The Debate

[mrspatino]

So heres the debate since I have been out, I have had some talks with different people about Saponi Origins.
The Debators: one Lakota and one Odawa

The Question: What are are origins? Where does our Language originate from, who are we relations of?

Ok so this was what came from it, mind you this debate came from two different people who in their own right are well respected traditional people.

Lakota View and stories that have been heard are that we are from the Lakota family but that we are cousins so to speak. Now I will be the first to shamefully admit that I have not been able to learn Saponi/Tutelo Language, but am slowly working on my Lakota. Anyway I dont know enough about our language to say that our language roots itself in Lakota.

Now the Odawa he claims that we are from the North and blood and language relation to the Anishenabe.

It's nice to know we are fought over hu? HQA Ha ha

So what do you think, I mean in my opinion we are possibly a culmation of several nations.

For myself I am glad that when I wake up in the morning, I know where my heart is, with or without a card in my wallet telling me who I am.

[techteach]

mrspatino
I am not an expert, but I have done some looking into the language when one forum person sent the Grandma's song to the forum. What I found is that it is related to Lakota Sioux (I think I have that right.), Winnebago (Ho-Chunk) and Mandan. Check out http://www.native-languages.org/famsio.htm , http://www.languagegeek.com/siouan/siouan.html , and http://spot.colorado.edu/~koontz/ .
Ioway is also related. It is interesting to me that my family followed those lines as they went west, like they were settling among people who spoke a language they could understand.

Techteach

[mrspatino]

Yes exactly, it's kind of a joke sometimes with our Anishenabe friends that they can never be wrong, but several of my Lakota brothers basicly have said that we are their relations, and I have heard that we the Sioux Lakota Dakota ect... actually moved from the east into the west in ancient times, a realy strange example of ancient migration I figured out while we were in Georgia last summer, actually the town of Hellen, a little German settlement with an amazing statepark, anyway I jumped in on this "presentation" so to speak about the Cherokee and their tools, way of life , you know, so Juan and I jumped in this thing just to see how acurate it was, and I actually learned that the Cherokee, have an ancient tool, I think it was for hunting, but the name of the tool the Cherokee used for the tool was not in their language, it was in my husbands language! Nauhtl the language of the Mexica, so basicly that means at some point the Mexica and the Cherokee actually came in enough contact with eachother to share, learn and trade.

Oh and an interesting bit of info about native languages came from last September or Octobers issue of National Geographic, they published a poster size print of the ancient Languages and current Tribal lands, some one should pick it up or order it, Get it framed for the campout, that would be a nice conversation piece, We are on it!

[Linda]

I'm very glad to hear you know Lakota who acknowledge our connection. Actually, there are some who say that the Sioux tribes started in the Carolina cornfields. Others say they started in Ohio, then split east and west when the Seneca made life unbearable in Ohio.

Some say that the Tutelo language is older that Lakota. Well, I guess it would be since it hasn't been spoken much in 300 years. But the Lakota is more truncated, you know, extra syllables dropped over the years for convenience, the way we're slurring and slanging English nowadays.

Don't be apologetic for slow progress with Tutelo. You're on the right track studying Lakota first. It's a living, functional language, and if you get a familiarity with it, you'll be able to make much more sense of the fragmentary material that exists on Tutelo.

I've also been told that some say many SE tribes, including the Cherokee came originally up through central America. If that's true, it would not be surprising that a basic word would carry over.

[mrspatino]

Honestly, you guys would love the Lakotas I know, goood people, humble for some lookers, but they are brutely honest. And they dont BS, I mean if they know something they will tell you if you give them tobaco, but if they dont know, they will try to help you find out. That is really interesting Linda, I might have to run that by my friend and see if he has heard anythin more about our origination.

Recaping on that Cherokee Tool in Nahuatl

Juan just told me what the name of that tool is, it is called an "Atllatl" pronounced (Ahtel) it is a spear thrower, maybe Vance knows something about the Cherokee hanging out with the Mexica.

Yea I will get to the Tutelo some day, right after I learn spanish and lakota, good grief I might be a hundred by then LOL.

I just want to add this bit.

I Love our Website! The people on this site are GGG Reat!!!
I mean even when we debate, it is so clear, well thoughtout debate, my poor husband, his Mexica Site is just full of Mexica folks soooo full of themselves, and angry mmm mmm mmm, we need to pray for them.. Bless their hearts.

I think my favorite one today was that Ceremonies are ours and everyone else keep out... I thought huh? I thought Ceremonies were Wakantankas.
It's like kids fighting over candy, mine, mine, mine,