Sisgismond Ray

[Phil]

Hello. I am new to this forum and am excited to find a potential source of genealogy help. I have been trying to figure out my native ancestry for a while, with little luck. Just last week, I found out through my grandfather's cousin that my gg-grandmother told her son she was Blackfoot.

My gg-grandmother was born Charlotte RAY. Her father's name was John RAY. Her mother was Lucinda REYNOLDS. I haven't found Lucinda's parents yet. But, John's parents were Sisgismond RAY and Charlotte ROE.

Most of the history I have found for this family is in central and southern Indiana. However, census information indicates that most of these RAYs were born in Kentucky in the early 1800's.

I would like to know if anyone has seen the RAY, ROE or REYNOLDS surnames in their Blackfoot research. And, I would like to know if the name "Sisgismond" has any native meaning. It seems like it could be a native name.

Also, I am not familiar with the eastern Blackfoot culture. I would be interested in sources of information about their clan system, spiritual beliefs, and customs, if that information still exists.

I would greatly appreciate any assistance with these questions. As I am sure most of you know, this type of information is difficult to come by.

[This message has been edited by Phil (edited 11-20-2002).]

[Ohgenbug]

Hi,
My grandmother said her great great grandfather was from the Carolina's and Indian. I do not know what tribe. but how I found your site was I googled the name " Sisgismond Ray " who I believe was of Indian heritage.
Sisgismond Ray was married to Charlotte Roe
their son, John Ray married Lucinda Reynolds
I have located 3 of their children: Sarah C. b.1849 married Joseph Walters, Charlotte Temple b. January 1861, and Elizabeth Caroline b. April 1865 (mygreat grandmother) she married John Males in Sullivan, Indiana.
I would appreciate any information on this family.
Thank you.
Ohgenbug

[janette]

Hi and welcome,

I have an Ann Ray married to John Watkins.... the dates go way beck to the late 1600's so i have nothing more on any other Ray family members but would love to know if you find more. Like you i believe there is a link to NA linage and will share with you as i am working on the Ray family at this time. Maybe if you go to the search here on the forum you will find several Ray's and may lead you to where you want to go.
Janette

[Linda]

I just merged your post with the thread started by some cousin of yours. How incredibly convenient to google your ancestor's name and have it pop up like that! I hope we can still reach him. What I don't get is, our forum search doesn't find Sisgismond Ray, but Google's does.

I also have a connection here, I have 19th century family, Smiths, in Sullivan, IN, which is a county over from the location of a "Blackfoot Church" we have posts about here.


Welcome, Ohgenbug, glad you found us.

[Phil]

Hello Ohgenbug (and Linda & Janette)! Yes, you can still reach me... I still drop in and look around once in a while. And, my email notifications still work.

It is great to hear from someone looking into the same line, with a similar story. I have been looking (off and on) into it for many years now. I have even visited some of the towns where this line has lived and looked up some information at local libraries. I hit a virtual wall trying to get back past Sisgismond and Charlotte. But, the last documents I found did point back to NC or VA for Sisgismond's dad or grandfather (I don't recall right now... I'm at work). But, for the last year or two I have not done much research. I have three young children (ages 4, 6 & 7) and too many things going on. I hope/plan to get back into it again. I just don't know if it will be sooner or later...

I have learned a lot from the Saponitown website. And, our family history seems to line up very well with the other stories people have written, even though I have not (until now) seen any other references to the family lines. It seems very likely that we are descended from the group of tribes described here. Charlotte Ray told my grandfather's cousin that she was "blackfoot". That, along with my documentation pointing to VA/NC and your post pointing to the Carolina's all fit this story.

My grandfather (Carl Clark Jr.) lived with Charlotte (Ray, Clark, Knight), his grandmother, for a while when he was a kid near Sullivan, IN. Before he died last winter, I made quite a few trips to visit him in Sullivan. I often asked him about Charlotte. And, he told me a few stories about her, how self sufficient she was, how she "acted like an indian", etc. He knew that she was native. But, they did not talk about it much. I could tell he wished he knew more. So, I did not push too much. But, he did contact his cousin for me, and found out about the blackfoot reference. I also heard from someone else in the family that she practiced native medicine. I don't know how reliable that is. But, it is interesting.

I have a few notes with me. I knew about Sarah C. Ray. But, I thought she was born in 1859. There is also a Frances Emma Ray (Wharton, House). I'm not sure if her mother was Lucinda or Charlotte. Lucinda married Carlisle Clark in 1875, after John Ray was out of the picture (not sure if he died in the civil war or what). Then, Lucinda died in childbirth in 1879. Frances was born either in 1873 or 1879. Charlotte (Lucinda's daughter from John Ray) then married her step-dad, Carlisle. So, either Frances was born to Lucinda in 1873, Frances was a twin to the child that died shortly after Lucinda died in childbirth, or Frances was born to Charlotte before she married Carlisle.

Sismond Ray was born around 1805 in Estill Co., KY. He married Charlotte in Decatur Co., IN on Aug 30, 1825. They had at least 6 children (William, John, Sarah Ann, Elizabeth, Nancy, and Permelia). Over time, them moved from Decatur Co., IN to Jefferson Co., IN to Louisville, KY, to Bartholomew Co., IN to Sullivan Co., IN (Sisgismond was with Mary, not Charlotte) by 1870. Sarah Ann eventually moved to Lyno Twp, KS. Nancy & Permelia married two Vaughn brothers. But, I'm not sure where they ended up.

John Ray was born in 1834 in Decatur Co, IN.

I hope this helps. I have more details at home. But, it would take some digging to get to them again. Please let me know what other information you have.

[Ohgenbug]

Hi Linda, Phil, and Janette,
Wow! I have only been a member less than 24 hours and have new cousins.
My name is Peggy, and after my grandfather died, I stayed with my grandmother and asked her about her family, I did not know how to do research then, but wrote everything down that she said.
Her mother's parents died when her mother was young, and she lived with another family, she had an aunt "Lottie". And we were part Indian.

My grandmother was Eva Veatrice Males b. Mar 4, 1901 d. June 19, 1984

My g.grandmother was Elizabeth Caroline Ray "Lizzie" b.Apr 9, 1865 d.Sept 4, 1929. I have not been able to locate John Ray's family on the 1870 Census. but on the 1860 Census John and Lucinda Ray have a 1 yr old child residing with them Sarah C. Ray. Then in 1880 I did not locate Elizabeth with her step father, but found where she was residing with her brother in law, Joseph Walters, in Clark, Illinois. Joseph and Sarah Walters had a daughter, Lucy C. age 1 (born 25 Oct 1875). I did locate a marriage record in Indiana for Sarah Ray and Joseph Walters Oct 24, 1877, this was from an index and county in Indiana was not listed. Elizabeth must have come back to Sullivan Co., Indiana because Feb 23, 1882 she marries John Milton Zacharia Taylor Males b. Feb 22, 1849 in that county.
I learned her parents were John Ray and Lucy Reynolds from her
Death Certificate #29315
Place of Death Marion County, Township of Center
City of Indianapolis ( No. 1721 Hoyt Ave. )
Full Name- Elizabeth Males Sex- Female, Color-- White , Status- Widow
Date of Birth April 9, 1865 Age 67 years, 4 months, 26 days
Occupation -- Housewife
Birth Place of Deceased--- Illinois
Name of Father--- John Ray Birth Place of Father-- Illinois
Maiden Name of Mother -- Lucy Reynolds
Burial -- Crown Hill Cemetery in Indianapolis, Indiana
Informant -- Edith Magenheimer, 1721 Hoyt Ave. (daughter b. Oct 3, 1895 in Morgan County, Indiana)

On different records I have found Elizabeth's birth place as Frankfort, Kentucky- info from my grandmother; Indiana on the 1880 census; Kentucky on the 1900 census and Illinois on her death certificat. Not sure exactly where she was born,though.

Grandma was in the G.A.R. (daughters of the Grand Army of the Republic) and she knew her grandfather was John Ray so I checked for John Ray in the Civil War. did not locate any info on him.

Do you have any idea where Charlotte's middle name came from? "Temple"
I did locate on the census families with that surname. Wondered if related to Lucinda Reynolds.

Information I have not confirmed yet -- John Ray brother of Elizabeth's possibly lived in Oklahoma, came to Indianapolis for a 2 to 3 week visit and never married. this is according to one of Grandma Eva's nieces before she died.

I do not have documentation on John Ray being the son of Sisgismond and Charlotte Roe Ray, that is something I took off the net since I was at a Brick Wall, and it seems to be true. but would still like to locate documentation of relationship.

"Trail of Tears" --I know there was a move from the east coast to the West of the Indians. Grandma mentioned that, but she didn't remember the connection. What tribes were forced to move during that journey?

Do you have brothers and sisters of John and/or Lucy?

Thank you all for replying to my query. I love doing research and am really trying to locate the Native American connection.
Peggy

[Phil]

This is the document I found pointing back to the east cost for our family line...

Kentucky: A History of the State, Perrin, Battle, Kniffin, 8th ed., 1888,
Jefferson Co.

WILLIAM R. RAY, one of the enterprising and substantial business men of
Louisville, was born in Decatur County, Ind., August 15, 1828, and is a son
of Sigismond and Charlotte (Roe) Ray, natives of Estill County, Ky., and
Ohio. The Ray family is originally from Virginia; the grandfather of
subject settling near Lexington, where he took up a large tract of land
in an early day, but being fond of hunting, when game became scarce
returned to Estill County. The subject was reared mostly in Indiana. He
is wholly a self-made man--never went to school a day in his life, but
through his own energy and perseverance managed to pick up a good
practical, business education. He commenced work for himself, cutting
cord-wood for a pork house, peddled ice, and did anything else he could, or
that came in his way. He was placed on the police force in 1854, and
became chief in 1858, serving as chief under mayors Pilcher and Barbee,
and for a time under mayor Thomas H. Crawford. He bought an interest in a
small saw-mill in 1859, and some years later bought a larger one, which he
operated for seventeen years. He has held many prominent and important
positions in business circles, and for eighteen years has been a member of
the Board of Sinking Fund Commissioners. Upon the death of president
John G. Smith, he became president of the board; he is vice-president of
the Citizen's National Bank, and has been a director in almost since its
organization. He is a thorough business man, and in all his work and
public positions has labored zealously for the city's welfare and
prosperity. Mr. Ray was married, May 14, 1848, to Miss Mary A. Neal, of
Indiana. They have three children living.

[Ohgenbug]

Phil,
Thank you for the William R. Ray article.
Doyou know anything about Jesse Ray died 1858 Platte Co. Missouri; Married Francis Stribling, July 7, Clark County, Kentucky On the net someone has them as the parents of Sisgismond Ray. The dates they have entered for Francis's mother's side are really off wonder if should be 1759 not 1859. They do not show any documentation for this information but the ancestors came from Washington County, Tennessee; Blount County, Alabama; South Carolina; Essex County, Virginia and Clark County, Kentucky.
Thank you all for all the help
Peggy

[Ohgenbug]

Thank you, Linda.
your Forum will locate Sisgismond, but not the Sisgismond Ray like Google did. Your site was the only one to come up with info on Sisgismond.
Will probably be on this site alot.
Peggy

[Phil]

RE: Jesse Ray living in Clark County, KY circa 1800
I found a similar listing on Rootsweb that certainly looks feasible. It has Jesse getting married in Clark County, KY 7July 1800, and living in Estill County, KY for the 1820 Census. That certainly matches what I have found, including the article I posted earlier today. Clark County is right next door to Lexington. And, the Rootsweb listing had Jesse's wife as Frances Stribling and born in Virginia. So, that matches the article also.

I don't know if it is correct. But, it seems like a good trail to follow, looking for confirmation. I doubt there would be too many Rays from VA, living near Lexington in 1800, and living in Estill County a bit later. At worst, it seems like they would at least be related. I think I saw something similar to this a couple of years ago. But, that is about the point where I lost steam and haven't followed up yet.