Indian Communities of NC and VA

[barryc]

Many Indian communities don't identify themselves as Indian (such as Browntown in Snow Hill, NC or Greentown in Brunswick CO VA). You'll hear what is heard in my family. "Oh yea, there is Indian in the family". Many see themselves as only Black. Some Indian communities see themselves as Indian only.

Browntown in Snow Hill likely Tuscarora
Brunswick Co VA - likely Saponi
Indian Woods NC, likely Tuscarora
Piney Woods, NC - likely MATTAMUSKEET

The Mattamusteet and Indian Woods people could be related to us. I would estimate that there are many dozens of tri-racial communities in NC and VA. Perhaps 100 or even 200. In Brunswick co I believe that there are four or five different Saponi communities:

Greentown
Charlie Hope
Warfield
Rawlings
Gholsonville
Ante (formally freetown)

Then there are communities like the one in Mecklenburg (Boydton VA) near the Occaneechi island home in Clarksville. This is where I am from. There is a heavy Indian concentration on the road that I lived and in the small town of Boydton but only a few people identify with their Indian heritage.

[Crystal]

Another one in Northampton County is Garysburg. Just outside the Gaston City limits, across town from Bethany. This one has alot of Ransoms in it.

2 more to add to the list, Scevrn County GA and Wilson County NC. These are 2 "pitstops" on the migration pattern as all the surnames in these communities are traceable back to Brunswick, Greensville and Northampton Counties.

Crystal http://winwinworldnet.90.uslive.net/SaponiForum/UBB/smile.gif

[Linda]

Where in Wilson county? We live right on the border of that county.

[xinde]

What a wealth of information, thank you! My father's family comes from Indian Woods and my mother's grandmother who was known to be indian by all (in her town and our family); her maiden name was Ramseur...question...is this a form of the name Ramsom? Would like to know more.... *I highly recommend that all readers of this forum get a hold of Ulali's CD "Mahk Jchi". A Native Womens accapella trio. Two of the women are N.C. Tuscarora. I guarentee you will love it! Especially 'Going Home' Check it out. Bye.

[Crystal]

Ransom has variant spellings. They are very heavily concentrated in Garysburg in Northampton County. They marry into the Poythress line as well as the Cumbo line. The Cumbo line claim Tuscarora as their native ancestry. Have you been able to trace your line back into the border counties of NC or VA?

What other surnames do you have in your family?

[xinde]

Greetings Crystal...Thank you for your prompt reply...Actually thru my GreatGrandmas line I have not been able to trace it further than Lincoln co. Her husband, my Great Granddads' Mother was from Virginia she was also Native..Mariah Morris. Other surnames on my Mothers side..Lander(slave name)...blood name...Mauney(Abram to be exact)...?Wonder if there's any connection to James Mooney of 'Myths of the Cherokee'?........Kaston...Costner...Broome..Kinlo ck...Friday***On my Dads side there's Cherry...Smallwood...Rigsby...Hill. I have been more able to trace and confirm Tuscarora ancestory on my Fathers side because of the history of Indian Woods in Bertie Co. Great family story about Southern exodus I found I have cousins on a New York reservation (but never met them)... I found 2 books very useful, Douglas L. Rrights 'The American Indian in North Carolina and J.Leitch Wright,Jr.s 'The Only Land They Knew' The Tragic Story Of the American Indians in the Old South'. I haven't found a good source yet but I believe that information on the Yamasse and their 'relationship' with the Goose Creek men would shed alot of light on the realities of Indian slavery for all who want to know.........Neahway....Xinde

[barryc]

Yes, we have the CD Ulali's CD "Mahk Jchi" and yes it is excellent. I love it!! The Native American Drum that I sing with has recorded with Ulali.

Below is the Ulali web site: http://www.ulali.com/intro/sitedirmf.htm

[xinde]

Thanks Barry...I Know the site well. What is the name of your Drum? This site is wonderful. For years I have been researching Family History...searching for Family...One thing about North Carolinians we LOVE to talk about familiy history. I heard this once 'An Indian know where He/She comes from....I'd like to get up to Indian Woods before it's bulldozed away. I'm the only of my family that hasn't been. I'm glad the People are getting stronger!!! Neyahway

[xinde]

Thanks Barry...I Know the site well. What is the name of your Drum? This site is wonderful. For years I have been researching Family History...searching for Family...One thing about North Carolinians we LOVE to talk about familiy history. I heard this once 'An Indian know where He/She comes from....I'd like to get up to Indian Woods before it's bulldozed away. I'm the only of my family that hasn't been. I'm glad the People are getting stronger!!! Neyahway

[Linda]

Hello, Xinde, glad to see your interesting posts and history. What's this about Indian Woods getting bulldozed?

Eastern Bull Drum is the name of the Drum Barry's on. Our son, Travis, was just named a Junior Member. The temporary address for the site is www.saponitown.com/easternbull/ (http://www.saponitown.com/easternbull/)

[xinde]

HI LINDA...SORRY I DON'T WANT TO SPREAD RUMORS...OR PUT ANY NEGATIVITY OUT THERE...I LIVE IN GA NOW AND HAVE LITERALLY WATCHED HUNDREDS OF BEAUTIFUL VALLEYS AND ROLLING HILLS GIVE WAY TO WALMARTS AND KROGERS AND ON AND ON AND ON...IT BREAKS MY HEART...I LIVE SO CLOSE... I JUST HAVE TO SEE MY FATHERS HOMELAND BEFORE....I HAD MY FIRST VISIT TO NC IN 75 TO VISIT MY MOMS PEOPLE AND ALL THATS LEFT IS OUR MEMORIES....HIGHWAYS AND MACDONALDS
!@*!@#$....THIS WEEKEND WAS THE OCCANEECHI POWWOW I'M SORRY I MISSED IT. I'M GONNA MAKE IT BACK HOME SOON. CHECKED OUT THE EASTERN DRUM SITE...GREAT...THANK YOU

[Linda]

You wouldn't happen to live near Atlanta, would you? Indian Woods is still a pretty depressed area economically. No industry, nothing. You have to drive at least half an hour just to get to a Wal Mart. It's probably safe from development for awhile, still DEEP country. But that doesn't mean take you time getting out this way. The Matamuskeet in neighboring Piney Woods have their pow wow in August. Let me know if you'd like some contacts and info.

[xinde]

HI LINDA....YES I DO LIVE IN ATLANTA...FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS...NOT ALL BAD...ALOT OF SHAKING UP....I WANT TO COME SOON TO SEE OLD HOME PLACE....MAYBE MEET SOME FAMILY....MY BROTHERS USED TO TELL ME HOW IT WAS IN INDIAN WOODS...AND MY MOTHER, TELLING ABOUT HOW MY DAD GREW UP...SEEMS LIKE NOT ALOT HAS CHANGED...???...ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE SOUTHERN BAND OF TUSCARORA....I USED TO BE ABLE TO CHECK OUT THEIR WEB SITE...CAN'T GET THRU ANY MORE...I WOULD LIKE THE INFORMATION ON THE PINEY WOODS POWWOW...THANK YOU...WE HAVE COMMON FRIENDS...I THINK

[Linda]

There's a very special lady who lives in Piney Woods, I try to visit her when I get the chance. She says there are swans out in the swamps there. Do you have many family left in Indian Woods? I haven't been there yet myself. I was in Windsor once to visit the Livingstons of the Southern Band, but I never got out to Indian Woods. Let me know if you need company, I'd be happy to join you. They say our Saponi people lived there for awhile. I'd like to be on that earth.

[xinde]

id love to see those swans.....love to feel that earth beneath my feet too...soon

[kimmcarthur]

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/pocahontas/

The POWELL's & GREEN's are pocahontas descendants....


The above website ia a very old published document of the Descendants of Pocahontas during the early days....

"Governor Alexander Spotswood of Virginia decided that for the safety of the white settlements living in Greensville, Brunswick and "Mecklenburg Counties"
and the friendly Native Americans living in the area, he would confine them all to one living quarter. Thus, Fort Christanna, named for Christ and Queen Anne was built."


Page 40...Line 5....Peggy Gordon (2nd marriage) Grief Green
of "Mecklenburg County, VA"
______________________

My Great Grandfather , Willie Green married Gertrude (Powell) Green....
She was an mixed Indian.....

_______________________

POWELL:

Origin: Welsh

Spelling variations include: Powell, Powel, and others.

First found in in Breconshire where they were seated from very ancient times, some say well before the Norman Conquest and the arrival of Duke William at Hastings in 1066 AD.

Some of the first settlers of this name or some of its variants were: Caleb and Elizabeth Powel who settled in the Barbados with a child in 1678;
____________________________

John Powell settled in Virginia in 1607,

thirteen years before the "Mayflower"

; later in Virginia were; Ann 1635; Catherine 1623; David 1640; Edward 1654; Elizabeth 1652; Gody 1623; Henry 1635; Howel 1642; James 1655; John 1654; Kat and others.
_________________________

POWELL
http://longislandgenealogy.com/ligpowells.html

Powells (Boughton Moncheusy, Co. Kent, Ednop Newtown), descended from Ethelystan, Glodrydd, Prince of Ferlys, of this family was Richard Powell, of Ednor, author of the Pentarchia, a short History of the Royal Tribes of Wales and their descendants, written in 1623. Sir Nathaniel Powell, of Ewherst, and H. was son of Meredith Powell, and grandson of John Ap Howell of Ednop.

In 1623, living in Virginia on the eastern shore, Thomas Powell and wife Gody.
In 1626, patent granted to Capt. Nathaniel Powell and nine others, Land on the northerly side of the James river.

_____________________________________

James River Plantations
http://www.jamesriverplantations.org/
http://www.jamesriverplantations.com/


____________________________

A Day in the Life of the Powell Family

Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia
http://www.history.org/history/teaching/powells.cfm

___________________________

For additional information on Benjamin Powell or the Benjamin Powell House, go to the following links:

Benjamin Powell
Benjamin Powell House
___________________________


Benjamin was a descendant of the first Powell to come to Virginia....

KIM MCARTHUR

------------------
KIM MCARTHUR

[mdsmokedancer]

Chwe'n,
There are also Native Communities in Southampton County Va(Nottoway) and Winton NC (Nottoway), Buckhead Columbus County NC (Waccamaw). My people are from the two Nottoway Communities as well as Tuscarora (Bertie/Hertford).

Oo-neh
Mike

[Robco]

First of all I'd like to say that there is nothing wrong with being mixed with Black or White. It doesn't make you any less of a person, or change the fact that you have Indian blood (although I don’t feel you can be Indian or Indian at heart if you have “NO” blood at all, but thats a different subject). I'm not a full-blood myself and I'm not here to bash anybody else for holding whatever blood-quantum or racial mix they may have.

But I do want to make it clear that I find the term “Tri-Racial Isolate” to be a most in-accurate and degrading term when applied to my people! I do not find it degrading in the since that there is something wrong with being mixed with blacks or whites. I find it offensive in that it infers that we are merely a bunch of mixed people with some Indian blood in there somewhere, rather than a distinct and seperate nation existing from historical times till present. This inference is false! In all actuality we are Indians, not descendants of Indians! THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE! Please don't undermine our history with inferences such as this!

We lost a lot of our culture over the years due to factors that we had no control over, but I am thankfull that my ancestors made it a priority to preserve the bloodlines and keep our communities strong! Do not belittle and insult their struggles!

It’s no secret that ‘SOME” Lumbees have black blood here and there while others have “SOME” white blood. The key thing to note is that the Indian blood is the core of our communities! We are a distinct Indigenous nation. Although some members have intermarried with non-native people (more-so in recent years than in the past) here and there, that does not make us tri-racial! It just makes us a ‘TRIBE” that has “SOME” tri/bi-racial members!

I have members of my family that are mixed with white and some who are mixed with Black! But that mixture does not come (to any 'SIGNIFICANT' degree anyway) from ancestors listed on our “BASE ROLLS,” some of which are almost a hundred and twenty years old. That mixture comes from mixing with non-Lumbee neighbors, and for the most part only exists in the younger generations!

Every single person in my family that is listed as full-blood, according to our tribal enrollment records, looks just like the full-bloods from any reserve out there! They are “BROWN” Skinned and most have “NATURALLY STRAIT” dark-brown/black hair! Never have I ever been told that I am part Black, nor do any of my ancestors have any features that make me suspect that I may be! If for some reason I thought I was part Black I would claim it! But why would I claim something that “I AM NOT” There is nothing wrong with being mixed with black, I have cousins that are and I still consider them Indian! “BUT I AM NOT GOING TO CLAIM SOMETHING THAT I AM NOT!!!!!!!

You people need to educate yourselves, before you make inferences like this! I'm not saying there's anything wrong with tri-racial people, I just don't think it's right to label people falsely!

[mdsmokedancer]

Chwe'n,
If there are communities that are Tri-racial and they choose to identify as black,let them,if that is there choice,too many times people go into these communities and tell the people that they have some Native blood and that they should change from being black and become Indian. The majority are happy being black and want to stay black,to me those that are trying to influence them to change to Indian,because they might have some Native blood and they are also a part of that community,are really saying I don't like being black. But Native Communities that have always identified as Native,lived as Native,are Native,and then are refered to as Tri-racial.That is wrong. It is degrading to a people that are proud of who they are. You are calling them mixed-bloods,half-breeds,mutts and all other deragatory names used.I go to Ceremonies (Longhouse) and if this gets out that certain people have been calling Tuscarora(Robeson County/Sampson County/Bertie County/Hertford County)people Tri-racial they will probably be banned from anymore Ceremonies. I hope this doesn't happen,but it could. There are some that have heard already. Myself and Derick both attend these Ceremonies.

Oo-neh
Mike

[barryc]

Robco, Mike and Kid

I wrote that post a long time ago. You both make some good points. I would not write that same post today.

Thanks

Barry

[barryc]

Mike, Kid and Derek:

Things are not as simple as I stated in my post five years ago in April 2001. I have learned a lot since then. It is not my place to be defining the race of communities of people. Others have been doing this to us long enough. I fully support individuals and communities defining for themselves their race. This is the same respect that I am asking of others who look at our community. I apologize.

Barry

[Brenda Ferrell Sampsel]

I think Barry's apology is very sincere and thank him for making it and I respect the good intentions of all here.

We all learn and grow in understanding of ourselves and others over time, especially when we talk respectfully about matters that are difficult or even very personal, even though doing so is some times a little painful or scary, or stirs up anger or our feelings of needing to protect those we love and are responsible for taking care of....

So many life stories, so much to know, so much to understand....

The labels of the past and "historical scholarship" of the past have made communication even more difficult. It is so hard to remember to qualify and define every term every time, or find a new, unpolluted language for expressing what we are trying to say. I think Barry is saying that he would no longer use the term that he used five years ago today.

It's a term we inherited from out-dated anthropology or eugenics, so I say good ridance, too!

Blessings to all,
Brenda

[Robco]

Originally posted by mdsmokedancer
Chwe'n,
But Native Communities that have always identified as Native,lived as Native,are Native,and then are refered to as Tri-racial.That is wrong.

My thoughts exactly!

I was born being Indian because that’s what my forefathers were before me and raised me to be, not because I thought it was cool or wanted to deny some other heritage that others say that I allegedly have!

My people, as we are today, were born out of the carnage and genocide that was taking place since the onslaught of colonization in North Carolina!

There are points in time that others have labeled us as being "other free persons" but never do you see any records of anyone self identifying as either black or White! They may have omitted to tell others who they were, when it was necessary for survival, but never did they ever claim something else!

In 1885 my people went to the state of North Carolina and asked for our own school systems, not for recognition as Indian because it was a given, something that we were unquestionably known to be! No one came in and told us we were Indian! We knew that’s what we were, and without hesitation the state granted us the right to run our own schools for our distinctly separate INDIGENOUS COMMUNITES!

Three years later we went to the FEDERAL GOVERMENT in Washington DC and asked for further assistance with our completely under funded educational system and were denied assistance "SOLELY" because we could already speak English and the funds were not available for , as was said, us or any other "CIVILIZED TRIBES." The point to note is that in our first dealings with them (almost a hundred and twenty years ago) the Bureau of Indian affairs even addressed us as a tribe “without question,” because it was a given! WE HAVE ALLWAYS BEEN INDIANS, NEVER DID WE JUST WAKE UP ONE DAY AND DECIDE TO BE SO!

I've read over testimonials given by my ancestors on how they were laughed at and ridiculed for speaking their native language! We had to give up a lot in order to survive! But our people adapted and we ARE STILL HERE and STRONG! There are currently 56,000 on our rolls and another 6,000 on the Tuscarora rolls (we are the same people, we just identify by different names)!

There have been over nine FEDERALLY COMMISSIONED investigations and reports on my people. EVERY ONE OF THEME CONCLUDED THAT WE ARE INDIANS NOT DESCENDANTS OF INDIANS! There has been debate as to which linguistic stock and or what pre-colonial tribe(s) conglomerated to form us and had the strongest influence on us, but that is the “ONLY” question that there has ever been!

In 1914 one report clearly stated that "ONE WOULD READILY CLASS A LARGE MAGORITY OF THE TRIBE AS BEING AT LEAST 3/4th's INDIAN! Another report stated that we had "MAINTAINED OUR RACE INTEGRITY, there was a SMALL admixture with the colonial races (i.e. whites) and an EVEN SMALLER admixture with other races (i.e. Blacks!). In the 1930's there were even a few individuals here "FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED" as being 1/2 or more Indian blood and even received some services. In 1956 the US congress FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED the whole tribe in a bill that opened with the statement “Whereas many Indians (not descendants of indians) now living in Robeson and adjoining counties are descendants of that once large and prosperous tribe which occupied the lands along the Lumbee River at the time of the earliest white settlements in that section”

WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INDIANS! Mentally, spiritually, and PHYSICALLY! So what if a “few” other people “may” have wondered into the gene pool “here and there” centuries ago! Those people were absorbed! The Lakota’s absorbed a lot of French blood before they were placed on reservations, but you don’t see any of them going around telling people that they are French because they had a great-ggggggg….. Grandparent who was! They don’t claim French because they’re not French, they are Lakota! I am Lumbee and I am not going to claim descent from anything other than what I am and have always been!

[quest for facts]

I don't think anyone disagrees with that Robco.
Linda

[Robco]

Just so you know, I'm not trying to send hostility your way! I appreciate your apology and I didn't realize that you made that post five years ago.

I made that last post because I felt it was nessicary for everyone else who might read this thread to hear the information I provided! So please don't take any of it personal, it wasn't directed at you.

[barryc]

Robco, Mike, Kid and others:

The Indians in Roberson county and other places such as Holister are very lucky people. Your communities were large enough to withstand the genocide of the past 500 years intact as Indian people. There are many Indian communities and Indian people in VA and NC that simply were not large enough to withstand the tide. Many of these people or communities never forgot that they were Indian. Others, however, did forget. For the people who did forget, much of this happened in the last couple of generations, especially with the black power movement of the 1960’s and the exodus north for jobs leaving smaller communities depleted. I know of Indian people that worked really hard to get their straight hair, kinky so they could have an afro in the 1960's, and "pass" for black. Many were successful. For many communities elders hung on for centuries only to lose it in the last few decades.

When one goes through a 500-year holocaust people take many different paths to survive. Larger communities will take a different path from smaller communities or individual families who are up against the tide alone. However, for the people who are truly Indian its makes them no less Indian regardless of which path was taken.

For the tens of thousands of Indian people in Va and NC who were not lucky enough to be part of a community of 5,000, 10,000 or 50,000 Indians, they were not only up against physical violence and death (physical genocide) and paper genocide (in Va especially), they were up against mental genocide, with horrible brainwashing efforts by Euro-Americans. Unlike the larger communities who had strong support systems, they were up against it alone. From 1492 forward the attempted brainwashing of Indian people started. Where I am from in Brunswick co va, our community is still on reservation land (fort Christanna) which was established in 1713, for Siouan people and where much of the brainwashing started, in a school they established to strip us of our culture.

I see people all of the time where I live, who are as Indian as the people in Roberson county, but who “pass” as Black. When I talk to them and look at their genealogy they have more Indian ancestry than any other race. When I talk to them I find that their ways and culture are Indian. The problem that I have with this is as follows:

1) There was an intentional effort by Euro-Americans at mental genocide, to brainwash Indians to forget their race and culture. If the Euro-Americans were successful then the land is free for the taking. The Euro-Americans have been highly successful, so far, with tens of thousands of Indian people in VA and NC, who were not lucky enough to live in a large Indian populated area such as Pembroke or Holister. Many of these people’s values and culture are still however Indian.

2) For every Indian person who forgets he or she is Indian more Indian political power is lost to Euro-Americans.

I have a problem letting this brainwashing stand and losing our land and political power because of it. You see, the issue of who owns Turtle Island is far from over in my eyes. North American is a brown continent that will always be brown and we will have it back. So awakening Indian people is important to me. Personally I am not seeking recognition from the government because democracy, our current government, social system and economy are temporary and does not matter.

Not only was the mental genocide done in the south, it was done in the north and the Caribbean. However, the most blatant case is Mexico (which is part of north america) separated only by an artificial apartheid border to keep Indians weak. 90% of the people in Mexico are American Indian and yet if you ask a Mexican if they are Indian most will say no. As long as Indian people, accept the brainwashing of Euro-America, Indians will not have significant political power. Our numbers are simply too small and we are forced to accept government recognition, hand outs and crumbs from the table. I am working on an article right now that I am planning to send to all of the major newspapers dealing with this.

So it is not a matter of convincing people that they are something that they aren’t. It is not a matter of people having one to two Indian ancestors 10 generations ago. My interest is re-awakening people who have accepted the Euro-brainwashing who are actually Indian. There are 100 million Indians in Mexico and tens of thousands in VA and NC. Think of how the balance of power shifts from Euro-American and its destructive culture, when Mexicans re-awaken to their true identity and culture. They will begin challenging their classification as illegal aliens in their own homelands. And this awakening is what it will take for the North American continent to once again be Indian. It will also require Indians to embrace one another; regardless of what path we took through the holocaust. It will also take us forgetting the crumbs from the dominant culture’s table and to begin thinking about re-taking not only the table and the whole kitchen but also the house. And I am not talk violence, I am talking peace because the meek shall inherent the earth. When we eventually do embrace our southern American Indian brothers, and erase the illegal border separating our land, our numbers swell to over 100,000,000 on the North American continent.

And for the record I have nothing against white people. “Many of my closest friends are white.” I have a problem with their destructive social systems, beliefs and values and the arrogance by which they believe that it is best and most civilized system in the history of humanity. I have a problem with the destructiveness of their believes, values and systems and the death, destruction, and brutal rape and murder that it has and it reeking on mother earth, the animals and people, while in denial of their actions.

Barry
434-374-5178

[Robco]

I respect what you are doing Barry and I encourage you to keep it up!

I get a little heated sometimes when it comes to my people! I apologize if i've insulted you or anyone else!

My intention was to deliver an accurate portrayal of my peoples history, not pass judgement on anyone else, exspecially people who suffered through the same transgressions we did!

What about them mexicans though? Statistically they say they will be the largest population in this country by the year 2050! Which I think is wondeful! We're taking this country back slowly but surely!

[Saponi 1]

Yes Robo, Mexicans are indeed indigenous. And everytime I see them in the Piedmont of VA and NC I feel slightly vindicated and find it even somewhat ironic that those that tried to rid the South East of Indians--have brought them back. It's also somwhat funny that by changing their names from their tribal origins and nations--the colonials conveniently don't see indians....

Indian people need to wake up.--I've heard some say some very unenlightened thing about Mexicans, Puerto Ricans--they happen to be indigenous. I don't think I'd go that far with Haiwains (sp) but definitely the Mexicans and Carribean indians. It is awesome to be proud of our own families, tribes and nations. But we can not and should not let tribalism in it's most negative form destroy us. Today as a people we continue to suffer from many divisions. I hope and pray all of our recent visitors to Saponitown will stay and continue a respectful discourse.

I haven't ventured into this fray because I actually feel disagreements can be positive if we learn from the experience, also I think it has been a painful lesson for many but a reality in the attitudes that have been formed out of the 500 year history of the colonization of this continent. I'll write more later.

But let's continue...no one should leave...just be respectful across the board.

Saponi1

[barryc]

Thanks for the kind words. Everything is cool. It is good to see that there is some consensus on the Mexican thing. I know what many of the Euro-Americans will say. I'm just not sure what kind of reception I will get from the Indian community on this. Sometimes we can be very fragmented. I've been shot in the back before, by our own people as I led the charge to protect Indian land and another time to tell the truth of the holocaust. But I have to do what the ancestors call me to do. Thanks Barry

[Buffalowm]

Barry,
You are so right about being lucky to be a part of the larger Indian communities such as Pembroke, Hollister etc. Even though there are probally thousands of Haliwa Saponi people who are still in Halifax and Warren counties, hence the Haliwa in the tribal name, we are still not recognized as such because we moved a few miles outside of " the community". My reason for moving back to Warren Co was to help those of us left out of the mix so to speak to rise up and claim the heritage that is rightfully ours. That is why what you are doing is important for all of us. Creator made us and it is His desire that we come together again and be as one.

Barry, just want you to know I am 100% behind you in bringing our people together as one. There is strength in numbers and the government knows that. This is the reason they want to keep the tribal rolls at a minimun.

Haliwagirl

[mdsmokedancer]

Chwe'n,
I work at the Employmet Office in Robeson Co. NC. I am fluent in Spanish,I'm the bilingual consultant there. I speak with hundreds of Mexicans a week.,from many different Nations(Tribes) of Mexico. Many speak their Native languages as well as Spanish. I have learned many words from the Indian dilects of Mexico.They are good people. The word "Indian" has become a derogatory word in Mexico like the "N" word here in the US. That is why alot of Mexican people don't want to be called "Indian", they also say that they are "Nativo" Native to the land, or Mexican or Mixtec,Aztec,Zapotec,Trique,Tarahumara,Mayan,etc.I subscribe to "Indian Country" and there was an article about the Mexican population and the emmigration law trying to be passed. The Mexican have a slogan on their T-Shirts saying "We don't cross borders,borders crossed us" and " Mexican,Not Latino,Not Hispanic". There is a Tribe in Mexico called "Mejicano"

Oo-neh
Mike

[barryc]

Thanks Haliwagirl for the supporting words.

Mike, my spouse and four of my nine children are Mexican-Indian. So I understand what you are saying about Mexican's seeing the Indian word. Now the children are proud to say they are Indian. The problem is or should I say opportunity is as such; the day that Mexicans stand up and say we ARE American Indians is the day that power shift from Euro-America to Indians on Turtle Island This simple statement from 100 million Indians also says with power-the border is illegal, we are indigenous and not aliens, you are the aliens here. It will be a brain twister for Euro-American but the truth is self-evident and will eventually prevail. So we have a catch 22.

It is like Black people in the 50's of whom 99% were insulted when called Black. Then in the 1960's some small group somewhere came up with the idea of, "I'm Black and I'm proud". Overnight Black people wanted to be called black. All it takes in a trigger to set off an atomic bomb when the engery is already there. However, without the trigger the bomb is mere potential energy. We can be the trigger.

Barry

[1_optimistic]

Thank you all for putting yourselves and your family on the line for ALL American Indian people, especially us INDIANS who passed for Black/African Americans for two or three generations. I've connected with some great people who do welcome me with open arms. I'm finally getting through to my mother about our heritage. Believe me............we still struggle with Black/African Americans today that have no doubt in their minds that we are Indian and give us a hard time because of our features.

It is just hard..........hard to reverse brainwashing that has gone on for many generations. My people stayed in Southside VA and North Eastern NC up until my parent's generation. Yes, the last generation moved away for jobs, etc. We are who we are....regardless of circumstances in the past.

Thanks again for those who are taking the initiative to take a stand for the PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE GENERATIONS. WE ARE STILL HERE WORLD!!!!:D

[Linda]

Barry, I just have to say, that is one of the most hostile avatars I've ever seen. Are you sure about that choice of photos? Anytime anybody reads one of your posts they're going to want to be dodging for cover.

[Buffalowm]

Barry,
I have to agree with Linda. I love you man, but that avatar has got to go....smile. It's good to read something to make us smile for a change...

Jade

[quest for facts]

Linda,
To answer your question were in Wilson County.....that question you had all those years ago the answer is SARATOGA!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a resounding SARATOGA!!!!!!!! LOL There was and still are a big cluster of Nottoway and Tuscarora families in and all around Saratoga. The Bass lines are there to (Nansemond). This is were my grandfather came from.
Linda

[Brenda Ferrell Sampsel]

Quest For Facts,
I am going to take this and start a new thread. This looks like something that should stand alone for further comment. Sounds like you are excited about a new discovery!

Brenda

[barryc]

Sometimes there is a time to put on ones war face. The email that I am about to release to the press regarding North American Indians, requires me to shift to warrior mode. It is the warrior face that empowered us to keep the golf course out of Occoneechee State Park. In times such as this one must expect attacks from everywhere: white society, some Indians, even some Mexicans. Many people have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo regardless of how it got there and who is oppressed by it now including their own people.

No other tribe took a position on the golf course, except the Sappony and I was personally and publicly attacked by our closest Indian friends regarding it. However, issues such as the golf course or Mexicans as Indians are issues where the ancestors are calling and there is no choice. The Mexican Indian issue is the only way that real power will come to Indians in America. It will get us off of the “recognition” addiction that Indian people are suck on. Recognition is no more than crumbs from the table and we need to be focused on the table and far more. Recognition keeps us fighting one another. So one must get prepared for battle and face the consequences when they come. And getting prepared as a warrior is part of getting prepared.

If we are smart we will accept as allies anyone who is truly an ally and get off of this who is Indian stuff. In the end we will discover that America is Indian, and rather than us being converted white, as was the white plan, everyone will be converted Indian or to Indian culture. This is not bad because we live in a world where white people have us all on a dead end road and we must get off this road or we will all die. This is why this forum is made of people from local Saponi Indian communities in Southside Virginia who are members of the Fort Christanna Saponi-Occoneechee tribe (FCSO) and individuals whose Indian ancestors moved away (now scattered all over the country) centuries ago and these individuals are looking to connect or reconnect with their Indian ancestry. Granted there are few of our local Saponi-Occoneechee tribal people who post here. However, most of our tribal people in our Indian communities are either not computer literate or they are quiet and reserved people.

Last year there was a big misunderstanding on this forum regarding which of these two groups actually owns this web site and forum because we, FCSO, had been so silent on the forum that we started. But the trend towards America becoming Indian is a good thing and it will continue and there is no way to stop it whether Indians, whites, blacks or Mexicans resist it. This is because it is the will of the ancestors!

Barry

[Brenda Ferrell Sampsel]

Barry,

This topic seems more in line with the "Indian Issues" forum rather than the "Share History Research" Forum. Note that this thread is titled ""Tri-Racial Isolates of NC and VA" and you already apologized with sensitivity for using that old term from the pseudo-science of the past that feels so hurtful to many folks who didn't like being objectified that way in academic papers and who also suffered/suffer from active assaults on their survival as a community. Please, lets all let this thread go. I hate to see that word staring up at the top of the list and other things being posted to it are getting lost, too.

Thanks a bunch,
Brenda

[barryc]

Brenda:

1) Linda brought up off topic issue of hositle Avatars so your post should be directed to Linda. I was just responding to Linda.

2) Please don't try to explain my apology. This is the second time you have put words in my mouth and the second time they were not what I said. This is not the Indian way. Let a person's words be their words. If anyone needs futher clarification they can ask the author.

3) If you have advice to give in facilitating a thread, some of this is best done off line for several obvious reasons.

Barry

[Black Dutch]

Do you know the names of the Saponi from Warren Co., N.C.?

[Buffalowm]

Hi Black Dutch,
I live in Warrenton (Warren Co.), I assume you want the common surnames as well as the tribe. Well, the surnames are: Harris, Lynch, Richardson,Evans, Copeland and a few are: Jones, Williams, and Hardy. The tribe name is Haliwa Saponi. Actually, they are a mixture of Tuscarora, Meherrin, Nottoway and Saponi. There is no such thing as a Haliwa indian. The Haliwa comes from Hali (Halifax) and Wa (Warren) counties. My maternal grandmother is Haliwa Saponi and Cheroenhaka (Nottoway) and her mother (Harris) was from Hollister where the Haliwa Saponi are located.

I hope this will answer your question..

Jade:)

[Koreana]

Brenda:

1) Linda brought up off topic issue of hositle Avatars so your post should be directed to Linda. I was just responding to Linda.

2) Please don't try to explain my apology. This is the second time you have put words in my mouth and the second time they were not what I said. This is not the Indian way. Let a person's words be their words. If anyone needs futher clarification they can ask the author.

3) If you have advice to give in facilitating a thread, some of this is best done off line for several obvious reasons.

Barry
I think you are awesome, man! My hero.

[Black Dutch]

Hi Black Dutch,
I live in Warrenton (Warren Co.), I assume you want the common surnames as well as the tribe. Well, the surnames are: Harris, Lynch, Richardson,Evans, Copeland and a few are: Jones, Williams, and Hardy. The tribe name is Haliwa Saponi. Actually, they are a mixture of Tuscarora, Meherrin, Nottoway and Saponi. There is no such thing as a Haliwa indian. The Haliwa comes from Hali (Halifax) and Wa (Warren) counties. My maternal grandmother is Haliwa Saponi and Cheroenhaka (Nottoway) and her mother (Harris) was from Hollister where the Haliwa Saponi are located.

I hope this will answer your question..

Jade:)
I have a #3-William Williams (Bertie Co., N.C.) born ca. 1700 in Bertie. He is descended from 2-Anthony Williams who married Martha Bush. 1-Lewis Williams married Mary Walburton. Have #4-Jesse Hardy (3-Lemuel, 2-William, and 1-John Hardy). Lemuel Hardy married Eliz. Parrott and her mother was Frances Johnson. These families go back to the earliest records in The Bertie-Chowan area of N.C. Also descend from Barefield family and see them living next to Meherrin Indian Town in Chowan.
I see some of the Hardy's moving to Lincoln Co., GA and Williams moving to Sampson Co., N.C., they had one child they named Three Williams!
Have heard that Jenkins and Parrott's are tied to Tuscarora Tribe. Have Jenkins, Hammond, Terrell and others in Granville/Warren area in mid to late 1700's.
From your posts I know you are quite knowledgeable of the families connected to Saponi.

[Buffalowm]

Hi Black Dutch,
There are many of the Haliwa Saponi that are of Tuscarora descent. There is a book I found in the library that had the history of all counties in NC. They listed the early inhabitants. On that list for Warren Co ...and they are listed in order of the majority that were living in the area at the time...they were: Tuscarora, (there was another small NDN tribe..can't remember right now..I don't have the info with me here at work), European, Scotch-Iris, and last African. Tuscarora being the largest of the population at the time Warren Co became a county. Also in Martin and Bertie counties, Tuscaroras were the majority. My grandfather (mom's father) is Tuscarora and he is from Martin Co. We have family buried in Indian Woods cemetery which is located on the old Tuscarora reservation.

You mentioned a way of knowning when someone responds to your post. There is an option you can chose where your personal info is , that will allow you to get an email when someone responds to your post. Send me an PM with your email address and I will be happy to talk with you by phone to answer any questions you may have.

Wankan Tanka kici un (Creator Bless You)

Jade

[Dorothy McComb]

I requested anothe ID : dori. because I couldn't access site.

Now I am getting through ----please disregard todays ( 01/29/07) request.

I will keep original Dorojthy McComb

Thank you

Dorothy