"color vision"

[Tom]

Here's something that I found on the web at www.ibiblio.org/dig/html/report41b.html.
The one quote that is very interesting is as follows, keep in mind that Tutelo necklace.
" Piedmont inhabitants were no less selective in the European wares they did purchase. To the dismay, the colonial trader learned that Indians would not accept every item he happened to have on hand. Dark blue cloth sold best, as did larger hoes and smaller glass beads. But not just any beads:villages west of Virginia wanted blue and red ones, those to the south, black and white (Trinling 1997:30,40,57,64; Ewan and Ewan 1971:385). Why? The colonists either did not know or did not say. He knew only that such idiosyncrasies could spell the difference between profit and loss.
Something to digest!
ps this also was the case with cloth colours aswell, really interesting and some palce to start when making choices for your next dress or long shirt.

[Tom]

For those of you folks that live in this area can you tell me where the Tutelo and Sixsapaha were? Sometimes I think that we need a map for times like this, (I hate brain farts).HAHA

[lynellarainhawk]

Tom,

Yes maps would be a good thing! No one has bigger brain farts than I do! I really want to know more about the beads. And I know my eyes scanned an index somewhere and saw Adena in the last day or two. So, I'm a little sickly today, I'll use this time to have another go at it.

The whole basket idea is excellent. basketry is one thing I've never attempted. I do dreamcatchers of all sizes, mandellas, etc. ceremonial fans, poutches, soap and candles. I would love to know more about our traditional designs. I just do whatever pops into my head. Well, Love & Light, Lynella.

[Linda]

It's hard to be precise on locations, since people moved around a great deal. The early explorers found the Tutelo living near present Roanoke, Virginia. That's about where the Blue Ridge Mountains get going full size. The Sissipaha were in the Haw River Valley, which is in NC, west of present Greensboro. When was this account regarding the traders written?

[Forest]

Actually, the Haw River is East of Greensboro. The village of Saxapahaw, which many believe to be the same word as Sissapaha, is in southern Alamance county, on the banks of the Haw River. I live about 6 miles from there.

[Linda]

I didn't realize it was that close. Yes, it's on the banks of the Haw River. I did visit it once after a trip to Pleasant Grove, I just drove south on a country road. It was the summer of a drought, the riverbed was exposed and looked very eary.

[lynellarainhawk]

Forest Hazel,

Hi! Hey, I was wondering, could you tell me about the country side where you live? You know, the beauty of it so I can kind of see it in my mind's eye. I have a feeling it must be quite beautiful and who knows if I'll ever REALLY get to see it. You don't have to rush, just when you have time. I would really love it. Thank you so much, Lynella.;)

[cikala-mato]

Tom;
In reply to a earlier post of yours. Colors are very important and a base of teachings in our culture. In Lakota nations the Colors are Black (Dark Blue when black can not be found) Represets the West, White represents North, Yellow the East and Red the South. The four directions are a corner stone of Grandfathers teachings. The colors are respected and used in Ceremonies and art. From Medicine wheels, to bead work these colors represent our people and our history.
Cikala-Mato

W'owahwa (Peace) :cool:

[lynellarainhawk]

Anhe!

Would that be something like (and please excuse me if I'm wrong or nosy--I don't mean to be, Honest.) Would that be akin to Baby-Bear or, Bear's Baby? Please let me know if you get the chance.

I'm not real super good with Lakota but I've had some help from a good friend and a lot of studying. I've forgotten how Esther wrote the name I have gotten, I think it's something like
Minne Ahtah C'etan, "Rain Hawk" or would it be C'etan Minne Ahtah? When I sign it on art work I just put RainHawk as one word with both syllables capitalized. My mother always got angry with me cause I had to be different from everyone else!

I would greatly respect your input on this. This is so cool! Love & Light, Lynella. :D

[cikala-mato]

RainHawk; (Ma'gaju-Cek'an)

Greetings, and I am happy to meet you. As best as I can tell and decifer above would be a direct translation. However as I am not totally fluent, there could very well be other meanings that come into play.
Cikala = Little, Baby, small
Mato = Bear
Mato Hoto = Grizzly Bear
I there by call my name Little-Bear

Here is my interpatation for you of Rain-Hawk
Rain = Ma'gaju
to rain (i.e. it's going to rain) = maga'ju
rain on = amagaju
rained on = ah'inhan

But as I said there are many verations of words and the words change in the context of which they are used as well as how is using them. A man would say a word differently than a woman. Example a man ending a sentence with a Ha and a woman ending with a ho.
I cannot claim to know everything in Lakota and frankly much is translated by words that are close to what the speaker thinks the meaning of the sentence of word.
I will talk with a Lakota woman I know here and give her your name as you have written it for me and see what her translation is and see if I am off base. (She also calls me Baby-Bear, But translates Cikala-Mato to: Son of Bear).
I hope that this has not confused you, (I am) and I will get back to you this week with what I learn.

tehm'unga interj eya (fly well)
tehm'unga wast'e

Cikala-Mato

[lynellarainhawk]

Cikala-Mato,

Lelah wah st'e. Pilamaya ahlo.

You haven't confused me. On the contrary, this is awsome! Really, I do thank you with all my heart and look very foreward to hearing from you again. Bless you, Ma'gaju-Cek'an.;)

[cikala-mato]

Ma'gaju-Cek'an;

News, Here is what Bear Cub tells me of your name as you first gave it to me.
Minne ( Lakota =Mni) = Water
Ahtah = Father
C'etan = Hawk

By that I get Water Father Hawk, Or Father Water Hawk, Or a spiritual name of Rain Hawk. So If you take that Rain is the Father water, as it give's back to Mother Earth. Than I would guess that it seem's natural.
Like I said earlier, Not everything in Lakota can be written into the English as a direct translation. As I translated your name to Magaju Cekan, the english who had a basic lakota dictionary could translate the name. Provided they could understand the nasail and non nasail tones and the workings of the language to form sentences. Like other forgein sentences, often the words may seem backwards in english. An example would be German, Tag vegates. or Good Day, but the direct translation would be Day, very good. I think the same is the rule for Lakota. Often you must know the meaning of the speaker before you could understand the words that they are speaking. Older Lakota seem to talk in native tongue in old ways and direct translations would fit into the group of words spoken in second meaning's.
Good luck to you in learning the language, It is very difficult for me and even harder before I had Bear Cub to help me. It's one thing to read the words, It's totally another to know the meanings. A simple word Ho, meaning skin or rolled with pressed breath H'o meaning to bury someone. Sure alot of differance between the two, yet to the unaware reader they could be the same work.

w'owahwa

Cik'ala-Mat'o
:p

[lynellarainhawk]

Cik'ala-Mat'o

Oh, thank you so very much! I miss my friends Esther and Andy so-so much. Esther was teaching me a lot of different things. They are a couple of very special people. Her health was going down hill fast. The Dr. told her she had to move down out of the altitude. She refused to leave Colorado. Having family on the Western Slope, they moved there about 4 maybe 5 years ago. I really miss them a lot.

But you have cleared up a few loose ends for me. I know I have a great long way to go, but I have time! We always have time for things we love and if not, we just find ways to make the time. Your lesson has been a good one and a most appreciated one. Thank You Again. Love & Light, Ma'gaju-Cek'an.:D :D :D

[lynellarainhawk]

Hey! Have you learned anything more about the colors? I've finally convinced Glenn to take me to Denver to the Meuseums. Now all I gotta' do is pin him down on a day! I hope I can find something down there on any of this. You and the others are all doing such great work. I just want to thank you for that. Love & Light, Lynella.;)

[Tom]

Hello just that the white in wampum is for purety and blue is for death etc.
This is a huge subject and it's open to individual translation so it changes from area to area and straight down to the individual, what we see others don't and visa versa.

[lynellarainhawk]

TOM,

You see? I didn't know that! Thank you so much! Had any chokecherry jelly yet this year? I didn't! I got busy and missed them, again. If I find some somewhere, I'll by some. Love & Light, Lynella.:) :)

[Linda]

Cikala-mato, can you tell me Lakota for "waterfall?"

My friend dreamed someone telling her this word and the translation in Tutelo, but she woke up only remembering "moni" as the first part of the word. Maybe the Lakota will also be similar and jog her memory.

[lynellarainhawk]

Tom,

The meuseums were a bust! I am so dissapointed. First we went to the history and science meuseum and they had some big la-tee-da about ancient Egypt. The place was packed with people neither one of us wanted to stand there in line forever. We desided we'd go beck there on a Tuesday or something. Then we went to the Art Meuseum, they had a lot of really beautifull stuff, but there was absolutely nothing I was hoping to find. The only Southeastern Indian items they had were mostly Cherokee. So, so much for that! I'm bummered, but hey, it might snow! Love & Light, Lynella.;)

[lynellarainhawk]

Originally posted by cikala-mato
Ma'gaju-Cek'an;

News, Here is what Bear Cub tells me of your name as you first gave it to me.
Minne ( Lakota =Mni) = Water
Ahtah = Father
C'etan = Hawk

By that I get Water Father Hawk, Or Father Water Hawk, Or a spiritual name of Rain Hawk. So If you take that Rain is the Father water, as it give's back to Mother Earth. Than I would guess that it seem's natural.
Like I said earlier, Not everything in Lakota can be written into the English as a direct translation. As I translated your name to Magaju Cekan, the english who had a basic lakota dictionary could translate the name. Provided they could understand the nasail and non nasail tones and the workings of the language to form sentences. Like other forgein sentences, often the words may seem backwards in english. An example would be German, Tag vegates. or Good Day, but the direct translation would be Day, very good. I think the same is the rule for Lakota. Often you must know the meaning of the speaker before you could understand the words that they are speaking. Older Lakota seem to talk in native tongue in old ways and direct translations would fit into the group of words spoken in second meaning's.
Good luck to you in learning the language, It is very difficult for me and even harder before I had Bear Cub to help me. It's one thing to read the words, It's totally another to know the meanings. A simple word Ho, meaning skin or rolled with pressed breath H'o meaning to bury someone. Sure alot of differance between the two, yet to the unaware reader they could be the same work.

w'owahwa

Cik'ala-Mat'o
:p

[Linda]

Cikalo-Mato, thanks for your input. It always blows me away to hear Lakota words, then find their equivalent in Tutelo. Quite often it's exactly equivalent.

At'e = father in Tutelo
moni = water in Tutelo
pila huc = thank you in Tutelo
a'ti = house

I wish I had my Tutelo Dictionary unpacked yet. (I just moved.) I'd look up some more words.

Tutelo is the only one of the VA/NC Siouan tribes whose words were written down before the language died, though there are those who say it's not so dead. A friend told me there were two elderly sisters in eastern Canada who still speak it. Then I heard the story corroborated from an entirely different source -- a linguist, which I would presume to mean linguists are working with these ladies to preserve more of the language.

If you'd like I can email you some pictures of a reconstructed dress from a 1620's VA Siouan lady. It's amazing how similar it is to western Sioux dress. Some say we all are separated by not more than a millenia. That's not very long at all, when you think about it. That would mean that right many of the elements of culture of our supposedly long-extinct culture are not nearly as unknowable as we thought.

We're working on it!

[collins]

Was the word Moni or Mona? Mona Hena is Mother Earth.

[Linda]

It was "moni."

What language is that phrase from?

[collins]

Tutelo-Saponi

[collins]

I had a question about Mona Hena.
I went to reference my use of Mona Hena as Mother Earth and in the Tutelo-Saponi dictionary I found -hi:na: , -ho:ni: which is mother and I found ama: which is Earth.
I then remembered a conversation I had with Richard Haithcock about the opening words in Saponi that he gave in his book "The Mosopelea Ofo Aganatchi The Ohio River Valley Sioux And The Siouan Monacan Mannahoac And The Siouan Piedmont Catawba Of The Virginia Carolina Piedmont" published April 20,1999. On page 1 the words Mona Hena is used. I was asking him about the use of Ama Hina as Mother Earth from the dictionary and he corrected me that it was Mona Hena. I am not sure what source he was utilizing but I was told that he goes to the Tutelo alot. That was way back in 1999 that I asked him about it.

Can you tell me if this is correct?

[Linda]

If you mean the descendants of the Tutelo adopted by the Cayuga, I don't believe any of them speak Tutelo. I heard a report that there were two elderly sisters who still spoke it, and presumably they are being studied. My language books are still packed away, so I can't tell you any more than I have.

[sammarroq]

Here's something that I found on the web at www.ibiblio.org/dig/html/report41b.html.
The one quote that is very interesting is as follows, keep in mind that Tutelo necklace.
" Piedmont inhabitants were no less selective in the European wares they did purchase. To the dismay, the colonial trader learned that Indians would not accept every item he happened to have on hand. Dark blue cloth sold best, as did larger hoes and smaller glass beads. But not just any beads:villages west of Virginia wanted blue and red ones, those to the south, black and white (Trinling 1997:30,40,57,64; Ewan and Ewan 1971:385). Why? The colonists either did not know or did not say. He knew only that such idiosyncrasies could spell the difference between profit and loss.
Something to digest!
ps this also was the case with cloth colours aswell, really interesting and some palce to start when making choices for your next dress or long shirt.

Came across one of Tom's posts (miss you Tom:()...thought this was very interesting.