womens clothing

[Tom]

Hello I thought that starting this thread would help the Girls get going with some ideas for clothing etc. This image link is for the Chitiamcha people of Louisiana, however a simular cut to clothing was found all across the southeast and up into the northeast, I hope this helps. www.nealauction.com/toplots/americanpaintings/0348.html

[Linda]

That's a really beautiful painting. Who did it? The dress is reminiscent of what the women out here are currently doing for regalia -- it's called the southeastern women's dress. There's a story being told that Pura Fe of Ulali dreamt the dress, though when I asked her about it she said that story has been a bit embellished. It's similar to a Cherokee tear dress, which has a skirt of gathered layers, and a ruffled neckline. There's ceremony involved in making the neck opening. I made mine several years ago and will try to get a picture posted.

[Tom]

The image is from Neal Auction in New Orleans;the painter was francois Bernard (French b.1812, active New Orleans,1856-75?)

Portrait of two Chitimacha Indians, oil on panel, signed and dated 1870 sold on October 7, 2000 for $63,250.
This type of an unknown painting is huge news for everone especially the Chitimacha people.
This is what we need when it comes to our folks. Iam not sure if her pendants are shell or silver could be either.! Everything about this painting makes it such a treasure.
I hope that EVERYONE enjoys this !

[Tom]

This painting gives me the impression that she is bare foot for some reason, but if you imagine a nice pair of dark brown center seam moccasins being worn it wouldn't be out of place.
The Chitimacha folks had a very unique moccasin style all of thier own, only one pair exist though.
Some of the other features in this painting is the childs small beaded sash and the lady's silver brooches, being worn as medallions, they are almost clear enough to remake them,- they may also be shell ,but probably spainish silver coins hammered out.
The beads are really neat, the yellow looks to be "white lined yellow"; white heart(lined ) red beads, cobalt blue perhaps the blue replaces the black , for the "red- yellow-white and black". and there's more still !

[Linda]

This being the season to be working on regalia, I thought I'd bring this thread forward.

[Tom]

here's a question for the forum, how many men are interested in a shirt style etc, just for either casual wear or cultural settings pow wows etc, also if your man is not ESD he still may want to wear it "just for you" ladies!

[Tom]

At the top of this thread is a link to a Chitimacha woman and child, exactly how it became attributued to this tribe I don't know , they said that it was the basket, but for me it's still up in the air.
Anyway the shirt style is something that was very commmon across the southeast this one appears to have a small cape attached to it, rather interesting.
The silver pendants can also be worn as earrings .
This could be adapted to the eastern Siouan people, by first restyling the shirt (adding ribbon work or embroidery, beadwork or frills etc) and dress decorated to match the shirt, but also wearing a open lace shawl tyed around the waist, in memory of the small skirts that the original women had worn at contact, if you'd like to add a shawl for shoulder wear a solid cloth shawl could be used; made from velvet etc.

[1_optimistic]

I thought the painting of the dress was similar to the Cherokee Tear Dress too.

Erica

[Barb]

HI Tom..I was looking at the basket. What can you tell us about it? It seems that the sides are done differently than the bottom. Does the bottom look woven or carved? I know it is just a painting, but I was curious.

Barb G

[Linda]

I like that dress the more I see it. It does have details I think would be a bit more becoming than what's commonly worn as southeastern women's cloth regalia down here. i think it's something to consider if we're going to come up with something distinctive in cloth for summer wear.

[dovelady]

Hi Tom and everyone.

Can y'all help me understand what's happening here? Are the members of Saponitown trying to make a 'new' tradition in clothing? Or find examples of the 'old' clothing or?

I haven't been active here enough to understand what the idea is here, and what y'all are trying to accomplish.

Thanks

Barb

[Linda]

Yes, we are considering adopting elements of this outfit to use in making summer regalia. Here's the image:

http://www.saponitown.com/images/chitimatcha-woman.jpg

[dovelady]

OH ok, Thanks :) That's pretty :)

[Tom]

Well the basket base is woven differently from the sides and is a typical work basket from the Louisiana area, older baskets took more time and back then there were no clocks etc.
The womans dress here was a common responce to European materails, the dress shown here was common every where and so in each area there were very small differences such as the overall cut how they were decorated and why, aswell as colors etc, the more images that we have here the more that can be developed.

[Tom]

remember that the first styles of clothing would ahve been a direct result of both worlds coming together and the style would reflect the adaptation of traditional values to a newq amterial and a first contact pressure. see the following link for an example of this...
www.geocites.com/ceh437/Lesson9.html

[Tom]

hello also do a search on Choctaw clothing, styles were shared and things moved around somewhat, mens clothing especially, womans clothing was fairly set, makes sence men did most of the socializing!

[Linda]

There's a large selection of native prints, mostly nice, geometric patterns at an area Wal-Mart. I've been keeping an eye on it, and noticed a bolt on the discounted table today, so I bought it up. As I left with it, I had an idea of using it as if it were a blanket skirt, a simple wrap around kind of thing.

We found some mention that we fringed our garments with feathers. How would that be done? I'm assuming it would be small fluffs or hackles, maybe an inch and a half long, sewn around the edges. Does that sound right?

[Mousini78]

Linda
Some Walmarts also sell an edging made with feathers. I bought some at one in Durham last year. I have not used it yet...have not figured out where it would be appropriate. I think you can also find it at Michael's or fabric shops.

I was also at Walmart in Roxboro yesterday...they have some really nice prints on the shelf. I have also found that the one in Durham has a lot of "Native" looking stuff.

[1_optimistic]

What is the name of the fabric from Wal-mart so we may see what it looks like? I am new to this. Thanks!

Erica:)

[Tom]

This is an over view article, it has good info and some nice ideas, all based on recorded accounts.
www.living-history.net/Fort/FTSEINDIANWOMEN.htm

[Tom]

Also this next thread has a picture of a woman from the Yamacraw people, probably the Yamasee from Georgia , but notice that the style of dress is a precuser to what we are talking about here.
www.uwf.edu/english/Panther-Yates/indians.htm

[Tom]

Okay Girls here's a link that shows what I have been trying to work towards a stly, cut of dress that needs to be considered as a style forthe Eastern Blackfoot woman, it's not pow wow and with some small changes and additions it could be amde very distinct, hair care and earrings etc will be covered on another thread. here's the link www.lenape.org/pages/photos.html
search this ite as there is another lady in a bright red dress that will prove interesting aswell.
Keep in mind the addition of a netted shawl tyed around the waist in front and back like an apron.. center seam moccasins, silver brooches and strands of beads, etc.
Click on museum history at the bottom of the page is Down load the "Welcome to the Lenni Lenape historical society" flyer in this thread is the woamn in the bright red dress.!

[Linda]

Which of the outfits were you talking about? I couldn't find a bright red dress.

And Tom, do you know anything about what technique would be used to make a feathered fringe to a dress? I'm thinking of wrapping a small bunch of hackles together, then suspending them from cord or sinew to the dress. If brass bands were used they'd even tinkle a bit. Do you have any information on how feathers were worked in this way?

[Mousini78]

Linda,
You have to download the PDF file for the flyer at the bottom of the page on the museum history page...it took me three tries to get it to load. On that page there is a picture of two ladies in a red dress and a little girl in a pink dress. You can enlarge the photo to see some of the details, but, I couldn't get a clear picture. The caption says one of the ladies is Teresa Runningdear. It does appear to be a cloth dress with a wide ruffle on the bottom and some trim. Not really what I would call a tear dress, though. Looks like she has on a wide leather belt. Take care, Becky

[Tom]

well this feathered fringe is interesting, all feather work has the ability to either be very well done or rather tacky,. So if it is feather wrapped cord you have a choice of either horizontally adding the feathers or vertically doing so, the horizontal work looks kinda fuzzy and the vertical wrapped coard is very neat looking, and is started at the bottom the horizontal type is "feathered" while be twisted into form.
The latter vertical wrapped cord will have an apearance of quality to it, and it's what I'd go with, you have to tye the ends secure and fairly tight but not stretched because when you are done you don't want it to shrink,.
start at the finished end, or bottom and begin by securing a binding thread to the thong, then start wrapping adding feathers as you go, until you reach the top end. keep the feathers small and if hackles use only the tips and measure each one to the same length, you can create bands etc,
In order to secure the feather into place you may want to add a spoy of glue that is flexable or sew it into place.
for a lot of fringe feathers may hve been just tyed into place, and some of the fringe left bare.
I hope that this helps.!

[Linda]

Sorry, I can't picture what you're saying. Is there a photo of the vertical method you can find?

[Felicia]

Linda - To me looks style similar to yours? What do you think, and has everyone seen picture/image of your cloth dress? :)

[Tom]

Linda there's no written material for instruction on feather work that I know of, and there needs to be one, perhaps I can photograph something as I make it, I am thinking of doing some of this work soon.
I would like to know more about the reference that you mentioned earlier, can you post some of it ?
More later!

[Linda]

It's on here somewhere. Some of the original source material that was posted recently. My brain's not working. It described a woven fabric from the bark we were discussing, that was fringed with feathers.

[Red Metis]

Just wanted to add that in the area of clothing/fabrics, I am studying using natural material dyes. Not just browns, greens, and yellows--some very vibrant and beautiful colors that I thought could only be obtained with synthetic dyes. I'll keep y'all posted on what I learn.

[Spirit]

Okay maybe it's just me but they look like two Indians not wearing traditional dress. The clothes dont fit them to me, are you sure this is traditional dress and they are not wearing caucasians clothing?

[dovelady]

www.lenape.org/pages/photos.html

Hi Tom, for some reason, this link won't work for me. Is it correct?

Thanks

Nevermind. I just went to http://www.lenape.org and the site is under construction.

[Tom]

All that I can suggest is that you type in the web adddress (url) and you may hit it or just do a search on that topic, it's there..

[Linda]

Well, Spirit, it's a bit problematic. What's traditional is all relative. If we go back to the time of Contact, our ladies were wearing miniskirts. Period. No tops. Obviously, can't wear that to a pow wow. Then if you go further forward in time, we have a lot of records of how Cherokee ladies adapted to European influence and came up with cloth dresses. At some point, our ladies certainly went through a similar transition. There are a number of ladies who wear a variation of the Cherokee tear dress which is now identified as southeastern ladies dress. Lots of tiers and ruffles and a ceremony of sorts in the making of it.

Then, there's the recent forensic recreation of a lady's burial near Danville ca. 1620's. She's in a leather dress strikingly similar to what you find out west.

So . . . take you pick. I'm still experimenting and have an idea for a new outfit for summer. Summers are getting hotter all the time. Pow wow etiquette calls for a proper dancer to be covered head to toe, including arms. The lighter the fabric the better. I'm thinking of trying cotton gauze personally, like you find in those gathered skirts from India.

[Tom]

Hello Ladies , well winter is on the way up here and it is now time to take the time and start looking at what you'd like to make and wear, Iam sure that some of the pow wow's in the future will be held in doors.
I'd like to invite anyone to post a link to thier regalia or to upload the images and items for it here.
Since we have so many new members I took the liberty to revive this old thread and will do with more, however current new members are welcome to do the same.

[Red Metis]

Hey Tom! I'm glad you brought this up because I have been doing searches on women's clothing all last week. I meant to post something but with my family getting ill, I didn't have the time. What was decided? I saw the Lenape pictures a while ago but the link doesn't work anymore. Can't remember how the dress looked but I've seen ribbon dresses on other sites. Would our dress be ribbon style or tear dress? What about colors, beadwork, and embroidery on the dress? What about beadwork and jewelry off the dress?

[Tom]

Well it's a time thing, depending on the time 1600-1700 1800, like all styles things change.
I don't know if we can say for sure what style, really my point with rebuilding culture is that by connecting the dots between areas you may be able to see what was going on, MAYBE! but that is taking a liberty and a huge lisence.
You'll have to decide on the style of dress, the colors that have been posted here already I belive ere blue white black etc, you'll need to search that out.
As for embroidery the nieghbouring tribes all did it, so you may take that into consideration if your folks were near other peopleaswell look there too,.
jewellery, well my Grandmother wore simple strands of beads and ofcourse with that you could add shell or silver items, look at the posted picture in this thread of the Chitimacha Girl from Louisiana, a pretty common occurance around the world, you may want to research some of the nc archaeology for a more precise answer, aswell look at the Occaneechi Town digs and Kerr lake etc.
There's a good deal out there to consider and much has been posted on this forum so do a search here and take it from there. I hope that this helps.
Have a great day, Tom.