The Richey Brothers

[Linda]

Vance sent me a school picture that had his great uncles' photos in it.
http://www.saponitown.com/images/OthoRichey.jpg
http://www.saponitown.com/images/OhotenRichey.jpg

This is what he wrote about them:


The one [on the left] was called "Otho" Richey, dad always called him "O'thur," Uncle O'thur.

The other Richey was "Hoten" Richey. . .
Both were born in the Chicasaw Nation in the 1890's near Loco in what is now Stephens county, the southern part. Back then it was called Pickens County or district.

They are grandma's youngest brothers.

Please know their father was Jeffry Hoten Richey, b. Powhatan AR. Jeffery's father was Joseph E. Richey, b. Gibson county, Indiana, 1819. Joseph's dad was John Richey, b. 1797, VA.

[This message has been edited by Linda (edited 12-02-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Linda (edited 12-02-2002).]

[vance hawkins]

Thanks Linda for puttin' them up. You did an excelent job of scanning and blowing them up! Wa-Do! They are grandma's youngest brothers. Othur (spelled phonetically as it was pronounced to me) died a very young man, about 1918 or so. There was a big flu epidemic near the end of WW1 and he somehow cought it and died. I probably met Uncle Hoten at Richey family reunions (they were held at Lake Quanah Parker in the Wichita Mountain Wildlife refuge) as a child, as I met many relations at those events. I fondly recall wakin' up in the mornin' in the tent lookin out and bein' surrounded by a herd of bison, and mom freakin'out sayin to the kids to stay in the tent until they passed through. ha ha. But honestly I have no recollection of meeting Uncle Hoten. He, like his older sister, my grandma, died in the 1960s.

Those photos were taken during the 1909-1910 school year. They ewre taken from a book "History of Tillman County, vol. 2". That's a county in SW Ok.

vance hawkins

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 12-02-2002).]

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 12-02-2002).]

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 12-02-2002).]

[Linda]

I enjoyed working on those photos. Got a sense of those boys fitting into that school. I was in junior high starting in the mid sixties, and I know kids who looked like that would have been on the edge of the class. It's painful remembering how class-ridden, or race-ridden our school was.

[vance hawkins]

well i'm honored you asked for the photo and and took the time to work on them. thanks.

Also remember the early "westerns", movies, where them made Indian people look savage and ignorant. Movies just echoed stereotypes already in the minds of the public.

On all census records you'll find my "Richey" ancestors saying they are "Caucasian" -- so it is good to see the photographs. Sayin' "Causasian" on a census record isn't proof, the photos are proof, tho, what a person looks like. I think because of a stigma or bein' around people who talk of it, well it might have made those generations try to deny their heritage. we don't know what they went through unless we take a walk in their shoes, really.

vance

[Linda]

Who knows if they were even asked. From the tidbits I've come across, there was a pretty wide latitude about who was tallied as white, (just so long as you weren't perceptibly black. That's another matter.)

It's like the Ohio case where the guy pleaded illegal arrest because he claimed the sheriff 'weren't no white man. His grandma's an Indian, everybody back east in NC knows it.' So the judge told him 'Tough, so was mine. White or no, you still gotta do what we say.' Something like that.

Nineteenth century culture along the 'frontier' had a very blind eye, I think, when it came to Indian blood. It's like my friend, John Poundstone, wrote me. He travels to Africa a lot, knows a lot of Africans and they see a difference between the way Americans and Europeans look. They can see how Indian Americans look. We don't see it, we're blind to it.

Anyway, my point is, if you moved into town and they let you enroll your kids in school, you aren't exactly going to bust in and say, 'Hey, how come you let my kids in here, we're Indian?'

We shouldn't feel like we need to apologize for them behaving that way. I've never seen any documentation that Indians whose tribes had somehow managed to remain intact, struggling to survive on reservations, were running around recruiting more Indians to come stay with them. A whole LOT of people were displaced. Come 1830 there was no place else to go but far enough west till people stopped asking questions.

[vance hawkins]

dates. Hoten & Other were born in the 1890s in the Chickasaw Nation of South Central Oklahoma. Grandma (Loney Richey Hawkins, 1883-1963) was their older sister.

Their father was Jeffery Hoten Richey, b. 1851 Powhatan, Lawrence County, Ar-d. 1926 Tillman County Ok. Their mother was Josephine Brown, descended from Brown, Guess & Looney families of Chickamaugan Cherokee heritage. Since this is Saponi site, i'll talk about the Richey's here.

Jeff's parents were Joseph E. Richey and Sarah Wayland Richey. Waylands first appear in Arkansas 1815 from Va & SC before that. One of Sarah's sisters married a Griffith surnamed man, and they hade 2 kids that appear on the Swetland Rolls of 1869 with a family of Brown's/Raper's. A Powell Brown is probably the father of the "Brown" male from this family, and Powell appears in Ga 1830, 1840 Jackson Co Al in 1850, and Lawrence Co, Ar 1860. Might be wrong about 1840 as I forgot, but the rest are right.

Joseph E. Richey was born in 1819 in Gibson Co, In. His father (John Richey, 1797 Va -- 1861 Lawrence Co., Ar.) came to Gibson Co. In. sometime between 1797 and 1817 when he is recorded as marrying Mary (Polly) Wood (1796 Tn -- d. ? Ar.)

Mary's parents were, I ma pretty sure Joseph Wood (1745- ?) and Nancy Dickson (1785- ? )listed as a "Pioneer of Indiana". Joseph might have been her husbands father, tho. I need to work on this as I think more info on these people exists. I was told the Dixon and Wood surname was found amongst the Saponi, and that the Saponi name was probably synonimous with Blackfoot. There sure are a lot of folks from Appalacia (sp?) who have the tradition of bein' Blackfoot Indian. Also the term "Tuckahoe" has popped up from this region also. I've come across "Richeys" with both these traditions, but noone that I've yet come across knows anything about its origin. I'm learnin'.

Next to Gibson County is Pike County, and there is a "Blackfoot Church" dating to the end of the 18th century, and my ancestors appear here at least by the beginning of the 19th. It says it was named "Blackfoot" because of Indians called "Blackfoot" living nearby.

John Richey was born from census records in Virginna, where we don't know. But someone here at this website found a "free man of color" named Solomon Richey in Amherst County, Va in 1810.

None of this constitutes proof Saponi heritage, but the photos are proof of Indian heritage, and the dates, locations, et cetera, are evidence. My Indiana ancestors were mixed blood Indian. They lived close to where the Blackfoot Church in Indiana was where it says Blackfoot Indians lived. They were in Va before that, which is where the Blackfoot were said to have originated.

So Linda, I am thinkin' more and more that the "Saponi" are where my Virginia Indians came from, not Pamunkey or any of the other Va tribes -- the Indiana church called "Blackfoot" sort of put it over the top for me. But as I said this isn't proof, but it sure is evidence I didn't have a few months ago.

thanks everyone

vance hawkins



[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 12-10-2002).]

[Linda]

I think your Hoten and my Francis look a lot alike. Francis said his family was from Virginia, and his daughter said we are Blackfoot.

http://www.saponitown.com/images/Hoten&Francis.jpg

[CoheeLady]

Dear Vance,
Your ancestor O'thur, made me think of my ancestor's that have the surname of Arthur. They were from Appomattox, Virginia. The Arthur's are direct ancestors of mine. Also we have a Powhatan Cash in our family, not a direct ancestor but is a brother of a direct ancestor. The Wood/Woods family still live in Nelson county, Va., they married into my Turner line. The Brown's married into my Cash line.
Sincerely,
Coheelady

[Forest]

Hi Linda
What court case are you referring to in Ohio? I'm not familiar with this one. Most of the ones I have come across deal with voting rights or school attendance. I'd be interested in finding out more about it.

[vance hawkins]

Cohee Lady,

Sorry, but I don't know anything about the Arthur surname. My Wood/s ancestors went to Indiana about 1800 also, same time my Richey's did.

We have a link to more than one "Brown" ancestor, one directly and the one mentioned (Powell) seems to have been close to my Richey/Wayland ancestors, whereas another we know was Cherokee and married into that Richey family. We don't know if or how Powell and David Brown were related. David is a great-great-grandfather of mine with known Cherokee roots.

vance

[This message has been edited by vance hawkins (edited 12-11-2002).]

[vance hawkins]

Linda,

Well, Francis does look like he could be mixed blood.

Didn't you say you had relatives/ancestors in that same area of S. Indiana or S. Illinois? Was that Francis and his relatives?

Also isn't there mention somewhere on your website something about the "Person County, Indiana, Saponi"? Where is Person County? I looked for it and can't find it on a map.

thanks

vance

[Linda]

Francis was born in Wabash County, IL in 1855. His father's family had just moved there a few years earlier after a stay somewhere in OH for a decade or two. His father was born in PA. His mother, Eleanor Ulm was born in Wabash, IL in 1832. The family had just moved there from Sullivan, IN.

Forest, I saw a copy of that newspaper article in one of Richard Haithcock's books. I know I've typed it out verbatim somewhere. I'm sure it's in one of Richard's books, but it's not in the index. I'll have to scan through the 19th century pages to find it. I'm sure it was about a defendant claiming he was not arrested legally because he said the person who arrested him was not white, but mixed Indian blooded. The judge either said it was he himself, or somebody else working in the court, who was mixed blooded too. I'm pretty sure it was Ohio. Definitely the Midwest.

[Linda]

Okay, so Francis's IN-LAWS were living in that area since about 1823. Sullivan County IN, is right on the Illinois border, a county up and over from Wabash County. Wabash County is about 40 miles from that Blackfoot church. Sullivan county is about 50 miles from it. I'm trying to sort out what John and Bess have been saying about that.

The weird thing is, there are "Blackfoot sitings" or long standing traditions of native blood, on all four of my maternal grandmother's lines. I was going to say, I just saw on a distant cousin's website that they've always said Elizabeth Pontius had Indian blood. Our respective families have been separated for 150 years I imagine.

But that's from a whole other line, not related to these Sullivan, Indiana people. They were Ulm/Smiths out of WV and Ohio.

[Linda]

Well, this is interesting. John Poundstone wrote, in the "Other Blackfoot" Prophetstown thread,


This area in what is now SW Indiana and SE/Central Illinois was not opened to white settlement until 1830.

That's something to look into -- is there something unusual about my Ulm/Smiths being there in 1823?



[This message has been edited by Linda (edited 12-11-2002).]

[Linda]

The Person County Indians are in Granville Co., NC. (They're primarily Saponi.) I may have mentioned them becanse a group of Indian descended tri-racial people moved from there in the 1850's to the county in WI where my family was. Some of my cousins are their cousins. My cousin, Jim Morley, has an incredible ged.com. His cousins are Revels out of Robeson county, and he's got an obvious native line of Powell, West, Allen coming out of central VA.

[Forest]

Hi Vance,
Person County, NC is on the Virginia border. Halifax county Virginia is the adjacent county in Virginia. The Indians of Person County, who are in the process of changing their name to Sappony, live in the High Plains community NNE of Roxboro, and spread over into Virginia. They share some common ancestors (Shepard & Stewart) with some of the families ofthe Occaneechi Band of the Saponi Nation in Alamance and Orange County NC. The core family names are Stewart and Epps, but Martin, Talley, Johnson, Shepard and Coleman are also found up there.

[Linda]

That was a good one. I'm telling what county the Person County Indians are in and I get it wrong! hahaha.

Granville's next door.

[vance hawkins]

thanks --

for some reason I thought it said "Person County Indiana" and I looked on a map of Indiana and didn't see anything listed . Now I don't know how I came to think that ???? :(

ha ha

also Linda I think your "Francis" looked more like Jeffrey Hoten Richey Sr than Jr. Hoten's first name was Jeffery but he was called Hoten because his dad was also named Jeffery and was called that. Francis has a more prominent chin than Hoten, makin' me think he resembles Hoten's dad more. Just thought I'f mention it.

vance

[saponi-lkc]

Actually, it is a pretty easy mis-read. All you gotta do is switch an a for an s. Mention of Indiana is always catching my eye, cause I think they're talking about Indians.

Your Richeys and my Francis all have that long oval face shape with prominent cheekbones and close set eyes, slightly slanted eyes. I've seen it often in people believed to have Saponi/Tutelo heritage.

[vance hawkins]

I found a photo of my father, A. O. Hawkins! online at the link below.

http://www.frederickbombers.net/WWII/hawkins_alpha_o.htm

It is a website about the town of Frederick, Oklahoma. Dad was Other and Hoten's nephew. It mentions dad's mother Loney Hawkins. Her maiden name was Richey and she was Other and Hoten's sister.

Dad got 3 battle stars, one for Pearl Harbor, one for the Battle of the Bulge, and one for Hurtgen Forest or Black Forest, I forget. His brother Joe was in the Pacific and another brother Euel Lee, was killed in Normandy.

vance hawkins

[Dan Akin]

Vance;
I cannot believe that you are that ugly if you have a father that is this handsome.
Come on Vance, let's see your picture.
Dan.

[vance hawkins]

ha ha -- thanks Dan.

but I really AM too ugly to photograph -- honest truth -- I break cameras, Dan. :)

I also wanna take this time to say thanks to everyone that was helpful in my genealogical searches. I hope I helped some a' yall along the way, too. If anyone thinks I can help their genealogy searchin', please don't hesitate to contact me at vhawkins@pacer.com. I might not be able to help any, tho.

But like water won't flow upstream, I seem to be fightin' n uphill battle that can't be won, I don't suppose. Realizin' that, I'm just gonna be silent now. When I was younger I'd run to that uphill battle head on, face in the wind. Now I just dread it, ha ha.

I don't really have anything else to contribute, and this is for the best. Some things I guess I just don't understand.

so God bless y adios, mis amigos

vance hawkins

ps - don't give up the researchin', and don't compromise your values either.

[Randy]

hi Forest Hazel
you mention this surname of Stewart in same counties of my interest, please see my new posting of March 26, 2004 under
Stewart OR Stuart - Share History Research
Do you have Stewart ancestors too?
thanks Randy

[vance hawkins]

There were early day Stewarts/Stuarts in Lawrence County, Arkansas, where my Richey's settled. These Stewarts also helped start the first Methodist church in Arkansas along with the Wayland and Rainwater families. My ancestor Sarah Ann Wayland (1829-1857, she married Joseph E. Richey in 1848) had a sister named "Mary Stewart Wayland". Her father was William Wayland (1780s-1843) and her mother we know only as "Elizabeth" Wayland. Maybe she was Stuart/Stewart -- we don't know for sure, tho.

vance

[vance hawkins]

I haven't posted on this thread in a couple of years. Reading through it brought back memories, and I see things now I wasn't comprehending back then. :)

I might have made a breakthrough with my Richey's with Rev. Gideon Blackburn, the famous Presbyterian preacher who opened one of the first missions/schools to the Cherokee.

There is a list of names on/near French Broad/Clinch and Holston Rivers. That is another thread on the History forum I believe.
Joseph, John and James Woods were all listed. I am descended from Joseph and his son, John. Well Rev. Gideon Blackburn (1772-1838) was also listed.

Online bio for Gideon Blackburn says --

http://sdss4.physics.lsa.umich.edu:8080/~mckay/amckay/presbiob.htm

Gideon Blackburn, D.D. (1772-1838) He was born in Augusta County, Virginia, August 27th, 1772. In his boyhood his parents removed to Tennessee . . .

. . . In 1803 he undertook a mission among the Cherokees. In 1811 he removed again to West Tennessee . . .

end of quote from website

I have been emailing someone descended from the Blackburns. I have been told that Margaret Ritchie married Robert Blackburn in 1766, and that Gideon was their son. Same person also told me that Margaret Ritchie had a brother named Gideon Ritchey.

So this puts a Richey/Ritchie/Blackburn Family in Augusta County, Va in 1772 the same time my Joseph Woods was there (they moved there in 1770). Descendants of BOTH these families are on French Froad River in the 1790s.

On 1820 census of Gibson County, Indiana, are 3 Richey's. John, and Gideon, 18-26 years old and David 26-45 years old. My John Richey had a son also named Gideon Richey, so I have throught John and Gideon Richey were brothers in Indiana.

This person descended from the Richey's and Blackburns said they had Gideon Ritchie's in their family, too. There are just too many coincidences. These people are also related to a Richey that married a relative of Davey Crocket, altho I forget just how.

The Gideon Richey of Indiana married Nancy Woods May 1816, where my John Richey married Polly (Mary) Woods in 1817. From latter census rcords John Richey was born 1797. Of Gideon, I know from 1820 census he was born between 1794 and 1802. Were he born in 1794 he'd have been @ 22 years old when he married in 1816, so I suspect he was born closer to 1794, 5 or 6.

If Margaret Richey has a brother named Gideon Richey (and I was told that she did), then Gideon Blackburn was probably named after him. It is also possible that Margaret had other brothers and sisters who carried the name Gideon down.

One of Gideon Blackburn's offspring married a girl surnamesd "Glass". John Woods had a passport to work n Lookout Mountain in the Cherokee Nation betwen 1801 and 1803 signed by Chief Glass, who was chief of Lookout Mountain. So there are a lot of coincidnces.

Margaret's father was Alexander Ritchie, and there was an Alexander Ritchie (Margaret's brother or perhaps cousin?) who as a 12 year old boy was called an "Indian scout" on Clinch River in the 1770s. Margarat had another brother Samuel who is spoken of a lot in records of Russell Co, Va in the 1790s. He seems to have known Nevil Wayland Sr pretty well, as their names are mentioned together a few times.

In 1811 there is a Solomon Richey listed as FPC in Amherst County, Va and these ritchies were in neighboring Augusta Co in 1770 (at a time when Augusta and Rockbridge were still one county).

One person researcing the Woods family of Gibson Co., In told me Gideon Richey was already deceased in 1842 as it that was mentioned in the will of John Woods.

Still don't have it figured out, but we are getting there. If this were "John Brown" I wouldn't have a prayer. But Gideon is not a very common name, there were not very many of them, so I have more confidence that we are on the right track.

It is interesting these "appear" to be my Richey's, and they wre in Amherst/Rockbridge County where the Monocan were/are. They were in Russell/scoot Co., Va where the melungeons were/are, they were in Blount Co., Tn where the Blackurns/Woods/& some Cherokee were, and if they are my ichye's, they were in Gibson, Co., In, one county west of the county where the Blackfoot Church was (there is a Richey buried in the cemetary of that church from an early date)
.

I'd seen some of thse Richey's before but wasn't confident they were mine. Now I have more confidence that they might be.

vance