stomp dances

[itconani]

stomp dances
interesting enough, stomps were probably the closest traditional style of dancing in this region va./nc - closely related to contemporary smoke and longhouse dances from up north. folks still stomp in cherokee nc. however no one outside that area has taken up much interest in revitalizing the social nature of the stomp! what could you offer in the way of know how on stomps? who else knows etticate on stomps? any women out there no how to shake? stomps could an old but new item for region...

[Linda]

Funny you should mention that. We're working on plans for a workshop on Tutelo singing and dancing. Many of these survived up at Six Nations and are part of the regular social dances still enjoyed there.

The date is February 23rd, location tentatively Greenville, NC unless someplace else is more central. We could also do it in Lawrenceville, VA if that's more central. (That's near I95 and the VA/NC border.) Who all is interested? Where will you all (ya huk) be coming from?

[itconani]

hey ya huk
now ive got it.
what is the format for the work shop?
is this what from L. Dumore has done?
Greenville as in ECU Greenville?
im more up for Border patrol.
but who all is coming and what are their travel needs?
ive got lots of stomps - and a few longhouse. any body read sheet music?
ive got good reference on stomp but dont have all the melodies - i dont read sheet music. hence the call response deflection / reflection is missing from those. or are these tutelo dances ready to go?
are there shakers or just lead rattle?

[barryc]

what is the format for the work shop?

BC: I'll see if I can get Joey to come onto the forum and give more details. He is the one setting it up.

is this what from L. Dumore has done?

No, we plan on inviting Lawrence to see if he is willing to help teach. We know another fellow. He sang some of the songs at the Loris Pow Wow is SC and is really good.

Greenville as in ECU Greenville?
im more up for Border patrol.

BC: We have the Eastern Bull Center where it may be held. But likely this will be too small and will have to move it to ECU. However, if we get more VA people interested from Southside Virginia/Piedmont Native American Descendants Association (SVNADA) people then we will likely move it to VA. We will also invite the NC Occaneechi as well as some of the Haliwa guys that we Pow Wow with.

ive got lots of stomps - and a few longhouse.

BC: Hey this would be great.

any body read sheet music?

BC: Yea, some of the people do. Maybe Joey or Linda can answer the rest of the questions.

Barry

[Anishinabee]

RE: Stomp dances

Will you be using hand drums or water drums?
The stomp dances are alive and well among the Iroquois up North. There are social dance nights at most centers (Indian Centers)weekly. The one in Toronto is held on Thursday evening. If you get a chance to get up that way, it might be worth checking out.
I did not know of any published stompdance music. I thought that all of this type of music and dances were handed orally by others at the longhouse.

[itconani]

hey there
ive got a few people interested from Virginia.
since this would be yalls gig - we'll follow your lead. but, the greenville hike might be farther than we could do, getting away from family and all. we'll see who else comes out of va as time goes by. keep me posted.

on up north -
yes indeed longhouse, smoke, stomp dances are alive and well. this is a taught dance and one that is past down. of course their are some differences between northern styles / groups and their southern cousins. ive been in both, and of course have seen a wide variety of variety exhibited. these dances are tradition, but also exchanged. many in the south have worked on bringing the stomp back into alabama, georgia, and now eastern VA/NC.
in as much, published tapes, records, and CD record stomps and songs. Some indians have degrees in Music theory - and return to our musical resources for inspiration. the work i have is from one women's dissertation. shes western cherokee and focused her attentions on southern stomp. she also did some comparison of southern cherokee and northern iroqouios stomp dances / songs. Check out Charlotte Heth.

[Linda]

I'd like to use gourd drums, since that's what William Byrd observed in use at Fort Christanna in 1723(?). Here's a post I published a few months ago on the subject.



I'm hereby creating a myth. Last spring I got interested in learning to sing Tutelo songs that have been kept in use by the Iroquois up north. Down here, we used gourd drums. I started thinking about maybe growing some gourds. Before I could get around to it, though, I noticed a big vine growing in my garden. Birdhouse gourds. I didn't plant any birdhouse gourds. I planted some seeds a couple years earlier, but nothing came up.

The vine took over the garden and thrived. I tried cutting a few vines with blossoms, to encourage the existing gourds to grow bigger. That only resulted in a growth spurt. Twenty four gourds grew to maturity.

The first frosts have been here and the vine has died, leaving all 24 of those gourds prominent in the garden now. I was passing by them down the driveway and I thought of that movie, "Coccoon" where the aliens had survived for millenium in those big pods. The thought occurred to me that that's what the gourds were. Only no aliens, just natives.

Anyway, these are some very special gourds. If I give you a drum made from one of them, it will be a significant gift and you will be required to find the voice in that drum, and have a duty to see that the drum is cared for and survives. They will not be for sale.

Anyway, I was thinking about this today, and I think that since this is a learning workshop we should count off in two different groups. Group A sings and drums along, while Group B dances. Then we do the song again with Group B singing and drumming with group A dancing. I think that way will involve the maximum amount of learning. All those special gourds won't be ready, but I have three and can probably make a few more before then. There are also some hand drums around and rattles.


[This message has been edited by Linda (edited 01-07-2002).]

[vance hawkins]

howdy --

The Stomp dance is alive and well here in Oklahoma, too. Cherokee, Shawnee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, Seminole, and even Caddo (Original people of Oklahoma who speak a Siouxian language as well) all do stomps.

I've been to a few stomps in NE Oklahoma. Maybe they do stomps differently back East. There is no drum here. Folks dance around the Sacerd Fire at night, and sometimes they last till dawn. Folks who run the dance are from the Nitehawk Keetoowah Society (not to be confused with Keetoowah band of Cherokee, a political organization. Nitehawk Keetoowah's are a religious group. The "Nitehawk" is the Owl.)

I could get in touch with them if you'd e-mail me at cwyhawkins@yahoo.com. Those folks are not easy to get in touch with. Keetoowahs are the most traditional of the Cherokee, and many are full-bloods.

The Chief (that's his title)of the Stomping Grounds is the Head Fire Starter, the man who keeps the sacred fire. He also makes medicine. There is a head singer and there are seven dancers asked to help the lead singer. The women all wear turtle shell beads. Everyone dances counter-clockwise around the fire, not clockwise like pow-wow's. There are 7 benches forthe seven clans, but I've heard some Chiclamaugan groups have 8, one for the "lost" bear clan that is said to return one day.

Anyone can dance at these events except menstrating women, who can not attend.

These are social events and everyone laughs and has a good time.


vance hawkins

[vance hawkins]

I meant to say the women all wear turtle shell rattles, not beads. They are worn around the ankles. I have a few stomp dancing songs on tape, and you can buy them from various places.

vance hawkins

[itconani]

hey all -

yes i am familiar with the style and organization Vance is talking about. However i think we have several different styles up for discussion here. the similiar longhouse dances up north often use the waterdrum - as did several groups in va/nc previously in history.
however, contemporary stomps do not. Longhouse do, and their songs and dances are slightly different. so we have a variety of material to work with, and the choice is what to do. A)Is there an already established, known tutelo song and dance documentation from cayuga or other iroquoian sources? B)if not do we go the road of Iroquois style smoke / longhouse dancing and singing? C) investigate stomps as done in NC already using western contemporary sources? D) wing it. All of these work only with dedication except for D) - my experience with singing pow wows is that this never works. Additionally, you need peole willing to learn songs - structure and meaning - so to be able to be flexible and balanced. Once framework is learned, new songs can be written. And then there is the dances and shakers / instruments: these have to used properly and with rythym. In the past, a few good singers and a few good drummers helps. Rattles could suffice for a while on the stomps until more material develops. What is the goal? Is the goal to bring a type of traditional music back to the area? Could the framework of Stomp or longhouse work to later begin implementing Tutelo into? i think these ideas need to be fleshed out by the organizers.

[Linda]

Okay, Choice A) applies. The Tutelo songs are established. I have a tape of a number of them. I also have Bill Crouse's smoke dance tape. I haven't gone through the two systematically to verify, but many of his songs correspond to those on the Tutelo tape. But there's a month to get this done. The young man we've invited to lead the group sounds a lot like Bill Crouse. The basic difference is that the tempo is a bit faster, livelier. Other than that it appears to be faithful to the older versions.

My main goal is for it to be a lot of fun, everybody gets instantly hooked and we go from there. Everybody gets to try their hand at all aspects and see what they like doing. From that we can work on specializing on what we're each best at. The goal is to have a group of people well versed in these songs and dances and ready to stomp at their own events, feasts, etc.

[vance hawkins]

I have a Tuscarora friend in Six Nations in Canada who is very interested in the welfare of the unenrolled of Virginia.

I think he might be willing to help yall out. I'll ask him.

vance hawkins

[nicosaponi]

Grettings,
I've been gone a while and it seems I've missed out on some lively information
exchange.I'm in utter "AWE" at the amount
of intelligent and insightful people are and
how this forum attracks the like.You guys
are amazing.

Linda,
I have some very
interesting information to share with on my
fathers people,S.C.Croatan.Email me your
address and I'll send it right oyt to you.
Looking forward to febuary.


In Blood
Nicole

------------------

[Linda]

Just sent it.

Arrangements have been made for a song and dance workshop for the 23rd of February. Anyone who would like to attend please contact me ASAP, as the locations of those coming will determine where it's held. It's tentatively set for Greenville, NC, but can be changed to Lawrenceville, VA if that's more accessible for the majority of participants.

[itconani]

linda -
if you are keeping count -
we have two definates and two "id like to go" here in Virginia.
look forward to seeing development.

[vance hawkins]

I wish yall luck with it

don't know if I'll ever have an opportunity to go back east -- but it would be good to se something that hasn't been done in 200 years, rekindled.

vance

[Brenda Collins Dillon]

I don't know how many of you seen the opening
cememony of the Oylimpic Games last night but I thought it was great.
For those that did not see it, the cememony reconized the 5 Tribes of Utah and they did the Stomp Dance. For somebody who has never witnessed anything like this before I was glued to the television. The dancers were all ages and both sex. The little ones were so cute. The chiefs of the 5 tribes took part in the cememony speaking in thier own native tounge. It was good to see that the Native Americans were included in this special event.

Brenda