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collins
11-14-2005, 04:56 PM
Encyclopedia of American Indian Costume Page 33 gives good general descriptions of what our ancestors would have worn and what colors would have been most popular with them.
It states that the Southeastern Siouans ragalia would have been very similar to the Tuscarora. It further states that red and blue was the most popular cloth colors that the Southeastern Siouans prefered using in making breechclouts and shirts. Red pacoon was used in the hair and all over the body. Red was also used to fringe or border items. Black was used to circle one eye and white used to circle the other eye. They used turkey feathers and green mallard duck feathers and or heads to make mantles and matchcoats. So we can deduce that the main colors of the Southeastern Siouans would have been Red, Blue, Black, White, Green and of coarse various shades of Brown.

On tattooing it seems that the Southeastern Siouans didn't generally tattoo, but rather painted their designs on the skin.

As for jewlery they wore alot of copper items.

Tom
11-14-2005, 05:29 PM
Hey Collins great post, is there any more and can you post a link to the book if it's available for sale on the web?

collins
11-14-2005, 05:49 PM
http://www.wwnorton.com/catalog/fall95/031382.htm

http://www.wwnorton.com/orders/wwn/031382.htm

This book used to cost 75.00 but I guess the price has gone down. Now it is only 25.00 so I am going to try and get one myself.

Linda
11-14-2005, 06:02 PM
How many pages in the book pertain to us? Is there any way you could type in the text? Or scan the pages and send to me as readable image files and I'll type it?

collins
11-14-2005, 06:58 PM
Josephine Patereck states in her book entitled Encyclopedia of American Indian Costume page 33 (there are addittional pages detailing other Southeastern Siouan tribes, can't remember how many though), "Siouan-speaking tribes dominated the coastal areas south of the coastal Algonquians, and were also in the Piedmont regions of the Carolinas and Virginia. Major groups were the Catawba, Cheraw, Saponi, and Tutelo. The Tuscarora, an Iroquoian group, were very similar in their dress."

She further states, " Women wore two garments: these were often fashioned of cloth made from Spainish moss, the inner bark of the mulberry tree, or the softened bark of the basswood tree. One garment was a wraparound skirt, the other a shawl fastened on one shoulder, leaving the right arm uncovered. Deerskin, when available was worn by the wealthier people."

On footwear she states that, " The Siouan Indians of the Southeast usually went barefoot, but swamp moccasins were sometimes worn."

When discussing garment decoration she states, " their garments woven of mulberry bark and their girdles of opossum hair, the Siouan women added fringes dyed red with puccoon root."

She names three sources for this particular page of information as follows:
W.J. McGee " The Siouan Indians: A Preliminary Sketch." Bureau of American Ethnology Annual Reports 15:153-204

James Mooney "The Siouan Tribes of the East" Bureau of American Ethnology Bulletin 99

Frank G. Speck "Siouan Tribes of the Carolinas as Known from Catawba, Tutelo, and Documentary Sources" American Anthropologist 37(2):201-225

This page is in the section/chapter entitled Southeast. She lists 11 catagories under Siouan as follows: Men's Basic Dress, Women's Basic Dress, Footwear, Outer Wear, Hair Styles, Headgear, Accessories, Jewelry, Garment Decoration, Face and Body Embellishment, and Transitional Dress.

Linda
11-14-2005, 11:36 PM
Great! Thank you so much for this. Does she say anything more about the 11 categories? I'd like to get ahold of those original sources.

collins
11-19-2005, 08:21 PM
Page 33 Siouan Tribes of the East by James Mooney
On this page Mooney talks about animals that were used to designate usage. Tribes, clans, and people were given an animal designation based on the personality traits they showed most frequently such as the following:
Angry - this is the Serpant
Bloudy - this is the Wolf
Timid - this is the Deer
Faithfull - this is the Dog

What does Bloudy mean? I tried looking this word up and had no luck at all. Is it a mispelling of Bawdy or Bloody?


On colors here is a list of colors in English and then Saponi.

red - acutihiye
green - oto and otolako
black - asepi and lahoni
white - asa and wahkanaka
yellow - si and wasi
brown - acotate

collins
11-28-2005, 07:16 AM
Linda and Gang what are swamp moccasins?
Are those the knee high moccasins?

I was wondering about Tuscarora costume since some have mentioned that the Saponi and Tutelo dressed similar to them.

Also if some of the Pamunkey and Nansemond merged together with the Saponi and Tutelo is it possible that they may have adopted or adapted some of those costumes and culture?

I wanted to add an observation that in the description given about possum hair "girdles" couldn' t that mean that they made those to be worn like a decorative waste band much like what is shown in the DeBry and White engravings?
In some Native costume I have seen wide clothe or leather belt-type sashes. Sometimes these are beaded or woven with designs. Could it be that these two objects were the same thing just a different and unique textile form?
Thanks

Tom
12-06-2005, 06:12 PM
Thro' time clothing styles have dratically changed what we see now as traditional is what people have kept from the late 1800 and possibly a bit earlier, but in the se, the styles are much different and often closely resemble euro American clothing made with cloth not hide.
In order to devlope an eastern souian style we should look at these available resources and combine late 1700s clothing styles or combine it with any any pre contact / archaeo. info. that we have, if your really interested this could be a great deal of fun and not that hard to do.
I'd like to see mambers from amny communities come together and try to define each communitites style and retain those throu. the populus. Gotta run....

stacey.23
12-07-2005, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by collins
Linda and Gang what are swamp moccasins?
Are those the knee high moccasins?

Hi collins,

The glossary gives the definition for Swamp Moccasins as "a calf-high moccasin or boot of buckskin worn in the Southeast."

On page 6, under the Southeast General Footwear section, it states: Both sexes normally went barefoot, but when they went into the swamps or forests they wore the ankle-high "swamp moccasin," which was a one-piece affair of skin or hide laced up the back and at the toes with thongs. The back laces were left long so they could be tied about the ankles for security. Beverley, an early traveler, said that at times and extra piece was sewn on the bottom to make a heavier sole.

Stacey

stacey.23
12-07-2005, 01:15 PM
Just to expand a little more on collins' nice find...

Paterek, Josephine. Enclyclopedia of American Indian Costume. W. W. Norton & Company, New York. 1994. 516pgs.

This book is available through Amazon at:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393313824/qid=1133977184/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-3747892-8937630?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

New ones are listed at $16.47 and used ones are available from $15.00.

The book is divided into ten Chapters: Southeast, Northeast, Plains, Southwest, Great Basin, Plateau, California, Northwest Coast, Subartic, and Artic. Plus an Appendix of "Clothing Arts of the American Indians (furs, tanning, use of tanned hides, construction and sewing of skin garments, decoration of tanned hides, use of other animal parts, etc.) and a second Appendix with Glossary Definitions.

The section on the Southeast is on pages 5 to 38. The first three and a half pages are a general description of the Southeast and then that chapter is divided by tribes. The following tribes and page numbers are listed for the Southeast: Alabama, p. 8; Apalachee; Atakapa; Biloxi; Caddo, p.9; Calusa, p. 10; Catawba, p. 33; Cheraw, p. 33; Cherokee, p. 11; Chickahominy; Chickasaw, p. 15; Chitimacha; Choctaw, p. 16; Creek, p. 18; Cusabo; Guale; Houma; Mattaponi; Mobile; Monacan; Muskogee; Natchez, p. 20; Nottoway; Pamunkey; Poencioc(?-hard to read); Potomac; Powhatan, p. 22; Rappahannock; Saponi, p. 33; Secotan, p. 26; Seminole, p. 28; Siouan, p. 33; Taensa; Tekesta; Timucua, p. 34; Tunica; Tuscarora, p. 34; Tuskogee-Creek; Tutelo, p. 33; and Yuchi, p. 35.

pages 33 - 34


SIOUAN
Siouan-speaking tribes dominated the coastal areas south of the coastal Algonquians, and were also in the Piedmont regions of the Carolinas and Virginia. Major groups were the Catawba, Cheraw, Saponi, and Tutelo. The Tuscarora, an Iroquoian group, were very similar in their dress.

Men's Basic Dress
Men wore the breechclout, said to be of a very soft deerskin, which they did not tan but rubbed hard between the hands and with fingernails that were grown long for that purpose. Leggings may have been worn for travel.

Women's Basic Dress
Women wore two garments: These were often fashioned of cloth made from Spanish moss, the inner bark of the mulberry tree, or the softened bark of the basswood tree. One garment was a wraparound skirt, the other a shawl fastened on one shoulder, leaving the right arm uncovered. Deerskin, when available, was worn by the wealthier people.

Footwear
The Siouan Indians of the Southeast usually went barefoot, but swamp moccasins were sometimes worn.

Outer Wear
Matchcoats, or mantles, were made of fur or feathers, and, when available, deerskin. The feather cloaks were made of turkey feathers or the green part of mallard heads, sewn together with deer sinew or strands of silk grass. Lawson mentions the use of panther skins for robes.

Hair Styles
The men rolled the hair up on each ear, or sometimes made a roll on the top of the head or at the temples. Another style was to cut the hair on one side of the head within an inch or two of the roots, leaving it standing upright. Women let their hair grow long and coiled it into a long roll at the back, which they tied with thongs or strings of beads. Both sexes used bear grease and red dye to enhance the hair; the red came from puccoon roots, brought from the mountains.

Headgear
The Southeastern Siouans generally did not wear headgear.

Accessories
Girdles were woven of opossum hair in a finger-weaving technique.

Jewelry
Copper ornaments were extremely popular. The Tuscarora made frequent western trips to obtain the metal; it was made into hair ornaments and earrings, and into beads that were strung into loops for adorning the wrists and upper arms.

Garment Decoration
To their garments woven of mulberry bark and their girdles of opossum hair, the Siouan women added fringes dyed red with puccoon root.

Face and Body Embellishments
Tattooing seems to have been ignored by the Siouans in favor of painting on the face, breasts, biceps, and thighs. Commonly they would paint the face red, making a circle of black around one eye and a circle of what around the other. These colors came from lampblack, white clay, and cinnabar; the cinnabar was obtained from Chewaw territory. The Catawba, at one time the most powerful tribe in the Carolinas, were said to have flattened the heads of their infants, but this does not seem to have been common among the Siouans.

Transitional Dress
The Siouans were quick to adopt the trade cloth brought by the English, especially blue and red strouding, which was used to make a fine breechcloths and skirts. Woolen mantles and shawls were also adopted. The men began to wear trousers, shirts, and coats, the women to wear the long, full, cotton dresses, and tribal distinctions were quickly lost.

Key Sources
McGee, W.J. "The Siouan Indians: A Preliminary Sketch." Bureau of American Ethnology Annual Reports 15:153-204

Mooney, James. "The Siouan Tribes of the East" Bureau of American Ethnology Bulletin 99

Speck, Frank G. "Siouan Tribes of the Carolinas as Known from Catawba, Tutelo, and Documentary Sources" American Anthropologist 37(2):201-225

I know Mooney's book is online, but I will have to check on the other two and see what descriptions they give.

Stacey

Linda
12-08-2005, 11:27 PM
I'm getting a clearer and clearer picture all the time. Thanks all.

I wonder what cloth woven of mulberry bark is like? Do you have any idea, Tom?

stacey.23
12-09-2005, 01:08 AM
From what I have found, there are two ways to make cloth from mulberry bark either woven or pounded.

Woven
Excerpt taken from http://www.yvwiiusdinvnohii.net/Cherokee/WendellCochran/CCNotes-ClothingAdornment.htm ...

...The earliest description of southeastern Indian clothing comes from the DeSoto narratives (Ranjel in Bourne, Vol. II. pp. 87-88). Although they refer to the Muskhogean tribes, it is very likely that most of the southern woodland Indians wore similar garments. Women wore two kinds of garments, one from the waist down like a short skirt, the other over the upper part draped over the left shoulder leaving the right arm uncovered. They wore woven materials made from thread coming from the inner bark of the mulberry tree.

The Payne Manuscripts describes the women's skirts among the ancient Cherokees as resembling those described earlier by the Spaniards. The materials for the skirts in this case were woven from strips of inner bark from the roots of the mulberry tree. The strips varied from 1/8 to 1/2 inch wide and were woven like a basket weave, probably a simple over and under technique. The color was either yellow or red, or possibly a combination of the two colors.

The skirts were described as very pliable, so the strips must have been thin and soft. Wild hemp was also used in weaving these skirts, which were often trimmed with fringe of feathers. The women also wore short gowns (probably capes. Ed.) made from turkey feathers....

Pounded
Excerpt aken from http://www.pfaf.org/leaflets/fibplant.php ...

The Paper Mulberry (Broussonetya papyrifera) is a small deciduous tree whose range extends from China to the tropical South Sea Islands and yet it is hardy in Britain if given a warm position and a fairly rich soil. When grown for its fibre it is usually coppiced on an annual basis (though perhaps less often if grown in our cooler climes). To make cloth from this plant the bark is usually cut into strips about 4 x 12 inches and laid out flat on a smooth wooden surface. It is then beaten with wooden mallets, the more it is beaten the thinner and finer it becomes. Size can be increased by overlapping other strips of bark and beating them together. Depending upon the degree of beating the resulting cloth can range from a thick material suitable for sacking to the very finest gossamer thin clothing. This plant also produces a delicious fruit but only a very small proportion of the structure is actually edible which makes it too fiddly to be very worthwhile.

Here is a picture of the pounded version...
http://www.molli.org.uk/bark/object_detail.asp?ID=127/2001/9

Some websites also called the pounded version "tapa".

Stacey

Linda
12-09-2005, 07:53 AM
Wow. These were some nice 'threads," if you'll pardon the expression. This is so do-able.

Linda
12-09-2005, 08:56 AM
Tom, or anybody, what modern, relatively readily available material would be most like this fabric, assuming the skirts and tops were made from the finest thread the mulberry bark could make?

Tom
12-09-2005, 03:54 PM
Well Linda Iam not sure what it is that you are asking, do you want to make mulberry fibre cloth or immatate it?
I have seen some really nice threads made from tree bark that was soaked in order to get rid of the pulp, it turned out to be a golden color and very fine , scary fine, with rough hands the material stuck to and abrasion a splintered even finer!
If you'd like to copy this material in modern terms any immataion suede would do.
The mulberry bark needs to be reconsidered since it's still very do-able, I have some what of a background in making objects from "gathered" materials, so I don't see why we couldn't do this.
The Dooker paper has some good info. and may have more re. this Iam sure that some forms of cotton etc must have been used aswell, certqainly I have made "string " from nettles, barks, small plants and many other materials fairly simple but I have yet to weave with it, aswell I have made coardage from buffalo hair, etc.
I really believe that the use of tanned deer skins came about as an object of wealthy, eventually replacing tree bark clothing, it's easier to collect the bark than to get the deer hide!
Ask me again and be very specific., we can do most anything!

Linda
12-09-2005, 09:18 PM
I'm sure it's possible to weave, and I'd love to be able to experiement with it, but it's not a practical task if we're setting out to outfit half a dozen busy women with jobs and families.

Are you sure imitation suede would look like it? I was thinking it would be something like a rough linen type of fabric.

Felicia
12-10-2005, 01:54 AM
Check out links from Bark - Second Skin pages below:

Internet Links
Barkcloth making process:

http://www.siapo.com/barkcloth.html

Barkcloth design & printing techniques:

http://www.siapo.com/rubbingmethod.html

http://www.siapo.com/freehandmethod.html

Barkcloth dyes:

http://www.siapo.com/dyes.html

collins
12-10-2005, 07:39 AM
So they just beat the bark together, what keeps it from falling apart?
How strong is the cloth that is made in this fashion and also would it tear easily during activity?
I have heard that hemp can be made into cloth is the same methods used?
Back in the 80's I had a windbreaker made out of a paperlike material. Was that the same type of material?

Sorry for so many questions, I am very fascinated by this process and use.

On another type of textile I have seen a News story back several years ago where a woman could take human hair and or pet hair and finger weave it into a cloth. I wonder if this same method could be used for possum hair? Some how she would twist the hairs together making a thread and then go from there much like spinninng wool or cotton.

spilleddi
12-10-2005, 08:46 PM
I used to make kapa when I was a kid (Hawaiian bark cloth made from mulberry bark). My dance troupe used it for traditional outfits. It is very labor intensive, and each piece of cloth needs at least two or more layers for strength. Years later we decided it was a heck of a lot easier to order it in bulk from Tonga, were the practice is still going strong.

The Tongan stuff that I have is smooth to the touch, but since the grains go every which way, it actually feels rough when you wear it, and it is stiffer than cloth. A better name for the stuff would be bark paper, it does behave more like homemade paper than cloth. Also, the layers tend to come apart over time, it is more fragile than cloth, and use in the rain greatly lessons its lifespan. It tends to get ragged after a while, but that adds to the authenticity. We always used it by cutting up a large sheet into strips for skirts, or breechcloths for the guys, also made armbands and ties out of it.

When we wanted a substitute for kapa, we would buy light brown, tan, or light orange cotton, then we would stamp it with traditional stamp designs.

If someone wanted to make a skirt out of it, you would probably want to put a bias on the edge to prevent fraying, and then line the inside with cotton to prevent fraying from rubbing against you, and also for comfort.

I can see why deer skin would be more valuable than bark cloth, brain tan hide is smoother, stronger, and lasts longer, and I'm willing to bet its quicker to tan a hide than it is to make an equal amount of good bark cloth, (I've done both). I would try making kapa again, but those trees don’t grow were I live.

Hope this helps

Shad

Linda
12-10-2005, 10:00 PM
What I've thought was being described was a process of breaking down the fibers, then spinning them into a thread which was then woven, as all fabrics are. Am I mistaken?

I know that's how dogbane fibers are used.

spilleddi
12-11-2005, 04:23 PM
OK, I see were it says “garments woven of mulberry bark”. I have not seen mulberry bark woven, but the inner bark seems to have a similar fineness to inner cedar bark. Northwest coast tribes still weave with cedar bark. Some of the cloth is made from very fine cedar bark thread, and they would sometimes mix other materials with it, such as other wild fibers and even goat and dog hair. I have seen some examples of pre-contact weaving that look just like Scottish tartans.

collins
03-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Hair Styles
The men rolled the hair up on each ear, or sometimes made a roll on the top of the head or at the temples. Another style was to cut the hair on one side of the head within an inch or two of the roots, leaving it standing upright. Women let their hair grow long and coiled it into a long roll at the back, which they tied with thongs or strings of beads. Both sexes used bear grease and red dye to enhance the hair; the red came from puccoon roots, brought from the mountains.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Just wondering about these descriptions on hair styles.
When this description says the men rolled their hair on top of their head is that like a bun?
Also when it says that they made a roll at the temples is that like princes Leigha rolls? or did they actually wined the hair around their ears?

On the ladies is the coiled long roll at the back of the head looking something like what Olive Oil wore in the Popeye cartoons?

Sorry to be funny about it, but it helps me to get a better idea of what our ancestors looked like.

Tom
11-22-2006, 01:38 PM
refreshing

MargoLW
03-02-2011, 03:37 PM
Thank you soooo much for this post -- even though now it is old. Not sure how I missed it. Anyway, I was particularly struck by the discussion of footwear, because my great grandmother who was Cheraw from South Carolina/Georgia would NEVER wear shoes, always barefoot except going outside in winter in NY. Again thanks for all this info to you and the others who have posted.!!

Nannanae
03-02-2011, 09:36 PM
well you know we ladies now days dont' want to go to any powwow to traditional really!

so everyone needs to agree.. but I suspect bare arms/even one though closer to our ancient traditions might be an insult at some powwows.
so we have to find out that kind of stuff too.
to our local powwow .. I made a regalia to honor one of my many times grandpa who was mostly known as cherokee. I just made a cloth dress/leather colored and a smooth shiny leather shawl, punched and feathered to look like male turtle shell sheild is decorated like one too..... but it is my leather shawl poncho style like of .and brown leather tall boots and turtle purse and earrings etc.
and John at saponi made me a gorgeous bone knife I wore in my shell belt. lots of copper too.

of course a turtle was the theme 'turtle island' etc . I did all that and have only have worn it twice.. because it is so not like everyone elses stuff..
but I did it for my own reasons.. family reasons not for anyone elses benefit in the first place.
but for clues for my kids and grandkids , if they forget the stories maybe they will think about those clothes and the stuff I made for me and them as clues .. you know.
the problem with the mixed cloth and leather is which group do you go in with ... cloth or traditional or skin ?
so mixed stuff , it created a lot of questions.


so how much flesh is legal or not an insult?
Because trust us you dont' want some of us ladies run around in real tradtional clothing.

so now what do you do and not standout like a wannabee <LOL> but all I know for sure is this big momma ain't wearing any cherokee tear dress either..look like a dang floral tent..rotf
I knew a lot of old stuff and stories and such ..but neither grandma knew about it , so I didint' and dont know squat about 'powwows'. still don't .
but I love the Mix clothing I made, and I had read where Mo saponi indians at the time of the TOT were wearing a mix of cloth and leather and skins I did what I did .. loved it because it is personal to me though I bought the boots because I wanted tall boots . but it didn't work with the program or divisions it seemed, so I didn't know what to do about that little problem.