And we wonder why we can't find any records on our families

[Linda]

Just imagine how much stuff has been thrown into dumpsters over the years that nobody squawked about.


WASHINGTON - Someone in the Department of Interior may have intentionally discarded records pertinent to Indian Trust accountability, according to a letter from the Office of General Counsel. The National Archives and Records Administration filed a report to Interior, which eventually was filed with the U.S. District Court of Washington, D.C., indicating permanent federal records were found in a dumpster. The trashed files were allegedly genealogical records, which are used to determine ownership of land and assets. Interior is forbidden by court order to shred or discard any records that may be involved in trust assets for American Indians.

NARA is investigating one or more incidents to determine if the BIA was intentionally destroying records. According to a letter to Interior from Jason Baron, director of litigation for the Office of General Counsel, there were ''one or more incidents at the National Archives involving what may be [an] intentional act aimed at unlawfully removing or disposing of permanent records from the Interior Department.''

The dumpster was located at the main office of the National Archives. Some of the BIA records that were part of the permanent holdings of the National Archives dated back to the 1950s. Additional records were discovered in a wastebasket in the stack areas of the main archives, according to Baron. It is not known if the records found
in the trash container and the ones in the wastebasket are related.

The Office of Inspector General is conducting an investigation, Baron wrote in the letter. Plaintiffs in the Cobell v. Norton case wasted no time in responding to the allegations and referred to the incidents as ''the same repugnant, desperate actions we've come to expect from Interior Secretary Gale Norton and her unethical managers.

''Despite numerous court orders to preserve records related to the individual Indian Trust, the Secretary and the Interior Department continue to destroy irreplaceable Trust documents three blocks from the federal courthouse where they were held in contempt for destroying Trust records,'' said Dennis Gingold, lead attorney for
the plaintiffs.

''When a sitting cabinet-level official feels that they can destroy protected trust records 60 yards from where the Constitution is displayed, we have a government that is out of control,'' Gingold said in a prepared statement.
The letter regarding the destroyed records was dated Sept. 13; the records were found on Sept. 1. Bill MacAllister, spokesman for the Cobell plaintiffs, said the plaintiffs were puzzled why the court was not notified in a more prompt manner. The lack of records preservation by Interior was the basis for some of the contempt charges leveled against Norton and her staff.

''We would never have known about the records if someone hadn't walked by that dumpster. It would suggest somebody is going through there and pulling things out,'' MacAllister said. ''It shows the government is not taking care of the records the way it should to preserve Indian records.''

He added that government records from other agencies were also found in the same dumpster.

''We hope that both the Inspector General at the National Archives and the people from the Department of Justice can get into this and see what went on,'' MacAllister said.

The missing records will most likely be discussed with Judge Royce Lamberth at a future time. There are currently no hearings scheduled. Gingold implied that until that discussion takes place, Norton would continue to undermine the 10-year-old lawsuit by destroying trust documents until she is arrested and jailed.

Recently DOJ filed a motion for Lamberth's dismissal based on unconventional rulings from the bench. A panel of appellate judges deferred the dismissal motion to a different panel of judges, to be heard at a later date.

An injunction issued by Lamberth that ordered Interior to begin immediate work on an accounting plan was heard at the appellate level on Sept. 15. The DOJ and the plaintiffs both have problems with the order and wanted more clarification from Lamberth. But the appeals court does not send orders back for clarification: they either uphold the order or give instructions.

The government argues that it will take nearly $14 billion to create an accounting of the historical records; the plaintiffs argue that because of lost and destroyed records, it is impossible to produce an accurate historical accounting. The government continues the argument of cutting back on the number of American Indians involved in the accounting procedure. As it stands now, the accounting will have to goback to 1887. Plaintiffs argue that it is because of the expense, not the workload, that the government wants the change. Baron's letter was attached to the August activity report filed with the District Court that details work on active and inactive records and their disposition.

The report stated that through August 2005, more than 120,000 boxes had been reviewed and processed. Also, 2,740 boxes of inactive records from a variety of locations were moved to NARA for storage.

The Office of Trust Review is holding 31 boxes, as ordered by the federal court. The contents will be verified when the hold is lifted, the report stated.

[collins]

Maybe instead of sending people to the federal archive in D.C. for research folks should start going to the D.C. dumpsters first.
It is amazing that our government tells us to document our Indian heritage and then turns around and puts the documentation in the trash.
With all the indictments flying around out there I'll be surprised if they don't end up in a dumpster too.

[Linda]

Maybe instead of sending people to the federal archive in D.C. for research folks should start going to the D.C. dumpsters first.

Good one!! LOL

[Spirit]

You have to be kidding me! I am so irritated by this it's hard enough trying to put the pieces together yourself. But when you have someone deliberately destroying them it's just not right!

[1_optimistic]

It seems to me that the government (White Americans) is trying to destroy our ancestry. Are they trying to "PURIFY" the races or something!!!!

[Linda]

'Is" and "was" are the words. When you look at the evolution of the legal code you can clearly see the deliberate and effective effort made to create a society with only two races, those who could be held as slaves, and those who couldn't. We're still living today by those taboos and mores and many more ways than we are aware of.

Emma sent me some great material on the evolution of the laws around race.

They've been obliterating such records long before dumpsters were ever invented. How many of us have families we know were Indian who were listed on the census as white or black? All of us? They might have lived their whole lives never being accepted socially as white or black, but that's what they were on paper.

[1_optimistic]

That makes me sick to my stomach!!!

Erica

[Tom]

In Canada we try to legislate culture in the USA they try to legislate race, when it's our turn I'd like to bury all the "slates".

[Black Dutch]

It is part of the assimilation system where they take away your pride because you don't know who or where you came from. Just like the way history books have written (and re-written) history as the way "they" want it told.
Don't forget, Nazi Germany based their concentration camps on the American reservation sytem. They also copied the Eugenics Program on models used in Virginia and several other states. Thanks to people like Plecker.

Proud to be Native American.

Let the truth be known!

[lynne pepper]

[QUOTE=barryc]This is one major problem I have with the recognition game. You lose the war and go to the enemy to have him legitimize who you are--you go to the people who intentionally destroyed the records.

Me:
Good point, Barry. I ask this rhetorical question....when will we stop doing this? I like this answer, NOW.

Lynne

[Mousini78]

Maybe when the BIA is no more...and may be everyone will be on a more equal playing field.

[lynne pepper]

Maybe when the BIA is no more...and may be everyone will be on a more equal playing field.


I've never had to deal with the BIA, but I bet its a frickin' nightmare.
I've had to deal with the INS, or as its now called, the BCIS...and I have more grey hair and tears lost just in simple phone conversations. The BIA has got to be even worse.....maybe...the BCIS is pretty bad!

Sorry that I missed you and your Mr., as well as Jade, at the Ochaneeche pow wow...I've had to get on the overtime list, and don't have days off anymore. Sad to say, I can't make it to the ES get together either. Maybe next year!

Fond regards,
Lynne

[Mousini78]

Sorry that I missed you and your Mr., as well as Jade, at the Ochaneeche pow wow...I've had to get on the overtime list, and don't have days off anymore. Sad to say, I can't make it to the ES get together either. Maybe next year!

Fond regards,
Lynne
We missed you as well. It was a good time. We hope to attend East Bend next. That all depends on my mom's corn crop. She announced yesterday that it would be two weeks. With all this rain, though, it may be sooner or the corn may just fall over in the row.

[Greywolf]

Barry, that’s very interesting! “Heil President” “Sieg Heil”? Sounds okay with me, if the shoe fits wear it and nobody has bigger feet than the U.S.! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieg_Heil

Hitler would be proud. John

[sakkwa]

Bezon. I am Sakkwa, A Shawnee from MD/VA. I`m new here. Can`t help but respond to BarryC. The recognition game won`t stop until our own people stop playing it. Thanks

[White Hawk]

BIA = Bury Indian Ancestry

[barryc]

There is a cure for the recognition game that the government and now some government allied tribes are playing. The following is a post from another forum:


Perhaps the situation is very similar indeed. There are 4 million Indians in the United States, which is (I believe) PATHETIC. In no other country of the Americas the Indians were so wiped out of existence like in the United States.

In Hispanic America the average Indian blood is 25%, in the Hispanic Caribbean is around 15%. In Brazil is over 20%. Even in Canada there are more than a million Native Americans making the 5% of the population at least. Quebecoise, for instance, are proud of their Indian great-gran mothers.

What happened in the US?

I very much believe than MANY Indians were absorved by the white population. Some tests have shown a 6% of Native American admixture in White Americans. The number for the admixture in the Black population is around the same as well. So, a 6% of the genetic pool of non-Hispanic US people would represent about 14 million individuals if they were an isolated population !!!

Indians mixed with whites and never told their descendents about their past. That is "passing", another of those curious US racial behavoirs.

However, the cure is comming. Mexicans migrants that go to the States are about 60% Native Americans and they dominate Hispanic immigration to the US. Hispanics in the States are more that 40 millions already and the number is growing daily. Because they are growing so fast Native American blood is starting to flow in mass to the United States at last.

If you follow just a simple calculation, you will find out that the sum of Native Americans, the admixture in Whites and Blacks and the contribution of Hispanic populations add to the equivalent of a population of 4+14+24=44 million peoples, or over the 15% of the population.

Not too bad for an extinct race. Isn't it?

(And that is without counting some East Asian groups that are closely related to Native Americans)

That's good news, I guess. The Americas are Indian lands after all. "

Regards, Omar Vega
http://backintyme.com/ODR/about855.htm

I don't necessarily agree with this guys figures but his point is on target and can be taken futher. 90% of Mexican's are Indians and the illegal border will not stop 100,000,000 of our Native American brothers and sisters from re-browning the US. And they have retained much of their Indian culture. What will government recognition mean when there are 100 million non-recognized Indians in the US and we begin organizing in powerful ways.

The key is not recognition but organizing tribally (which means economically, politically and socially) and Mexicans are already 60% there. They are the sleeping Native American giant!

Barry

[sammarroq]

Thanks Barry for sharing that information. My husband's father was from Mexico, the family has Mayan roots. My skin tone is medium as is my husbands (his mother was German), but I have one daughter who is darker than us both and is black-eyed. It is something to think about.

Shirley

[barryc]

When I grew up in Southside VA there were two races - Black and White. Brown people were few and far between. We were always the minority. I went to the "colored" school until the third grade and I was a minority among a minority. I was the lightest kid in my class. And from the 4 to 7th I went to the white school and was a minority there. I was the darkest kid in my class. Then the schools integrated and I was still a minority. Almost everywhere we went in the south we were a minority. The south has been like this for 300 to 400 years with the exception of small isolate communities such as Greentown and Holister. The shame of this all is that the Southeast like the rest of the US has always been brown.

I was in Wilson NC last night at Wal-Mart and approximately 1/3 of the people there were brown—Mexican—INDIAN. WOW! It really felt good. It felt good to be in a public place in the south surrounded by Indians and be not be a minority. I walked around the store smiling and speaking to them all.

Many of the Indians in Wilson don't speak Spanish or English. They still speak their Native Indian languages. Most still live in close nit extended family units – looks like tribes to me. The vast majority of Indians yesterday were with their families because they are still tribally-family oriented. Many have their tribal name printed across the front top of their windshield—Gonzanles, Garcia, Arizpe. Right down the road from where I live in Clarksville lives Jeronimo. He has it proudly displayed on his license plate. Who would have ever though that Jeronimo, my hero, would be living in Occoneechee VA in 2006. Most are still eating Indian foods, which by the way is healthy. Yes the vast majority of American Indians today in the US don’t admit publicly they are Indian and most Euro-Americans don’t see them as Indian. As the ancient prophecies foretold before, the Europeans came, the re-Indianing of America is occurring directly before our eyes. The beauty of Euro-Americans not seeing Mexicans as Indians is that the re-Indianing of American is being done in stealth mode. The Whites shamed us into not acknowledging and forgetting who we were and in the process they also forgot. Now they don’t see that Indians are re-taking America. I walked through Wal-mart with a big smile on my face knowing that THE INDIANS ARE BACK!!!! They’re Home.

When Thomas Jefferson publicly advocated for the mixing of the Indians and Whites to form one race, I don’t think he had in mind that race being brown. Well sorry Thomas you lost!! When 90% of the country is Brown within the next 100 years, culturally, economically, and racially what will BIA recognition mean? Maybe then we will see cards for white people.

[sammarroq]

I was fortunate to spend my childhood in the West (Montana), and have lived in the Midwest for the past 25 years. Not that prejudices are not alive in the North, it is just not as common. I am not personally familar with life in the South, but have done some reading. I am taking African-American History as a summer class through North Carolina A&T University. Family on my father's side lived in the Cumberland Penninsula (Virginia) and it was common for them to travel in and out of the surrounding states in search of food and to avoid persecution; they too lived in clans/tribes. It looks like Walter Plecker was one of the persecutors; some of our family surnames were on his watch list. Below is one of his letters:

The following is a transcribed copy of a 1943 official bulletin from Dr. Plecker to Virginia county officials which includes a watchlist of surnames.



Commonwealth of Virginia
Department of Health
Bureau of Vital Statistics Richmond


January 1943
Local Registrar, Physicians Health Officers, Nurses, School Superintendents and Clerks of the Courts

Dear Co-workers:

Our December 1942 letter to local registrars, also mailed to the clerks, set forth the determined effort to escape from the negro race of groups of "free issues;" or descendants of the "free mulattoes" of early days, so listed prior to 1865 in the United State census and various types of State records, as distinguished from slave negroes.

Now that these people are playing up the advantage gained by being permitted to give "Indian" as the race of the child's parents on birth certificates, we see the great mistake made in not stopping earlier the organized propagation of the racial falsehood. They have been using the advantage thus gained as an aid to intermarriage into the white race and to attend white schools, and now for some time, they have been refusing to register with war draft boards as negroes from Caroline County were sentenced to prison on January 12 in the United States Court at Richmond for refusing to obey the draft law unless permitted to classify themselves as "Indians."

Some of these mongrels, finding that they have been able to sneak in their birth certificates unchallenged as Indians are now making a rush to registrar as white. Upon investigation we find that a few local registrars have been permitting such certificates to pass through their hands unquestioned and without warning our office of the fraud. Those attempting this fraud should be warned that they are liable to a penalty of one year in the penitentiary (Section 5099 of the Code). Several clerks have likewise been actually granting them license to marry whites, or at least to marry amongst themselves as Indian or white. The danger of this error always confronts the clerk who does not inquire carefully as to the residence of the woman when he does not have positive information. The law is explicit that the license be issued by the clerk of the county or city in which the woman resides.

To aid all of you in determing just which are the mixed families, we have made a list of their surnames by counties and cities, as complete as possible at this time. This list should be preserved by all, even by those counties and cities not included, as these people are moving around over the State and changing race at the new place. A family has just been investigated which was always recorded as negro around Glade Springs, Washington County, but which changed to white and married as such in Roanoke County. This is going on constantly and can be prevented only by care on the part of local registrars, clerks, doctors, health workers, and school authorities.

Please report all know or suspicious cased to the Bureau of Vital Statistics, giving names, ages, parents, and as much other information as possible. All certificates of these people showing "Indian" or "White" are now being rejected and returned to the physician or midwife, but local registrars hereafter must not permit them to pass their hands uncorrected or unchallenged and without a note of warning to us. One hundred and fifty thousand other mulattoes in Virginia are watching eagerly the attempt of their pseudo-Indian brethren, ready to follow in a rush when the fist have made a break in the dike.

Very truly yours,

(signature)

W. A. Plecker, M.D. State Registrar of Vital Statistics

(attached to the above letter is the list of surnames by county as follows)

Albemarle:
Moon, Powel, Pumphrey

Amherst:
(Migrants to Allegheney and Campbell) Adcock (Adcox), Beverly (this family is now trying to evade the situation by adopting the name of Burch or Birch, which was the name of the white mother of the present adult generation), Branham, Duff, Floyd, Hamilton, Hartless, Hicks, Johns, Lawless, Nukles (Knuckles), Painter, Ramsey, Redcross, Roberts, Southwards (Suthards, Southerds, Southers). Sorrells, Terry, Tyree, Willis, Clark, Wood

Bedford:
McVey, Maxey, Branham, Burley (see Amherst)

Rockbridge:
(migrants to Augusta), Cash, Clark, Coleman, Duff, Floyd, Hartless, Hicks, Mason, Mayse(Mays), Painters, Pults, Ramsey, Southerds (see Amherst), Sorrell, Terry, Tyree, Wood, Johns

Charles City:
Collins, Dennis, Bradby, Howell, Langston, Stewart, Wynn, Custalow(Custaloo), Dungoe, Holmes, Miles, Page, Allmond, Adams, Hawkes, Spurlock, Doggett

King William:
Collins, Dennis, Bradby, Howell, Lanston, Stewart, Wynn, Custalow(Custaloo), Dungoe, Bolnus, Miles, Page, Allmond, Adams, Hawkes, Spurlock, Doggett

New Kent:
Collins, Bradby, Stewart, Wynn Adkins, Langston

Henrico and Richond City:
(see Charles City, New Kent, and King William)

Caroline:
Byrd, Fortune, Nelson (see Essex)

Essen and King and Queen:
Nelson, Fortune, Byrd, Cooper, Tate, Hammond, Brooks, Boughton, Prince, Mitchell, Robinson

Elizabeth City and Newport News:
Stewart (descendants of Charles City families)

Halifax:
Epps (Eppes), Stewart (Stuart), Coleman, Johnson, Martin, Talley, Sheppard (Shepard), Young

Norfolk County and Portsmouth:
Sawyer, Bass, Weaver, Locklear (Locklair), King, Bright, Porter

Westmoreland:
Sorrells, Worlds (Worrell), Atwells, Butridge, Okiff

Greene:
Shifflett, Shiflet

Prince William:
Tyson, Segar (see Fauquier)

Fauquier:
Hoffman (Huffman), Riley, Colvin, Phillips, (see Prince William)

Lancaster:
Dorsey (Dawson)

Washington:
Beverly, Barlow, Thomas, Hughes, Lethcoe, Worley

Roanoke County:
Beverly (see Washington)

Lee and Smyth:
Collins, Gibson (Gipson), Moore, Boins, Ramsey, Delph, Bunch, Freeman, Mise, Bolden (Bolin), Mullins, Hawkins - Chiefly Tennessee "Melungeons"

Scott:
Dingus (see Lee)

Russell:
Keith, Castell, Stillwell, Meade, Proffitt (see Lee and Tazewell)

Tazewell:
Hammed, Duncan, (see Russell)

Wise:
(see Lee, Scott, Smyth, and Russell Counties)

End of document

[Felicia]

This is true and also, this is why my family tried to stay as low key'd as possible in order to avoid trouble from the law or "others"!! This is why my family's names are not on a list such as this.

[Bill Childs]

Can anyone be 'certain' as to who torched the courthouse full of "Those Records" when the perfect opportunity during a war arose?? :)
I would have thought of it.
Lot's of courthouses were burned but many of those were not in a 'line of march' .
Think about it.

[Cathy Rowland]

Can anyone tell me from what county the Ray's might have been from, also the Clevinger(Cleavenger's) ? This paart of my family, as is the Maynard's Lee's Scott's, and Gibson's. Thanks Cathy Rowland

[dottiehp]

Hello ... I am new to the forum. Hope someone out there can help.
My grandfather said he was Creek/Blackfoot from Oconee? I am searching for his 'roots'. All I know is: His name was Sylvester Davis ... born in Ms. 1855. Mother and father unknown but also born in Ms. (I got the info from his death record.) He married Eleanor Jackson ... my grandmother ... born 1870 in Greenwood, MS. Her mother was Charlotte Jackson, born 1826 in TN. on the Andrew Jackson plantation. Her mother was Hannah Jackson, housekeeper to Pres. Jackson ... mentioned in historical writing about him. I give all this information in hopes that anyone who might have information on Sylvester Davis would also know some of the other tidbits, thereby confirming the person is one in the same. Thanks.

[malisa]

In Canada we try to legislate culture in the USA they try to legislate race, when it's our turn I'd like to bury all the "slates". when they first came here, they were jealous because indian were doing better. they wanted to be better yet. but never stopped to think of what was happening.now it to late to change the ways for the better again.:(

[CoheeLady]

Can anyone be 'certain' as to who torched the courthouse full of "Those Records" when the perfect opportunity during a war arose?? :)
I would have thought of it.
Lot's of courthouses were burned but many of those were not in a 'line of march' .
Think about it.
Many courthouses were burned but some records exist that were normally kept in those courthouses.

[kpatrice]

This is true and also, this is why my family tried to stay as low key'd as possible in order to avoid trouble from the law or "others"!! This is why my family's names are not on a list such as this.

Felicia you are so correct about families staying low key. My family left the area of South Hill, Va and tried to re-identify themselves in an attempt to stay under the radar by moving to the Hampton Roads area. Barry is also correct in his statement about southeastern, Va. You are either Black or White. That's it. I can relate to Barry's sense of standing out there. I was not black enough for the blacks but too dark for the whites. I was harassed at school by both groups due to the appearance of my family, especially my mom. We were always accused of being middle eastern foreigners. It took my mom years before she and my dad would share stories of who they were and what they experienced. It took years before my mom would speak of the chief who was secretly buried in the mountains to prevent the U.S. from desecrating his grave. Her refusal to give me his name or his location because the fear was still there that it had to die with her and those who did know. It took years before she would tell stories about her own mother. Stories of relatives passing for white and the others deliberately mixing with blacks. My dads stories of walking to the reservation to visit his grandmother as an 8 & 9year old. My mom always wanted to go back "home" to South Hill where she as a child, her grandparents, parents and some aunts and uncles left in an attempt to stay under the radar.

[Buffalowm]

BIA = Bury Indian Ancestry

Never thought of it this way....will remember and pass it on as much as possible.

Jade

[Suncerae]

I learned that here in WV, it was illegal to indicate that a person was Indian in WV from 1863 (when we became a State) until 1965...102 years. You could not own land either. So, needless to say, when people are trying to search for their Indian ancestors in WV, there are none on the census. WV has claimed for a long time that this area was only used by Indians for hunting...there is evidence that we lived here.

[Forest]

Actually, they are in the census. Not many, but there are consistently families and individuals listed as Indian in pretty much all the WV censuses. Local draft boards also classified some WV residents as Indian in WWI; again, not many but a few here and there.
Now certainly there may have been a reluctance on the part of many local officials to classify mixed people as Indian, and in other instances the people themselves may have preferred a status other than Indian, but I would be surprised to see actual legislation prohibiting listing persons as Indian.

Interestingly, none of these seem to have been part of actual communities; just scattered families and individuals. I can provide some examples if anyone is interested.

[Suncerae]

I had read that it was illegal for a person to be registered at birth as being Indian in a newsletter from the Applachian American Indians at www.aaiwv-ani.org (http://www.aaiwv-ani.org). They have atime line in November's newsletter and it says that in 1863 when WV became a state until 1965 when the Cicila Rights Acts was passed, that it was then that it was again legal to be registered as Indian on birth records. There may be a few registered as Indians, but it's probably because they were here when we became a state.

[deragland]

This might help explain a few irregularities in my family tree.
David

[Suncerae]

I had read that it was illegal for a person to be registered at birth as being Indian in a newsletter from the Applachian American Indians at www.aaiwv-ani.org (http://www.aaiwv-ani.org). They have atime line in November's newsletter and it says that in 1863 when WV became a state until 1965 when the Civil Rights Acts was passed, that it was then that it was again legal to be registered as Indian on birth records. There may be a few registered as Indians, but it's probably because they were here when we became a state.

BTW...There are so many different versions of what happened with Indians in WV that it is hard to know which is accurrate.I am hoping to find the truth someday

[sammarroq]

The census takers had/have their work cut out for them...then and even now:) Unlike the Piedmont area, Appalachia is to this day full off hollers that can even make the most grounded person loose their bearings. My family, after leaving NC, moved into KY,VA and finally WV...While in KY and VA, they lived along the border, what is known as the Cumberland Peninsula...in the 1900's they moved into WV, the Monongalia area...still very wild land. My cousin has been a census taker and it is still a challenge for someone who has lived in the area all their lives...imagine how it was for those not native to the area...in a time when many thoroughfares, were no more than a dirt path...makes you think, huh? :) Blessings,

Shirley

[Felicia]

Even when cenus takers were around many times they would ask the first house on the street what families were living there (names & ages), which is why you will find many errors in your records. My family and other people that I have spoken too have stated this to me.

[Suncerae]

This newsletter is from the AAIWV (Appalachin AMerican Indians of West Virginia) and there is a very interesting article in it about the census and why many people have a hard time tracking their ancestry. The AAIWV is recognized by the State of WV. Even today, in this beautiful state, I am still ridiculed for being Indian, or someone asking if I have "a card"...do we ask to see the Irish card? Anyway, back to the newsletter. I think it is worth reading:
http://www.aaiwv-ani.org/page2.html