Researching Rutherfordton, N.C. Blackfoot Indains

[Beansoup]

I'm stuck; I only have two family names to go by, Carpenter and Hyman (or Hymen).

I welcome any suggestions on how to start research in the N.C. area.

[Buffalowm]

Hi,
My grandmother was Haliwa Saponi, she met my grandfather Zachariah Hyman somewhere around the Rocky Mt NC area. I always knew Hyman to be a Jewish name, but he was much older than she was (he was born in the early 1800's) and probally had the name because of his mother or someone in the family at that time was taken in to slavery and they were Indian, but bought as a slave. He appeared to be an Indian. He is my grandfather on my mother's side of the family. My mother's grandmother (on my mom's side) was Saponi and her grandfather was we think Tuscarora and Saponi.

Let me know what you find out.


Jade

[Bill Childs]

Beansoup,
You may have already done so and I missed it, but could you post the specific names and any associated dates and locations for the ones you're looking for?

Jade,
I've seen "HYMAN" also as HAYMAN, HYRAM/HIRAM and curiously as HARMAN/HARMON.
Bill

[Buffalowm]

Hey guys, my side of the Hyman's you may be familiar with:
Earl Hyman ( plays grandpa Huxtable on the cosby show) and Phyllis Hyman (the singer). Uncle Earl is my mother's brother and he was born in Rocky Mt , NC. Phyllis' father is my grandfather's nephew. As you can tell our Native American roots are deep, it you have seen them.

Jade

[Buffalowm]

Beansoup and Bill,
Here are the Hymans in my family. Top pic l to r aunt Johnsie, Uncle Earle, and Mom. Bottom pic l to r Aunt Johnsie, Phyllis and Mom. Other pic, my nephew and myself.

Jade

[Buffalowm]

Bill,
How do I get the pictures to show on reply? It says they are uploaded, but I can't see them.

Jade

[Bill Childs]

Jade,
I don't think that feature works.
Scan your pics to Linda Carter sissipaha@saponitown.com , let her know which thread you want them posted to and she'll get it done.
Bill

[Bill Childs]

Beansoup,
Do you have full names for your people with approximate time-frames?
Bill

[Buffalowm]

Beansoup,

I went to the library to do a little research on my Harris and Plummer sides and I ran across an entry in the NC 1870 census book for Ishmeal Hyman who is my great grandfather. I found out that he is actually indian (Tuscarora or Croatan). I found out that the Tuscarora helped the Europeans who settled in Martin Co (city of Hamilton) to fight the Civil War. The Tuscarora mostly moved to other areas and the Croatans move further down the Roanoke River and now they are known as Lumbee. My great grandmother (Cassandra) was listed as a slave or servant. She was also an indian. I could always see the indian in both sides of my family and knew within my heart that there was not mixing with other races except maybe with the European who took my gr grandmother on both sides of my family into slavery.

So the Hyman is just the name she had to take when she became a slave. I am so excited to find this out. I wasn't even looking for info on the Hyman side .

Hope this will be helpful.

Jade

[Buffalowm]

Beansoup and Bill,

I went to see my eldest daughter in Rocky Mt NC Saturday and while I was there I asked how far Hamilton NC (Martin Co) was from there. I found out that it was only about 30 miles. I rode over there because my grandfather and gr grandfather were from Hamilton and Oak City. Well guess what I found out. I had originally heard that they were Tuscarora. I couldn't find any info on Hymans in either Hamilton or Oak City, but I remembered reading about the pow wow in Windsor that the Tuscaroras have every year. I rode over to Windsor (about 20 miles from Hamilton) and I asked around but could not get any info. While on my way back to Hamilton just outside of Windsor I saw a sign that pointed down a road that said Indian Woods. A storm was coming up so I just made my way back home. When I got home I looked up Indian Woods and found out it was once a Tuscarora reservation that was bought and used for plantations. I dug a little deeper and found out one the census for the Indian Woods area that there are many indians still living there even now. These were the Tuscarors that did not go north. There are many Hymans and others in Indian Woods. They are all listed as Mulatto after the land was bought out by Europeans. So.... Hymans are Tuscaror in that part of Martin County. When I crossed the Ronoake River I could feel the presence of my ancestors and I began to cry uncontollably. I am going back to Hamilton to Indian Woods and hopefully I can find someone older that may be a relative or give me some information. Other indian names in Indian Woods are: Rascoe, Lankford, Ruffin, Joyner, Smallwood, Cherry, Bryant, Demory, Manning and Williams and they are all listed as Mullatto on the 1920 census. Others that do not live in Indian Woods are the whites and the blacks that live in that county. Even today it is the same way. I tell you, Grandfather is showing me daily the things that are the true desires of my heart.

Jade

[saj]

Jade,
Just in case you haven't been to this website, here it is..and Indian Woods Reservation..
I would love to know who that James Allen was on the list of treaty signers...
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncbertie/tuscarra.htm#census
They have pictures of their 2004 picnic..the toddlers are so cute in their outfits..Saj

[vance hawkins]

You mentioned "Joiner". My great great grandparents who lived in NE Arkansas (David B. Brown (1822-1865) and his wife Hariet (1818-1886), maiden name Guess on their marriage license). They raised 4 children of their own and 3 orphans.

The orphans were Nancy Looney, Nancy Joiner, and Thomas McNutt. Thomas McNutt married David's younger sister and Nancy Joiner married David's younger brother. One family story (not proven and perhaps not provable) says one of those girls and perhaps both, were actually half sisters to Harriet (about 10-20 years younger than her if I recall it right), so Hariet's mother's maiden name might be Joiner or Looney. We just don't know, and I am thinking we may never find out.

I have never brought this up here before as I thought this was more related to the side of my family believed and shown to be of Cherokee/Caucasian heritage, and I'd never seen the Joiner name associated with the Cherokee, so I thought she was probably White.

Jade -- I tried to talk with most people I came across at the lake last week, but you and I never got around to it, somehow we jus didn't sem to be in the same place at the same time. Wish I had. Yall live in a pretty part of the country.

vance

[Buffalowm]

Saj ,
I went back to Bertie Co NC today to Indian Woods and there lie my Hyman relatives. Indian Woods was a Tuscarora reservation in the late 1700's and early 1800's. There are not too many graves out there and some are unmarked, but I did find out today that everyone who is buried out there is Tuscaroran. I am so excited.

Vance,
I'm sorry I didn't get to talk with you much at the campout. Next year that will be a priority.

Jade

[saj]

Jade,
That is AMAZING!!!
Is the current area in Bertie for Indian Woods by Woodville?
Vance, in the Bertie co census records..I looked in 1870 and there are Joyners there in the Woodville Township area..and Byrum families too in Coleraine? (would have to go back now and see if I had that exactly right but close...all in Bertie. I used the link,
census online.com and there are several Bertie co NC Census's there. I wondered where the Martin co fit in and bertie and Martin are right next to each other.
Sue J

[Buffalowm]

Sue J,
Woodsville area is a community in Windsor. Indian Woods is also, but it is different in that is was a reservation. You can almost hear the ancestors call out to you in spirit. Sounds strange doesn't it. When I first drove on to the actual reservation grounds it seemed as though there was a strong smell of sage. I asked my friend that was with me did she smell anything and she said she could smell sage....(awesome huh?)

Jade

[Buffalowm]

Vance,
There are Joyners in Indian Woods cemetery. The other names are: Rascoe, Jones, Williams, Hyman, Cherry, Manning ,Demory, Smallwood, Bryant, Ruffin and Lankford all listed as Mullatto on the 1920 census. In fact all these people lived on the reservation grounds after the Civil War. From what I have gotten from people in the area these were the decendents of the Tuscaroras who stayed in the area when the others went north.

Jade

[saj]

Jade,
It doesn't seem strange to me to hear the ancestors calling. We have a bond with them.
So, Indian Woods and current Woodville are different? But, how would we find the census for Indian Woods now? I didn't see anything specific for that. Unfortunately, place names changed..counties changed..that makes it more difficult to find some things...
Well, I need to go to sleep..Sue J

[vance hawkins]

Jade, I just went back to emails a relative sent me. Her folks left Oklahoma for California during the 1930s "dust bowl", and their descendants still live there. Her husband is descended from my grandma's oldest sister.

She seemed to have more documentation of who we were than the rest of the family (with grandma a close second).

Grandma's sister was Etta Richey Davenport. I called her Aunt Ettie when I was a kid, but she was a great aunt. I remember seeing her entire back yard as a garden full of vegetables with her about 80 years old, and I wondered how she dug it all up herself, which she did. She was b. 1870s Choctaw Nation I believe, d. in mid 1960s I think. She lived in Marlow, Ok, which in earlier timed was part of the Chickasaw Nation, not moving out of it as did my grandparents. It was her son that went to Californiain the 30s. According to my relative, Aunt Ettie was to have told her that "Harriet's mother was a Joiner or a Looney". My relative and I both thought of nothing but Cherokee for years and years, and I never saw a Cherokee surnamed "Joiner" but there are Cherokee Looney's. But in the last 5 years, thanks to this forum, I have expanded my research beyond Cherokee and I am finding all kinds of stuff.

Well I went back and reread all my emails from this California Davenport relative -- and she mentioned there are McNutt's & Joiner's, Looney's, Guest's/Gist's/Guess, Brown's in Blount County, Tn after 1800 some time. This county was ceded from the Cherokee around 1800 (give or take a decade) and I need to look up the exact date. Other of my ancestors lived there when it was in the Cherokee Nation (Wood's, Hamilton, Dickson and I think Richey (there is an orphan Gidoen Richey there and my John in S In has a Gideon Richey living near him that might be a brother, same time frame as the orphan, born same generation to be a brother). John Woods received a passport to work as a blacksmith in the Cherokee Nation at least from 1801-1803 (dates I've seen) per request from Chief Glass himself, if I recall it right -- need to reread it tho. My direct ancestor in Blount Count was also named John Woods. I don't know if it is the same John Woods, tho, but it might be. Mine lived there from the late 1780s til 1806 when the family went to Gibson Co., In.

Anyhow, if g-g-grandma Hariet Guess Brown's mother was a Joiner as my great aunt told her descendants (which we can't prove), it might be they came through Blount Co. Tn when it was still part of the Cherokee Nation. So i need to find a link from the Joiner's in Blount County, Tn to the area around Indian Woods that you are talking about. Also I noticed she mentioned "Williams" but I didn't look too closely at it. You mention them in that cemetary, so maybe I should print out all those emails from my Davenport cousin and look over them more carefully. She, like myself until recently, never looked past the generation that lived on Cherokee lands.

Thank you very much for this information. Oh those Joiners and others in Blount I mentioned are not listed as white, I believe it said "B" or "C". Someone said "C" meant colored and was from "Free Person of Color". Is that correct? Again, I need to print out those emails and look over them better. A lot of information she wrote me I couldn't make heads or tails of. Well now it seems more relevant.

thanks again

vance

[Buffalowm]

Sue,
Indian Woods census and other communities in Windsor NC (Bertie Co) can be found if you go to GenWeb then choose NC and then choose counties and choose Bertie. Choose the link NC genweb on line archives and it will bring you to the page that has all the info. There are also other years listed if you pull up Bertie Co NC. They have all kinds of infomation besides census. Their website through GenWeb has much more info than other counties I have looked at on that website.

Enjoy!

Jade

[saj]

Jade,
Thanks for the help.
Some of the genwebs are excellent while others have little info on them.
Did you see the Indian Woods Census lists I posted? For Bertie Co NC? Maybe someone else can benefit from these...
Thanks, Sue J