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Red Metis
01-25-2006, 05:44 PM
Greetings!

I was wondering if anyone had any information on tribes living in Halifax county, Virginia, in the late 1800s, around 1880 and forward from that time? My g-grandfather came from that area with his family (the Brown's) and settled here in Florida. I'm trying to find out who they were and why they left Virginia. Thanks in advance to all.

Drae

Linda
01-25-2006, 11:31 PM
Halifax county is the home of the Haliwa Saponi. The word Haliwa is taken from combining the first syllables of the words Halifax and Warren (counties). The Indian people there are still very isolated. It was big news last month that they're building a theme park in Roanoke Rapids. It will be the first time Haliwa people will have someplace relatively close to find good jobs.

You may want to check with them, but keep in mind, they're going for federal recognition and the guidelines necessitate keeping rolls limited to people who still live in that locale. It's just something they have to do.

Any of the history we discuss on this site will be relevant and the genealogy is about the same tribal mix. I know of Browns a few counties over with stories of Indian blood.

Saponi 1
01-25-2006, 11:34 PM
Halifax, VA is home to the VA side of the High Plains Sappony,
Person County, NC is the NC side to the same tribe.

Halifax and Warren Counties, NC are the homes of the Hali-wa
Saponi hence the name.

Saponi1

Linda
01-25-2006, 11:37 PM
Halifax county is the home of the Haliwa Saponi. The word Haliwa is taken from combining the first syllables of the words Halifax and Warren (counties). The Indian people there are still very isolated. It was big news last month that they're building a theme park in Roanoke Rapids. It will be the first time Haliwa people will have someplace relatively close to find good jobs.

You may want to check with them, but keep in mind, they're going for federal recognition and the guidelines necessitate keeping rolls limited to people who still live in that locale. It's just something they have to do.

Any of the history we discuss on this site will be relevant and the genealogy is about the same tribal mix. I know of Browns a few counties over with stories of Indian blood.

Saponi 1
01-26-2006, 12:00 AM
It seems they are asking about Halifax County, VA.

Saponi 1
01-26-2006, 12:05 AM
For centuries the Sappony have called home the area known as the High Plains Indian Settlement located among the rolling hills found between the waters of the Hyco River, Mayo Creek, and Blew Wing Creek. The North Carolina-Virginia border line runs through the heart of this close-knit Indian community which is part of the southeastern section of Halifax County, Virginia and the northeastern section of Person County, North Carolina. Between 1911 and 1913, both states officially recognized the Indians living in this Settlement.

Dreaminghawk
01-26-2006, 11:52 PM
Becky has gotten 2 hugs from Chief Otis Martin in less than a week.... at Golden Corral last sunday night and again at the Person County Historical Society meeting tuesday night. I'm sipping on some "Sappony" bottled water right now. For over a century, the Sappony...aka the Indians of Person Co/Indians of Halifax co, Va (when the states recognized them as ndns but not as one tribe) .....aka "Cubans" ....... have defined themselves as members of one of seven families or clans. These are MARTIN, COLEMAN, STEWART(STUART), JOHNSON, TALLY, EPPS, and SHEPARD.
Sorry, no BROWNS. For Browns, look to eastern Va roots among the Cheroenhaka and tribes in that area.

nativelady
01-27-2006, 06:20 AM
Hi,

I have not been on this site in awhile. However, I go to Halifax County VA often. I still have family there. My grandmother is 86 and knows quite a bit about the area. I went home for Christmas. It was about 60 degrees. I loved it. We are from a Clover.

It was home to the Occaneechee Indians, Cherokees, Saponi, Tuscaroras, Tutelo. The Monacan are not to far away. There cemetry from what I was told is about 40 miles away in Danville.

My great grandmother was a Coleman from Halifax County VA

Greens, Fosters, Browns, Lacks, Collins, Rice, Farrells, Grennin, Garretts, Pleasant, Mortin( not sure of the spelling) Mitchell, Jones, King. These are some of my relatives. Distant kin or names I have seen on the cemetry stones when I went to a funeral.

Nice to be back

Dreaminghawk
01-27-2006, 03:32 PM
Nativelady, good to see you back ;-)
You make a good point. That being that Halifax co, VA is home to a virtual hodgepodge of eastern ndns and mixed bloods, not just the High Plains settlement......... and, yes, there are ndns with the Brown surname there.

Red Metis
01-27-2006, 06:36 PM
Linda, Saponi1, Dreaminghawk, and Nativelady; thank you all for the replies and patience with my questions (and ignorance!!)
I am assuming that a lot of people do not know the exact tribe of their ancestors and may never know?
Is there any particular tribe that the Brown surname is seen most often or is it pretty spread about in the area? Are they Cheroenhaka that came to Halifax from the east?

Nativelady, it's about 60 now with the sun headed for the horizon. I wish my blood were thicker...and that it was about 85.

nativelady
01-29-2006, 07:01 AM
I forgot the surnames, Wilborne, Cousins, King,Hunt,Palmer,Moss Carrington, Gibson, Powell, Scott.

Our folks did not always marry within the county. They could have married Browns from neighboring counties. I have family going from Halifax County VA back up towards Hanover County VA. Also the neighboring County in North Carolina could be a place to look. We are close to the boarder. There was alot of marriages between the people of Halifax County VA and NC. I guess Greensboro, Raleigh Durham are close to us. NC is about 50 miles from us.

On my dads moms side we are Browns. But the Browns of Hanover County.

Anyway, If I think of anything I will add it. Have a great day.

Linda
01-29-2006, 10:22 PM
Does anyone know what surnames are on the Haliwa rolls? I know of Richardson, Lynch and a few others, but I don't know if a name like Brown occurs there.

Red Metis
01-30-2006, 07:32 PM
Thank you all. It is very hard to get information and I am so far away--this computer is one of the valuable things I have (I do mean materially!). A kind of portal.

Keep me posted, please! And thank you, Linda for asking if there are any Browns on the Haliwa rolls. I see that there rolls are closed now? Is admission to many of these tribes only open to people who live on the ancestral lands?

spilleddi
02-02-2006, 01:25 AM
My Browns were from Hillsborough NC in the 1800's. I don't know if this Brown family in particular was Indian, but some of their decendents claim Indian ancestry and have Indian features. They married into my Morris family, which claimed to be from SW NC in the 1700's. Then they all eventually ended up in north east Tennessee.

Mousini78
02-06-2006, 10:13 AM
I guess I just never caught that you had Browns in your family all the time that we talked. My son-in-law had Browns in his family (his gggrandma), and they were from Alamance and Orange county. In fact, a picture of her shows very prominent features. I hope to one day find out more information about her for him. She married a Norris and lived in Person County on the borderline with Orange county. In fact, there are quite a few Browns in this cemetary.

This is the listing from her gravestone:
NORRIS (double stone)
7. Artelia B. / 3-2-1887 / 8-11-1975 / ( Cathron "Tealie" Brown. m. Apr 15, 1908 )
8. Charles / 10-29-1876 / 11-20-1968 / (s/o John & Cora Norris )

spilleddi
02-07-2006, 01:18 AM
My family was Elizabeth Brown and Isaac Morris, they married around 1800 in Hillsborough, I think thatís Alamance county? They had some kids and then went to TN. Their granddaughter, Una, told my grandma that they originally came from SW NC.

Unaís mom was a Morris, her fatherís side were Ritchie/Richeys from western Va. Pictures of Una and family show a lot of them with Indian looking features. I read here on the forum that some Ritchies may have had Saponi blood?

Anyways, several elderly relatives from this family took DNA tests that said they had enough Indian ancestry to mean something, so I figure any of these families could have had Indian blood.

Ed Yancey
02-08-2006, 11:58 PM
Nativelady, you mention your grandmother is 86 years old and knows quite a bit about Halifax County, Va. Would you mind sharing her name and contact information? We go up to Northern Granville County-Grassy Creek Community about every 2 months. Would love to talk with her as My Uncle Ed Fitts children remember staying in homes of NA who were family when going back to the Red Bank/ High Plains area. If you do not wish to publish her information you can email me at eyancey@ec.rr.com. I would really like to talk with someone of her generation and in that area. My homeplace is about 8 miles from Virgilina, in fact our mailing address was Route 1 Nelson Virginia for years until they changed to NC Address. Thanks Ed

Buffalowm
03-10-2006, 10:12 AM
Linda,
The primary names on the Haliwa rolls are , Richardson, Lynch, Harris, Silver, Copeland and Evans. There may be some Carter's because they are married to someone who's maiden name is one of the primary ones listed.

Jade

karmelhugs
09-03-2010, 12:50 PM
researching the Indian lineage of our family line. We do not have
much information.

1930 Halifax Co., Va Census - ED24 Roanoke Mag. Dist; 4 April, p.59A,
at 10, 14:
Williams, Paul; Laborer-County Road; m, Neg, 49, m30, Va, Va, Va.
(ditto), Henrietta; wife; f, Neg, 32, m27, Va, Va, Va.
(ditto), Claude H.; son, m, Neg, 21, Va.
(ditto), Maggie; dau, f, Neg, 15, Va.
(ditto), Woodrow; son, m, Neg, 12, Va.
(ditto), Grant S.; son, m, Neg, 3 + 9 months, Va.
(ditto), Swanee (?) L.; dau, f, Neg, 2 + 3 months, Va.

Next door at 11, 15:
Reid, Bell; Servant, Private Home; f, Neg, 38, W'd, m19; Va,Va,Va.
Williams, Julia A.; Mother; f, Neg, 80, W'd, m15; Va, Va, Va.

Both Bell and Julia are widowed (W'd); Bell was marr'd at 19 yrs old
and Julia marr'd at 15 yrs old.
The "m30" for Paul and "m27" for Henrietta, are their ages when each
first married.
(Their fathers and mothers were also born in Virginia.)

In 1930, Paul and Henrietta have been married about 5 years,
Henrietta being married at 27 yrs old. Grant and Swanee would then be
the children of Paul and Henrietta - the older children's mother is
Joanna, per the 1920 census.

1920 Halifax Co., Va Census; ED98 Roanoke; 24 March; p.149A., at 68, --
Williams, P. J.; Farmer; m, B, 39, Va, Va, Va.
(ditto), Joanna; wife, f, B, 40, Va, Va, Va.
(ditto), Jessie; dau, f, B, 19, Va.
(ditto), Mary; dau, f, B, 16, Va.
(ditto), J. A. (?); son, m, B, 14, Va.
(ditto), Claude; son, m, B, 11, Va.
(ditto), Andrew; son, m, B, 8, Va.
(ditto), Maggie; dau, f, B, 5, Va.
(ditto), Woodrow; son, m, B, 2, Va.

1910 Halifax Co., Va Census; ED70 Roanoke Mag.Dist; 16 April, p.87B,
at 28, 29:
Williams, Paul J.; Railroad Lab'r; m, B, 30, m1, 9, Va, Va, Va.
(ditto), Joanah; wife, f, B, 30, m1, 9, 5/5, Va, Va, Va.
(ditto), Jesie D. (?); dau, f, B, 8, Va.
(ditto), Ellen M.; dau, f, B, 6, Va.
(ditto), James A.; son, m, B, 4, Va.
(ditto), Claud H.; son, m, B, 1, Va.
(ditto), Clive S.; son, m, B, 1, Va.

Looks like Claude and Clive were twins.
(Paul & Joanah have each been marr'd once and have been marr'd for 9
years. Joanah has had 5 children and 5 are still living.)

three doors further, at 31, 32:
Blackstock, Ellen; -- , f, B, 78, W'd, 6/0, Va, Va, Va.
(ditto), William H.; G-son, m, B, 21, Va, farmer.
(ditto), Millie J.; G-dau, f, B, 13, Va.
Williams, Paul H.; farmer, m, B, 62, m1, 43, Va, Va, Va.
(ditto), Julia A.; wife, f,MU, 61, m1, 43, 8/6, Va, Va, Va, laundress.
(ditto), Allen L.; son, m, MU, 30, Va. farmer.
(ditto), Walter (?) E.; son, m, MU, 18, Va, farm laborer.
Coleman, Ryal; G-son, m, MU, 21, Va, --hand, Railroad.
(ditto), Helen N.; G-dau, f, MU, 18, Va, laundress.
Williams, Byrd; G-son, m, B, 16, Va, farm laborer.

Julia was a HARRIS! There are Harris's in that general area of
southern Virginia who are Indian.

Between the 1880s and 1920s especially, anyone not obviously 'white'
usually was listed as 'black' or 'negro' on census records,
particularly in the south - census takers weren't anthropologists -
so this is such a very subjective thing that you can't count on it
being accurate.


The family states that Paul H Williams was originally a slave
belonging to the Carringtons in Charlotte, VA and carried that name
until he moved to Clover and worked for a man named Allen Williams,
thus the Williams name.

His wife Julia Anne Harris was also a slave of the same Carrington as
Paul. She claimed to be Carrington's daughter, refusing to be
acknowledged as a Williams prior to marriage. No one remembers the
first name of the Carrington that owned the plantation. Through my
research I have learned there were many Carringtons in Virginia and
am having a hard time figuring out which one it could be.

I see the census recorded Paul H as Black. The family believes that
Paul had Irish/Indian blood as well. It was always the explanation
for the fair skin, occasional straight hair, green eyes and red hair
in the family.

It is said that Julia was part Indian as well. Maybe from the
Carrington side? But Blackfoot continues to be mentioned and it is
said to come from Julia's side of the family.

Below are additional names of Paul and Julia's children.
Susan - b.1868
Belle - b.1870
Ailis - b.1873
Anne -b.1875
Paul James b. -1881
Allen - b.1884
Florence - b.1887
Walter - b.1891

Census record identification of race is very subjective and therefore
"uncertain" at best.

In 1870 Halifax Co., Roanoke Twp, p.659A, Paul H., 21, and Julia
Williams, 22, with daughter Susan, 2, lived next door to Rebecca
Williams, 19, and the next house was Archer Williams, 31, and wife
Cornelia, 25.
Three houses after Archer lived Benjamin Carrington, 65 and wife
Lucinda, 55. The census taker's name was J.M. Carrington