Collins/Gibsons Saponi ??????????

[ClelandThorpe]

I am Cleland Thorpe from Corbin Ky. My ancestors are Collins and Gibsons. I have reason to believe that my Gibsons (G-G-G-Grandfather Thomas Gibson, another G-G-G-Grandfather, George Gibson and G-G-Grandfather, Charles Gibson who was born in Louisa Co. Virginia are Saponi.

My Collins who were from the Piedmont Area of Virginia were James and Lexy Collins, my G-G-G-grandparents and Martin and Elizabeth Collins, my G-G-grandparents. Martin shows up in the 1830 census in Hawkins Co. Tennessee as "FPC" (Free people of Color)
I have been told these people were probably Pawmunkey Indian.

Any help with finding these roots would be greatly appreciated.

You can e-mail me direct at cthorpe@sc2000.net

[Linda]

Are you aware that there are many Collins desscedants who believe this surname is Saponi also? Gibson also occurs among the Saponi, Tuscarora and Creek.

This is the second time I've heard of the Collins name associated with the Pamunkey. Was that you mentioning it elsewhere on this forum?

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Hey Cleland, ole friend, Glad you finally found your way to this forum.
Linda, Cleland and I have crossed paths before.We have many conversations about the Collins line and the many simularities that run in our lines. We believe they only knew how to write the name of the family members before so then renamed the next generation with the same names. Too many Johns, Thomas, Lewis, William, David, and Levi's so one would think a first name of "Meredith" would stick out like a sore thumb.
Linda we need a spell check on this forum.I can't help it if that is one of my flawes. http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif



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Life is a Rainbow made up of Many Different Colors.....

[itconani]

collins is a pamunkey surname, or at least it has been in the past (entering in late 18th early 19th centuries) these include wm. collins c. 1794, richard collins c.1836 - many were "fringe pamunkey" in new kent co. area including, a simeon collins who had about 6 kids circa 1900.
this name also appears in nancemond marriages.
one would also be interested to know that there are ALOT of powhatan names out there and that they go in many directions, including among the huron in canada, catawba in SC, and Cherokee in NC to name the tip of the ice berg, checkout Rountree "pocahontas's people" for starters.

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Most of us have heard about the MELUNGEONS. The main core surnames being COLLINS* GIPSON*
BOWLING*GOINS*SHEPHARD*MULLINS*&JOHNSON .
It now seems certain that at least one branch of the Melungeon tree springs from the Saponi Indian tribe of Colonial Virginia. This tribe was part of a group living outside Ft. Christanna in Virginia in 1717-1720. The group dispersed after losing the protection of the fort against their traditional enemies, some going to live with the Catawba in South Carolina, some going north to Pennsylvania, and some remaining in the border area between Virginia and North Carolina. Those who went to Pennsylvania settled near Sunbury, in Northumberland County, formed from Cumberland and other counties in 1772.

In my research most of the Melungeon COLLINS migerated from Virginia across the border into NC then branched off some going south and others west into SW Virginia and Tennessee and later points further west but usually staying close to the mountain ranges.

Several of us researching these lines believe that the Melungeon COLLINS come from
old Thomas Collins Sr. born before 1710 was the father and or grandfather of the historical Tennessee Melungeon Collins. At least one of Thomas Collins parents (unknown) was probably full blood Saponi Indian.

Collins family history handed down from father to son was; “The Collins were living in Virginia as Indians before they migrated to North Carolina, and they stole the name Collins from white settlers” ( Will Allen Dromgoole’s 1890 interview with Calloway Collins, (Melungeons And Other Pioneer Families.)

As many of us know the Indian names were discouraged and most took up surnames of persons that they looked up to or admired.

Other Collins men who were associated with Thomas Collins Sr. in New Kent, later Louisa County, Va. were probably his brothers. They were Samuel Collins, John Collins and William Collins. ( These four Collins men would have been born late 1600 to very early 1700's...Thomas b. before 1710 which was within timeline of Ft.Christanna)Thomas sold land on Pumunkey River 1747 so my feelings is that Thomas was one of the brothers that stayed in Virginia later selling land and moving to Flatt River in Granville Co. NC which later became Orange Co. NC.
NOW>>>>>was John Collins,brother to Thomas, John Collins of Bertie Co. NC?

Another interesting piece of the puzzle is a man by the name of Solomon D. Collins

{The parentage of Solomon D. Collins remains uncertain. Grohse represents him to be the son of Solomon Collins of Cumberland County, PA, (born about 1760 - died 1838 in Lewis Co. VA, now WV) probably derived from family tradition. Until recently, this seemed unusual in that Pennsylvania was not thought of as a Melungeon population center. However, it now seems certain that at least one branch of the Melungeon tree springs from the Saponi Indian tribe of Colonial Virginia. This tribe was part of a group living outside Ft. Christanna in Virginia in 1717-1720. Those who went to Pennsylvania settled near Sunbury, in Northumberland County, formed from Cumberland and other counties in 1772. Thus, a Melungeon Solomon Collins Revolutionary War veteran from Pennsylvania is certainly possible.

Why Solomon applied for Revolutionary pension in Lewis County VA/WV in 1818 is not known, unless Samuel Z. Jones, who attested to his service, lived there. Interestingly, he did not receive payments directly, but through R. W. Collins of Lewis County, possibly a brother. Some sources say the pension was denied, but a copy of the approved pension is in the author's possession (S39331).}(source Terry Johnson)

To me it appears that one of Thomas brothers did migerate north settling around Sunbury,Pa. This would be the father or grandfather of Solomon D. Collins.

Last week I visited Richard Haithcock's photo page and there seen a picture of Jessie Collins listed as Saponi. I couldn't believe my eyes so I copied the picture and sent it along with a picture of my g-grandfather Richard Collins to Linda. Linda is going to post the two pictures. I would be interested in any comments.





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Life is a Rainbow made up of Many Different Colors.....

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Linda,
Did you forget to post the pictures of the two Collins men..Jessie & Richard ?

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Life is a Rainbow made up of Many Different Colors.....

[Linda]

I think I was waiting for you to dig out the photo and scan it again. Was that a wash out?

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

I tried but my scanner is not working. I guess it is another piece of equipment that needs to be retired. I thought I had email you...the memory is gone..mind next http://winwinworld.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif

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Life is a Rainbow made up of Many Different Colors.....

[Linda]

Okay here's the original photos you sent

http://www.saponitown.com/images/collins.jpg
http://www.saponitown.com/images/collin2.jpg

Maybe we should just call them the Bobsy twins. Could you all fill us in on who is who?

[This message has been edited by Linda (edited 03-21-2002).]

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Top:
Richard Collins born 1858 McDowell County,WV; son of John W. & Mary (Roark) Collins; grandson of Meredith & Mary (Holloway) Collins

Bottom:
Jesse Collins....I kind of stole it from Richard Haithcock's Site when I noticed they looked so much alike.

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Life is a Rainbow made up of Many Different Colors.....

[redfox]

I also have a picture of a jesse collins that lot very similar that was married to stella collins. The person is very close to looking to this jesse. Who was this jesse collins?

[Linda]

This photo is from Grey Wolf of the Mahenip band of the Saponi in Missouri. The name of the man in the photo is James Franklin Collins

http://www.saponitown.com/images/jamesfranklincollins.jpg

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

Can anybody enlighten us on any information concerning Jesse Collins. Who were his parents? When & where was he born? Is it possible that they are somehow connected.



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Life is a Rainbow made up of Many Different Colors.....

[collins]

Mecou, I am from the Collins Saponi from Missouri that moved to Texas during the Great Depression times. Jesse is a common family name. I am not sure the connection of this certain one but I bet RedFox will have an idea. Most of us have heard of James Franklin Collins and or have seen that picture especially the researchers in the family. I would bet that GreyWolf would also know something of several Jesse's in the Collins family.

[collins]

Mecou, opps, I just went to search out that picture cause I remembered it. I found it.
That is a picture of Malissa, Jesse and Joseph Collins. Joseph is the man in this cropted photo. Joseph was the son of Aaron Collins born in 1832 son of Stephan Collins and Mary Lang Collins. Stephan was the son of Aaron Collins born 1773 in North Carolina son of David Collins of 1748 to 1750. The other one of James Franklin Collins is also a croped photo. The others in that one are Oliver Collins, Lindy Collins, Ella Collins, and Elsie Collins. James Franklin Collins was the son of Leonard Collins. This latter photo is in the possession of Elton Collins. Elton is my Great Grandmothers' nephew.

[redfox]

James Franklin was my great great grandfather Dora Minnie Was my my grandmother.
Jesse was James franklins son 3-29-1884.

[sammarroq]

Most of us have heard about the MELUNGEONS. The main core surnames being COLLINS* GIPSON*
BOWLING*GOINS*SHEPHARD*MULLINS*&JOHNSON .
It now seems certain that at least one branch of the Melungeon tree springs from the Saponi Indian tribe of Colonial Virginia. This tribe was part of a group living outside Ft. Christanna in Virginia in 1717-1720. The group dispersed after losing the protection of the fort against their traditional enemies, some going to live with the Catawba in South Carolina, some going north to Pennsylvania, and some remaining in the border area between Virginia and North Carolina. Those who went to Pennsylvania settled near Sunbury, in Northumberland County, formed from Cumberland and other counties in 1772.

In my research most of the Melungeon COLLINS migerated from Virginia across the border into NC then branched off some going south and others west into SW Virginia and Tennessee and later points further west but usually staying close to the mountain ranges.

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Life is a Rainbow made up of Many Different Colors.....

Does anyone know the resouce/s for Brenda's post?

Shirley

[PappyDick]

Seems to me most of it has been documented on these forums; and some of the better resources (Forest Hazel on enclaves, Pat Elder on who the Melungeons really are, Bill Childs on the genealogical proofs -- among others) are still posting. Is there some particular factoid here, for which you need the documentary backup?

[sammarroq]

Seems to me most of it has been documented on these forums; and some of the better resources (Forest Hazel on enclaves, Pat Elder on who the Melungeons really are, Bill Childs on the genealogical proofs -- among others) are still posting. Is there some particular factoid here, for which you need the documentary backup?


Pappy,

Thanks for the reply, I was just looking for the resource/s that would show these particular families as part of the tribe living outside Ft. Christanna. I have read Pat's book as well as Richard Carlson's dissertation and it seems clear my Gibson's were Saponi, except I have not been able to pin them directly to this group outside Ft. Christanna.

I wish Brenda were here as I am sure she could answer many questions for me as our families moved together all the way to Nicholas County, WV, where mine still reside.:(

I really pray things are well with her, as I know she's family; she has the same features as my grandmother did.

Shirley

[sammarroq]

Pappy,

Thanks for the reply, I was just looking for the resource/s that would show these particular families as part of the tribe living outside Ft. Christanna. I have read Pat's book as well as Richard Carlson's dissertation and it seems clear my Gibson's were Saponi, except I have not been able to pin them directly to this group outside Ft. Christanna.

I wish Brenda were here as I am sure she could answer many questions for me as our families moved together all the way to Nicholas County, WV, where mine still reside.:(

I really pray things are well with her, as I know she's family; she has the same features as my grandmother did.

Shirley

I just wanted to expound a little more...I have posted numerous times about Martin Gibson and have been looking for his parents. You've all been so helpful in my search. I am just searching for any resources that may give me some answers.

Shirley

[Judy Gibson]

Cleland,
I believe we ARE Saponi. You should really contact Richard Haithcock if you can here in Ohio. HE was a big help with me finding info.
Judy

[tianicwanga]

hi
I conformed that my g-grandparents Mela G. and William Pitts are listed on the Maryland census as coloured and altinate race .
now I am looking for my grand ffather's indian family I beleave that he could have been part Saponi .
His name was Samuel Booker and he was born in Virginia and I was told that he was also part indian but no tribe was ever mentioned.
We do know that he was at least 1/8th white and that both our african ancestor and white ancestor came from London England together.
Does anyone have any information on any Saponi relation to the Booker family of Northern Virginia?
If so please post or email me at tianicwanga@yahoo.com , tianicwanga@blackindians.com or tianicwanga@comcast.net
thank you

[tianicwanga]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture006.jpg (http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/TIANICWANG/Picture006.jpg)
this is the pictures of Upper left my grandfather William Henry Cheeks ; upper middle my grandmother Daisy Wright Cheeks ; Upper right corner Daisy's mother my G-grandmother Minnie Gibson; Bottom pitcure left to right Me, my father Theodore Mack Booker and my mother Betty Cheeks Booker i am trying to post pictures of my grandfather amd mother Samuel booker and Quinnie pitts having scanner problems will post soon
thanks
tia
<!-- / message -->

[tianicwanga]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w286/tianicwanga/scan.jpg this is a picture of my grandmother Quinnie Pitts and my Grandfather Samuel Booker in the top picture.adn me and my parents in the bottom picture.

[Wachinika]

Tia,
Thank you for sharing your family pictures with us. Such a great looking family of handsome men and more beautiful women. They all look very nice. It is a joy to be among other people who have grown up with the same family history. I admire how hard you’re working on the genealogy. I tend to get off into the general history looking for trends and migration patterns. For me the faces of our families tell the story some of us don’t possess in written history. Good luck to you and again thank you.:)

[tianicwanga]

Hi Wachinika
thank you .
tia

[beeleaf]

Cool pictures! Mind if I sneak another one in here? This is my gggrandpa George Frank Bouldin, son of William Bouldin (Bowling) and Joanna Collins of Patrick Co, VA.

http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/5683/2141695170030494748S500x500Q85.jpg

[sammarroq]

Tia and Beeleaf,

Thanks for sharing your family photos, they are priceless:) .