Suponi(a) Alice Colley?

[mrspatino]

My Great G G Grandmothers name was Suponia Alice Colley. I have done exstensive searches on her name with no luck, other than where she is layed to rest.
She is Buried in Wyandot Mission Cemetary in Upper Sandusky Ohio, even her death records seem to be inacurate. I have a few theories and would like some feed back.
first theory is that her records were not legible and that her name was alice colley and her tribe is Suponi.
My Other theory is that her parents named her Suponia and added the (a) as sort of a reminder of who she is and where she came from. Any Ideas please let me know? I am exausted in trying to locate anything on her please help.

[This message has been edited by mrspatino (edited 03-21-2002).]

[Linda]

Welcome. Any of our Ohio folks want to tell her about the Upper Sandusky? Maybe know something about the name?

[saponi56]

Greetings once again, I would love to reply. #1.The Colly or Colley surname was found on the Virginia - Carolina line at or near Fort Christanna, Virginia #2. In 1755, A John Austen is recorded as a Saponia Indian in Rowan County, North Carolina with a Susquhanna Mary requesting a pass to the Catawba Nation. #3. There is a Female named Saponia in 1850 in a Carolina County also. Mrs. Patino I congradulate you on Saponi ancestory.

[Linda]

Cool. I thought that evidence about Susquehanna Mary was very interesting. I would say that demonstrates movement back and forth between Saponi in VA and PA (does the Susquehanna valley extend beyond PA? If so, throw that in.)

That's very cool she's buried in a mission cemetery on the Upper Sandusky. CarriesWater, maybe you can summarize the Indian settlements there. I think this lends credence to my theory that the "Blackfoot of the Seneca" which has a passing reference historically, stood for our Blackfoot/Saponi. Isn't it the amalgamation of tribes in that area that were referred to as Seneca, while people who travelled through there noted "there was nary a Seneca amongst them."

[mrspatino]

I am so happy right now I dont know what to think I dont want to get too excited, I was burnt out for a while on this. I did alot of research in Upper Sandusky I could not find a marriage certificate for here and my GG Grandpa or a Birth certificate, however her cemetary record and tomb stone give a birth date and a death date but there are 3 different death dates. My indian brothers and sisters in my community here say that name changes and dates are common for Indian people back in the day. Have I said 100 Thank You's from my Soul! we'll talk more!

[Linda]

Yes congratulations. I'm very happy for you.

[mrspatino]

Hello Carries Water & Linda!
I just wanted to say thankyou first of all so much for being so helpful & welcoming, I think right now I am just excited , scared and confused all at the same time. I dont want to overwhelm you I just feel like finaly someone I can talk to! I wanted to share the rest I have on My Grandma Suponia . this is how the cemetary record looks.
OLD Mission Cemetary
Lot 85
Garfield, (Colley) Suponia
Alice b. 1857 d. 1886, or 1888
or 1891
She is Burried next to my Grandpa David, when I went to the cemetary I layed Tabacco down for them. I want to learn the traditions of my grandmother (s), I have had dreams of her since I was young but have never seen her picture or realy known anything about her.She is back on my fathers side and I had no contact with him from ages 1- 17. When we started having contact we started talking about what he knew about the indian side, at one time we had a huge board with our family tree on it and now it is missing but remember it saying next to My Grandma Mary Little who was Suponias' mother inlaw in parenthesis it said (Blackfeet). That was 10 years ago. My dad has also said stuff like oh we are Black/Irish, well in my research I have also seen that Indian people would write this in on the cencus so they would not be removed. My Father just would so oh that is a tem they used for the Welch. Then there are the stories oh your Cherokee but we dont know from where and oh your Lumbee and nobody had any answers so I got tired of of them saying this and that I wanted to know the truth and what tribe, so I started doing research, none of my family is on the Cherokee rolls or the Wyandot rolls from Upper Sandusky. All Cencus I saw of them says W for white and I just know it is not true...I met another woman who has family in the Old Mission Cemetary and her people I belive are Ojibwa, so that Cemetary holds more than just Wyandot people.
> > So you think that I am Suponi huh? I hope so unfortunetly there probably is no way to prove it. Until the other night when I was doing research I had never heard of the Suponi, I know Anishenabe people and South West people but not East people.
> > Ahhh I am excited, please write me back.

[Linda]

It sure is a pleasure to be sharing this moment with you. I know what a thrill it is to have one of those moments of recognition, not only recognizing who you are, but having others recognizing you as well.

There's proof and then there's proof. You know there's NDN in your family and you've got 550 Nations possible. So you start narrowing things down with bits here and there. You've got what, four good circumstantials? Upper Sandusky, Suponia/Saponia, Colley, Blackfoot. Reasonable, neighborly people are going to realize that odds are there's something to this concentration of clues pointing to the same source, especially since, as you say, it's been slim pickings till now, then boom, four juicy ones. A legalistic/academic mindset could come in and pick apart every one of those and maintain there's no "proof." But we're not opposing lawyers in a courtroom, and we're not going for our doctorate. We're neighbors and likely kin. We can recognize one another with all six of our senses, not just operate on the logic circuit that legalistic recognition relentlessly relies on. What a relief.

CarriesWater has a great find in his book. It's a court case from Ohio about some guy who contested his arrest on the grounds that the sheriff was not a white man. The court threw out his argument, stating that plenty of officials in their town had NDN blood and tough luck, you still have to do what we say. This one case illustrates so much of what was happening in the "pioneer" days of the midwest.

People were streaming there from out of the south who'd been shunned, second class citizens for some "taint" in their blood, they get further west, gang up together and next thing you know they're running for sheriff or county commissioner. Don't fret about the white ID. There were lots of "white" (wink, wink) folks around.

[pennyjim]

>>There were lots of "white" (wink, wink) folks around.<<

And my but don't so many carry a tan differently and better than most of those folks we meet from Europe?

I was having supper over at a crossroads known as the Old Drugstore with mama and good ol' step-dad last night, and we're chatting away.

Buck's going on about something or other, and I'm sitting there looking at him, the very image of the men pictured in video at the Pembroke web site, his shock of white hair floating over his head, as he tells his story and eats his ham biscuit.

This man's white, he'll tell you, as would his parents and grandparents.

Yet, he goes by the name "Buck." He knows of the old NDN burial ground over by an old track of land. He carries a Tuscaroran surname, as did his mother. He moves in his own time, and speak in his own measure.

He is in tune with the land and the seasons as no other man I've known.

No, I doubt he'd pass muster as an NDN, but I just have to wonder about those survivors behind him. How long did it take them, and how many sacrifices did they make before their progeny were known as white.

I'm thinking there's a whole lot of native ancestry purposefully hidden way back there.

jp

[mrspatino]

Ha ha ha, You guys are great!
Yes not that my brothers and sisters here are judgemental but it is a little more.... hmm.. You have to prove yourself in this community.
I live my life in the Anishenabe Traditions.. I sing with a Traditional drum. I try. I have also learned Lakota ways which seem more of who I am than Anishenabe, but Neither is who I am, I just feel something missing. I want to know my traditions. Indian folk here are wonderful and have taken me in dont get me wrong it just is not me. I just Respect all of the teachings I have been given, they are true blessings that have changed my whole short 27yr life. You have been blessings because I finaly feel some sence of acceptance.
I know that I have not seen you with my eyes and I know none of us have met, but you are all in my heart. My Blood.... I know it this time. I dont feel the guessing are you Blackfoot are you Cherokee are Wyandot I just feel Saponi & I have just started to learn what that is.


[This message has been edited by mrspatino (edited 03-08-2002).]

[mrspatino]

Linda I am going to resend that page from the Cemetary, because when I blew it up and faxed it, names were cut off but you asked me if these names Wall, Clark, Allen, Hall, Boyd, Boone, & Smith were also there in the cemetary... Every last one of those names is on the same page I sent you and they are all burried in the same section of the cemetary, I coppied that page from a book when I was in Upper Sandusky It is only 1 page. I dont think that it was 140 page book of people in that cemetary it is a big cemetary but not that big. So I am sending it to you again, Note that in the left side of the page it says Section D- Old Part. Also I am going to post on the events part of the Forum, University of Michigan Ann Arbor Pow Wow is Easter Weekend if any body is interested in coming up!

[Linda]

I got the fax. It is intriguing. All those names are there. It would be an interesting project to research them and see where they all come from and what families they are connected with. You may have found yourself a community.

I have a friend who was trying to find out what tribe her family was from. In the process of tracing their movements cross-country over many generations she noticed that about 30 other families were moving along with them. She traced them all from OK to Bertie County, NC. They're Tuscarora. The community remained together for about 150 years. It wasn't till the thirties that they scattered and "forgot" knowing each other.

[mrspatino]

Yea it is a very interesting place to visit, The history is amazing lots of indian folk there at one time, alot were removed to OK The mission is still standing in the cemetary it was a Methodist mission, I believe the church that is there is still Methodist. Not sure though. How common do you think it was for European people with no Indian family to be burried in an Indian mission Cemetary? It's not like it is the only Cemetary in town. There is a book about that town and what was going on in those times and the writing was not very favorable when it came to the indians in the area. Very Racist you know the usual stuff written in history books.

[Linda]

I don't know, wouldn't the Methodists have histories on their own churches? I suppose once most of the NDNs had been removed others might have taken over the church without changing the name. The earliest burial I saw was in 1847. When did the Wyandot leave? Maybe there's a lot more to investigate here. Don't the Mormons have tons of church records? Anybody know?

[mrspatino]

I think their removal was 1842, That was when the last of their land was "sold" in a treaty, The Mormons hmm I am not sure I know they have nooooooooo Information at all on my line of the Garfield family nothing I have tried. No records of any of them, about 75% of my research was leg work in Upper Sandusky and the Detroit library Burton Collection.
I am going to try to get down to the Library next week, and After the Ann Arbor Pow Wow I am going to steel my husband away and go down to Upper Sandusky. Ther is some sort of mystery there, because it was not just Wyandot in that Cemetary there were other nations burried there. A woman I sweat with has family there and she is going through the same thing I am.