Plecker's list and infamous letter

[Saponi 1]

Message deleted by poster concerning Plecker's list

[Linda]

Reading this did put to mind what we all were just reading on the e-list, a certain person's assertions that the Indian ancestry reported in these parts are merely an attempt by light skinned "mullattoes" to escape the "curse" of being black. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[CoheeLady]

To Saponi1 & Linda,
First I want to thank Saponi for posting the Letter & "Hit List" of Walter Ashby Plecker, whom was our first Registrar of Vital Statistics, in Virginia. As you can well see this was his way to try to rid our state of the Indian population. My families surname is listed twice, the name is CASH. We are not African American, but are European & Indian. Plecker would say Mixed. My family was listed in the census as white, but they were also Indian. Our family has gone through hell, due to Plecker. I am active in politics, as I am the only citizen that stood up & spoke in favor of a resolution last year at the House Rules Committee, as a vote was up regarding a "Regret for Virginia's role in Eugenics". This movement was headed by Plecker in Va., & it wasn't just here, it spread across the country. If someone reads this & has no clue as to what I'm speaking of, to put it simply, it was a movement to cleanse the population of those that were not Nordic, or "pure white". No such thing as pure white, how stupid these men were!Either by way of sterilization or paper genocide. Plecker's victims are known & will never be forgotten, as long as their descendant's don't forget. Last year the formal "regret" from our state passed, it's the first in the country, I hope other states will follow suit.
Sincerely,
CoheeLady

[This message has been edited by CoheeLady (edited 07-10-2002).]

[clen99]

My family is on this list several times: Shiflett, Shiflet, Powell, Wood--and possibly Goin(s).

The Shifletts, Powells, Woods, Bruces, Madisons and a few others were basically all cousins living in former Shawnee/Sapponi land along the eastern Blue Ridge Mountains and the Shenendoah Valley. I have most of the genealogy availble to me if anyone is interested.

Lee Bruce

[clen99]

I also meant to add that my family as well considers themselve white, although I have for some time trying to ease them into the fact that we are at least white, if not also Native American and Black.

[Patty]

I hear you Lee....I'm getting my family used to the idea too.

Not an easy thing since one of my G-Grandfathers was a high ranking member of the KKK. I think he was "hiding in plain sight", since he wasn't anywhere near what you would call "white".

The family isn't "overtly" racist, but they're not ready to be excited by multi-culturism either.....

It's interesting to see Plecker's list. I just checked my Duffs and sure enough, they come from the VA/NC area too.

[Linda]

That's interesting about your g-grandfather. Reminds me of the stories about the author of "The Education of Little Tree." He's something Carter. The story was touted as autobiographical, then there was a revelation that the guy had been active in the KKK in his younger days. All of which was to supposedly discount the possibility that his grandparents were living Native in the Blue Ridge.

Actually, I don't think it does discount it. To me, it's pretty typical of people on the cusp of a maligned social caste, at least in my experience.

[Patty]

Linda,

Yes, I agree. http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif

[clen99]

FYI: Perhaps this should go under family lore...
I have corresponded with a distand cousin about this Plecker Bulletin. In the 1850 Albemarle County Census some families that had previously (and consequentially) been listed as white were listed as mulatto/black--all of a sudden and just in this census. It is the greater family's belief that the census taker--a local--had heard that if there were more blacks accounted for in the county, Albemarle would be eligible for more Ferderal monies and, thus, the reason some Shifletts/Woods were listed as mulatto/black. Plecker, apparently, locked in on this census information and ever after declared these families mixed/undesirable. The implications cut both ways; why did Plecker even want to list families that had been living as white if there wasn't some other suspicion? And why did the local (who was most likely a cousin of some sort) pick these particular families of the Shiflett/Wood clan as mulatto/black? The family racks it up as mistaken identity and will not respond otherwise. I keep trekking the way I always have---from mind/heart through my feet.

[Linda]

Would you be so good as to cut and paste this to the Family Lore topic, under a subject heading with the Woods/Shiflett name in it? I can foresee wanting to refer back to this story at some point, and it would be good if it were easier to find. It's also very helpful for newcomers looking for posters with those surnames.

Interesting story. It would seem more likely that somebody a bit "colorful" had entered the family line at that point. There were no federal monies being handed out to minority populations in 1850. Think about it. Minorities were sold as slaves, then, that's why they get some subsidies now. It sounds more like a modern concoction to cover up some family embarrasment. I hope I'm not offending you to say this.

[Tom]

Hello All, I may or may not have said, that when one of my ancestors were first counted in the census, about 1840 he was black, in 1860 he was mollatto, and in 1900 he was white! So my guess is that they were Indians just being miss Id-ed, or that they were just very ratially mixed and they were getting pigeon holed.Tom.

[clen99]

Linda--Not offended at all. However, I realize a mistake I made. The census Plecker used was probably the 1920 census [posted on the family website]. And I think it gives more credence to the idea (at least to the family researchers thoughts) that someone was trying to procure more money for the county. I did copy this to "Family Lore" with the 'new' info noted.

Lee

[rosebud]

One thing you will find on census records as you travel backwards in time is that the families listed on Plecker's list have a tendency to jump from race to race. It ALL depends on the census taker and county in which the family is living. Prior to Plecker's list, it was all name association. It didn't matter what "color" you looked, if you carried the same last name and lived in the same county, you were earmarked as "colored", "fpc", "portuguese", etc. My family is blonde/blue/some fair, but because of the name association, "Portuguese". These same men in just the time frame of 40 years covered 3 races. Starting as white, and becoming FPC, then colored. If you are fortunate enough to trace your line to Colonial times, you may find them being listed as FPC again. Example: "Armistead Peters, born free of Surry County, about 56 yrs of age and of yellow complexion is short and stoutly made". Surry Co, VA ca. 1780.

[Gidget]

My family is listed in there once. It is Doggett. This letter explains alot and am glad that I found it. I know for a fact that my great grand parents ,and both grandparents were indian,yet they are listed as white. Never understood why until now. It really upsets me to know that he got away with doing this because it has made it so much harder to find out about my family. I have to tell you that I am thankful for the info you have given us all on here. God Bless, Gidget

[Dreaminghawk]

From Plecker's List
Scott:
Dingus (See Lee County) Russell:
Keith, Castell, Stillwell, Meade****, Proffitt. (See Lee and Tazewell)

On numerous sites, I have seen MEADE listed as the same family as MEADOWS, MEADERS, MEDDERS, etc.
Where were Meades before 1800 and does anyone have any ideas about how to connect them to Meadows?
peace

[Dreaminghawk]

From NC Genweb...... Jones Co estate index

MEADE, Rachel - Pg 221 - mother Hannah Mead; sister Barbara Meade; sister
Hannah Collins; nephew Ben Collins; nephew Rachel West; nephew Charity Mead;
nephew Isaac Collins; sister Tryphena West; nephew Nancy Meade; nephew Polly
Collins; nephew Barbara Meade; sisters Barbara Meade and Hannah Collins; Exrs:
John Collins, nephew Ben Collins, Barbara Meade; Wts: Abraham Dudley Sr.,
??? Dudley

MEAD, Thomas - Pg 117 - wife Hannah; son Thomas; daughter Tryphena West;
daughter Hannah Collins; daughter Barbara Mead; daughter Rachel Meade; Exrs:
son Thomas Mead, neighbor James Watson; Wts: William Hachell, A. Dudley, Fanny
Dudley.

MEADOWS/MEADOR, Abraham - Pg 162 - wife Fanny/Famy; my son; my children; my
three sons; daughter Nancy Meadors; daughter Sarah; son John; Exrs:
Bartholomew Meadors, Fany Meadors; Wts: Buck Barry, John Taylor

MEADORS, Velater - Pg 299 - Liaz Meadors; Velator Meadors (a woman); her five
children now living: Fereby, Patty, Fanny, Rebeccah, and Jason Meadors


Brenda.....notice your Collins with Meades? Did the Meades(Meadows) move to Granville/Person/Little River with Old Thomas's group?

Linda....... can you move or copy this and my previous post to the Meadows thread to keep it together?

[Emilysalings]

Hello, I am new here. can anyone tell me what is Plunkett's list and letter and where can i read it at?

I came across this website when doing some research for my husband's grandmother, who has Collins in her family, and I was suprised that there was a indian group called the Blackfoot's, I thought my mother was making it up when i was growing up, telling me about my father's family. I figured she had to be making it up, cause why/how could the Souix and the Blackfoot out west be in Virginia and North Carolina? Makes sense now, also explains little things from my childhood. I just started researching my family tree, I knew we were part indian from my mother's side of the family, but her family was from Canada, my parents divorced when I was a kid, and whenever I asked questions about my father's side of the family, my mother would try to tell me a little, and my grandmother would step in and say the father's side didn't matter, that it was the mothers' that you trace your descent from, so i left it alone till now. I have started asking my mother again about my father's side of the family, and she said that he was part blackfoot souix, and for the reason stated above, i thought she was making that up, I will have to apologize now. :) Would anyone know the significance/meaning? of blowing tobacco smoke on children? Wondering because, when I was little, before my parents divorced, my father had brought my brothers and sister, and i to meet his grandfather, and when we were introduced to him one at a time, he blew smoke on us and said something, I can't remember now, it was so long ago. The only thing else that comes to mind right now, is that my mother said he wasn't a christian until just before he died, then his third wife talked him into it, and that he was adopted by his grandparents as his father died and his mother was taken away(not sure what that means as he was born abt 1897, I would think that there wasn't anymore indians to be taken anywhere by then?).

Surnames that I know of so far on that side of the family is: Elmore, Cook, Spencer, Gibson, Harris, Fields, Burdett, and Craft.
from the areas of Fayette, West Virginia, Boteourt County, Craig County, Giles County, Roane County Virginia and Orange County, North Carolina off the top of my head.

My husband descends from Elmores also, from Haw's River, Almanance County, North Carolina, that are related to my Elmore's in Orange County, North Carolina too.

[Linda]

Very interesting. The Haw River is short for Sissipaha River, which if you saw my article at www.saponitown.com/blackfoot.htm I believe comes from the Piedmont Siouan words "ici asepa hiye" or blackened foot. Tobacco smoke is used in prayer and ceremony throughout Indian cultures. It's routine to bless or cleanse something with tobacco smoke.

Your maternal grandmother sounds pretty Indian, too. Most woodland tribes were matrilineal meaning you would get your clan and inherit your status from your mother's side, not your fathers. Your father would come live with your mother's family when he married your mom. A man might be elected chief if his mother came from one of the family's who were in line for that office.

Where was this grandfather who blew smoke living? What was his name? The Harris and the Gibson names are common among families with VA Siouan Blackfoot descent. Burdett isn't familiar, but Burnett is.

[Emilysalings]

My great grandfather's adopted father came to Florida in the 1920's and my great grandfather moved to Florida abt 1950's from fayette county, west virginia. My father did come to live with my mother's parents after they were married, I never thought about it being a indian tradition or anything, just thought it was grandmother being the boss. My grandmother on my mother's side pretty much ruled the whole family. She was Indian and French Canadian, I think she was divided on what she wanted to be known as, on the one hand, she had very definite ideas and customs that to me were indian, like how to cure you if you were sick or if you had a bad dream or something or how you had a secret name that you never tell anyone, wierd little things like that, and she would talk about her mother, and mother's mother's and tell stories, and things, on the other hand, if anyone outside the family asked her a question about what she was, the answer would be that she was white, period. She used to tell me stories about how when she was young her father wouldn't allow her and her sisters to play with her cousins as they were too dark, and he didn't want anyone to get any ideas that his family was anything but white, or how they didn't stay out in the sun too long for fear of their skin getting too dark. And those sorts of things, she carried with her and passed on to her children and grandchildren. It seems wierd to me, that nowadays in these times it is popular to have indian blood in your family, and my grandmother even in the 1980's was still afraid of anyone knowing that she had any at all. Well, anyway, that is enough rambling, thanks for answering my question, about the smoke, my grandmother never used smoke, her husband, my grandfather one thing he never budged on was that there was to be no tobacco in his house(maybe, because he was white, maybe he just didn't like tobacco, not sure), and my great grandfather on my father's side sure did look white to me, so I was wondering if it meant something or not. Thanks again. Oh, I hope, I haven't offended anyone by saying all this stuff, my grandmother or her father wasn't racist or anything, and I am certainly not, I think they were just afraid.

[Bill Childs]

Emily,
Click on the "search" button on the upper right, and search on "plecker". Scroll down to click on the "submit" button or whatever that's labeled, then that list of surnames by county will come up in one of those posts.
Bill

[Emilysalings]

thank you

[sammarroq]

To Saponi1 & Linda,
First I want to thank Saponi for posting the Letter & "Hit List" of Walter Ashby Plecker, whom was our first Registrar of Vital Statistics, in Virginia. As you can well see this was his way to try to rid our state of the Indian population. My families surname is listed twice, the name is CASH. We are not African American, but are European & Indian. Plecker would say Mixed. My family was listed in the census as white, but they were also Indian. Our family has gone through hell, due to Plecker. I am active in politics, as I am the only citizen that stood up & spoke in favor of a resolution last year at the House Rules Committee, as a vote was up regarding a "Regret for Virginia's role in Eugenics". This movement was headed by Plecker in Va., & it wasn't just here, it spread across the country. If someone reads this & has no clue as to what I'm speaking of, to put it simply, it was a movement to cleanse the population of those that were not Nordic, or "pure white". No such thing as pure white, how stupid these men were!Either by way of sterilization or paper genocide. Plecker's victims are known & will never be forgotten, as long as their descendant's don't forget. Last year the formal "regret" from our state passed, it's the first in the country, I hope other states will follow suit.
Sincerely,
CoheeLady

[This message has been edited by CoheeLady (edited 07-10-2002).]

I know that Pleckerism was alive and well, long before Plecker himself came on the scene. Has anyone seen where in the state of VA families are listed in any other designation than B or W ( I have been searching the mid to late 1800's)? This seems to be all I come across.

Shirley

[melungeon]

Yes,

MIne were listed as MU and on one census my Minor family was first listed as portugee. Tari

[beeleaf]

Has anyone seen where in the state of VA families are listed in any other designation than B or W ( I have been searching the mid to late 1800's)?

Shirley, off the top of my head comes Patrick and Pittsylvania Counties. Probably would include Henry County, since they're part of the same lump.
Amherst and King William Counties, etc. (where there are reservations or known "settlements").

Looking for any family in particular?

Have Richard's "Indian census" book here. Not indexed, so would be good to know which county(s) to flip to. Just opened up to Taylor County (1850) and you can add that and Carroll Co. In case you have not yet seen this book, most of it is 1850, but there's more for a few counties. This is VA and NC.