arrow tab bag

[Tom]

Well I finally recieved a good image from England of the oldest known beaded bag that I know of.
Iam trying to figure out how to up load it here, stay tuned, it is probably Souian, OURS!?: it has 4 arrow head shaped tabs on it.
More later.

[Linda]

I can't be much help this time. I have some kind of adware virus that's preventing me from staying connected to the internet. I know I have set a limit on file size. I usually end up resizing an image and then compressing it. I also crop pictures to the essential, usually head and shoulders.

[lynellarainhawk]

Tom,

I'm looking very foreward to seeing this. Kepp me posted, PLEASE. Lynella.

[Rachel McCraw]

Tom,

I just ran across this while browsing the archives, and it rang a bell. That sounds a lot like something I saw described as a "Tanned buckskin purse embroidered with Marginella nirvosa shells. . . Roanoke, Virginia.. c. 1656. Length, 30 1/2" (77.0 cm). Ashmolean Museum, Oxford, 1686 B370" in Lois Sherr Dubin's North American Indian Jewelry And Adornment. It also has the four arrow-like tabs.

Does that sound similar to the one you got the better image of? This one was, somewhat oddly, described as "Powatan [sic]", but I suppose it possibly could have been traded, if the printed identification wasn't just an outright mistake.

At any rate, I was excited to find a photo of something of the sort from the middle of Tutelo country, so near my home. (And am tempted to try to have a gander at it, and whatever else the Ashmolean has, now that I'm living not so far from Oxford. ;) ) I would be very interested in seeing the bag photo you have, if you can upload it or e-mail it.

[lynellarainhawk]

Ohh, :) yes Tom, an e-mail would do, if you get a chance it would be wonderful. I'm back from Indiana. Love the country, but it's good to be home. Bill is "fine'.;) Lynella.

[Tom]

Hello, yes that's the one, it has been so hard for me these days to get my act together to post what I have, but I will.
I think that this arrow tab bag is common it still occurs on northern Sioux bags etc. One day I'll post is, hopefully very soon, all the best, Tom

[Tom]

Hey Linda you should get 4 images soon, the first is the arrow tab bag, the basket is one that I wove, it's only the outside bottom, and there is 2 northern plains style mirror bags, I'll expalin more later .
Best to All.

[Linda]

Here they are:

http://www.saponitown.com/images/tom-arrowbag.jpg

http://www.saponitown.com/images/tom-basket1.jpg

http://www.saponitown.com/images/tom-beadwork1.jpg

http://www.saponitown.com/images/tom-pouch.jpg

[techteach]

Beautiful, Tom!

Cindy

[Linda]

Yes, please tell us about these items, how they were used and made.

[Tom]

The small basket is made from river cane and is a low form called a fanner or bowl basket, not easy to do and the pattern on the inside is not what you see on the bottom here, commercial dyes and a traditional pattern that I based on the patterns from the clothing posted in "Tom's Family".
The bead work is on smaoked hide and is applique stitch, some old patterns and occasionally some old beads.

[techteach]

I thought I recognized that pattern in the basket. I wanted to say something about it reminding me of the pattern in those family pix but was afraid that I was wrong and would embarrass you.

Cindy

[Linda]

Who cultures/tribes are these patterns from?

[Tom]

The beadwork is fairly generic to the northern plains, the white mirror bag with the green cross' is from anywhere.
The blue bag is more Blood/Piegan/Crow than anywhere else but still a northern plains stlye.
The basket is ofcourse river cane and a southeastern style. The pattern on the inside is much different from the bottom seen here.
I'll post or email some inside images to the forum or privately, thanx for the interest.

[Tom]

just refreshing

[lynellarainhawk]

Tom,

I'm glad you did! You know, I'll have to look, I think I have a photo of some buckskin leggings with the exact same beadwork as the Arrow Tab bag. If I do still have it, I could e-mail it to you. They are totally awsome. :)

[Tom]

Lynella , I'd love to see anything that you can send!

[lynellarainhawk]

Tom,

You got it!:)

[dovelady]

Hi Tom, what was the arrow tab bag used for? And why is it caled an arrow tab bag?

[Tom]

Thanx for the images Lynella got em.
Barb the arrow tab bag is very old from Virginia and was collected around 1640 or so, also it has 4 arrow head tabs, done in a method rarely seen anymore. The bag is folded in half length ways and then hung over a belt, the opening is a cut in the half way point, so it remains closed while suspended.
I think that this style or method of imitating a simalar object was taken out onto the plains by other people and used.
I will try and develope a bag style and make them to show here.
Mens and womens bags were very different but may have been used in many of the same ways.

[dovelady]

Ah thanks Tom. Ok that explains why it looks like a 'miser's bag' the that Europeans wore. They had a slit in the center point and the money was kept in the end parts. It was carried on the belt. They were knitted, or made of various cloths and materials. Some were very decorated and some were very plain.

Eventually they started putting rings on it that would go on either side of the slit so that robbers couldn't put their hands into the pouch parts to steal their money. To access the money they would slide the rings to one side and then enter the pouch through the slit.

They often would put chains on the pouch rings also. The rings would then be slid down the pouch and it was threaded onto the belt with the chain hanging under the belt. Robbers used to grab the pouches and run away with them. The addition of the chain kept that from happening. But the robbers, being clever devils, would grab the pouches, slice the center sections with their knife and make away with the money anyway.

So, it looks to me like this may be a take on those European miser's purses.

I made one out of beadwork netting that was inspired from a vintage one I saw at the Center For The Study of Beadwork.

I don't know how to upload pictures or I'd post it here. It certainly isn't NA in any form of the word, but it turned out really nice.

[dovelady]

Wow. Tom. For some reason, when I first read this thread I missed that you wove the basket. That is really intricate and beautiful!

Did you dye the basket material yourself? Or do you puchase it that way?

Are there images of more of your baskets on the site?

[Tom]

I usually gather all my own materials for the baskets, sometimes I use vegetable dyes and some chemical dyes, so far this is the only basket that i have posted an image of.. and it is the back of a pattern so it's reversed.
There is a huge market for basket patterns so I try and keep mine off of the web.

[dovelady]

I don't blame you tom for keeping your patterns off the web. I have the same thing with my beadwork. Even if you put a copyright notice in the image, they steal your design anyway. I have had that hppane with my beadwork.

Speaking of being on the web. I was looking for something the other day and the google search sent me right back here to Saponitown.

I forget that what we write here isn't private and that it is open for anyone in the whole world to see! I'm used to being on lists that are private and so the pictures go no further than the group. So I'll have to keep that in mind if I ever post any pics.

Hmm. is there a private place here on Saponitown that we could post pictures of things that only members could access? That might be a more 'safe' way to post pictures that we don't want all over the internet yet.

Just a thought.