Flatt River ( today Person's County)

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Crystal,

This is where I THINK my Collins were before removing to Kentucky. There was a Thomas Collins sold his land on the Pumunkey River in Louisa Co. Va 1747 and moved to what was then Granville co. NC /later became Orange Co. NC. He had sons, Thomas Jr., william, John, Samuel( father of Vardy Collins, the well known Melungeon) Lewis and Charles. I know of at least one daughter but there could have been more.
According to at least one researcher he believed one of Thomas Collins daughters married Moses Riddle( listed 1767 Pittsylvania Co. Va tithibles as Indian)
Do you have any information on this Flatt River Settlement?

Brenda

[Crystal]

No Brenda, I don't. Have you tried Forrest Hazel. With it being what is now Orange County, NC, he may have some information regarding this line. I'll ask him the next time I talk to him. I'll be calling him this week.

Crystal http://winwinworldnet.90.uslive.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif

[Linda]

Brenda (or Crystal). On a side branch of the family, I have Powells, Bledsoes and Walkers in early Orange County. Ever see anything on them?

[Dorothy Pagano]

My European ancestors on the Pamunkey neck was David(Davis)Davenport(around 1650). It has been suspected he was "married" to a Chickahominy or Pamunkey woman. I descend through his son Martin; who, it is presumed,
also married from one of those tribes. One of Martins daughters was named Crotia, which is not of European origin. Someone once sent me an e-mail that said Crotia meant Melungion. David (the proginator)is said to have lived on Pamunkey lands with their permission. The part I am confused about is the source said "he delt in illegal Indian trade". Does that mean he traded with the Indians or was a slave trader?

[Coharie Roy]

Dorothy,

The name Crotia seems to me to be a contraction of Croatoan (or Croatan). The Croatoans were the friendly Hatteras Indians living near Roanoke Island in 1587. It was these Indians the "Lost Colonists" sought refuge with after Governor White failed to return with provisions. (Then again, it could a shortened name of the country, Croatia.)

As to "illegal Indian trade," it's my understanding that early colonial Indian traders had to be licensed by the colonial Governor in order to conduct trade with the Indians. Most of the trade was in furs and weapons (and other iron goods). The trade was highly profitable for the English, and at the same time worrisome, since the weapons they gave to the Indians in exchange for the furs could easily be turned against them. For these two reasons and many more, the colonial government wanted to keep close control over the Indian trade and only licensed certain men to carry on that trade.

[Linda]

Around that time frame the Croatians were having enough trouble of their own with invading aliens, so I don't think they were wandering around in the "New World" too much. Croatan seemed more likely to me, too. I'll post some names of Indian traders I just saw listed in William Byrd's journal. I'll do that over in the post I started about him.

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

I was sent an email a few days ago about the Person County Indians. According to this person they are a reconized tribe, but she didn't say if they are just a group of people or if they have been reconized by the state or federal goverment.

{Mrs.Dillon The Indians of Person County, is a tribe of about 850 members are located in a remote community on the North Carolina and Virginia border in the countries of Halifax in Virginia and Person in North Carolina. The area is referred to as the "high plains". Our community,located in the secluded area called the High Plains Community of North Carolina and Virgina has been home for over 225 years. We settled into the area when most of the sapony Indians were being driven north to join the Iroquois in new york.Since the Iroquois had been our traditional enemies for centuries, some of the Sapony chose to move south and west back to lands that were inhabited by the Sapony prior to European contact . The area was first written about by William Byrd in the Histories of the Dividing Line betwixt Virginia and North Carolinia.}

Can anybody enlighten me on this tribe?

Brenda

[Linda]

Since the Iroquois had been our traditional enemies for centuries, some of the Sapony chose to move south and west back to lands that were inhabited by the Sapony prior to European contact .

That's a very interesting statement. I'd theorized that going to the Iroquois after all the bad blood would have been a hard pill to swallow for some. When she says "move south and wesst back to land that were inhabited by the Sapony prior to European contact" that sounds like the migration routes into Florida, Alabama, Kentucky, Ohio, etc.

Do you think that's what she's saying?

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Linda,
The Occanechee Saponi website gives a history and I believe it states that the origional Saponi migerated from the land west of the Appalachian Mountains in what is called Ohio today. Also I have heard it stated by Richard Heithcock. That is why I could not understand why they were trying so hard to only except members with Orange Co. NC ties as the Saponi was constantly on the move.
Also ....if anybody has a updated email address or some way to get in touch with Richard tell him to contact me. I have a few questions on what is happening with his books.
Brenda

[Linda]

I've heard that too, that Ohio was the origins for all the Siouan people who migrated east, west and south from there.

[itconani]

indeed-
souins in va/nc come from ohio valley region in ancient times.
the indians of persons county are also refered to the high plains community and to outsiders as cherokees.
if any one is intersted in these folks i know and work with a few in va. would be happy to pass along inquiries - and yes, they are state recognized and sit on the indian commission board for nc.
brenda - any of your collins related to coastal nc? mattamuskeet and haterask bunch?

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

itconani,
My journey has been over 30 years and I still haven't found the parentage of my Meredith "Meridia" Collins. I follow a connection through his eldest son Bradley Collins who married into the Rhea/Ray family in Orange County NC 1817. I find Meredith himself in Wilkes Co. NC 1797.Earlier records show he entered Captain James McDaniel's Fincastle militia in 1776 with a George,David and Lewis Collins and that these four Collins met up with Vardimon "Vardy" Collins in Wilkes Co. NC where they lived for about three years before spliting up. David and Lewis followed Vardy over into Tennessee and Meredith went to Copper Creek in Russell Co. Va. George I feel was the elder of the four settled at Peach Bottom in Gayson Co. Va.I believe these Collins were grandsons of old Thomas Collins of Granville Co. and that they were a part of the Collins Saponi who came out of Orange Co. Virginia. Believing and Knowing is two different things tho so I just go on searching and hopeing for a clue that will lead me in the correct direction.
I have ask for help from several who I feel know more about the history of these Colonial tribes but I have not recieved responses from many. You have to remember I was raised a white hillbilly ( and darn proud of it). I have discovered many false statements handed down from my people that I have proven to be false. One told that my ggggrandfather came from Ireland durning the famious potatoe famine. I have traced him beyond the years of the famine to the RevWar and McDaniel's Company.I also found him listed as "Mullato" on 1810 tax records in Floyd Co. Kentucky and FPC on 1820 Pike Co. Kentucky. That also was before the famious potatoe famine.The oral family history is that the Collins were mixed blood Indians that hide in the mountains of Kentucky and West Virginia to aviod the round up. I tend to believe that story until I can prove different.
Old Thomas Collins....by Jack Goins http://www.angelfire.com/wv2/dillon1944/old_thomas_collins.htm
Bradley Collins was Mereidth's first born. This is a letter that links Meredith Collins to the David Collins 1750 line through his son Bradley. http://www.angelfire.com/wv2/dillon1944/letter.htm

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Brenda

[itconani]

ill take a peak at the links you have listed!
my collins are from the Albermarle pennisula.

on orange co - any word about the name Adcock or west from this area of NC?

ill fill in more on collins when i have a chance to look at my notes!

[tasheaka]

Brenda
Iam fairly new to the site, however, I will pass on the message to Rick Haithcock to contact you. I am from Blackfork which is a Saponi community. My family and I have made many trips to NC and Va in support ot our Saponi people who reside in that area. Rick has researched intensely for many years on the above topic. However, some of the family of my dad were not necessarily saponi.
I found some of his people in the state of NY. In communications from itconani I find that some of his people may be Monacan. It just continues on and on.
tasheaka

[kimmcarthur]

Hello Descendants of Saponi Town - Greentown - Lawrenceville, Virginia:

My name is KIM MCARTHUR, I am also a descendant of the "GREEN's" of Greentown-Lawrenceville, Vitginia in Brunswick County . . .


"MACK, VAN, & Nancy ( GAINES ) CALLIS" were from FREEMAN, VIRGINIA in Brunswick County . . .The "MOORE's" were their first cousins . . .

Gertrude (Powell) Green (She was Brown Skin) came from North Carolina on a Ferry and
then met Willie Green....Her mother was very Light skinned and her father dark skinned....
She mention to the Children that her parents were Watusi/Indians (Watusi 's are from Eastern Africa ) She said her father was very tall...Watusi's are very tall...

Her mother was probably Indian... & Her father was probably African & Indian
mixed....Because She was a Mixed Indian....


Please send me information about the "POWELL", "GAINES", & "CALLIS"


My Family Tree is below:


Fred & Polly (Jackson) Green
Great Great Great Grand Parents


Marcy & Lucy (Wyche) Green
Great Great Grand Parents

Willie & Gertrude (Powell) Green
Great Grand Parents

Van & Louise ( Green) Callis
Grand Parents

Fred & Sarah ( Callis) McArthur
Parents

Kim A. McArthur
(Myself)

______________________


Mack & Nancy (Gaines) Callis
Great Grand Parents

Van & Louise (Green) Callis
Grand Parents


Fred & Sarah (Callis) McArthur
Parent


Kim Mcarthur
(myself)


_______________

Thank you,


KIM MCARTHUR

[kimmcarthur]

Hello Descendants of Saponi Town - Greentown - Lawrenceville, Virginia:
My name is KIM MCARTHUR, I am also a descendant of the "GREEN's" of Greentown-Lawrenceville, Vitginia in Brunswick County . . .


"MACK, VAN, & Nancy ( GAINES ) CALLIS" were from FREEMAN, VIRGINIA in Brunswick County . . .The "MOORE's" were their first cousins . . .

Gertrude (Powell) Green (She was Brown Skin) came from North Carolina on a Ferry and
then met Willie Green....Her mother was very Light skinned and her father dark skinned....
She mention to the Children that her parents were Watusi/Indians (Watusi 's are from Eastern Africa ) She said her father was very tall...Watusi's are very tall...

Her mother was probably Indian... & Her father was probably African & Indian
mixed....Because She was a Mixed Indian....


Please send me information about the "POWELL", "GAINES", & "CALLIS"


My Family Tree is below:


Fred & Polly (Jackson) Green
Great Great Great Grand Parents


Marcy & Lucy (Wyche) Green
Great Great Grand Parents

Willie & Gertrude (Powell) Green
Great Grand Parents

Van & Louise ( Green) Callis
Grand Parents

Fred & Sarah ( Callis) McArthur
Parents

Kim A. McArthur
(Myself)

______________________


Mack & Nancy (Gaines) Callis
Great Grand Parents

Van & Louise (Green) Callis
Grand Parents


Fred & Sarah (Callis) McArthur
Parent


Kim Mcarthur
(myself)


_______________

Thank you,


KIM MCARTHUR

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

The Saponi, Tutelo, and Occaneechi going under the name of Saponi settled in
Brunswick
County, Virginia about a musket shot away from Fort Christianna ,the Flatt River (in the part of Granville County that became Orange in 1752,)
THOMAS POYTHRES, of Pr. Geo. Co.; 180 acs. (N.L.), Surry Co.; N.
side of Nottoway
River on N. side of the Woodyard Sw a little above the fork; 23 March 1715,
p. 265. 20 Shill.
William Reade 21 Feb 1725 Isle of Wight 100 acres on the north side of the
Meherrin River. Beginning g and c on the East side of Flatt Swamp. Patent 12
p. 341
Flatt swamp was considered Saponi tribal area.


1713 Treaty of Fort Christiana includes 36 sq. mi. set aside for the Saponi
Indians in Brunswick Co.
1746-7 The Saponis moved from the Pamunkey River area of Va. to the Flat
River
1767 Saponis are selling land on the Flat River in Orange Co. Saponis are
moving to sections of the back woods of the New River in Va. and N.C.

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

The Melungeons began selling their land on the Flatt River in Orange County beginning about 1767 and moved to the back woods section of the New River in Virginia and North Carolina. They moved from the Pamunkey River area of Virginia to the Flat River beginning in about 1747-9. These families included Collins, Gibson, Bunch, Bolen, and possibly Moses Riddle. They were of the Baptist faith, some joined at Stony Creek by letter from another Baptist Church.

According to North Carolina records, the Saponi Indians had a settlement about 15 miles east of Hillsboro, county seat for Orange County, North Carolina … According to their settlement location, the Saponi would probably be near the Flatt River. …

The following Saponi information is from a Saponi chronology compiled from an Eno-Occoneechee petition for recognition by the State of North Carolina-1750. The Saponi had a settlement near Hillsboro, North Carolina. Post Revolutionary Pleasant Grove region Saponi Indians Jeramiah Bunch, George Gibson, and Henry Bunch received land grants in 1785 along the Eno River just east of Hillsboro, North Carolina.
pp. 84-85

[sammarroq]

The Melungeons began selling their land on the Flatt River in Orange County beginning about 1767 and moved to the back woods section of the New River in Virginia and North Carolina. They moved from the Pamunkey River area of Virginia to the Flat River beginning in about 1747-9. These families included Collins, Gibson, Bunch, Bolen, and possibly Moses Riddle. They were of the Baptist faith, some joined at Stony Creek by letter from another Baptist Church.

According to North Carolina records, the Saponi Indians had a settlement about 15 miles east of Hillsboro, county seat for Orange County, North Carolina … According to their settlement location, the Saponi would probably be near the Flatt River. …

The following Saponi information is from a Saponi chronology compiled from an Eno-Occoneechee petition for recognition by the State of North Carolina-1750. The Saponi had a settlement near Hillsboro, North Carolina. Post Revolutionary Pleasant Grove region Saponi Indians Jeramiah Bunch, George Gibson, and Henry Bunch received land grants in 1785 along the Eno River just east of Hillsboro, North Carolina.
pp. 84-85

Where did Brenda get this info, anyone?

Shirley