The Book That Changed the World?

[Linda]

Was the 18th century revolution in Euroepan thought, the Age of Reason and Englightment, that led to the French and American Rvolutions which changed the course of Western culture and history, rip offs of North American Indian philosophies?

Jack Weatherford thinks so. He traces the origins of this revolution in thought to Rousseau and his famous writings on the "Rights of Man." Jack Weatherford says that Rousseau was influenced as a young man when he saw a play which popularized the ideas put forward in Baron de Lahontan's book "New Voyages to North-America," which was published at the beginning of the 1700s.

I've found it on-line at the Early Canadiana site and have been reading it. I find this book fascinating and open to a huge amount of productive debate. There is huge latitude for debate and controversy here. It appears some of what he wrote he may have fabricated. One of his last books was about a "Long River" supposedly flowing all the way west to the ocean which had people chasing their tails for the rest of the century. (When did Lewis and Clark make their treck)? It appears all this was a fabrication on Lahontan's part and led to his being discredited, but not after a huge popularity for his previous books.

Anyway, there's a lot of controversy here, and the one that is intriguing the heck out of me is the question of, was his characterization of Indian thought and belief and lifestyle relatively accurate? This is critically important because, if indeed, he was communicating THEIR POV then it is logical to assert that it was an exposure to the North American Indian philosophical paradigm that CHANGED THE COURSE OF WESTERN HISTORY AND CULTURE.

However, I can see someone going a long way demonstrating that the ideas Lahontan were expressing were his own longings, skepticisms and social criticism, veiled by attributing them to the "savages." In other words, it can be argued that these changes were simply part of the inevitable evolution of Western thought and it's an exaggeration to so credit the Indians here.

The really productive thing is that in order to further either of these assertions, one has to go back to study and analyze both histories. This could be a great topic for a Native American studies course, intertwined with a history of 18th century Europe, the "Enlightenment" the "Age of Reason."

If you look at what Lahontan attributed or even quotes from the Canadian Indians he knew, you would say that all those European movements were rip offs from the First Nations (of the Americas) people.

Anyway, here's just one quote


They brand us for Slaves, and call us miserable Souls, whose Life is not worth having, alledging, That we degrade our selves in subjecting our selves to one Man who possesses the whole Power, and is bound by no Law but his own Will; That we have continual Jars among our selves; that our Children rebel against their Parents; that we imprison one another, and publicly promote our own Destruction. Besdies, they value themselves above any thing that you can imagine, and this is the reason they always give for't, That one's as much Master as another, and since Men are all made of the same Clay there should be no Distinction or Superiority among them.

Here's the link to the Early Candiana online version of the text: http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/mtq?id=d0f019842c&doc=37430

[ceaustin]

Linda,
Had the Europeans involved any thought to the following quote from your letter:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"They brand us for Slaves, and call us miserable Souls, whose Life is not worth having, alledging, That we degrade our selves in subjecting our selves to one Man who possesses the whole Power, and is bound by no Law but his own Will; That we have continual Jars among our selves; that our Children rebel against their Parents; that we imprison one another, and publicly promote our own Destruction. Besdies, they value themselves above any thing that you can imagine, and this is the reason they always give for't, That one's as much Master as another, and since Men are all made of the same Clay there should be no Distinction or Superiority among them."

Then, yes, that idea could have had an impact upon world thinking, BUT, in the begining of our contact with the Europeans they branded us as savages, hardly more than animals, thereby Native Americans were not worthy to be heard.

The Europeans had been trained to believe the words of the Judeo-Christian teachings, and to discredit anything that was not from the "True Source". Hopefully all of us know that Native ideas and teachings, when understood as true Myth (the meaning, above and beyond the words) then those ideas and teachings are beautiful.

On the other hand much of the Judeo - Christian philosophy tells us how to understand what is written through what we are told, not by listening to "The Voice Within".

Seldom have I read that Native American teachings were absolute, that we must believe a certain way. Native American Law excluded.

[Linda]

I'm glad you brought this thread forward. I've been digging deeper into all this and found that a very fascinating historian, who I know from another list, Ohio Seneca Barbara Mann, has done a lot of research on Kandiaronk, (cand-EE-a-ronk) the brilliant Huron who was the person Lahontan was writing about. Lahontan was pretty thoroughly discredited by the end of the 18th century and his "Andario" (Kandiaronk) was believed to have been a figment of his imagination.

However, the facts disprove this. Kandiaronk was a well documented figure in his time. About a half dozen other Frenchmen in Canada wrote about him. He claimed to have travelled to Paris, New York and Toronto. There is documentation of a Huron diplomat in Paris in those years, and his position as spokesperson for his tribe would have made him the person to have gone on such a mission.

She writes in her book, "Native American Speakers of the Eastern Woodlands" (should be in any university library) about his exploits. What a life! He was a brilliant orator, a superb tactician who staved off the eventual absorption of the Huron (Wyandot) into the Iroquois League for as long as he lived. He was a great war captain, too. He was the epitome, ironically, of the European ideal of a "Renaissance" man, who excelled in many disciplines and had a staggering breadth of knowledge. Not only was he extremely knowledgeable about European culture (and highly critical of it), but he also knew the League's Great Law inside and out and was able to successfully maneover his way around them because of it, and win their respect. During his lifetime, the Huron were the allies of the League, and in this way, avoided being adopted by them (or consumed as he called it.)

I'm more encouraged than ever that Kandiaronk is a critically important figure in the evolution of western culture. His outlook (and that of Native Americans in general) had such an impact on European paradigms that a hundred years after he lived, the Europeans had become so much like him and his fellow Native Americans, that his words seemed too familiar to have come from a "savage" in a foreign land.- He just had to be Lahontan's alter ego.

So. . . check it out. http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/mtq?id...9842c&doc=37430 The part where he's talking starts on page 90.

In her book, "Native American Speakers of the Eastern Woodlands" Barbara has done a fresh translation from the French of this section that's part of her chapter on Kandiaronk.

The name of the chapter is "Are you Delusional?" That was Kandiaronk's response to Lahontan's insinuation that Indians did not already have knowledge of the true God.

[Tom]

I am just refreshing this.