Native culture/Traditions passed down

[Jeff Beard]

I'm curious as to what Native Culture/Traditions were passed down among other Saponi/Occaneechi descended families.
My Maternal Grandmother was of Saponi descent ( Harris & Lynch families of Brunswick Co. Va. )
In her family that were a number of things passed down in the family that were based possibly on our Native heritage such as..
Oral traditions of being of Native heritage
Making of corn husk dolls
knowledge of different herbal plants for medicine & food
my great grandmother speaking in a native language possibly Saponi or Cherokee.
belief in the Little people, a common belief among the Cherokees, catawbas, and Creeks.
Does any one else on the list have any similar family traditions.

[Linda]

We should make a point of getting you together with Felicia and her mom. They're Brunswick county natives, too, with a lot of the same cultural elements you're mentioning.

I don't suppose anybody took note of any of the words your gr-grandmother spoke? Where in NC are you? We're right over the border in southside Virginia. Maybe we can all get together at some event sometime this year.

I have Harrises. They show up in PA ca. 1810 with a story of being from Virginia. The Blackfoot ID is carried through that side, and the Harrises had strong native features. Jade has Haliwa Harris'es. Maybe someday we all can do a DNA test to see if we're cousins.

[Jeff Beard]

Linda,
I would definetly be interested in meeting or exchanging information as to the Native Culture that was passed down in the family. I live in Gastonia which is close to Charlotte, and do sometimes travel through Brunswick Co. Va. on my way to visit friends in Alexandria, Va.
I will speak with my mother to see if she remembers any of the words her grandmother used in conversation, and I have emailed a distant cousin who is descended from the Harris & Lynch families also, as there was a way of counting that was passed down in her branch of the family. I will get back with you concerning the way of counting to see if it may be part of the Saponi traditions... Jeff Beard

[Jeff Beard]

Linda,
One of the words my great grandmother used in conversations was Si Yo, which is the cherokee word for Hello..Since my great grandmother was born and raised in Jackson Co. N.C. so it is possible that she may have picked up some of the Cherokee language. I do know that there were some Catawba & Saponi families that lived in the mountains in both Haywood and Macon Counties. I did receive a email from my cousin Ann who is also descended from the Harris & Lynch families, and she gave me the way of counting that was passed down in her line. The words are written down the way that they sound...
1. one ree
2. zu ree
3. zick er ee
4. zon
5. holla bone
6. crak a bone
7. wish zaree
8. tear ee
9. tire ee
10. ten
Ann, also said that there was sort of a childish way of counting to 5 that went.
1. little man
2. ling man
3. long man
4. thick pot
5. thunkin
Does any of this sound familiar to anyone on the list ? could it be Saponi words ? Jeff Beard

[Tom]

hey Jeff where is your Cherokee side of the family from?
Could they be related to the SC. or GA people.?
Just really curious!!

[Linda]

Let us know when you're passing through and we'll try to work something out.

Those words don't bear any resemblance to Tutelo, I'm afraid. You could check the Mingo-EGADs site and see if they seem Iroquoian. If that doesn't come up right away in a search let me know.

[Buffalowm]

Linda & Everyone,
My great grandfather (Hyman)'s brother Primus was a Lynch. The family history says that they were Tuscarora that were separated when they were taken into slavery. My great grandfather was given the name Ishmael Hyman and his brother Primus Lynch. There are times we have to do more indepth research and not assume someone is not connected to a specific Tribe i,e, Hyman etc. Slavery was the cause of many names changing to ones that we may not readily identify with a Tribe. I guess, what I am trying to say is there are many Hymans buried in Indian Woods that are Tuscarora and were taken into slavery by William T. Hyman hence the Hyman name. My grandfather has a brother Claudius who lived in Indian Woods and is buried there as well. The move to Hamilton (Bertie Co) from Indian Woods was after William T. Hyman took my great grandfather into slavery.

Jade

[sakkwa]

Jeff, I`m not an expert. notice how the words sort of rhyme together? They will almost make like a little song when spoken in the correct tone. The problem here is DIALECT. I think they may have some Creek,possibly Cherokee or Chocktaw. Our Shawnee language has a lot of this also. There was a lot of intermingling amongst the southern people. Hope this may help.

[rockhound]

A quick search for the numbers one through ten in Cherokee gives us this...

one = saquu
two = tali
three = tsoi
four = nvgi
five = hisgi
six = sudali
seven = galiquogi
eight = tsunela
nine = sonela
ten = sgohi

[Jeff Beard]

Greetings Everyone,
I'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond but my Mom had a heart attack last month, and had to have a triple by pass operation. So I have been a bit side-tracked by all that has been going on..
Linda & Sakkwa it could be a possibility that the method of counting passed down in a branch of my family could have been from the German side as my ancestor William Harris married a Ruth Sellers who may have been of German descent and Ruth sellers Harris may have passed this way of counting down to her children..
According to the family history my great grandmother did speak in a Indian language enough to carry on a conversation in the language, unfortunately my Mother is not well enough to ask if she remembers any of the Indian words that her grandmother used in conversation.

[Jeff Beard]

Tom,
My Cherokee line is from Hester Black Thompson who was born on the Broad River in N.C. in 1769, and died in 1835 on Soco Creek in Jackson Co. N.C.
Hester Black married Nathan " Dutch " Thompson who was a whiteman and a methodist Circuit rider.
Some of Hester's descendants applied for enrollment with the Eastern Band Of Cherokees but were denied enrollment as Hester was not listed on the Cherokee Nations rolls, but the enrollment applications of her descendants do provide some interesting information as that most of the white citizens in Swain County did View the families as being of Indian descent... Jeff Beard

[nadine]

A quick search for the numbers one through ten in Cherokee gives us this...

one = saquu
two = tali
three = tsoi
four = nvgi
five = hisgi
six = sudali
seven = galiquogi
eight = tsunela
nine = sonela
ten = sgohi

I am Cherokee/white and should have looked this up long ago but didn't. I've only heard the southern dialect spoken one time. The consanants have strange sounds so you can't easily sound the words out phonetically. Thanks for posting these numbers!

[rockhound]

I am Cherokee/white and should have looked this up long ago but didn't. I've only heard the southern dialect spoken one time. The consanants have strange sounds so you can't easily sound the words out phonetically. Thanks for posting these numbers!

I have a Cherokee dictionary that has all of the sounds and their equivalent in English...I picked it up when I was a kid in Tahlequah.

My great-grandfather spoke fluent Cherokee, but refused to pass on the knowledge to anyone.

[beeleaf]

Jeff, your counting method sounds similar to something I found here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=y0oAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA426&lpg=PA426&dq=cracka+bone&source=web&ots=RE7tQy_s9m&sig=7ZP4H64kxuzcyROJBBIbiVGsWGs

[beeleaf]

I'd like to hear more about traditions handed down.

There are a couple that I've only recently realized might be handed down from the native side(s). Or they might just be southeastern. One is the everyday use of the word "pone". The other is the way my g-grandma planted her garden. I cannot remember for sure where the squash was, but I do recall picking green beans that were growing down the corn stalks.

There were other things about this grandma that I always assumed were part of being Primitive Baptist, but now I'm not sure. Her hair was to her waist, but braided and "put up". I happened to be swinging with her on the porch one day when she took it down. That is a cherished memory!

[Red Metis]

I'd like to hear more about traditions handed down.

There are a couple that I've only recently realized might be handed down from the native side(s). Or they might just be southeastern. One is the everyday use of the word "pone". The other is the way my g-grandma planted her garden. I cannot remember for sure where the squash was, but I do recall picking green beans that were growing down the corn stalks.

There were other things about this grandma that I always assumed were part of being Primitive Baptist, but now I'm not sure. Her hair was to her waist, but braided and "put up". I happened to be swinging with her on the porch one day when she took it down. That is a cherished memory!

Hi Beeleaf,
That sounds like my father's family! My mother told me that the women had very long hair but wore it braided, put up, and covered with a kerchief/scarf. They also dressed very different--always in skirts with aprons covering them.
I wish I had known some of them--they had all passed away by the time I was born.

[Mousini78]

Bee
I was raised Primitive Baptist as well...what a small world. My grandmother (Wilson side) was a very short woman and had hair down to the floor...it was a daily ritual to comb her hair, put it in a bun and pin it. I still have her hair pins...they were used in both my daughter's and my wedding. And she always wore an apron...as did my mom when she was cooking. I showed my apron collection to my kids and they didn't even know what they were for...or were very interested in them...they have lots of memories for me and I guess I will keep them...hmmm...maybe become regalia??? Thanks for bringing back some good memories of my grandma....bless her soul.

[granny8]

Hi Beeleaf, when you said "pone" were you talking about a pone of cornbread? All of the things you talked about is still done in the hills of Kentucky. We still us a aprons when we have a good dress on but nothing like my grandmother wore. I was white and covered her whole front. If we went somewhere she had to put on a clean apron. My grandparents on the Mathews side knew what everything in nature was used for. They were the only people who showed me how to fix pumpkin blooms to eat. And which were the male blossoms so you wouldn't kill a pumpkin. Reading what you wrote brought back so many memories! It just warmed my heart! Darlene

[granny8]

Hi everyone. I would just like to ask someone a question. I was out gathering flint and I found a piece that was flat and there was an indention in the middle that was about an inch wide and about three inches long. Is this something the Native Americans might have used for something. I have never seen any flint like this. You know you can knap flint but I have no idea hou this was made so smooth. Any guess? Darlene

[beeleaf]

Hi Granny8. Yes, "pone" referred to cornbread, but it's also what my mom called the giant biscuit they would make. Your mention of pumpkin blooms reminded me of Dad's family frying up some squash blossoms!

Hey Red Metis. I'm straining to remember aprons, but I do recall home-made dresses, and quilts made from old dresses and shirts. I still have the quilt my gr-grandma (on the porch swing) made for me when I was about 12. It's falling apart, but here to stay.

Becky, I like your idea of using these cherished treasures in regalia. I can almost feel the energy those hair pins must have.

[Mousini78]

I have several quilts as well...and since they are beginning to come apart after so much "loving"...maybe that should become a shawl or something, eh?

[Rick Cassidy]

Jeff this is Wind/Dancer ; And now that I have seen the way of counting in Cherokee. It sounds alot like the way my grandfather counted . He was from S.C.

[beeleaf]

...maybe that should become a shawl or something, eh?

That's a great idea!