North Carolina Marriage Bonds:
1 Oct 1772. David Collins and Thompsey Posting.
Bondsmen: Henry Zeody, Alex Brown.

4) Who are the parents of David, b.1750? John Collins the Saponi (1742 Orange Co., Va Court Records) is an excellent candidate but as they were "living as Indians in Virginia" having "stolen" the Collins surname for their use and recorded as living on "Indian Lands" in an area west of Montgomery Co., Va, I doubt you can prove it in as direct a way as you would in more recent times with white people.

5) Please read some of the documented background listed as links in the "Share Historical Research" section of saponitown....here are a couple...

http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvnichol/bd...emttocross.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/wv2/dillon1...latt_river.htm
(this last URL didn't wrap properly - I'll see if I can get it to work)
There are more.

There's no doubt you'll get an "A":) great work!

[beeleaf]

Shirley,

That's an excellent letter.

The length even fit my attention span. ;~)

[Jack Adkins]

I wonder where we can go to find out what conclusions this committee has come to, if any?

[sammarroq]

Shirley,

That's an excellent letter.

The length even fit my attention span. ;~)


Thanks Bee:) I have learned certain things need to be short and to the point, else the point may get lost...

Blessings,

Shirley

[sammarroq]

I wonder where we can go to find out what conclusions this committee has come to, if any?

Jack,

Good question...I wonder if Collins will be able to fill us in??

Shirley

[PappyDick]

I found a blog that should report on it, apparently -- but hasn't done so. (From the site of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs itself, I can't see any evidence that the hearing actually happened. There was supposed to be a webcast, but it doesn't play on my computer.) Anyway, this blog has a lot of links along the left side that might lead to some interesting stuff. I don't have time to pursue it. It's pretty specific to Virginia Indians that are already recognized -- but the Monacans are among them, and therefore (I hope and trust) Eastern Siouan issues are not completely ignored.

http://jurisprudence-va-indians.blogspot.com/search/label/Oversight%20%20Hearing

[sammarroq]

I found a blog that should report on it, apparently -- but hasn't done so. (From the site of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs itself, I can't see any evidence that the hearing actually happened. There was supposed to be a webcast, but it doesn't play on my computer.) Anyway, this blog has a lot of links along the left side that might lead to some interesting stuff. I don't have time to pursue it. It's pretty specific to Virginia Indians that are already recognized -- but the Monacans are among them, and therefore (I hope and trust) Eastern Siouan issues are not completely ignored.

http://jurisprudence-va-indians.blogspot.com/search/label/Oversight%20%20Hearing

Thanks Pappy for the link...will check it out:)

Shirley

[BlondeyeLaurie]

Check it out!

http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096417324

Kudos to cousin Scott for such a well written letter~~~Laurie

[yellow woman]

Makes a persons heart feel real good when someone stands up and speaks the good words. Now if those with a good ear will listen and see the way?

[yellow woman]

Something that might help : Understanding The History of Tribal Enrollment
.... By Nora Livesay .... http://www.airpi.org/pubs/enroll.html ..... or make you mad?

[sammarroq]

Check it out!

http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096417324

Kudos to cousin Scott for such a well written letter~~~Laurie


Thanks Laurie for posting Scott's letter...well said Scott!

Shirley

[sammarroq]

Something that might help : Understanding The History of Tribal Enrollment
.... By Nora Livesay .... http://www.airpi.org/pubs/enroll.html ..... or make you mad?


yellow woman, thanks for the link...you're right, same story...heard it before, but still makes one mad:(sad.

[yellow woman]

Sammaroq you are most welcomed to the link. I often hope and pray that all these negatives would change to the good. As it stands its become like a broken record of a very bad song. The same thing over and over but no way to move away from it. Its always there at the back of the mind. At this late stage of the game? It gets very tiring. Perseverance and the need to outlive it. Right?.... :)]