Blackfoot Honting Camp

[Blackfoot5]

A mile fromI live there are several springs that run all the time- wet or dry. On a flat area above the small stream where the springs empty the Native Americans (Blackfoot) had bark houses.The whites burned these and built a log house. In later years the Blackfoot would still travel through but would set up temporary shelters. There were supposed to be no permenant Native American villages in this area so I wonder if these bark houses were just a hunting camp! I also wonder what the temporary shelters were called! (wickeyups--wigwams?)These events occured about 1800. The traveling through was after 1815 as that was when my white family came to the area and they were the ones who told of the passing through of the Natives. BEAR

[Linda]

This is interesting. I imagine Rick Haithcock would like to hear about this, he's done a lot of research on Saponi-related tribes in southern Ohio very early on. Where did you hear the name Blackfoot used? Do you have an idea what the source is for that name, as in, who originally said it? Also, what's the source for this story?

[Blackfoot5]

I just got back from a week in the piney woods of southern Ky. so my mind is fuzzy. Several family members and a lot of other people were there; we had a very good time!! As to your questions; I have heard the name Blackfoot from many people many times including family members and a lot of other people. A lot of people in this area will say Grandma was Indian a lot say Blackfoot. The story was told to me by a man whose ancesters were among the white men who burned the bark houses. I wouln't mind meeting Mr. Haithcock and if I was satisfied as to his motives I would tell him what little I know and show him places. He could Email me at my address. As to when the name Blackfoot was first said this probably goes back long before my time. Almost 70 years! BEAR

[Tom]

Hey Bear, Iam happy to see you here once agin and look forward to hearing what you'd like to share.
I is true that all of us here all have a piece of a much larger puzzle, together we complete the picture.
All the best Tom

[SouthPaw]

Hello Linda and everyone.

My I ask if you have ever heard of Blackfoot Cherokee? My grandfather told me that one of his great grandparents was Cherokee Indian of the Blackfoot clan. Is there a group known by that name? I can only find Montana and Canada when looking for references to Blackfoot and my family are all from KY, WV/VA and OH. My papaw's last name is HOBBS and his mother was BEVANS. Her mother was a PACK and her grandmother was DEBORD. I list women because Papaw Hobbs said the Blackfoot Indian was female. Papaw's paternal female lines may include Sadler, Estep and Robinson.

Look forward to hearing from you.

[Tom]

Hey South Paw, well yes Blackfoot Cherokee is our families oral history and refers to the Sixsapaha, apart of the southern division of the eastern Souians, if you look around this site you'll find some very lengthy post re. that topic.
I can tell you that I believe that the Blackfoot families were just over the mountains in NC from the Cherokee people, very ancient relatives and no doubt good friends to be so close for so long.
After the small tribes amalgamated along the Va boreder they out migrated into other tribal areas and into their ancient haunts along the Ohio river.
My direct ancestors moved to TN and married amongst the folks they found there, I'm sure other families w/ simalar origins.
The first wave of settlers into the NEW West (TN) etc were the folks of mixed heritage, so I hope that this helps a bit.
Tom

[SouthPaw]

Hi Tom, thanks so much for responding and yes, it is very helpful. The gist of my question is whether or not my Papaw had a correct understanding of the Tribe and Clan part. If he was remembering correctly, then that would mean that I could look to eastern Cherokee for one of his great grandparents.

I have never found such a concentration of information anywhere and I love this forum and the Saponi site. I'm still learning and really appreciate your help.

[vance hawkins]

howdy --

I have done some research, especially in past year or so on the Indian Wars of that area, wrt the Chickamauga Cherokee, and those with whom they interacted.

In the 1750s there was the French and Indian War and later there were wars from 1774 to 1783 during the American Revolution. There was peace for a few years and the wars broke out again from about 1785 or 6 until final peace was established in 1794 with Indian defeat at Fallen Timbers. Most Indian peoples lived on the Scioto River in Ohio and nearby Indian people did have hunting cabins that they used seasonally. Someone did research who used to post here (Bess I think it was) ajnd she spoke in a coiuple of emials of Blackfoot with the Northern Confederacy of Indians (Miami, Shawnee, Kickapoo and others) but I don't remember if she mentioned the source of that material or not. It might be in the archives somewhere.

I have heard of Bevans and Hobbs both. I think some poster here a while back was a "Hobbs" frm NC who went iinto Tn if my memory is correct -- was that George Hoover, or someone who posted about the same time I left the boards a few months back, about the same time he was posting a lot anyhow? I don't recall if it was George or not, he did provide great information on maps about Indians in Ohio. If you go to the top of the "Forum" and to the right see a link to "search" I suggest you go there and search for Hobbs. I believe there are Bevans were descended from people in S Ky who probably have Indian blood. Caution -- there is a lot of history online about these people that is not true. I have searched and search for any "Cornblossom", and "Tuckahoe" as a "son and a daughter" of Doublehead, and I have to conclude that all appears to be "fictitious history" not founded in historic fact. I believe these people are probably of mixed heritage, but that heritage is NOT as portrayed on many web sites. All that can be done is guess and search more to discover who these mixed-heritage people really were.

As for "Blackfoot Cherokee" -- the Cherokee people have never heard of this. But there are a lot of people with this family legend. I think (and I might be wrong) that it speaks of mixed Anglo/Cherokee families that left the Cherokee Nation and intermattied with other mixed bloods both emigrated to the same regions at about the same time. Cherokee may have gone Norht to Ky from SE Tn and other groups of non-Cherokee mixed-bloods crossed the mountains to Ky and S Ohio. I think this mixing occurred from 1774 with the Henderson land sale when Whites with "friendly Indians" moved onto uninhabited traditional Cherokee/Shawnee Hunting Grounds. For 20 years there was war off and on between Indians and the Whites, but after peace in 1794 or 5 there was a chance for more intermarriage, especially for any Cherokee who left the Cherokee Nation which was further south. But probably the largest intermarriage might have occurred about the time of the Removal, when government policy was "assimilation" (Reservation Rolls 1818) or "removal" (Emigration Rolls of 1818). Emigration Rolls show people leaving the Cherokee Nation up until 1834 or 5 and that migration continued up until final removal in 1838 and 1839.

This is what "appears to have happened" that can be traced through documentation of the Cherokee and records of families who emigated out of the Virginias and Carolinas who might be of mixed heritage. And it is also speculation, but speculation based on actual evidence.

There is no "Blackfoot Clan" of the Cherokee. I think early Scots-Irish may have used the word "Clan" to denote family, like the "McClain Clan" or something like that. In this sense, the term "Blackfoot Clan" might have meant Cherokee who married into the Eastern Blackfoot". Cherokee have 7 clans -- deer, wild potato, bird, wolf, paint, blue, Longhair :).

vance

[SouthPaw]

Thanks Vance, I appreciate the sharing of your research.

I have yet to meet anyone who would accuse my Papaw Hobbs of stretching the truth, much less of out right lying, so I am thinking he was either misinformed or maybe even applied those terms himself after learning there were clans associated with tribes. He had two names or designations to work with (Blackfoot and Cherokee) and maybe it just made sense to him.
Do you think there is any signifcance to the order in which Papaw Hobbs put these names? He told me his great grandmother was Cherokee Indian and he added the "of the Blackfoot clan" part as though that information denoted something. Neither name seemed more important than the other, but both were very important to him. I'm pretty sure Papaw didn't know it, but now I'm thinking she was both, not one as he put it, if that makes sense.

Looks like I have some serious studying to do. Thanks again Vance and Tom. I'll use the search button and see what's been posted.

[vance hawkins]

SouthPaw,

I didn't mean to accuse anyone, please don't take it that way. That was not my intent at all. I too have ancestors that I am trying to figure out, who have Cherokee connections to these Eastern Blackfoot folks. I am in the same boat you are in, trying to figure out who my ancestors were, exactly. That is one of the reasons I chose to reply to your post. :)

I could easily envision a Scotsman saying "My ancestor was Scots/Cherokee of the McDaniel Clan" or something like that and all it would mean was they were mixed blood Scottish and Cherokee, with the patriarichal Scottish line being surname bein' McDaniel. Or someone might say, "boy, those Blevinses are clannish" meaning they stuck together. Point is they were usin the word "clan" as a Scotsman would, and that is different than what a Cherokee would use the word for -- meant something other that what the Cherokee mean when they speak of this clan or that clan, which is a matrilineal line. To ensure the people mixed they couldn't marry inside the same clan, so that the children of every male are of a different clan than their father. Or maybe it is something that has been lost through the generations.

I have come to find incongruities are places I stop and ponder over. Maybe an Eastern Blackfeet aka mixed blood-Saponi ancestor married a mixed-blood Cherokee . . . you know your ancestors far better than I ever will, and what they might have meant.

you asked --

Do you think there is any signifcance to the order in which Papaw Hobbs put these names?

reply --

I don't know.

But I believe you ought to try and decypher it just like Sherlock Holmes would -- uncover everything, even those things that appear to be taking you in the wrong direction -- don't ignore or forsake them, because that will be the only way to get at the truth that will vindicate the family stories. Takin' shortcuts will leave you in eddys and tidepools that don't go anywhere more often than not.

I have a copy of Guion Miller Rolls -- there are about 20 Blevins on it (accepted). There must be 100 or more on the rejected rolls. What was the name of your Blevins and Hobbs ancestors that might have been alive and in their prime 100 years ago when these rolls were created? Please include their brothers and sisters as sometimes not every family member tried to sign up. Also give location where they lived at that time. This might not lead anywhere, but it needs to be verified or eliminated. There are about 10 Hobbs (accepted). There are 2 Hobbs rejected. Remember to be rejected all you had to do was not be living in the 14 counties of NE Ok. These rolls were originally to be used to help people receive 160 acres of land in Ok, and why give land "here" to people who were not living here? I think that was part of the thinking.

vance

[SouthPaw]

Oh Boy, Vance! I am soooo sorry about the poor choice of words when trying to describe my Papaw Hobbs. I think that expression may be perculiar to this area, or maybe just my family..LOL. We say such things as that concerning folks who have never been "accused" of working too hard, or "accused" of being nice or mean (whichever the case may be), etc.

I'll be back on later to to get to the rest of your post, but I needed to address this part ASAP, so you'd know I really didn't think you had accused my Papaw of being a liar.

I have yet to find anyone as helpful as you and I sure don't want to lose ya now!

Please forgive me for forgetting we are not speaking face to face and you couldn't possibly have known that is just the way we talk.

Thanks again!

[techteach]

Southpaw,
My gggrandmother was Blackfoot Cherokee from western Pennsylvania, born in 1815. A distant cousin, Deb, who posts on this forum, has related ggggrandparents and has the same story and the same locations as my ancestors (Our ggg-something grandmothers said they were Blackfoot and Cherokee and married brothers before coming together to Iowa to join family who had previously come there via a stint in Ohio and were reported to be mixed or full.) We do not know the significance of the Blackfoot name, except the family followed the same paths as the Saponi did. Parts of the family were in PA prior to the Revolutionary War. Some were further west in PA.

Techteach

[SouthPaw]

Hello Techteach, Thanks for responding to my Blackfoot questions. I'm still working on a connection to PA, but have not documented my direct line there yet.

Vance, I tried to post a couple times but I kept getting logged out. Hope this time it works.


For my Hobbs line I have James Hobbs born in VA abt. 1800.

James son Arthur Hobbs born abt. 1835 m. Margaret Olbert (maiden name may have been Richards)

Arthur and Margaret Hobbs had Arthur Emory Hobbs 1891 and he married Mary Susan Bevans.

Mary Susan Bevans was daughter of John Bevans and Lucy Jo Pack. John Bevans was born 1868 in Lawrence Co., KY and Lucy Jo Pack was born 1870 in Lawrence Co., KY.

I do not know John Bevans parents, but it is looking like his father may have been named James Bevans.

Lucy Jo Pack was daughter of William Pack and Mary or Margaret Debord.

Hope this helps identify possible ancestors on the Miller Rolls you have.

Thanks again for offering to look them up.